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Thread: Was the N64 strategy the best way for Sega to return to the market? (Hypothetically)

  1. #31
    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    nintendo was just doing as it did with Super nes coming in later, bringing cheap hardware and in some parts very strong, see a multiplayer Mario Kart would not be possible without this power
    The N64's hardware design was certainly not smart, but it wasn't cheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    Still not sure how Nintendo getting trounced by Sony shows that Nintendo was right. Nintendo releasing the N64 two years after the PlayStation allowed Sony to firmly establish itself in the market and court all of the 3rd parties.

    The N64 had a lower manufacture cost simply because it did not include a CD-ROM drive (a $50-$100 cost, depending on the year in question). In turn, N64 games cost $60-$70 at launch compared to the PlayStation's <$50. And 3rd parties were very turned off by the lack of CD-ROM drive. So even though the N64 had a low manufacture cost, the ultimate market share cost was much higher.

    From the NES to the Game Cube, Nintendo's market share continuously plummeted. They did not respond well to competition first from Sega, and then from Sony. They did well in the handheld market, and the Wii was a positive (although hardware sales are deceptive here since as I recall software sales were weak).

    If you're looking for a model of what Sega should have done, then the answer is obviously SONY. But then, they wouldn't have been Sega, so what's the point.
    Wii sold about 900 million pieces of software. It wasn't weak but it was weaker than Xbox 360 which had higher software sold with approx 15-20 milllion less consoles sold. Wii's attach rate was something like 5.5 and 360 was over 8 games. PS3 came in 3rd.



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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua Hunter View Post
    They probably have more cash at hand even than Playstation and Xbox departments lol.
    But you don't need that kind of ludicrous money to launch a console though, remember that Sega with all it's economic troubles after the 32bit era, achieved to launch the Dreamcast, organize the best internal teams setup ever in the industry (something that even Nintendo with all its talents still can't achieve) and produce some of the best games aver made, basically just using crumbs, if it wasn't for the PS2 craze it would have been a very succesful console.
    Yeah, Nintendo had billions in actual cash reserves after the NES, never mind the SNES and Gameboy. You did and do need ludicrous amounts of money to launch a console in the modern age, it cost SEGA over half a billion dollars to develop and launch the DC in the main markets. I've read that SONY along put over a billion into the development of the Cell and also over $500 million on the PS or that it cost MS over one and half billion dollars to develop the GPU of the One.

    To me SEGA biggest cock-up on the 32bit was making 2 rival consoles itself That split SEGA's already limited cash funds, PR spends, development support, game support, while it's real rivals just had a single console to market, develope for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    You did and do need ludicrous amounts of money to launch a console in the modern age, it cost SEGA over half a billion dollars to develop and launch the DC in the main markets. I've read that SONY along put over a billion into the development of the Cell and also over $500 million on the PS or that it cost MS over one and half billion dollars to develop the GPU of the One.
    There are many myths about of production costs, is currently significantly cheaper, Sega spent about 800k on the Dreamcast project, this project includes hardware development, creation of the first games and marketing. updating inflation, that would give us about 1.2 billion today. What makes projects more expensive is marketing that accounts for most of the amount, added to a strategy like the one I quote in this thread, is impossible to flop in any analysis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    The N64's hardware design was certainly not smart, but it wasn't cheap.
    so give an example of better hardware designed for such a low price, my comment is not the nonsense, N64 and GCN are the cheapest video games by the power they offered.
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 10-13-2019 at 10:51 AM.

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Donít you mean $1.2 million?
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Donít you mean $1.2 million?
    the calculation is correct, adjusting 800kk from 1997 to the current inflation, $ 1.2 billion. Being in financial troubles they made the Dreamcast, a Sega's N64 for 2021 would be amazing. would at least beat Project Scarlett relatively easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    There are many myths about of production costs, is currently significantly cheaper, Sega spent about 800k on the Dreamcast project, this project includes hardware development, creation of the first games and marketing. updating inflation, that would give us about 1.2 billion today. What makes projects more expensive is marketing that accounts for most of the amount, added to a strategy like the one I quote in this thread, is impossible to flop in any analysis.
    Oh no... Its no myth just the facts when EDGE asked Shochiro Irimajiri the costs of the DC he said


    Hardware development = $80 million USA dollars

    Software development = $200 million USA dollars

    Marketing = $300 million USA dollars

    All that money splashed by SEGA in May 1998

    so give an example of better hardware designed for such a low price
    The N64 hardware wasn't cheap. In fact, weren't Nintendo going to take SGI to court over the cost of the chipset
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Oh no... Its no myth just the facts when EDGE asked Shochiro Irimajiri the costs of the DC he said


    Hardware development = $80 million USA dollars

    Software development = $200 million USA dollars

    Marketing = $300 million USA dollars

    All that money splashed by SEGA in May 1998

    you're right, I was wrong, I added the 580kk of the project with the 300kk of marketing, when in fact everything is already included. being less, makes things more fun IMO.

    the part of the myth to which I referred was not about Dreamcast, It's about the (supposed) high production costs of today., I reject them because the engines are simpler, the internet is widespread in the main consumer markets, if there are obstacles there are certainly others we don't know. This helps us understand the other user's views that said that since Microsoft joined, no other company risked, there may be a lobby.


    source: https://www.ign.com/articles/1998/08...hiro-irimajiri
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 10-13-2019 at 01:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    the part of the myth to which I referred was not about Dreamcast, It's about the (supposed) high production costs of today., I reject them because the engines are simpler, the internet is widespread in the main consumer markets, if there are obstacles there are certainly others we don't know. This helps us understand the other user's views that said that since Microsoft joined, no other company risked, there may be a lobby.
    Well $80 million on just hardware development alone is very high never mind back in 1988 and more so when the CPU and CPU were pretty much off the shelf parts. I don't agree engines or the internet is at all simpler or even cheaper. The cost of running hundreds of dedicated servers is costly and just look at the size of the teams making most of the AAA games these days, even for Nintendo. It took Nintendo over 4 years and staff on over 300 people to make Zelda BOTW, the amount of dosh that SONY, Ubisoft, MS throw to a project is staggering these days.
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    Slightly off-topic and random thought. Assuming every N64 cart is 64MB. Every single N64 game ever made could fit on a Blu ray disc of 25GB. It also could fit on a Switch 32GB cart. Not taking into account upgrading them to HD resolutions.


    As for R&D costs. Wii U was nearly $400 million and is less powerful than the tablet Nintendo is currently selling. I'm sure Switch is cheaper since it uses an off the shelf Nvidia Tegra chipset. PS5 and Next Xbox are using Ryzen 2 and will be 4K native. SSD's and such. I will assume they will have 24GB of insanely fast ram. I can't imagine that being cheap at all. Sure less custom parts but those are top of the line chips. PS4 and Xbox One didn't use top of the line. They used old CPU's and a laptop GPU. PS4 was the only that went the extra mile with it's ram.
    Last edited by SegataS; 10-13-2019 at 02:43 PM.



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  11. #41
    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    so give an example of better hardware designed for such a low price, my comment is not the nonsense, N64 and GCN are the cheapest video games by the power they offered.
    I don't understand your question. I can't because Nintendo sold the N64 for a very low price while the chipset was expensive not to mention outsourced to SGI. Unfortunately, Nintendo is not a chipset engineering firm, which led to all kinds of bottlenecks for the fancy SGI-based hardware such as slow RAM, no DMA, etc.

    The N64 could've been great but was bottlenecked by spending all the money on the graphics chipset. It's like a car with a powerful engine but a weak transmission. In fact, development chief Genyo Takeda said this about the N64:

    "When we made Nintendo 64, we thought it was logical that if you want to make advanced games, it becomes technically more difficult. We were wrong. We now understand it's the cruising speed that matters, not the momentary flash of peak power."
    Well said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    the calculation is correct, adjusting 800kk from 1997 to the current inflation, $ 1.2 billion. Being in financial troubles they made the Dreamcast, a Sega's N64 for 2021 would be amazing. would at least beat Project Scarlett relatively easily.
    No, it's a little over $1.2 million. Sega spent nearly $100 million on marketing the DC in North America alone.


    http://www.in2013dollars.com/1997-do...?amount=800000

    In other words, $800,000 in 1997 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $1,251,622.85 in 2018, a difference of $451,622.85 over 21 years.
    $800,000 divided by 1,251,622 equals a 63% inflation increase.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  13. #43
    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
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    I not only want Sega to make a big comeback but I want them to start manufacturing blue hats with "Making Video Gaming Great Again" written on them. Then we can launch random attacks on Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo staff while shouting "This is Sega country, bitch!"

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    Nah. It should say make SEGA great again.



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    Master of Shinobi Mega Drive Bowlsey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Nah. It should say make SEGA great again.
    Somebody needs to make those baseball caps. We'd all wear them and attend mass blue rallies where we'll all chant "Se-ga! Se-ga! Nintendon't! Nintendon't! Genesis does! Genesis does!"

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