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Thread: A 6th gen console with specs lower than the Dreamcast's

  1. #61
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    I donít think that the 360 used DDR3. Sony started replacing XDR RAM with DDR3 in the later models.

    *Edit*

    *360 had 512MB of unified GDDR3 RAM @700 MHz. Itís pretty much DDR2 speed.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360
    Last edited by gamevet; 11-10-2019 at 10:46 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  2. #62
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    Am I remembering this wrong but 360 was better about handling more open environments? I don't mean programming the hardware itself. Like it was easier to have a larger open-world game on 360 than PS3. Not saying because of power necessarily but how it was structured.

    Don't forget 360 had the 10MB Embedded ram.



    Life!? ... What console is that on?

  3. #63
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    It was about memory management. Oblivion was optimized for PS3 and had a longer draw distance. Once developers started making the PS3 the lead platform, the PS3 started getting most of the better versions of games.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  4. #64
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Heres some posts I've been planning to reply to for awhile

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    Oh, that's good!
    Yes, stay tuned

    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Starting to become convinced this is an act.
    Hes bringing back the "PS2 is more powerful than GameCube" mindset. No point in debating as we won't be able to convince him anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Honestly, I think Choas Field, Ikaruga look better. I don't think you're being fair at all with Trizeal that after all was the work of one member of staff trying his best to keep his company going. Like I said there are many games that push more polygons than the likes of Virtual Stiker or Code Veronica on the DC, but to me VS is most prob the best looking DC sports game and CV just overall the best looking DC game.

    It's not just about out and out polygons, its also about the quality of the texture mapping, lighting and various effects. Hence why to me and still to this day I think Virtual ON II is still one of the best looking DC games
    None of those games you mentioned are slouches in polycounts. Code Veronica has higher polycounts than GTA III, which you would think the games wouldn't even be able to compare as GTA III was an insanely huge blockbuster game.

    TA you probably think the second stage in Ikaruga looks good with all the buildings right? That stage runs at a constant 1.8-2.1 million PPS.


    Heres the reality. A game running at 1 million PPS could end up looking better than a game running at 2.5 million PPS, but a game running at 500,000 PPS will usually never look better than a game running at 2.5 million PPS.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    I donít think that the 360 used DDR3. Sony started replacing XDR RAM with DDR3 in the later models.
    I can't find anything about that, Wikipedia does mention the latest PS3s started using 128MBx2 XDR RAM instead of 64MBx4 XDR RAM.

    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Am I remembering this wrong but 360 was better about handling more open environments? I don't mean programming the hardware itself. Like it was easier to have a larger open-world game on 360 than PS3. Not saying because of power necessarily but how it was structured.

    Don't forget 360 had the 10MB Embedded ram.
    It likely purely revolves around the unified RAM which every console uses now.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  6. #66
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    I can't find anything about that, Wikipedia does mention the latest PS3s started using 128MBx2 XDR RAM instead of 64MBx4 XDR RAM.
    I don't recall where I'd heard that, but this snippet shows that 1066 Mhz DDR3 has the same bandwidth as the XDR used in the PS3.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=uQ...20DDR3&f=false
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post

    Hes bringing back the "PS2 is more powerful than GameCube" mindset. No point in debating as we won't be able to convince him anything.
    behind my previous post where I said '' you don't even need xbox exclusives to beat wii, just ports like Black '' there is a subliminal message.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Code Veronica has higher polycounts than GTA III, which you would think the games wouldn't even be able to compare as GTA III was an insanely huge blockbuster game.
    we measure polygonal count per frame and frame rate to polygons per second, but there is another measurement, total polygons used in the construction of the stages, which we canīt measure, if we take a Code Veronica stage as well as every count seen on the map of GTA III, GTA 3 will make countless more polygons, only of Somehow the game was designed to show that count per frame.
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 11-11-2019 at 08:44 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    It was about memory management. Oblivion was optimized for PS3 and had a longer draw distance. Once developers started making the PS3 the lead platform, the PS3 started getting most of the better versions of games.
    I understand that the performance difference, ps3 and xbox 360, was about GPU, the xbox 360 gpu is more powerful, no doubt, while the ps3 gpu needed to work in parallel with the CPU because the Cell had gpu capabilities , making it roughly an SLI, though anyone should be able to do that, the price and time made it prohibitive, so only first party studios could deliver good results.

  9. #69
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    The Cell Processor could do vector calculations with its SPEs, nothing like SLI. Sony, at one point was going to use the Cell as a GPU, but later scrapped that idea. The graphics were rarely the issue though it had blocky shadows in some games. Most of the PS3ís issues were that only a single cord would be used, for 3rd party ports from 360.

    I believe that we had a thread where a list of superior PS3 3rd party games posted. Final Fantasy XIII and Far Cry: New Vegas were on that list. It became more like 60/40 in the latter half of that generation, in favor of PS3, while early on it was like 70/30 in favor of 360.
    Last edited by gamevet; 11-11-2019 at 12:27 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  10. #70
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    360 CPU was using cell tech as well. There differences sure.

    PS3 almost going with two cells was not because it was so powerful they didn't need one. It was because Ken Kutaragi was arrogant along with the rest of Sony who pretty felt they could do whatever they wanted and still be the market leader. He was nicknamed crazy Ken for a reason.
    Last edited by SegataS; 11-11-2019 at 02:56 PM.



    Life!? ... What console is that on?

  11. #71
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    The Xenon processor in the Xbox 360 was a 3 core IBM PowerPC CPU. The Cell processor was a 2 thread PowerPC CPU, with 7 SPEs added to do vector calculations. The 360 GPU was more powerful than that of the PS3, but once you added in the power of the SPEs of the Cell, it could do more. The Cell is considered more powerful than the CPU in the PS4, and would be more powerful than the Xbox One, if MS didn't overclock it.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  12. #72
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post

    None of those games you mentioned are slouches in polycounts. Code Veronica has higher polycounts than GTA III, which you would think the games wouldn't even be able to compare as GTA III was an insanely huge blockbuster game.

    TA you probably think the second stage in Ikaruga looks good with all the buildings right? That stage runs at a constant 1.8-2.1 million PPS.


    Heres the reality. A game running at 1 million PPS could end up looking better than a game running at 2.5 million PPS, but a game running at 500,000 PPS will usually never look better than a game running at 2.5 million PPS.
    I don't think its fair to compare GTA 3 to Code Veronica myself: CV is a very linear game and even while the game is in 3D the console as complete control of the camera and the angles. GTA 3 is an open world game with a 3D camera.
    What I liked about CV was how wonderful the characters looked and were modelled and the stunning texture mapping and so atmospheric backgrounds.

    With Ikaruga, I liked the 1st stage with those lovely swirling backgrounds. It's not always about how many polygons are used.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
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  13. #73
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    Power is one thing. Efficiency is another. It's a CPU from 2005 really.
    The cell was also a nightmare for developers. Even Sony hated the damn thing by the end of PS3's life since Ken was gone. X86 is much more developer-friendly.


    IBM helped develop both Cell and the 360 CPU and 360 used some of the same tech.

    Xenon in Xbox 360

    The PPE was designed specifically for the Cell processor but during development, Microsoft approached IBM wanting a high performance processor core for its Xbox 360. IBM complied and made the tri-core Xenon processor, based on a slightly modified version of the PPE with added VMX128 extensions.[35][36]
    Synergistic Processing Elements (SPE)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(...on_in_Xbox_360



    Life!? ... What console is that on?

  14. #74
    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegataS View Post
    Power is one thing. Efficiency is another. It's a CPU from 2005 really.
    The cell was also a nightmare for developers. Even Sony hated the damn thing by the end of PS3's life since Ken was gone. X86 is much more developer-friendly.


    IBM helped develop both Cell and the 360 CPU and 360 used some of the same tech.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(...on_in_Xbox_360
    Notice that they mentioned Power PC. Basically, IBM tweaked the Power PC CPUs, stacked the cores and came up with the Xenon and Cell.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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