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Thread: Knuckles Chaotix sucks

  1. #1
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    Default Knuckles Chaotix sucks

    I got a 32x recently with this and Virtua Fighter. But damn, Chaotix is a buggy game. Considering its the last proper 2D kinda ĎSonicí game, you would think it would run great on the 32x. I notice more slowdown than any other Genesis Sonic game. Feels like every level you are half underwater. Falling through special stages for no reason. Occasion screen flicking and music stuttering when itís loading anything from the title screen and in some other areas. And whatís wrong with this games physics? The Sonic Crackers demo runs way smoother than this game. Itís a beautiful game otherwise with mostly good music. Feels rushed otherwise.

    BTW I read that a lot of people have problems with this game not running properly on their setup. Works perfectly on my va2 model 1 Genesis without those useless metal clips. Itís a va1 32x without a SEGA cd attached. 3 hours straight and no lock ups.
    Last edited by Salduchi; 11-08-2019 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Moving to the 32x forum

  2. #2
    Outrunner Chibisteven's Avatar
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    I don't know why this post is in the tech aid section.

    I enjoy Chaotix actually.

    Chaotix works nicely on all but one Sega Genesis I own. The stinker I own is a model 2 VA2.3. Some Genesis' out there have hardware problems that this game can make obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chibisteven View Post
    I don't know why this post is in the tech aid section.
    Sorry. I was looking for a technical answer as to why this game doesnít seem to run well that got buried by my opinion.

  4. #4
    Outrunner Chibisteven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salduchi View Post
    Sorry. I was looking for a technical answer as to why this game doesnít seem to run well that got buried by my opinion.
    As I said it probably boils down to hardware problems more than anything because that same Genesis (model 2 VA2.3) with the 32X will cause Sonic 3D Blast to crash repeatedly and S-Monitor glitch in S3K stops working with the 32X attached. Heck the machine will sometimes play no PCM samples if Streets of Rages is being played regardless if the 32X is attached. Supposedly there's a faulty something in there. Chaotix will freeze on that Genesis to the point you can't even get past the title screen or make it beyond the SEGA logo as well. The machine does behave better when it been used for a few hours.

    The same 32X unit on another Genesis has none of those problems.

    I think Chaotix puts a lot of demand on the Genesis hardware side and if the Genesis hardware can't take it, it fails. Most Genesis / 32X combos I tried don't appear to have any problems.

    I use the metal clips when setting my 32X up as it does help stabilize it a bit in some of my Genesis consoles but to each their own. I suppose the model 1 has more mass to keep it from moving back and forth but it definitely helps with stability in a model 2 along with the plastic spacer to reduce weight on the cart slot.

    My main Genesis is the model 1 VA3 and I have zero problems with Chaotix on that machine.

  5. #5
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    If the unit starts behaving better after being used for a few hours, then it is possible that it needs recapping.

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    Outrunner Chibisteven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    If the unit starts behaving better after being used for a few hours, then it is possible that it needs recapping.
    I have no interest in re-capping my model 2 (VA2.3) anytime soon and the shell on that one is in awful shape too. There maybe problems with the ICs that a re-cap probably won't fix. I might pick up another one in the future but I'm might ultimately prefer my model 1.

    I've re-capped my model 1 (VA3) and notice no changes in how it performs.

    I'm considering a 32X re-cap long-term because it is getting old but I don't have any problems with it and would prefer to wait a few years before tackling this.

    I'm working on getting a model 1 SEGA CD working but it's got some problems. I'll be re-capping that and replacing parts, etc. Or possibly picking up a second one that's in better shape and use the one I have right now for it's parts and re-cap a different one instead. I'm figuring it out as I go along on what it is that I want to do.

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    I just had a very weird issue with this game I have never seen before with any other game. The game locked up, but the music kept playing and the screen moved one frame like every 10 seconds or so. If I mashed the start button as fast as I could, the pause screen would pop up and the music would stop, but I had to hit start during that one rare frame when the screen would move. Super weird. Upon hitting the restart button (didnít have to turn the console totally off) everything was fine. Again, mine is a va2 model 1 Genesis
    Last edited by Salduchi; 11-11-2019 at 12:46 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chibisteven View Post
    I have no interest in re-capping my model 2 (VA2.3) anytime soon and the shell on that one is in awful shape too. There maybe problems with the ICs that a re-cap probably won't fix. I might pick up another one in the future but I'm might ultimately prefer my model 1.

    I've re-capped my model 1 (VA3) and notice no changes in how it performs.

    I'm considering a 32X re-cap long-term because it is getting old but I don't have any problems with it and would prefer to wait a few years before tackling this.

    I'm working on getting a model 1 SEGA CD working but it's got some problems. I'll be re-capping that and replacing parts, etc. Or possibly picking up a second one that's in better shape and use the one I have right now for it's parts and re-cap a different one instead. I'm figuring it out as I go along on what it is that I want to do.
    I'm not saying that you *should* recap the unit, I'm just saying that aging caps are known to cause such problems. The internal PLLs can get buggy with bad caps, which results in bad timing signals, which results in buggy behaviour. One symptom for that is the fact that after the machines "warm up" (ie. they have been running for a while), the problems lessen. Saturns are prone to this and I'd expect that Megadrives would start suffering from it too sooner or later - they don't need as tight timing to work due to being significantly less complex, but on the other hand they are also even older.

  9. #9
    Outrunner Chibisteven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    I'm not saying that you *should* recap the unit, I'm just saying that aging caps are known to cause such problems. The internal PLLs can get buggy with bad caps, which results in bad timing signals, which results in buggy behaviour. One symptom for that is the fact that after the machines "warm up" (ie. they have been running for a while), the problems lessen. Saturns are prone to this and I'd expect that Megadrives would start suffering from it too sooner or later - they don't need as tight timing to work due to being significantly less complex, but on the other hand they are also even older.
    I did leave my model 2 (VA2.3) on almost 24/7 one summer in 1999 or something. It was the only Genesis I had up until either 2007 or 2008. It's since sits completely unused and almost never powered on anymore in the closet which is why I have zero interest in recapping it. It always had the Streets of Rage lack of percussion bug that will show up a lot and could be fixed by power cycles. It was less likely when it had been used.

    This explanation is certainly helpful and I didn't even consider it a possibility for 32X problems with my model 2 (VA2.3) or why Sonic 3D Blast will crash to the point it's unplayable when it's attached to that Genesis but not the other ones I own.

    I wonder when 6 generation consoles like the Dreamcast will start to needing new capacitors as these machines are around 20 years of age.
    Last edited by Chibisteven; 11-11-2019 at 04:32 PM.

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    The 32x does suffer from many other compatibility issues with various Megadrive units, I believe some of the Sega tech bulletins mention a few... I don't know if they specifically say anything for VA2.3 units, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zyrobs View Post
    The 32x does suffer from many other compatibility issues with various Megadrive units, I believe some of the Sega tech bulletins mention a few... I don't know if they specifically say anything for VA2.3 units, though.
    It could just be the unit I have. I know the model 1 VA4 is incompatible with the 32X but can be fixed with a simple modification. I think it's strange that a model 2 Genesis from around 1995 would have 32X problems. Interestingly if I connect Sonic 3D Blast through a Game Genie the crashing actually stops with that Genesis when the 32X is attached but doesn't fix the S-monitor crash into S&K not working trick to get debug in S&K when the 32X is attached. I think it just has a combination of capacitor problems, faulty ICs, etc. Purchasing a second one could easily rule out everything. I have a Mega Everdrive X5, so if someone has written a utility that can stress test the Genesis' logical components a.k.a. digital side, it be helpful.
    Last edited by Chibisteven; 11-11-2019 at 09:18 PM.

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    edit
    almost forgot...
    Last edited by vexatious; 11-28-2019 at 04:01 PM. Reason: image found

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    Recapping that VA2.3 won't fix those kinds of problems.
    Instead, try adding an 18pF capacitor to C13 and see of that helps any.
    Some VA2.3s with 315-5786 ASICs need an 18pF cap there (it's a decoupling cap for the 68000 CLK line) to run 100% stable, but Sega CS, firm in their skinflint ways, opted to leave it out. This cap is particularly important if the main CPU is a Hitachi HD68HC000; that chip seems to be particularly sensitive to a noisy CLK line.
    A common symptom is games that thrash the 68K (Aladdin, Dynamite Headdy, etc.) will have massive graphical glitches or randomly lock up. Other games may have other problems, or no problems at all (hence why it probably went past Sega CS's QA).

    VA2s with 315-5786 ASICs will usually NOT have this issue despite there being no cap there either.
    This is possibly because Sega rerouted the CLK line using what looks like a weird little shielded cable with two leads.

    The 18pF cap you need is an 0805 (2012 metric) size SMD unit.
    Last edited by Eep386; 12-04-2019 at 04:43 PM.

  14. #14
    Outrunner Chibisteven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eep386 View Post
    Recapping that VA2.3 won't fix those kinds of problems.
    Instead, try adding an 18pF capacitor to C13 and see of that helps any.
    Some VA2.3s with 315-5786 ASICs need an 18pF cap there (it's a decoupling cap for the 68000 CLK line) to run 100% stable, but Sega CS, firm in their skinflint ways, opted to leave it out. This cap is particularly important if the main CPU is a Hitachi HD68HC000; that chip seems to be particularly sensitive to a noisy CLK line.
    A common symptom is games that thrash the 68K (Aladdin, Dynamite Headdy, etc.) will have massive graphical glitches or randomly lock up. Other games may have other problems, or no problems at all (hence why it probably went past Sega CS's QA).

    VA2s with 315-5786 ASICs will usually NOT have this issue despite there being no cap there either.
    This is possibly because Sega rerouted the CLK line using what looks like a weird little shielded cable with two leads.

    The 18pF cap you need is an 0805 (2012 metric) size SMD unit.
    The IC is a 315-5786 but it looks the M68K is a MC68HC000FN12. I don't have Aladdin or Dynamite Headdy but I'm tempted to try those games on there now that this has been brought to my attention.

  15. #15
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets SegataS's Avatar
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    I have a Genesis Model 2 and this game doesn't work. Never has. For years I figured my 32X was broken. I bought one other game Cosmic Carnage ages ago but still never played it. I just assumed I had a broken 32X and never got around to replace it. So I passed up on Tempo when it was 10 bucks all the time. Now it's over 100 CIB. It was not until an episode of James and Mike Mondays where they had the game crash at the exact moment mine did. I was shocked. They kept trying different things then finally using a Genesis Model 1 is what got it to work. So all these years it wasn't my 32X or the game but some dumbass oversight by SEGA. I am still bitter about this.



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