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Thread: SEGA Saturn a Historical Revisionism

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    That graph is meant to represent worldwide figures (I think), so it includes places like Japan where arcades were very strong through the end of the 90s.

    But honestly, what is the source of that graph? It's supplied by the industry analyst who is interviewed in the article from his own research.

    The strangest thing is that he shows almost no growth in the PC market from 1993 ($8 billion) to 2001 ($10 billion), but that seems incredibly hard to believe. That is the period that represents the explosion in PC gaming. How can there be no revenue growth?
    Hmm... yes that's true PC gaming was growing by leaps and bounds in the 90s. Is there another source for this kind of information?

    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Iíd say by 1997, that arcade games were a non-factor on consoles. Even Nintendo really didnít hype Killer Instinct Gold in 1996, when they released it on the N64. Really, 1996 was the year when arcade games in the West took a back seat to console games.
    That sounds right to me too. The one on one fighters were the last big arcade hits I remember, so the Capcom games, Mortal Kombat, Neo Geo, VF, Tekken, stuff like that. About 1995 was the limit, you look at the big games after that time and it's titles like Mario 64, FF7, a bunch of FPSs, stuff that doesn't work as well in an arcade.

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    Tekken 3 sold over 8 million units, Tekken 2 sold over 5 million, even Ace Combat was a million seller, So was Crusin USA, even Crazy Taxi . So Arcade ports still could sell and do well.. In the UK in was in 1999 that one started to see a Big decline.

    In 1995 the only difference I saw was the move away from having Arcade games (like Strider, Shinobi) in take aways, Cafe's and the local chippy..But there was plenty of big dedicated Arcades and also loads of Arcade games, in the Cinema and tenpin bowling arenas
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    Cruis ní USA was a 1994 arcade game, and let me tell you, those arcade cabinets looked really cheap, especially the sit-down cabinet. And considering how sparse the N64 software lineup was, games like that could sell on the N64. Tekken 2 and 3 sold well, because of the 1st game on the PS, not because millions of people played those in an arcade. Crazy Taxi was on Naomi hardware, so itís not like the arcade hardware was as expensive as model 3. I actually saw Crazy Taxi in smaller establishments.

    The great Nolan Bushnell once said that arcades died the day it costed a $1 to play a game.
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    Crusin USA sold well enough to have a sequel in the Arcades and on the N64 Tekken 2 and 3 did the business in the Arcades and in the home.

    They was still quite a lot of Arcades players in the home and Arcades in the mid 90's. It's not like Arcade games made up the bulk of Mega Drive or SNES sales, but there was still a decent demand.

    Speaking of Midway , Their crappy WWF games did well in the Arcades and Konami's Silent Cope and beat Mania games did well too.

    No idea of the USA but I saw the decline and come 2000 it was rapid and where so many Arcades were gone or full of Gambling Fruit machines.

    I saw and played plenty of NA@MI games in UK Arcades, only saw and played Club Drive when it came to NA@MI 2 games *wipes tear*
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    Cruisn USA and World were gigantic over here, they had a dual cab in every arcade I ever visited.

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    @Zyrobs. You saw a lot of Cruis Ní ISA and World because they were cheap cabinets. World was just a kit upgrade to the 1st game. I thought that they were pretty boring and certainly not worth the 75 cents to a $1 most places were charging.

    I saw tons of Cruis Ní USA and Tekken games in the theater game rooms. Thatís where a good bulk of them were sold to, movie chains. Regal theater had the exact same games in every theater.

    Most of the arcades became more about ticket redemption games and a sprinkling of cheap upright arcade machines like San Francisco Rush and Tekken. You wouldnít see Deluxe arcade machines like Jumbo Safari and Jurassic Park outside of the high end arcade places like D&B and Gameworks. Smaller arcade chains like Gold Mine and Aladdinís Castle weíre disappearing.

    And I never said arcade style games werenít popular in the 90s. I said that most people werenít interested in games from arcades, as in, thatís not where they played them. Hell, I never played Street Fighter Alpha, or MK4 in the arcades, and I barely played MK3 there either. I mostly played those games on the consoles. Now Silent Scope, that was a game you needed to experience in the arcades. The game wasnít the same without that sniper rifle.
    Last edited by gamevet; 01-16-2020 at 12:45 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    That's what Namco did so well with Tekken 1 and 2 had it running on the super cheap PSX based System 11 board, even Tekken 3 run on a speed up PS system board with System 12, which would have been way cheaper than VF on Model 1, never mind VF 3 on Model 3

    That said Sega Rally was huge in the UK with Arcade cabs in almost every UK Arcade one visited. Gun Blade NY was massive too. When it came to Model 3 games in the UK. Sega Rally II and GetBass seemed to be everywhere, but it was hard to find any Arcades with Daytona USA 2, LA machine guns in the UK (bar the massive Arcade centers)
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    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    I think the disagreement here comes down to each of you having different subjective experiences in your local arcades. But that's probably not a good indicator of the health of the arcade industry.

    We really need to see revenue numbers for different arcade manufacturers.

    Those numbers are available for Sega, but they include Japan, so it's not going to answer this question. I'll give the numbers anyway:

    Sega arcade operations revenue:
    1993: 59 billion yen
    1998: 91 billion yen
    2001: 74 billion yen

    Sega arcade machine revenue:
    1993: 58 billion yen
    1998: 102 billion yen
    2001: 53 billion yen

    From 1993 to 1998, Sega's revenue from its arcades and sales of arcade games almost doubled. But 1998 was the peak, and it began to fall quite sharply after that.

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    End of line.. Hero of Algol gamevet's Avatar
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    My observations were that mall arcades became fewer and fewer. And if you wanted to play an arcade game, you were more likely to see them in a game room like your local bowling alley, or in large supercades like Gameworks. The small arcade chains like Aladdinís castle were pretty much gone, and Iíve read that Namco bought them out and it became Cyberstation, which I havenít seen in forever.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



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    My mall had an arcade center until the entire mall was torn down in 2003. It had a bunch of SEGA machines from the 80s up to Naomi games. My last apartment was close to a shopping area with a Movies 10 theatre which had arcade machines and still had Crazy Taxi, Outrun, Area 51, Initial D,Cruis'n USA and others up until it's closure 3 years ago.



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    The closest one to my Apartment was Gold Mine in Prestonwood Mall. They had price tags on all of their machines for several years before shutting it down around 99. They tore the mall down in 2004 and replaced it with a shopping center for Walmart, Best Buy, Etc.
    Last edited by gamevet; 01-16-2020 at 08:49 PM.
    A Black Falcon: no, computer games and video games are NOT the same thing. Video games are on consoles, computer games are on PC. The two kinds of games are different, and have significantly different design styles, distribution methods, and game genre selections. Computer gaming and console (video) gaming are NOT the same thing."



  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    The great Nolan Bushnell once said that arcades died the day it costed a $1 to play a game.
    Bushnell is right. Arcades got very expensive, especially at a time when people already had consoles and computers at home. The high difficulty of most arcade games didn't help. They became the domain of hardcore gamers because nobody else wanted to pay money to watch it disappear in a minute or two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryson View Post
    I think the disagreement here comes down to each of you having different subjective experiences in your local arcades. But that's probably not a good indicator of the health of the arcade industry.

    We really need to see revenue numbers for different arcade manufacturers.

    Those numbers are available for Sega, but they include Japan, so it's not going to answer this question. I'll give the numbers anyway:

    Sega arcade operations revenue:
    1993: 59 billion yen
    1998: 91 billion yen
    2001: 74 billion yen

    Sega arcade machine revenue:
    1993: 58 billion yen
    1998: 102 billion yen
    2001: 53 billion yen

    From 1993 to 1998, Sega's revenue from its arcades and sales of arcade games almost doubled. But 1998 was the peak, and it began to fall quite sharply after that.
    That is interesting that revenue went up in the 90s. But there are two parts to the business, so we'd need to see revenue for both the manufacturer and the arcade operators. Sega selling a lot of units is good for them but doesn't help the guy running an arcade at the local mall if people stop playing the games.

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    Mega Driver Hedgehog-in-TrainingMaster of Shinobi Gryson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel View Post
    That is interesting that revenue went up in the 90s. But there are two parts to the business, so we'd need to see revenue for both the manufacturer and the arcade operators. Sega selling a lot of units is good for them but doesn't help the guy running an arcade at the local mall if people stop playing the games.
    The revenue figures I provided are for both Sega's arcade operations (meaning the arcades they run) and the sales of their games to arcades. Their arcades were mostly in Japan, though.

    But the two are closely connected. Arcade operators would be buying fewer new machines if revenues were down.

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