32X vs. 3DO vs. Jaguar

[nissling]

Hmm, I guess 32X.

[j_factor]

He said "potentially". If the 32X launched with Super Mario Galaxy, Halo 3 and GTA IV, it probably would've done better than "it did".

Well, of course, but realistically, I don't think 32x had the potential to bolster support for Genesis. Even if 32x had been moderately popular, it only would've been so with existing Genesis owners. I don't think it would've had the ability to attract new Genesis owners or encourage third parties to make more Genesis (not 32x) games. And even with that sunny scenario, you still would've had the split market problem.

It's also worth noting that Genesis was pretty damn well supported in 1994. It wasn't in any need of bolstering until after the 32x came along and did its damage.

I'm still of the opinion that 32x really lacked purpose. It wasn't as powerful as Saturn, even worse to program for, and it used (basically) the same cartridges as Genesis. What point was there ever in making a game for 32x? It's no wonder that the system's library consists of a small handful of original first-party offerings and a bunch of ports.

A console maker lying? That must've been the first and last time. At least Sega was above such dirty tricks.

Sonic 3D Blast really is 3D, though. I mean, not in the sense that most of us think, but it still qualifies. It has "3D graphics" and the gameplay is 3D since your movement is tracked on three different axises (axes?), therefore having three dimensions.

[tomaitheous]

I think j_factor is right on the money. The Genesis was strong in 1994, Sega should have been putting resource into the Saturn software in preparation instead of the 32x. The time difference between the 32x and Saturn was what, 8 months? If the 32x was released in mid '93, then that might have been different - dunno.

The 32x was really lacking and hurt the Sega imo. The 32x is cool now, that all of this is in the past and that we might see some demos or home brew development for it in the future.

[Aarzak]

Well, of course, but realistically, I don't think 32x had the potential to bolster support for Genesis. Even if 32x had been moderately popular, it only would've been so with existing Genesis owners. I don't think it would've had the ability to attract new Genesis owners or encourage third parties to make more Genesis (not 32x) games. And even with that sunny scenario, you still would've had the split market problem.

It's also worth noting that Genesis was pretty damn well supported in 1994. It wasn't in any need of bolstering until after the 32x came along and did its damage.

I'm still of the opinion that 32x really lacked purpose. It wasn't as powerful as Saturn, even worse to program for, and it used (basically) the same cartridges as Genesis. What point was there ever in making a game for 32x? It's no wonder that the system's library consists of a small handful of original first-party offerings and a bunch of ports.





Sonic 3D Blast really is 3D, though. I mean, not in the sense that most of us think, but it still qualifies. It has "3D graphics" and the gameplay is 3D since your movement is tracked on three different axises (axes?), therefore having three dimensions.

Dammit, must you remind me of the $65 my father wasted in vain buying me that game for Christmas 1996? I never did get the $65 worth from that measly cart. The intro had blown me away even before I actually saw it (crisp pics on GameFan) and it did have some of the Genny's nicest pre-rendered graphics, but the game wasn't so good. The Saturn version with it's superior graphics and sound also distracted me from the cart. It did have what I still consider to be the most unique Stage Select process ever: just slightly nudge and/or move the cart, not enough to corrupt the game, and a screen will come up Congratulating you for finding the secret Stage Select. TRUE STORY. It was random but I had done it numerous times. So much I damn near wasted away the top part of my copy's label. If you have a 3D Blast cart, go ahead and experiment.

[Genesis Knight]

Yeah, the S3DB 'bump' cheat is one of the wierdest ever.

[Aarzak]

I got this off of an old "Digital Press" forum thread in which I originally found out about this oddity:

This is well-known. You see, in the Genesis, the first 256 bytes of the ROM hold the 68k exception vectors. In Sonic 3D Blast, all of the normally unused vectors are set to point to the level select routine. So, thus, when you bump the cart and cause the game to crash, it jumps to the level select. Most games have these extra vectors set to an infinite loop routine, so that the game would just appear to "freeze". Sonic 1 has some actual error handlers that will display a small amount debugging information on the screen. Since it just happened to the original poster without any sort of intentional cart jostling, it sounds like it might be the cart going bad.

You can also get to the level select with the BARACUDA code, but it doesn't show the "Congratulations!" screen.

On another note, I remember trying to preserve that game's damn cardboard box so much soon after I got the game, but it got damaged too quick and I finally gave in to temptation and threw it away. It had pretty sweet box art as well, much better than the one advertised on mail order print ads throughout 1996-1997 (the art you see on the game's cart label).

Back on-topic..............well I think we've discussed everything that can be discussed about the 32X now haven't we?

[Psy]

I think j_factor is right on the money. The Genesis was strong in 1994, Sega should have been putting resource into the Saturn software in preparation instead of the 32x. The time difference between the 32x and Saturn was what, 8 months? If the 32x was released in mid '93, then that might have been different - dunno.

The 32x was really lacking and hurt the Sega imo. The 32x is cool now, that all of this is in the past and that we might see some demos or home brew development for it in the future.

Yhea, I think Sega should have put its entire hardware staff on the Saturn and not have wasted man power on the 32X, then Sega might have gotten a decent development kit out in time.

[Melf]

Also a note to any posters thinking the 32X can actually compete with the other two consoles, especially the Jaguar. Come on, if you get the chance, play both systems version of Doom. That's the best way to see just how horrible the 32X attachment was. Jaguar owns it OK? It owns it like the goat owns the Chicago Cubs. If you want to see a polygonal difference, then you can compare Virtua Fighter to Iron Soldier. Iron Soldier beats VF like a red-headed stepchild.

You're right about the others, but Doom 32X isn't a good choice to make a fair comparison. It was rushed out the door in order to make the launch, and it got completely butchered during development. If you want a true example of the 32X's power for comparison, I'd try something like Darxide. I'm sure both people who own a copy can attest to how it pushes the hardware.

[Joe Redifer]

Compare Iron Soldier to Metal Head. Iron Soldier has no texture mapping. Just solid colored rectangles here and there. And Fight for Life pales compared to Virtua Fighter 32X.

[j_factor]

Jaguar never had any really talented, dedicated programmers working on it, though. I mean, the same can kind of be said about a lot of systems, but Jaguar really didn't have much of any "serious" development. So it's hard to compare. Virtua Fighter was a well-done port of a high-profile, high-budget arcade game developed by a team known for technical prowess. Fight for Life was some crap by a few dudes who didn't know what they were doing and had no money.

[Psy]

Jaguar never had any really talented, dedicated programmers working on it, though. I mean, the same can kind of be said about a lot of systems, but Jaguar really didn't have much of any "serious" development. So it's hard to compare. Virtua Fighter was a well-done port of a high-profile, high-budget arcade game developed by a team known for technical prowess. Fight for Life was some crap by a few dudes who didn't know what they were doing and had no money.

But the Jaguar CPU was pathetically weak only a 68000 @ 13.3 MHz with the video and sound processors of the Jaguar are @ 26.59 MHz. The weak CPU in the Jaguar was a huge bottleneck.

Atari though they could just get the sub-processors to do most the work but it didn't work for two major reasons Atari overlooked. The first problem is the Jaguar development kit made the early Saturn development kit look good this meant it was hard for developers to property make use of the Jaguar hardware. Atari also overlooked the fact that 3D games require more CPU power for the game engine itself (which is run of the primary processor), this means the graphic processor has to wait for the game engine running off the weaker 68000 to tell it where everything moved to.

[Black_Tiger]

Saying that the 32X couldn't compete with the Jaguar is like saying that the Genesis couldn't compete with the SNES.

Regardless of hardware potential, its all about software. Whatever the potential of the Jaguar or the 32X, the 32X got several quality games that can't be matched on Jaguar and has better examples of 3D graphics.

But that still doesn't mean that people will buy the "better" system(however anyone judges better).

In theory the Playstation 3 can't be beat, but its in last place.

[Aarzak]

3DO>32X>Jaguar. In terms of popularity (as little as it may have been for all three), sales and third-party support.

The Atari Jaguar was just a disaster from the inside out. Most bottlenecked, flawed console architecture I've ever heard about.

[Olly h]

Hello,im a new member here and ive been reading your discussions on this 32x vs 3DO vs jaguar debate. Ive owned all these consoles in the past and i can honestly say that the 3DO was the most enjoyable out of the 3 played. I can understand that your all pretty much hardcore sega fans but the 32X was a complete disaster and was a huge embarassment to SEGA and the library of games were weak and mostly poor conversions. The games were nothing special. Most of the games like sega cd were just updates on Mega Drive games.

The 3DO at the time had a stupid high price and im not gonna argue with that, i got mine when 3DO was sort of dying down, got it at reasonable price from Special Reserve any UK posters will remember them!. I had Space Hulk, Killing time, SSF2T, Road Rash, Hell, Flashback, Need for speed, Fifa, Rebel assualt, samurai showdown etc..all the popular games but i also had Doom the worst conversion ever but did have great music. I loved this console, it was a great part of my child hood. The jaguar i had for a short while, my friend sold it off to me, was a ok console. The pad was a knightmare pretty much like a telephone the D-pad was too stiff aswell. I dont remember that many decents comes for it, it came with cybermorph which was ok but nothing special and of course the classics AVP and Doom. But it wasnt worth buying a jaguar to play just a couple of games.

You may all disagree with me but the 3DO was the most successful out of the 3 and isnt regarded as a complete disaster like the 32X and the jaguar.Yeah the 3DO didnt last that long but it did have a great selection of games that were ported to the saturn and PSX.

[tomaitheous]

But the Jaguar CPU was pathetically weak only a 68000 @ 13.3 MHz with the video and sound processors of the Jaguar are @ 26.59 MHz. The weak CPU in the Jaguar was a huge bottleneck.

Atari though they could just get the sub-processors to do most the work but it didn't work for two major reasons Atari overlooked. The first problem is the Jaguar development kit made the early Saturn development kit look good this meant it was hard for developers to property make use of the Jaguar hardware. Atari also overlooked the fact that 3D games require more CPU power for the game engine itself (which is run of the primary processor), this means the graphic processor has to wait for the game engine running off the weaker 68000 to tell it where everything moved to.

And yet it was able to do Alien VS Predator. Of the three systems(and with it's bottle necks) it's probably the most advanced. I'm not much of an atari fan though. 3DO had better games.. going by memory.