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Thread: Tom Kalinske personally shills the Sega Saturn on rec.games.video.sega (August 1995)

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    Raging in the Streets Aarzak's Avatar
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    Another problem I believe, is that all of the Saturn's chips and processors weren't designed to work well together in the first place. They just......tossed them in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aarzak View Post
    Another problem I believe, is that all of the Saturn's chips and processors weren't designed to work well together in the first place. They just......tossed them in there.
    Nope the chips work pretty well together, you just have to understand the second processor is a co-processor not a processor working in true parallel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy View Post
    Nope the chips work pretty well together, you just have to understand the second processor is a co-processor not a processor working in true parallel.

    Obviously, Sega's own internal programmers had problems with the hardware. AM2's conversions of Daytona USA and Virtua Fighter were not exactly arcade perfect, while AM3 was able to make a near arcade perfect port of Sega Rally 95. AM3 later worked on Daytona USA: Championship Edition, and while it looked much better than AM2's Daytona, the controls felt somewhat floaty in comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaitheous View Post


    Single CPU architecture + GTE (geometry assist)+more versatile GPU *VS* more complex multiple processor setup (2nd SH2 crippled by the shared bus)+no geometry assist+less versatile GPU. The Saturn also has limited size sample ram and no sample compression, but that didn't seem to really effect the music quality.
    It didn't effect the music quality, because most of the early Saturn games used Red-Book audio directly from the disc. The sound samples often sounded muted, compared to the Playstation version of the same game.
    Last edited by gamevet; 01-18-2009 at 12:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Obviously, Sega's own internal programmers had problems with the hardware. AM2's conversions of Daytona USA and Virtua Fighter were not exactly arcade perfect, while AM3 was able to make a near arcade perfect port of Sega Rally 95. AM3 later worked on Daytona USA: Championship Edition, and while it looked much better than AM2's Daytona, the controls felt somewhat floaty in comparison.
    Sega's programmers had the same problem all developers had and that is the lack of a decent devlopment kit. Like I said by 1998 even small Japanese devlopment houses that was working on the Saturn no longer had issues since good devlopment tools existed for the Saturn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy View Post
    Sega's programmers had the same problem all developers had and that is the lack of a decent devlopment kit. Like I said by 1998 even small Japanese devlopment houses that was working on the Saturn no longer had issues since good devlopment tools existed for the Saturn.
    Well they (Sega) were the ones that had to make them, aren't they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    Well they (Sega) were the ones that had to make them, aren't they?
    Right and the SegaCD/MegaCD should have warned Sega of Japan that they can't just dump complex hardware on developers without proper devlopment kits. There is nothing really wrong with the Sega Saturn hardware, late Japanese titles showed that, the problem was Sega made it unnecessary difficult for developers.

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    My point was that even Sega didn't have the proper developer tools necessary, since they were the ones that had to make them and were struggling.

    Sure, Sega wasn't exactly giving away programming information to its 3rd party publishers, but I don't believe Sega was using anything close to developer software to do it either. If that was the case, we wouldn't have seen such a horrible port of Sega Touring Car Championship on the Saturn.

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    It really makes me sad to look back on how badly the Saturn did, because I loved it from the day I finally got one, and it's still my favorite Sega system.

    Even though my Sega CD's internal memory from 1995 is more reliable than the Saturn's, which is both hilarious and sad.

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    You just have to replace the battery once a year. Luckily, I have 2 memory carts.

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    I have a Action Replay 4-in-1, but it has a very annoying tendency to randomly wipe out the whole card.

    This is especially bad when you have a Dragon Force save, which takes up about 260 blocks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamevet View Post
    My point was that even Sega didn't have the proper developer tools necessary, since they were the ones that had to make them and were struggling.

    Sure, Sega wasn't exactly giving away programming information to its 3rd party publishers, but I don't believe Sega was using anything close to developer software to do it either. If that was the case, we wouldn't have seen such a horrible port of Sega Touring Car Championship on the Saturn.
    Sega did release more complex arcade boards prior to the Sega Saturn like the Y Board with three 68K processors and was used for G-Loc and Power Drift (and a few other titles), the difference was that these boards were engineered in tandem with arcade games for the hardware while the Sega Saturn was engineered with no game in mind as it was the first major home system Sega built from scratch instead of based on their existing arcade hardware (thus they couldn't tweak the hardware for Sega's game designers). Really at the time of the Saturn's devlopment Sega had no clear vision of what to do with their home hardware thus they wasted too much time changing the specs of the Saturn even before the major redesign when Sega learned of the Playstation specs thus the devlopment tools for the final hardware were rushed.

    Like I said by 1998 Japanese developers no longer had issues with programing the Saturn yet by then it was too late.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy View Post
    Sega did release more complex arcade boards prior to the Sega Saturn like the Y Board with three 68K processors and was used for G-Loc and Power Drift (and a few other titles), the difference was that these boards were engineered in tandem with arcade games for the hardware while the Sega Saturn was engineered with no game in mind as it was the first major home system Sega built from scratch instead of based on their existing arcade hardware (thus they couldn't tweak the hardware for Sega's game designers). Really at the time of the Saturn's devlopment Sega had no clear vision of what to do with their home hardware thus they wasted too much time changing the specs of the Saturn even before the major redesign when Sega learned of the Playstation specs thus the devlopment tools for the final hardware were rushed.

    Like I said by 1998 Japanese developers no longer had issues with programing the Saturn yet by then it was too late.
    That's not really true. The Saturn has quite a bit of similarities and tech copied from the system 32 in the graphics arrangment.

    Also, they had to have some sort specific vision of what they were designing for. There's no way a company is going to spend millions on development to just to say, "Hey, we're not sure what this system is actually tailored for or going to do, but here it is".

    As the Sega Bible tells us; once upon a time Sega set out to make a home system based on the system32 (an upgrade too). Sony came along and introduced its specs for its system. Already in development, Sega made later additions to bring the system up. The Saturn does polygons by warping sprites - hence quads instead of triangles. There is no real 3D hardware in the saturn per say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomaitheous View Post
    That's not really true. The Saturn has quite a bit of similarities and tech copied from the system 32 in the graphics arrangment.

    Also, they had to have some sort specific vision of what they were designing for. There's no way a company is going to spend millions on development to just to say, "Hey, we're not sure what this system is actually tailored for or going to do, but here it is".

    As the Sega Bible tells us; once upon a time Sega set out to make a home system based on the system32 (an upgrade too). Sony came along and introduced its specs for its system. Already in development, Sega made later additions to bring the system up. The Saturn does polygons by warping sprites - hence quads instead of triangles. There is no real 3D hardware in the saturn per say.
    The Saturn performance was still highely theoretical when its specs were finalized, and at the time Sega had no arcade board like the Saturn to which borrow devlopment tools from. As for the Saturn it started devlopment back in 1991 as the GigaDrive before the model 1 was released, the GigaDrive devlopment was starting up as the MegaCD devlopment was finishing up.

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    Second Base = Best Base Raging in the Streets Tanegashima's Avatar
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    I'm still upset we've not debated if the Confederacy won, would there have been a Sega Saturn? Would the Confederacy have been PAL or NTSC? How would Nintendo have fared in the CSA? Could Sega have dominated the South? What if Zanzibar had won the Anglo-Zanzibar war?!! Could SEGA have held on in the UK as long as they did?
    Last edited by Tanegashima; 08-01-2010 at 05:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghaleon View Post
    If Sega as a whole had done this, things might have gone much better; unfortunately SOJ seems to have had their minds made up and didn't defer to Kalinske as to how to handle things in the US on this one, much less in Japan--but what if they had listended to him, even just about the US situation? What if all of us "informed" gamers (who read EGM, r.i.p.) had known that we were being denied the next generation Sega console, and that the person doing it was the savior of the Genesis? How would the informed US hard-core Sega fans have reacted, and would this have been significantly different from the general reaction of the US Sega customer base? Could Kalinske have squeezed that much more life out of the Genesis and it's ecosystem, or would we have protested being stuck with that while Japanese gamers got to play those amazing 3D games?

    And...discuss.
    I read Game Informer back in those days, and I remember being naive to the idea that the Saturn and PlayStation would actually come to the US. The Genesis and Super Nintendo were the main platforms, I didn't think there was a need for them to be replaced.

    I don't think US gamers/hard-core gamers would have cared if Saturn or even for that matter PlayStation never came to US, it would have been like those other only in Japan consoles.

    Both SEGA and Nintendo would have benefited as they would have continued their competition here, and we probably would have saw more titles for 32X get released and maybe the Neptune unit by 1996 to compete with Nintendo 64.
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