Taz-Mania

[StarMist]

^ Those are all good reasons. I disagree about the lv design though, it's not that bad in Taz, and the cheap bomb placement TNG harps on about is no cheaper than the cheap enemy placement in CHC, that's why I initiated the comparison. Nor do I think much of DfH's lv design. In graphics each has a different advantage: CHC has superbly fluid player character animation, DfH has proper character sprite dimensions, whilst Taz has superior source fidelity (the whole game resembles the cartoon from what I've glimpsed of it, whereas DfH must be a disappointment to its comic book fans with that painful dithering and of course CHC is a complete visual joke beside Contra and Super C) plus IMO superior colouring. And CHC is just a visual abortion, the bloody screen's chopped down making every sprite look cramped, the palette's nasty, the enemy robots are of over the moon idiotic design. DfH's characters also look cheesy but that can be partially discounted for source fidelity (unless they're wrongly depicted, I'm assuming they're drawn right).
Yes Taz does scroll choppily, jump queerly, his sprite occupies too much screen, and he falls through the rims of the water jets, but the game's entirely manageable, nothing near broken. Again, I do consider the avg game bad and within my own scoring terms would give it something like a 3, but these review threads are to be looked at according to Sega 16's lights so I adjusted accordingly.

Still I'd like to see more examples of games you two think within Sega 16's 3 to 6 range.

[Barone]

I don't like CHC or Super C so you can rest about that.

I wouldn't say Sega 16's since some reviewers, like Phantar, usually don't inflate the scores like some others...

What I can do is to list some other games that I consider mediocre (not necessarily in the same level of mediocrity) and better than Taz-Mania (do expect some harshness since my quality control seems to be fussier than 99.9% of Sega-16 members'):

Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle
Alien 3 (Genesis Version)
B.O.B. (Genesis Version)
Boogerman: A Pick and Flick Adventure
Chuck Rock II
DecapAttack
James Pond II: Codename: Robocod (Genesis Version)
Mamono Hunter Yohko: Dai-7 no Keishou
Marvel Land
Sonic 3D Blast
Time Dominator 1st
Toki: Going Ape Spit
Wolfchild (Genesis Version)
Zool: Ninja of the 'Nth' Dimension

[MrMatthews]

Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle
Alien 3 (Genesis Version)
B.O.B. (Genesis Version)
Boogerman: A Pick and Flick Adventure
Chuck Rock II
DecapAttack
James Pond II: Codename: Robocod (Genesis Version)
Mamono Hunter Yohko: Dai-7 no Keishou
Marvel Land
Sonic 3D Blast
Time Dominator 1st
Toki: Going Ape Spit
Wolfchild (Genesis Version)
Zool: Ninja of the 'Nth' Dimension

I concur with the glorious mediocrity of this title, but Starmist might have a bit more to say about it.

[Smii]

I didn't think Taz was that bad. But my judgement is hampered once again by nostalgia, and probably having grown good at this game from lots of practice as a kid. I still quite like the style (yes, even the music :P).

I will say one thing though. Screw the mine cart level. And all mine cart levels.

Also, I don't care for Taz on Mars.

[Thenewguy]

TNG harps on about is no cheaper than the cheap enemy placement in CHC

There is no "cheap enemy placement" in C:HC there are screens where enemies are numerous and the bullets go wild, and there are boss fights which need their patterns learned.

I'll repeat, if the grunts are giving you problems in Hard Corps, its because you are shit at the game, its pure and simple, the average grunts are pretty slow, they can easily be seen, and they can be dispatched with very little effort.

Your problem doesn't sound like trial and error, your problem sounds like you can't aim and dodge, and the trial and error of the bosses is kicking the crap out of you on top of that.

of course CHC is a complete visual joke beside Contra and Super C)

Of course NES does have better graphics than every other console out there though -_-

the enemy robots are of over the moon idiotic design.

What were they thinking?! next they'll be putting in giant zombie turtles as bosses!...

oh, wait a minute

Still I'd like to see more examples of games you two think within Sega 16's 3 to 6 range.

I'd go along with a lot of Agost's list, but I would score Marvel Land higher due to the warp points etc, and the fact that its level design are pretty cool and it doesn't have that many issues (slowdown would be the major one I guess, and the graphics look a bit dated, but thats to be expected of a port of a older arcade game somewhat). Decap Attack I would also say is ~7/10.

His list plus some added (and the ones I haven't got enough experience with removed)

Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle
B.O.B.
Boogerman: A Pick and Flick Adventure (this one is borderline)
Chuck Rock 1
Chuck Rock II (this one is borderline)
James Pond II: Codename: Robocod (bad port)
Sonic 3D Blast
Socket
Toki: Going Ape Spit
Wolfchild
Zool: Ninja of the 'Nth' Dimension
Wonder Boy: Monster Lair (good example of a game which is average)
3 Ninja's Kick Back
The Flintstones
Garfield: Caught in the Act
High Seas Havok
Risky Woods
Tinhead
Bubsy
The Jungle Book

[StarMist]

There is no "cheap enemy placement" in C:HC there are screens where enemies are numerous and the bullets go wild, and there are boss fights which need their patterns learned.

I just played this through with Sheena, paths 2 and 2, and every lv I saw with her would affirm your statement. When I'd last played it I'd used the wolfman. In his lv where the scientist is the boss I remembered there being enemy spawns right in front of you as the screen scrolled; nothing like that occurred in what I just played through so either it may well be isolated to his lvs or mismemory on my end. >>>

Your problem doesn't sound like trial and error, your problem sounds like you can't aim and dodge, and the trial and error of the bosses is kicking the crap out of you on top of that.

However I don't see one set of trial and error being better than another. In Taz it involves learning which pillars and so forth obscure bombs, in CHC it involves learning enemy patterns. In Taz learning these placements takes at most two plays, and I do think the game acceptable enough for a child receiving the game nineteen years ago or whatever it was that he'd want to play it thrice at least. In the case of an older player buying it for himself on the cheap, well it's not really worse than most of the stuff in any given bargain bin.
Tbh I find both games a complete waste of time--which is what an avg game represents to me. I wouldn't have played through CHC but I was tired and expected my campaign to only last a couple lvs. Sheena's homing laser makes it rather broken.

{{ re games in the 3 to 6 range of Sega-16's system, or games that are mediocre but superior to Taz-Mania }}

Alex Kidd in the Enchanted Castle close. About half the quality of the MD titles.
B.O.B. much better than Taz
Boogerman: A Pick and Flick Adventure (this one is borderline) better lv design but the theme is tedious
Chuck Rock 1 no, these are awful
Chuck Rock II (this one is borderline) ^
James Pond II: Codename: Robocod (bad port) these are god awful
Sonic 3D Blast definitely better though it drags
Socket a little worse
Toki: Going Ape Spit fuck this game, it's a 2
Wolfchild definitely better. A good exm of the results of score inflation: this is exactly the sort of game I'd like to see at 5 but that would only happen if avg games were given a 4 or 3.
Zool: Ninja of the 'Nth' Dimension has very comparable flaws (NTSC), I'd give it a 4. PAL is better though, probably 6.
Wonder Boy: Monster Lair (good example of a game which is average) sure. Personally I hate these games but for others it's at least on par.
3 Ninja's Kick Back can't say since I've never been able to tolerate it beyond three minutes.
The Flintstones Have you finished this? It gets rather cheap towards the end, with a vertical jump in a rising lava segment that borders on broken. Does have some mildly pleasing variety early on, but I don't think it better than Taz and the music is certainly worse.
Garfield: Caught in the Act no idea. See 3 Ninjas.
High Seas Havok this game sucks. Worse than Taz.
Risky Woods smoother but duller.
Tinhead I hate this game, seriously, 2/10.
Bubsy "" "" "" "" "" "" "" "" "" "" "" "", 1/10.
The Jungle Book yeah, better by a point or two. Disappointing visuals though.

[NeoZeedeater]

What's with the Chuck Rock II hate in this thread? It's a solid platformer, and much improved over the first game.

Alien 3 being listed as mediocre saddens me more, though. It's not a title with mass appeal but it's an intense game of survival with awesome weapons, atmosphere, and one of Matt Furniss' best soundtracks. It's gets a bit repetitive by the end but that's my only real complaint.

[Wesker]

If you really want to see an abortion of a game involving this character, check the Game Gear Taz-Mania. The graphics "look" similar to the Mega Drive game but it is actually a completely different "trial and error" based game which is just atrocius.



The Mega Drive game at least is decent compared to this.

There's an interesting thing with this game. Three entirely different games were developed for each Sega platform of that time, and the Master System game, which was developed in Japan unlike the other two, is actually a fine game which looks worse but controls better than the Mega Drive game (and of course, the awful Game Gear game). It has a more refined gameplay to say it somehow.

[Christuserloeser]

Awesome ! I will definitely check out the Master System version. Looks rather solid in comparison. Thanks for the heads up!

[NeoZeedeater]

Yeah, the SMS Taz shown there (not Escape From Mars) plays nicely although it's kind of ugly with all its yellowness.

[Thenewguy]

Wow, you really do love this game don't you Starmist.

Anyway, I've already gone over a lot of this, even if we go along with the idea that the two games have the same amount of trial and error (which I think is a ridiculous statement anyway), as I've already said, in Hard Corps you can get lucky and dodge that stray bullet/charging enemy, you can just about save yourself with a sudden split second slide etc, if you get killed you think "damn I was unlucky" or "damn this is tough" in Tazmania you know that walking into an invisible bomb was not your fault, you know there was nothing you could possibly have done about it, and you know the designer has screwed you over, there's no getting lucky, you'd have to have just been randomily hopping through the stages to get past them (who does that?)

Going more into the "comparable trial and error" area, as I said I don't agree at all, you can get through a lot of Hard Corps by keeping your distance from the enemies and skidding, you can work out the attack pattern before you get killed that way, its not like you get to the boss, he charges you, you die, you get back to him, jump his charge, he fires, you die, you get back to him jump his charge skid though the shot etc etc, you can work out his whole attack pattern in the space of a continue or two (as I've stated before I did one whole final level of Hard Corps on my first time without using a continue simply by being careful and working out the attack pattern, where is the error in that trial and error?!?!)

Thirdly on the "trial and error", even when you know something you need to do on Hard Corps, the game still requires skill, you still get a sense of accomplishment when you destroy the enemy even if you know every action that takes place (heck sometimes it even makes you feel invincible). On Taz-Mania the hazards are pathetic, after you know about them they become trivial chores which barely create a blip on your radar, and give zero sense of accomplishment because they require no skill at all to pass.

Lastly, in closing. The trial and Error is a serious issue in Taz-Mania, but its far from being the only problem, remove it and the game would still suck, it would still control like crap, it would still have dodgy collision detection, it would still have absolutely appaling sound effects and music, crappy enemy designs, crappy level layouts, crappy boss fights etc etc etc. A lot of the games which were listed as mediocre earlier I play and think "well its polished enough, but the developers just didn't have that flair for gameplay and art design to make it that interesting", when I play Taz-Mania I don't even get angry, I just look at it in disbelief and try to work out how people who are clearly so inept at game design can be given a job in the business, and funding to make a game, I mean seriously, its an unfathomable mess, there's nothing even remotely fun about it, and its not simply boring or outshined by better games either, it noticeably unpleasant to play all the time, and it fails miserably at giving you any kind of incentive to wade through it either, all of this makes it a below 5/10 game.

Tbh I find both games a complete waste of time

Well I own over 300 16-bit games across the SNES, Genesis, and Amiga, and Hard Corps is easily in my top 10 games of that entire generation, I didn't own it at the time, first played it a few years ago, so there's zero nostalgia attachment, I was completely obsessed with it for months, getting all endings, and I still put it on on a semi-regular basis now, I muthuf#cking love that game.

[Wesker]

Yeah, the SMS Taz shown there (not Escape From Mars) plays nicely although it's kind of ugly with all its yellowness.

That's supposed to fit with the recurrent theme in the cartoon of the Tasmanian island being all yellowish. I think that aspect it's actually a little more faithful in this game that what the Mega Drive game does in that regard.

Escape from Mars on the Master System is just a straight TecToy conversion of the Game Gear Escape from Mars game, which is of course a better game than the horrid Game Gear Taz-Mania game (I don't get how Sega could let that crappy abomination to happen), but worse and sluggish gameplay wise compared with the Master System Taz-Mania game. It's also more close to the Mega Drive Escape from Mars original than this Master System version is to the Mega Drive Taz-Mania.

[Olls]

Well I own over 300 16-bit games across the SNES, Genesis, and Amiga, and Hard Corps is easily in my top 10 games of that entire generation, I didn't own it at the time, first played it a few years ago, so there's zero nostalgia attachment, I was completely obsessed with it for months, getting all endings, and I still put it on on a semi-regular basis now, I muthuf#cking love that game.

StarMist hates all games that require even a modicum of skill to complete.
There is no point arguing against that.

[gio]

If someone here, by chance, understand french, check this great video by the french avgn. (Or also this one by someone else.)

[Christuserloeser]

If someone here, by chance, understand french, check this great video by the french avgn. (Or also this one by someone else.)

"Los! Los! Spielen!" ROFLMAO!!!