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View Poll Results: Which was best?

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  • Playstation

    59 36.42%
  • Saturn

    67 41.36%
  • Nintendo 64

    36 22.22%
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Thread: 32/64 bit era: PS, Saturn or N64?

  1. #16
    Proud 16-bit War Veteran ESWAT Veteran David J.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeckoYamori
    I think the PC market started peaking over the console counterparts during that era :P
    I agree. I quit playing console games from 1996-2000, only because PC gaming reached it's peak and downfall during that time, and hasn't been the same since then. PC games started to look more impressive and better overall than console games for once!
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  2. #17
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16bitter
    We really are opposites on the Saturn/DC issue. I thought Dreamcast was the first Sega product since Genesis to really get things right from the corporate structure as well as being a piece of prime hardware at its release -- the Saturn I thought was sunk by the former and heavily flawed in the case of the latter (though with all these machines the former and later conflate at concept and base tech stage).

    I still believe that Sega's wounds were self-inflicted across the board with the Saturn, whereas the Dreamcast was both victim of unwarranted Sony zeitgeist and of past mistakes made with the Saturn and other hardware. Its death had little to do with the machine's failings, which I think were few to none, much unlike the Saturn.
    DC had the same problem 360 has now -- they kill off a console early to rush a new one to market, and expect people to just buy it. Saturn was the #1 console in Japan for quite a good length of time, but the more they talked about Katana/DC the more they hurt their own market. When Dreamcast was released, Saturn had been out a mere 4 years in Japan and still had quite the presence there, despite SoJ's determination to kill it. PS2 came out over 5 years after its predecessor, giving the Playstation time to, you know, breathe. Sega hurried this new console to market, and for what?

    It's true that there was only a little over 3 years between Master System and Mega Drive in the UK, but Sega Europe handled that properly by promising they were not killing off the Master System, and following through on that promise with SMS releases up to 1994. As a result, Sega Europe enjoyed two successful consoles consecutively. Sega Japan took this weird opposite approach with Dreamcast, making it clear that they were killing their current system immediately.

    I clearly remember seeing all the Dreamcast media come back from TGS '98 and just shaking my head.. We were supposed to get Virtua Fighter 3 for Saturn, but they canned it in favor of the "superior" DC port of 3tb, which was every bit as rushed as the original VF on Saturn, and was the sole game of interest at the Japanese launch. Did they expect their own customers would just come back for more after being insulted? VF1 had been rushed on Saturn, but the game couldn't have been done on Mega Drive, which didn't have much of a userbase in Japan anyway. VF3 could certainly have been done on Saturn, which had the userbase; the game was supposed to be coming for Saturn, only for Sega to can it in favor of the DC version. Sega was basically saying "we're not bringing this out because we want to make you buy a new system for it". And they thought they could get away with it because the VF series had been a sensation in Japan.

    But even despite all that cause for negative sentiment, a poll (yes there was a poll) showed that the majority of attendees at TGS '98 came mainly to get a look at Sega's new system. But they totally squandered that interest, as everyone came back with bad taste in their mouths after seeing such disappointing arcade ports and a terrible release calendar. Sega blew it with such a lackluster showing.

    Not to mention with third parties. Third parties making games for Saturn, blindsided by Sega's sudden and early dropping of support, coupled with the lack of Dreamcast SDK's in the preliminary period... well let's just say that they weren't exactly enthused.

    As for the US specifically.. Sega of America didn't come out with a single console game from May 1998 until 9-9-99. Not one release. When they didn't even bother doing games anymore, that really soured me on their upcoming system -- 15 months is a long time for ZERO games. And I should just lap it up? I know Saturn wasn't exactly popular in this country, but neither was Master System, and SoA didn't take a huge dump on SMS like that. No games doesn't sit well with me.

    Like I said, Dreamcast eventually won me over by having good games. I definitely agree with the sentiments that it was a well-designed piece of hardware and that it shouldn't have been dropped when it was. But given the system's inception it almost seemed like dumping the system early was their plan from the start.

    I don't know how you could do that. The N64's overall library was hurting next to Saturn and Playstation's, but it blows away the Jag and 3DO.
    I wouldn't rank N64 below those systems, but definitely closer to them than Playstation. 3DO and Jaguar did have a few good games, you know.

  3. #18
    Road Rasher Dartagnan1083's Avatar
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    Goldeneye is overrated.
    Deathmatching was fun, but somehow the quality of the game itself didn't seem all that special to me.

    Good for its time, but its reputation is overtly bloated to me.

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  4. #19
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartagnan1083
    Goldeneye is overrated.
    Deathmatching was fun, but somehow the quality of the game itself didn't seem all that special to me.

    Good for its time, but its reputation is overtly bloated to me.
    I agree. Especially having played Alien vs. Predator on Jaguar two years prior, and Powerslave on Saturn the previous year. Disruptor on PSX was pretty good as well.

  5. #20
    Master of Shinobi ary incorparated's Avatar
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    Saturn was great but as a sega fan i have to admit i spend more tim playing n64,But i like the saturn more now.saturn had some pretty damn good graphics for 32 bit ,never saw psx fix that,anybody ever seen the shenmue Beta former called virtua fighter RPG or panzer dragoon sag,radiant silvergun very solid also street fighter and capcom games where better on saturn very sharp and no blurry graphics like psx and no small characters.
    1 saturn
    2 n64
    3 psx

    I hated the european covers becuase they where very fragile and i hated DC for its covers one fall and its broke.

  6. #21
    Super Robot Raging in the Streets Obviously's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor
    Quote Originally Posted by Dartagnan1083
    Goldeneye is overrated.
    Deathmatching was fun, but somehow the quality of the game itself didn't seem all that special to me.

    Good for its time, but its reputation is overtly bloated to me.
    I agree. Especially having played Alien vs. Predator on Jaguar two years prior, and Powerslave on Saturn the previous year. Disruptor on PSX was pretty good as well.
    Alien vs Predator on the Jaguar is so underrated that it's a crime.

  7. #22
    Banned by Administrators 16bitter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor
    Quote Originally Posted by 16bitter
    We really are opposites on the Saturn/DC issue. I thought Dreamcast was the first Sega product since Genesis to really get things right from the corporate structure as well as being a piece of prime hardware at its release -- the Saturn I thought was sunk by the former and heavily flawed in the case of the latter (though with all these machines the former and later conflate at concept and base tech stage).

    I still believe that Sega's wounds were self-inflicted across the board with the Saturn, whereas the Dreamcast was both victim of unwarranted Sony zeitgeist and of past mistakes made with the Saturn and other hardware. Its death had little to do with the machine's failings, which I think were few to none, much unlike the Saturn.
    DC had the same problem 360 has now -- they kill off a console early to rush a new one to market, and expect people to just buy it. Saturn was the #1 console in Japan for quite a good length of time, but the more they talked about Katana/DC the more they hurt their own market. When Dreamcast was released, Saturn had been out a mere 4 years in Japan and still had quite the presence there, despite SoJ's determination to kill it. PS2 came out over 5 years after its predecessor, giving the Playstation time to, you know, breathe. Sega hurried this new console to market, and for what?
    I don't think they had the cash reserves to play wait and see. Rushing it was pragmatic, just as it is with the 360 -- Microsoft isn't desperate, unlike Sega, but they are aggressive.

    I'm not impressed by the 360, but it could still bite Sony in the ass if the PS3 can't look obviously better.

    The Dreamcast on the other hand was a striking step up from anything on the market back then. With enough money, Sega could have carved up nice market share with that system -- take their cash resveres and brand recognition from the Genesis era and put them behind the DC...who knows.

    I don't think the DC was "rushed" in the sense that it was unbderpowered or the market wasn't ready at all. It was both a prime piece of hardware and a market that was triring of 32/64-bit.

    It's true that there was only a little over 3 years between Master System and Mega Drive in the UK, but Sega Europe handled that properly by promising they were not killing off the Master System, and following through on that promise with SMS releases up to 1994. As a result, Sega Europe enjoyed two successful consoles consecutively. Sega Japan took this weird opposite approach with Dreamcast, making it clear that they were killing their current system immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor
    I clearly remember seeing all the Dreamcast media come back from TGS '98 and just shaking my head.. We were supposed to get Virtua Fighter 3 for Saturn, but they canned it in favor of the "superior" DC port of 3tb, which was every bit as rushed as the original VF on Saturn, and was the sole game of interest at the Japanese launch. Did they expect their own customers would just come back for more after being insulted? VF1 had been rushed on Saturn, but the game couldn't have been done on Mega Drive, which didn't have much of a userbase in Japan anyway. VF3 could certainly have been done on Saturn,
    X-Men Children of the Atom could have been done on Genesis, but what exactly would that have meant?

    The Saturn was not in the least up to doing VF3 justice, and admittedly the rushed port on DC didn't accomplish that either. But if the DC didn't do it -- it could have,m make no mistake -- what chance did the Saturn have? I don't want to imagine how bad that wuld have looked.

    Part of the point of VF3 was its graphical fidelity -- how would this have been acgieved on the Saturn? An add-on? I think we all saw where that got Sega previously, and that was in regards to a system that was by all accounts (save Japan's, on merely an insular market level) a great success.

    which had the userbase; the game was supposed to be coming for Saturn, only for Sega to can it in favor of the DC version. Sega was basically saying "we're not bringing this out because we want to make you buy a new system for it". And they thought they could get away with it because the VF series had been a sensation in Japan.

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor
    Not to mention with third parties. Third parties making games for Saturn, blindsided by Sega's sudden and early dropping of support, coupled with the lack of Dreamcast SDK's in the preliminary period... well let's just say that they weren't exactly enthused.
    Were there many devs enthused by the Saturns kits and base architecture? No. Dreamcast was a respense and massive improvment in hardware design over the Saturn.

    And, unlike the Saturn, it was obviously a beast unmatched by anything else at home during its first year.

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor
    As for the US specifically.. Sega of America didn't come out with a single console game from May 1998 until 9-9-99.
    Why not just import?

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor
    But even despite all that cause for negative sentiment, a poll (yes there was a poll) showed that the majority of attendees at TGS '98 came mainly to get a look at Sega's new system. But they totally squandered that interest, as everyone came back with bad taste in their mouths after seeing such disappointing arcade ports and a terrible release calendar. Sega blew it with such a lackluster showing.
    The Dc was a hot release in Japan due to VF3TB. It sold on the strenfgth of one game, much like the Saturn's launch.

    As far as bad impressions, there's no way the Dreamcast did as badly in Japan out of the gate as the Saturn did here. From a graphical standpoint alone it was obvious it was a far better system out of the gate than its predecessor.

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor
    Like I said, Dreamcast eventually won me over by having good games. I definitely agree with the sentiments that it was a well-designed piece of hardware and that it shouldn't have been dropped when it was. But given the system's inception it almost seemed like dumping the system early was their plan from the start.
    The question is, did they have a choice? I don't think so. They bled themselves dry long before the Dreamcast, and only a miracle would have kept them in the hardware business.

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor
    I wouldn't rank N64 below those systems, but definitely closer to them than Playstation.
    I don't see how you could rank iit anywhere near those systems. Would I rank it with the PS? No. But that was never the contention, nor the original argument from your side against the N64.

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor
    3DO and Jaguar did have a few good games, you know.
    A few good games. Sure. But anything like Mario 64? Wave Race? Pilot Wings? Zelda?

    No. Not even close.

    The N64 is best described as an oddity unto itself -- a successful system made so mainly by first party support. The reason it worked (at least partially)? Because of how stellar many of those releases were.

  8. #23
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16bitter
    The Saturn was not in the least up to doing VF3 justice, and admittedly the rushed port on DC didn't accomplish that either. But if the DC didn't do it -- it could have,m make no mistake -- what chance did the Saturn have? I don't want to imagine how bad that wuld have looked.

    Part of the point of VF3 was its graphical fidelity -- how would this have been acgieved on the Saturn? An add-on? I think we all saw where that got Sega previously, and that was in regards to a system that was by all accounts (save Japan's, on merely an insular market level) a great success.
    AM2 completed a Saturn port of Virtua Fighter 3 -- twice, the first being rejected by Sega due to its graphics not being up to par. The second was canned so as not to hurt sales of the DC port. The port didn't use any sort of add-on.

    I'm sure it wouldn't have been 100% arcade perfect, but judging from games like Digital Dance Mix and Last Bronx, it could've been pretty damn good.

    Were there many devs enthused by the Saturns kits and base architecture? No. Dreamcast was a respense and massive improvment in hardware design over the Saturn.
    True. But it also gave the appearance that Sega had no intentions of standing behind their consoles. To many, Sega's quick abandonment of Saturn for DC signalled that the same would happen to the latter. And, ultimately, it did.

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor
    As for the US specifically.. Sega of America didn't come out with a single console game from May 1998 until 9-9-99.
    Why not just import?
    For Saturn? I did, but imports were drying up due to the DC.

    Or did you mean import a DC system? That was uber pricey as I recall, and for the first 8 months or so it really had very little software.

    The Dc was a hot release in Japan due to VF3TB. It sold on the strenfgth of one game, much like the Saturn's launch.
    DC had a lot of buzz in Japan around its debut, but after launch, it sold miserably. And its launch was not nearly as successful as Saturn's Japan launch, or DC's US launch.

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor
    I wouldn't rank N64 below those systems, but definitely closer to them than Playstation.
    I don't see how you could rank iit anywhere near those systems. Would I rank it with the PS? No. But that was never the contention, nor the original argument from your side against the N64.

    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor
    3DO and Jaguar did have a few good games, you know.
    A few good games. Sure. But anything like Mario 64? Wave Race? Pilot Wings? Zelda?

    No. Not even close.
    Yeah, but.. that's still only a few good games.

    We went through N64 on the old board (I don't remember if you were part of that). I only consider around 18-20 N64 games, max, to be worth owning. Jaguar, around 14-16.

  9. #24
    Master of Shinobi ary incorparated's Avatar
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    Yessir alien vs predator is underrated,i like the game to.But hey i like Metal head to,so maybe im al the way wrong.I like metal head for its music and a bit for its graphics,i bought it for 50 cents so cant complain.

  10. #25
    Master of Shinobi ary incorparated's Avatar
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    16 bitter you know i was far way more pleased by the graphics on saturn then a playstation while playstation used much fmv,s and pictures in the background obviously notable like in yes final fantsay 7,im not a psx hater but it is a media catcher,but i sertainly dare to say that shining force 3 or a dark savior looked better the the so blewn upp final fantasy 7 in graphics then,heres an exemple all the fanboys say time to time,look at those renditions in final fantasy look at those textures,all that Bulshit,Dark savior you actually have a camera and that show yess that scaling and rotation in backgrounds is something that was possible that time duhhh,whil theres no camrapoint in FF7 on the map youre walking noo hell its one big Video or photo,what the hell,ugly fatt stuffed characters,actually there are quit nice i have to admit.FF7 vs Dark savior,Shining force 3,Dragon force Garndia and many other alber odeysy,boom who holds the crown now in figurely,boom nights for its graphics on topp of the Fanboystation,and a panzer dragoon saga to cut its herdwared trout and radiant silvergun for the sony psx fans to kill all of it in graphics,WTF saturns lacks 3d graphics where did that came upp they are almost arcade dedicated aldo it was a last minute option they please me somethimes more then ds dirty dwarves and gameplay music hell yeah saturn is much to underrated it does great graphics play vf megamix,radiant silvergun 1 meter distance from the screen no disturbing blocks,yess psx driver etc man do they hurt the big polygons yes they dissapeared.osx vs saturn is a notheless discusion its about uppinions and about preaching to the choir side and discriminmating saturn for graphics it does them hell good and from that point on poeple try to bring it down but actually have no good arguments for to say that its shit.Point ......

  11. #26
    Master of Shinobi ary incorparated's Avatar
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    J factor youre the rigtest one here n64 ruled i dare to say as a sega fan.did psx had zelda oot no,for my score F zero,and some yap game like the ones of treasure misschief makers and one space harier kind of,fighters destiny and goldeneye resident evil 2 inc movie sequence,ooh yeah i vind resi looking better on saturn,did you see the elbows of jill on psx yes they are bucky on saturn just as it suposes just good,and the psx is darker as usually+plus every capcom fighter on saturn is better then the ones of its counter console.Some people(fanboys)saying mario 64 and turok 2 looked ugly compared to psx those hooks,please let those dude go F...ck emselfs or bare at WOW.thats those dumb reactions over an over aggain,not one psx title boasted Turok 2 thats a obvious fast and mario 64 is way to colourfull for oll psx,the tryd to acomplish with crash but didnt succeed,goldeneye eh eh no psx,F zero has a awesome heavy metal score witch automaticly envites ary,none psx game intrested me as much as f zero ooh yeah the sound from PD and f zero cartridge ehh better then psx,and never heard such good stuf on psx sorry,im not a fanboy but somthimes anti media lovers like psx,ps2 is awsome tough.

  12. #27
    Proud 16-bit War Veteran ESWAT Veteran David J.'s Avatar
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    I've maybe spent like 3 hours with an N64. I played a tad of Star Fox, Mario 64, Diddy Kong racing, NFL something or another, and Goldeneye. Nothing too impressive.
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  13. #28
    Master of Shinobi ary incorparated's Avatar
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    yes some stuf too impressive i agree as a sega fan,F zero or turok back then had me busy for longer then those 3 hours hell yeah,now its not as impressive as then.but still goldeneye is a great game esspeciale sinds n64 had the 4 controler ports very satisfieng and the two or treasure games where great,smah bros back then pDark Turok 2,beetle adventure racin hell much multiplayer fun,ohhhyeah the awseome castelvania games.Psx graphics better dumbest thing ever heard there a obvious diffrents between a ful powered 64 bit console and psx,Tomorrow never died had some of the best psx graphics but look at piercers eyebrow wehn doing te facial motion youlle see ugly blocks and his eyebrow stucked to his bottom,Yuck goldeneye was so damn sweet had everything a bond game needed,best bond game ever.I find saturn really look ways nicer then psx,a smart way to muffle the pixels away is in PD 2,it doesnt look to sahbby al the times but yeah no blocks in tha face Ds is 64 bit i find saturn somethimes better looking even then n64,hmm Fighters megamix beeing a older game looking on par wtih some n64 games.Oooh yeah It took namco 3 years later to beat VF in graphics,tekken 1 sucked in that way tekken 2 wasnt any good,tekken 3 yay finally beat VF 2 to its point,and then even ium doubting 95 vs 98 obvious and also bloody roar came out in 98 and letted me see how butt ugly the graphics where at the begining,god damn what but ugly any Saturn fighting game surpasses it almost any 3d fighter.Capcom snk was released on psx damn that one looked ass ugly it should have sticked just with the DC on that it was awsome,ill bett that saturn actually could have deliverd it kind of nicely,guardian heroes uses transparancies all over tha place,i think saturn could have handled transparancies in some 2d fighting games,dunno if they did?.

  14. #29
    Super Robot Raging in the Streets Obviously's Avatar
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    The only games I played more than a few minutes were Goldeneye, Starfox, and Super Smash Bros. There wasn't enough drop dead awesome software for the N64 to ever make me want to buy one.

  15. #30
    Master of Shinobi ary incorparated's Avatar
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    that could be,i love it a bit,now its been faded away in my mind,but the games atracked me zelda oot,Turok 2 hell fun,i i like it that nintendo really had the graphical overhead the and actually hardware matic the total control back in 96.4 players and f zero,f zero has some of the nicest music ever in a video game snaring hard speed metall.I like it,cant help it if you dont thats just youre uppinion probably didnt had the games that suted you.I hated hybrid heaven i trown that one away.

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