32/64 bit era: PS, Saturn or N64?

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I find the Saturn and Sega CD solution much more elegant if you ask me. You don't need to buy a memory card right off the bat if you want to save games. You're system can save them on it's own. However if you need more space or a means to transport data, you can buy a memory card. Not everyone needs the 8000 blocks the Saturns Memory card gives. For many the internal memory is more than enough. Considering this solution is what modern systems do I'd say that's proof that it wasn't a bad idea.

The average Saturn game I own uses around 6-16 blocks of space. The only ones that take up more than that are NiGHTs and Virtua Fighter 2 last I checked.

[StarMist]

There is only one PS game/program that can use an entire card, nothing else even comes close(you can fit a lot of games on the awesome PS memory cards), and that would be RPG Maker(which it requires alot of mapping, and a insane amount of text to fill a card).

Zoltor, I'm not guessing with Lagnacure. I still own that piece of crap, I still remember how long it took to save as it slowly filled all 15 blocks, and I can still just pick up the case, flip it over, and read that it takes 15 blocks to save. Civilisation certainly occupied the majority of the card as well.

Since trekkiesunite is here I might as well suggest Legend of Dragoon as a 2 block game (I long since parted with it and deleted the saves).

[Zoltor]

I find the Saturn and Sega CD solution much more elegant if you ask me. You don't need to buy a memory card right off the bat if you want to save games. You're system can save them on it's own. However if you need more space or a means to transport data, you can buy a memory card. Not everyone needs the 8000 blocks the Saturns Memory card gives. For many the internal memory is more than enough. Considering this solution is what modern systems do I'd say that's proof that it wasn't a bad idea.

The average Saturn game I own uses around 6-16 blocks of space. The only ones that take up more than that are NiGHTs and Virtua Fighter 2 last I checked.

Saving on a system sucks plain and simple, elegant my ass lol. It's a hassle to say the least, a step backwards in usefulness/versatility, and security.

[Zoltor]

Zoltor, I'm not guessing with Lagnacure. I still own that piece of crap, I still remember how long it took to save as it slowly filled all 15 blocks, and I can still just pick up the case, flip it over, and read that it takes 15 blocks to save. Civilisation certainly occupied the majority of the card as well.

Since trekkiesunite is here I might as well suggest Legend of Dragoon as a 2 block game (I long since parted with it and deleted the saves).

Lagnacure?

Yea, if I recall, Legend of Dragoon is a 2 block game, as is the before mentionions DW 7(which is insane, because that game is huge, and the amount of stuff it needs to save is insane).

[Kogen]

I played PS1 the most, had the most fun with N64, and just got a Saturn last year. Upon consideration, Saturn is the best, N64 was COOL AT THE TIME, and PS1 was just not very good.

The only reason Saturn is even that good is the abundance of arcade ports. It is lacking in original titles. PS1 is fuzzy poop with bad framerates and N64 is blurry textures with a broken controller design.

[kool kitty89]

I find the Saturn and Sega CD solution much more elegant if you ask me. You don't need to buy a memory card right off the bat if you want to save games. You're system can save them on it's own. However if you need more space or a means to transport data, you can buy a memory card. Not everyone needs the 8000 blocks the Saturns Memory card gives. For many the internal memory is more than enough. Considering this solution is what modern systems do I'd say that's proof that it wasn't a bad idea.

The average Saturn game I own uses around 6-16 blocks of space. The only ones that take up more than that are NiGHTs and Virtua Fighter 2 last I checked.

The PS1 (and PS2) route with memory cards was far, far more cost effective though (from the standpoint of using compact, low-cost memory card PCBs, to cheap flash memory -vs SRAM+battery- etc -albeit the latter issues doesn't so much apply to the MCD since flash memory was still rather exotic when it was new -so, had it used memory cards as standard, it would have needed to take the SRAM route too, like the N64 controller Pak -which would still arguably be a much better route than the limited onboard RAM and optional expensive RAM Cart situation -using simple 32kx8-bit SRAM+battery on small cards would have made sense for the time)

I can certainly see the argument for convenience of built-in storage, but with the severe limitations of the internal SRAM of the Saturn and MCD and (especially) the battery life and/or recharching limitations, I'd take the PSX's route any day in terms of practicality (let alone the other aspects that are attractive from a business perspective).

And on the complaint of not being able to save out of the box, that's not a flaw in the use memory cards, but just a marketing choice on Sony's part. (not packing in a memory cart standard) And IMO, that IS a much more legitimate complaint which would apply to any system using interchangeable/removable storage media. (likewise, any games using tons of memory card space -like an entire card's worth- can be criticized for not including a memory card with the game)

[TVC 15]

Its a nice little bonus having the built in memory, and its not quite as paltry as that available in the MegaCD, but still Sega could have cut costs with external memory cards and made a much more elegant system for upgrading the ram, perhaps having a wider 32-Bit bus for both external ram and the vcd expansion card. Ram would have been much more effective.

I still don't get why they didn't cost consolidate some aspects for the Saturn for the western audiences, whilst still keeping the same basic architecture, the whole secondary bus interface for the MPEG/VCD card for example could have been completely cut out for later revisions. They already started skimping on packaging size and material for some of the later models why not cut out some other parts? Or at least just have one bloody expansion.



Anyway, Saturn FTW!

[sheath]

Yeah, the only way I can slightly see internal save memory as inconvenient is if I had Starmist's problem of too many games that A) Won't save directly to a RAM cart, and B) need most of the internal save memory. My experience with the Saturn and Sega CD was mostly the opposite though, only a handful of games needed me to swap out all of my saves to be able to use it, otherwise I could keep 10+ saves in there at all times and just back up the saves for games I wasn't playing.

The only way the PS1 can be this convenient is with an actual PS1 and two multi-page memory cards. On a PS2 you're screwed unless you labeled all of your cards. Same goes for the Dreamcast. But at least I can swap out VMUs with my butt firmly planted in the couch while I'm looking for where I saved that game.

[Thenewguy]

Great Sheath resurrects yet another Saturn fanboy thread -_-

Playstation arguably doesn't have all the best games in every genre, but is by far the best all rounder, and is the only console of the three without glaring omissions in its library, N64 sucks for Fighting games and RPGs (though there are a handfull of good ones), and the Saturn sucks for racing games and platforming (though there are a handful of good ones).

Playstation has high quality titles across the whole spectrum.

Though it has genre weaknesses N64 has arguably the best platform games, and first person shooters, it also draws with Playstation with racing games, having a very different type of library (effectively going up against PS1's realistic, and arcade racers with fantasy/Sci -Fi racers and strong multiplayer support).

Saturn arguably has the best fighting game library, mainly due to its huge numbers of superior 2D Capcom and SNK ports, its 3D fighting library is harder to compare with Playstation as they both have a good number of titles, but the system at least holds its own here pretty well too, it draws with Playstation in the scrolling shmup category with its strengths being more focussed on the "Bullet Hell" style of shooter, whilst Playstation's shooters tend to be more methodical, and (yeah I'm going to say it) inventive, Playstation scrolling shooters tend to be more tactical, whilst Saturn ones are more twitch orientated.

Outside of those 2 genres the Saturn is effectively the poor man's Playstation, all the same styles of games but fewer in number and lower in quality, that generation didn't even start to get good until late 1997 and the Saturn support was already starting to wane around that time.

If I had to get rid of 1? definitely the Saturn as its the most redundant, most of its library can easily be replaced with Playstation games of similar or higher quality, whilst N64 games are distinctive and unique.

-----------------------------------------

Saturn is a lot like the Atari 7800 really, when Nintendo was bringing out Super Mario Bros and Zelda Atari were going "Look! we have a great port of Asteroids! we have Donkey Kong!" and while Sony were shouting "3D!!!" and "Next Gen!!" Saturn were bringing out a bunch of SNES and Mega Drive style games with better graphics

Also, reply all you want, I'm not coming back to this thread anyway, I've learnt from my mistakes, there's no point in arguing against Sega on a Sega forum, its just time wasting.

[sheath]

Great, address me, state your opinion as fact, and then discourage replies. That's mature.

We have gone round and round on this though. I really don't think ten games that play virtually the same is better than five that play different and more polished. I think that arguably is the case with PS1 vs Saturn Racers in particular. This is especially true since the PS1's extra games in any genre did not come out at once, or even during the Saturn's lifetime, and so I compare about half of them to the Dreamcast library rather than the Saturn.

Similarly, more cars and tracks doesn't make a racer better, just more drawn out and typically less nuanced in individual car physics.

Eh, I'm sick of popular system fans actually believing that their preferences are better reasoned than mine. Maybe I'll go over to an RPG thread and try to argue that RPGs are boring and slow because I don't like them, then call everybody who doesn't agree with me a fanboy.

[Da_Shocker]

[j_factor]

I find the Saturn and Sega CD solution much more elegant if you ask me. You don't need to buy a memory card right off the bat if you want to save games. You're system can save them on it's own. However if you need more space or a means to transport data, you can buy a memory card. Not everyone needs the 8000 blocks the Saturns Memory card gives. For many the internal memory is more than enough. Considering this solution is what modern systems do I'd say that's proof that it wasn't a bad idea.

Agreed. I also never liked how the Playstation memory cards are divided into so few "blocks". It's inefficient.

[Zoltor]

Agreed. I also never liked how the Playstation memory cards are divided into so few "blocks". It's inefficient.

The standad PS memory card could store atleast a dozen game, almost nomatter how big the game is, so how is it handled worse then some crappy internal memory, that depending on what games you play, you pay only fit a few game's saves. Each block on a the playstation card goes a hell of a lot farther then any of Sega's memorory devices(rather internal memory or when sega came out with their own memory cards).

Almost any game nomatter the size, uses only 1-2 blocks, where Sega's save file handling rusuilts in using a ton of blocks. When all is said, and dond, whithout counting certion games that are insane for both system chains, Sony by far has the more efficient save file handling.

[sheath]

I am pretty sure that PS1 sports games frequently required their own memory card.

[Zoltor]

I am pretty sure that PS1 sports games frequently required their own memory card.

Not like anyone really played sports games from the PS1 era onward, but I find that hard to believe, wtf could they gossibly be wasting what is it like 24 blocks on? Can I have a confirmation on this, and a link leading to a place verifying it?