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Thread: GUIDE: Telling apart good Genesis 1s and Genesis 2s from bad ones.

  1. #751
    Hero of Algol kool kitty89's Avatar
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    I already messed with it before and I didn't want to bothign doing somethign I might damage it with. I've got space consoles that have good RF anyway.

    And hell, that one console with the bad caps (apparently) and odd sound via RF on most TVS is perfect for playing via RF on our family TV which somehow addressed the sound problem via RF. (unless I want to use the sega CD too, but I'd rather keep that in my room anyway, the audio via RF and crashing sega CD with poping in the headphone jack audio at low volume levels are the only tangible problems on that console too, but again, I suspect the caps are dying) Having a generic RCA RF lead is rather convenient for hooking it up only occassionally.

    It's my first VA3 model 1 with the weird RF audio and crashing CD, and my 2nd that has the weaker RF (not only the weird smearing and finicky switch, but a weaker signal too and truly terrible if a cheap RCA cable is used in place of a proper RF rated cable or switchbox -using an adaptor on the Genesis's end and a coaxial cable for a connection would be at least as good as a decent auto switchbox though -which is also the best route for the 2600 Jr and 7800)

    I've also got a VA6 (maybe 6.8 -no HDG or EXT port) and VA5/6 (HDG+EXT+TMSS) that are fine in all regards, the only down side is TMSS if that bothers you or you want to play some of the few unlicensed non TMSS compatible games. (I have a game genie too though)
    I'm leaning toward the EXT less one for modding due to the convenient sport for an s-video jack. (I don't think I'll be rewiring an EXT port as a custom AV port as I considered earlier) I still need a femal S-video jack and they don't seem to have those at radio shack, and they're not very cheap or common on ebay or digikey from what I see. (I haven't bought from digikey before either, and I'm not quite sure on their policies for small orders -particularly shipping)

    THat and I've got to find my good fine silver bearing rosin core solder again, and probably need a finer tip for the soldering iron I've been using. (probably not for putting the S-video amp together)
    Hell, your composite mod wouldn't even require the s-video jack, just the cap+resistor and soldering supplies. (at least if I went for the AV port rather than a separate composite RCA port)

    Actually, we might have a trashed video card with s-video out I could canibalize.
    6 days older than SEGA Genesis
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

  2. #752
    18daysolderthansms Outrunner Devon's Avatar
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    i just got a surprise ebay VA3 model 2, its made in china and has the ka2195d but really video quality is good sharp and ican't tell a difference from the older model 1s 1145
    and it sounds great too, i think if your using RF all the video encoders look about the same

  3. #753
    Creator of the Mega Amp Raging in the Streets Ace's Avatar
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    With RF, the only difference is that consoles with the KA2195D will have vertical bars(most noticeable on vivid colors and anything white) and some Genesis Model 1s with the CXA1145 will have rainbow banding. I can't really say for sure if the latter is true because I don't use RF on my Genesis Model 1, but it might be possible as the Composite signal coming off the CXA1145 is what's used to produce the video in RF.

    In Composite, though, the difference between the encoders is noticeable, and it goes as follows:

    -CXA1145: Nice vivid colors, but slightly blurry
    -CXA1645: Very bright, colorful and sharp(exception is my VA3 Genesis 2, where the CXA1645 has excessive edge pixellation and vertical bars)
    -MB3514: Very vivid colors, sharp, but image is slightly darker than usual
    -KA2195D: Dull colors on some systems, VERY HEAVY edge pixellation on most systems, vertical bars

    Does Sony still produce the CXA1145? If they do, someone should buy a huge batch and sell them to Genesis 2 owners unfortunate enough to have a KA2195D in their system.
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  4. #754
    Hero of Algol kool kitty89's Avatar
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    All my CXA1145 consoles have vertical bars, as do both of my ~1989/1990 NESs in some cases, it's the same thing as edge pixelization and dot crawl, luma artifacts (turn off color and it's still there). And on all my TVs unless sharpness is turned down and/or filtering enabled. With blurring, the NES loses it entirely and also loses most dot crawl in general. (including the awful diagonal jagged scrolling dot effect)

    I'm not sure if the KA2195D would be any worse though, but the model 2 (VA0) with a CXA1145 is slightly worse and much more saturated as I've said.

    It's the same for RF and composite video, RF only adds a little noise/static to the image (very dependent on the console and the TV used, but in some cases it's rather comparable to the RF interference in the NES or SNES -but those consoles are far more consistent and less sensitive to bad RF cables or TVs with poor fine tuning).


    Of course, the possibility to mod for S-video or improved composite on the CXA1145 is significant and should reduce or eliminate the problems. (eliminate the vertical bars/dot crawl for sure with S-video, as luma should be pure)
    6 days older than SEGA Genesis
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

  5. #755
    Mr. Stranger Death Adder's minion
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    What is the difference between the Pal Megadrive and Pal Asian Megadrive? Like can i play most of my imports on the Pal Asian model?

  6. #756
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    For the most part, you could. I think some PAL games require a European MegaDrive and will not play on Asian PAL MegaDrives. Don't take my word for it, though, as I don't know much about PAL MegaDrives. But I will tell you this: an Asian PAL MegaDrive uses a Japanese MegaDrive shell and has the hookups exactly like a US Genesis in this order from left to right: EXT port, channel select, RF out, Multi-A/V out, power supply input. A Japanese MegaDrive will have in this order from left to right: EXT port, Multi-A/V out, power supply input. If you want a PAL MegaDrive, the Asian PAL MegaDrive would be a good choice. It's a European MegaDrive at the base except for two differences:

    1) It's got a Japanese MegaDrive shell
    2) The region setting is set to JAP, not US like European MegaDrives
    HATES ATGAMES WITH A PASSION


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  7. #757
    18daysolderthansms Outrunner Devon's Avatar
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    yeah i really like my new VA3 model 2, i compared it to my friends VA3 model 2 with cxa1645 and my ka2195d had noticeably way better video and it was sharper.

  8. #758
    Creator of the Mega Amp Raging in the Streets Ace's Avatar
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    Ugh... your posts about the KA2195D make me sick. Please... stop. Just stop.
    HATES ATGAMES WITH A PASSION


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  9. #759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace View Post


    Ugh... your posts about the KA2195D make me sick. Please... stop. Just stop.

  10. #760
    18daysolderthansms Outrunner Devon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robivy64 View Post
    Right on man you tell um!

  11. #761
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    Devon, that's enough! This has gone on for long enough, I've had it! STOP POSTING BULLSHIT ABOUT THE KA2195D IN THIS THREAD!

    I hate to put up posts like this, but when something really starts to get on my nerves, I'll blow, and I'm not afraid to express my discontent when something gets on my nerves.
    Last edited by Ace; 08-06-2010 at 10:35 PM.
    HATES ATGAMES WITH A PASSION


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  12. #762
    18daysolderthansms Outrunner Devon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace View Post
    Devon, that's enough! This has gone on for long enough, I've had it! STOP POSTING BULLSHIT ABOUT THE KA2195D IN THIS THREAD!

    I hate to put up posts like this, but when something really starts to get on my nerves, I'll blow, and I'm not afraid to express my discontent when something gets on my nerves.
    Okay i'll stop posting crap about it however, when you read the first page of the thread you cut the chip down so bad when many others have said its not that terrible, and honestly no bullshit it looks better on my older small tv, it has sharper video then my model 1s, what i don't like is your attitude how terrible it is, if you took more a view that while its not the best chip it still has a few merits, if you posting style was more like "this chip is not the best it has more pixalated muddy video then the other encoders" that would be better instead you seem to condem this chip and use strong words to make it sound worse then it really is, again its just an encoder, nothing to get angry about, its provided millions of hours of trouble free fun for many familys.

  13. #763
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    Speaking of the KA2195D, how does it look through RGB? I know it doesn't look all that great through composite, but I'm not sure anyone's said anything about how it looks in RGB.

  14. #764
    Hero of Algol kool kitty89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApolloBoy View Post
    Speaking of the KA2195D, how does it look through RGB? I know it doesn't look all that great through composite, but I'm not sure anyone's said anything about how it looks in RGB.
    RGB wouldn't matter, it's the native output and should be similar regardless. The only issue there is varying amount of filtering on the RGB signals depending on the MD revision (I think) with a moderately softer or sharper image. The encoder used to pass through the RGB signals might have some impact on that, but it really shouldn't be a huge factor.
    One other varying factor for RGB is the sync signal being weak or not properly buffered along with the composite video signal for SCART cables. If the sync signal is weak I may contribute to vertical lines in the video on some TVs or not display at all in some cases. (evildragon can't get his HDTV to work with his 32x's RGB with a YUV adapter, though the genesis is fine)


    And Ace, I think it's been established that there are notable cases of the KA2195D's stock composite output being superior to CXA1145 and CXA1645 video on some model 2s, but it's dependent on the consoles compared and the TVs used.
    It was certainly the case for Betawoof's VA3 model 2s with CXA1145, CXA1645, and KA2195 (don't recall if he ever got that VA4 to compare).
    Though he also clearly stated that his model 1s with CXA1145s output nicer video than any of those on his TVs. (and I can confirm that my model 1s have brighter and clearer video than the VA0 model 2 I've tested)
    There's also cases of the 32x having significant edge pixelization/vertical lines (dot craw) on certain TVs worse than normal Genesis video.

    I really wish I had more models to compare for myself.
    6 days older than SEGA Genesis
    -------------
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

  15. #765
    Creator of the Mega Amp Raging in the Streets Ace's Avatar
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    Never tried the RGB on the KA2195D, but I'd assume judging by the quality of the Composite using a 32X on a Genesis with a KA2195D, there should be none of those vertical lines you get with Composite video off a Genesis with a KA2195D without using a 32X. I'd say you'd be fine using RGB off the KA2195D. Just don't use Composite, it looks bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devon View Post
    Okay i'll stop posting crap about it however, when you read the first page of the thread you cut the chip down so bad when many others have said its not that terrible, and honestly no bullshit it looks better on my older small tv, it has sharper video then my model 1s, what i don't like is your attitude how terrible it is, if you took more a view that while its not the best chip it still has a few merits, if you posting style was more like "this chip is not the best it has more pixalated muddy video then the other encoders" that would be better instead you seem to condem this chip and use strong words to make it sound worse then it really is, again its just an encoder, nothing to get angry about, its provided millions of hours of trouble free fun for many familys.
    Okay Devon, here's the thing: I am VERY harsh when it comes to evaluating video and audio quality. If something looks or sounds downright nasty, I'll make an immediate note of it. And I NEVER had any good video off of ANY Genesis with a KA2195D unless I use RF on a small TV, and even then, I still get the jail bar-style lines that the Top-Loader NES is known for(I don't use it very much specifically because the video is so bad compared to the Front-Loader NES and even most clones). I CAN'T STAND those lines! Even when using S-Video modded Genesis systems, I'd use those with a CXA1645 because they've got very sharp S-Video with less chroma(or luma? Which is it?) artifacts than Genesis systems with a CXA1145. Don't know about the Fujitsu MB3514, but if I find a Made in Malaysia Genesis 2, I'll pick it up and see how it is. I know those are most likely to have Fujitsu MB3514s, and I did find a Made in Malaysia VA1/VA1.8 Genesis 2 that had very nice video output(sharp, colorful, no lines), but as is common on those motherboards, the sound is shit.

    Back to the KA2195D: the very first Genesis I ever got was a VA7 Model 1, and on my old gaming TV(a 20" Magnavox TV with only 2 inputs: RF and Stereo sound, no Composite), the Genesis Model 1 looked very nice. Then, I had the idea to go for the Genesis Model 2, since it was smaller and I was running low on space, so I got one, and when I brought it home, I noticed that the video was considerably worse than my Genesis Model 1(this Genesis 2 contained a VA1.8 board - that one's broken after a failed video encoder swap). Darker, duller, more pixellated and with those Top-Loader NES-style vertical bars. I was disgusted and noticed that almost EVERY SINGLE GENESIS MODEL 2 has what's responsible for such shitty video: a Samsung KA2195D video encoder. Since then, I developed an absolute hatred of that encoder, and every time I picked up a Genesis 2 with a motherboard older than VA2, when I opened them, I found a KA2195D as the video encoder(F***!!!). No joke: ALL of my pre-VA2 Genesis Model 2s have the KA2195, but it seems like the Made in Japan Genesis Model 2s manage to get better video out of the KA2195D, as the colors are nice and vivid and the video is slightly more pixellated than a CXA1145, but it's still got the lines. I've got a Made in Japan VA1 Genesis 2, and I did notice better video coming off of that system than any other Genesis I've ever used with a KA2195D as the video encoder. All my other pre-VA2 Genesis 2s(a VA0, another VA1 and 2 VA1.8s) are either made in Taiwan or China, and the picture quality with the KA2195D on those Genesis 2s is HORRIBLE. And speaking of where Genesis 2s are made, where is your VA3 Genesis 2 made?

    Quote Originally Posted by kool kitty89 View Post
    There's also cases of the 32x having significant edge pixelization/vertical lines (dot craw) on certain TVs worse than normal Genesis video.
    Kool Kitty, vertical lines are NOT dot crawl. Dot crawl is when you get multiple little dots on the screen that move around a lot. I don't get that on my CRT TV, but on my Samsung SyncMaster 244T monitor, I get noticeable dot crawl when using Composite video(that thing has inputs for everything: Composite, S-Video, Component, VGA and DVI). Vertical lines are either chroma/luma artifacts or vertical line noise, and there's a difference between the two. Chroma/luma artifacts are when you've got multiple lines very close to each other, while vertical line noise is when you've got lines that are evenly spaced out, not as numerous and make the image darker in certain spots.
    Last edited by Ace; 08-07-2010 at 06:51 PM.
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