Wow.

[Baloo]

http://www.gamespot.com/sega32x/acti...y;critic-score

http://www.gamerankings.com/sites/15...-16/index.html

It seems that Gamespot/Game Rankings now takes Sega-16 reviews and counts them towards their critic score. Very interesting, it's good to see that we're shown as a "Quality Site". Go Sega-16!

Forgive me if this was already known, I just thought it would be interesting to post.

[Christuserloeser]

Another reason to allow second opinion reviews on some of the more controversial reviews: Streets of Rage, Golden Axe 3, Magical Taruruuto-Kun, Trampoline Terror, Phelios, Columns, Verytex, Zero Wing, High Seas Havoc, Socket ...all of these deserve a second opinion.

[Ghaleon]

I didn't know, that's kinda cool.

[Baloo]

Another reason to allow second opinion reviews on some of the more controversial reviews: Streets of Rage, Golden Axe 3, Magical Taruruuto-Kun, Trampoline Terror, Phelios, Columns, Verytex, Zero Wing, High Seas Havoc, Socket ...all of these deserve a second opinion.

Well, really everyone has different tastes and opinions, whether they be mainstream or not. Some of these games that you've listed reviews can have good opinions about them, Columns is a really love or hate game for most (Some call it a Tetris ripoff, some like it), Zero Wing, take away the fad and you don't really have much, etc. etc. I don't think we should have multiple reviews on games because it can really confuse readers. Also, it kind of lowers the quality on how you look at people's opinions, and the general consensus about the game. You could have two different reviews, one that raves about the game, and one that says the game sucks. It's too confusing and not all that good of a layout IMO.

[Christuserloeser]

I think Zero Wing is a really great game, easily one the machines finest shmups, it just happened to totally drown in everybody and their mum making fun of the terrible translation of the introduction (which probably was meant to be a place holder anyway).

I admit that Columns might be a controversial game, but it is not a game that deserves to have a lower score than most of the FMV "games" for SCD. - If you don't like puzzle games, then don't buy Columns.

Anyway, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the low ratings for Streets of Rage & co. if there was some kind of rule of thumb as to what qualifies for what score and why. As it is, we got total rubbish like Curse, Crystal's Pony Tale, or Cyborg Justice that received the exact same rating as Streets of Rage, and that if judged by their ratings are supposed to be better than Golden Axe 3 - and twice as good as Columns.

But let's see which games we are talking about exactly. What are the games that are supposed to be exactly as good as Moonwalker, Magical Taruruuto-Ku, Golden Axe 3, and Columns 3 ?

• American Gladiators
• Barney's Hide and Seek Game
• Fighting Masters
• Fantasia
• Galaxy Force II
• Justice League Task Force
• Spiritual Warfare
• Fatal Labyrinth
• Caesar's Palace
• Wheel of Fortune
• Hard Drivin'
• Sesame Street Counting Café
• etc. pp.

... all of these "games" are absolutely horrible. - Why they are considered to be anywhere near as good as Moonwalker, Magical Taruruuto-Ku, Golden Axe 3, and Columns 3 or vice versa is beyond me.

And let's see what games are better than these and as good as Zero Wing, High Seas Havoc, Verytex and Midnight Resistance:

• Art Alive
• Shaq Fu
• Double Dragon 3: The Arcade Game
• TaleSpin
• Menacer 6-Game Cartridge
• Bubsy in Claws Encounters of the Furred Kind
• James Bond: The Duel
• James "Buster" Douglas Knockout Boxing

Some of the worst "games" in the history of mankind are better than Moonwalker, Magical Taruruuto-Ku, Golden Axe 3, and Columns 3 ? - and as good as Zero Wing, High Seas Havoc, Verytex and Midnight Resistance ? Interesting.

Let's see which games are as good as Streets of Rage, Phelios, or Socket:

• 3 Ninjas Kick Back
• Virtua Fighter 2
• Family Feud
• Exodus: Journey to the Promised Land
• Tom & Jerry: Frantic Antics
• Jurassic Park: Rampage Edition
• Earnest Evans
• Sonic 3D
• Flicky
• etc.pp.

Great. If I want something as good as Streets of Rage, I'll go and buy Exodus or Family Feud.

Let's see which games I should buy that are better than Streets of Rage:

• Super Hydlide
• Home Alone
• Pitfighter
• Bio-Ship Paladin
• Greendog the Beached Surfer Dude!
• Body Count
• Zoop
• Championship Bowling
• Clue
• Jurassic Park
• Sunset Riders
• Taz-Mania
• WWF Super Wrestlemania
• Evander Holyfield's "Real Deal" Boxing
• Space Harrier II

All of these games are not only better than Streets of Rage but almost twice as good as Moonwalker, Magical Taruruuto-Ku, Golden Axe 3, and Columns 3.

- I think it would be fair to say that in this context the handful of games I mentioned would deserve a second opinion.

I don't think we should have multiple reviews on games because it can really confuse readers. [...]
You could have two different reviews, one that raves about the game, and one that says the game sucks. It's too confusing and not all that good of a layout IMO.

I think it would confuse readers more to see good games recieving bad ratings, don't you think?

- Also, I am not asking for one review "that raves about the game, and one that says the game sucks". I said that these games deserve a second opinion - this could include one that even agrees with the review, although it might make more sense to find someone that has a slightly different opinion.

As in regards to layout an co.: Old school video game magazines usually had a review written by one guy, and two or more seperate sections with the opinions by other staff members.

Also, it kind of lowers the quality on how you look at people's opinions, and the general consensus about the game.

I don't understand what you mean with this sentence.

[Rusty Venture]

I admit that Columns might be a controversial game, but it is not a game that deserves to have a lower score than most of the FMV "games" for SCD. - If you don't like puzzle games, than don't buy Columns.

I'm gonna have to agree here.

I cannot understand how "Columns" could possibly get the same rating as the Marky Mark music video "game" and rate less than the Power Rangers game show footage placed on a CD.

[Zebbe]

All sites/magazines have questionable reviews/scores, but that doesn't mean they have multiple reviews, it would just make the site/mag stand on the same place and prevent it from moving forward. If you think a review is wrong, add a comment with your opinion, write a "Double Take" or write reviews of your own: some day all games are covered and then the site will have multiple reviews.

[Baloo]

Yeah, a Double Take is the best way to say your opinion on the game whose review you didn't really like. I didn't really like the opinion on Moonwalker, so I wrote a Double Take on it. You could do ones for Zero Wing, Streets of Rage, Columns, whatever. That way, the reader could read your opinion about the game as well.

[Melf]

http://www.gamespot.com/sega32x/acti...y;critic-score

http://www.gamerankings.com/sites/15...-16/index.html

It seems that Gamespot/Game Rankings now takes Sega-16 reviews and counts them towards their critic score. Very interesting, it's good to see that we're shown as a "Quality Site". Go Sega-16!

Forgive me if this was already known, I just thought it would be interesting to post.

We've been counted towards their scores for about 4 years now, and they add our scores pretty quickly.

I admit that Columns might be a controversial game, but it is not a game that deserves to have a lower score than most of the FMV "games" for SCD. - If you don't like puzzle games, then don't buy Columns.

You're assuming that Columns and FMV games were evaluated exactly the same, which isn't true. When someone reviews a game, they're supposed to balance its strengths and its weaknesses, and find the corresponding score. Some FMV games will score the same as a platformer, and some will score the same as a shmup. There is no FMV score or action game score. That's why your comparison is flawed. Each game must be taken on its own, and there are FMV games that score higher and lower than others, since each one is evaluated individually. You can't paint scores for entire genres with such broad strokes.

Anyway, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with the low ratings for Streets of Rage & co. if there was some kind of rule of thumb as to what qualifies for what score and why. As it is, we got total rubbish like Curse, Crystal's Pony Tale, or Cyborg Justice that received the exact same rating as Streets of Rage, and that if judged by their ratings are supposed to be better than Golden Axe 3 - and twice as good as Columns.

The Review Manifest is a guideline for scoring games, but that's all it is: a guideline. The very same way you disagree with the score given to any particular game, someone will disagree with yours. Should we change it then? Scores are the opinion of the reviewer, and not everyone will always agree.

But let's see which games we are talking about exactly. What are the games that are supposed to be exactly as good as Moonwalker, Magical Taruruuto-Ku, Golden Axe 3, and Columns 3 ?

• American Gladiators
• Barney's Hide and Seek Game
• Fighting Masters
• Fantasia
• Galaxy Force II
• Justice League Task Force
• Spiritual Warfare
• Fatal Labyrinth
• Caesar's Palace
• Wheel of Fortune
• Hard Drivin'
• Sesame Street Counting Café
• etc. pp.

... all of these "games" are absolutely horrible. - Why they are considered to be anywhere near as good as Moonwalker, Magical Taruruuto-Ku, Golden Axe 3, and Columns 3 or vice versa is beyond me.

And let's see what games are better than these and as good as Zero Wing, High Seas Havoc, Verytex and Midnight Resistance:

• Art Alive
• Shaq Fu
• Double Dragon 3: The Arcade Game
• TaleSpin
• Menacer 6-Game Cartridge
• Bubsy in Claws Encounters of the Furred Kind
• James Bond: The Duel
• James "Buster" Douglas Knockout Boxing

Some of the worst "games" in the history of mankind are better than Moonwalker, Magical Taruruuto-Ku, Golden Axe 3, and Columns 3 ? - and as good as Zero Wing, High Seas Havoc, Verytex and Midnight Resistance ? Interesting.

Let's see which games are as good as Streets of Rage, Phelios, or Socket:

• 3 Ninjas Kick Back
• Virtua Fighter 2
• Family Feud
• Exodus: Journey to the Promised Land
• Tom & Jerry: Frantic Antics
• Jurassic Park: Rampage Edition
• Earnest Evans
• Sonic 3D
• Flicky
• etc.pp.

Great. If I want something as good as Streets of Rage, I'll go and buy Exodus or Family Feud.

Let's see which games I should buy that are better than Streets of Rage:

• Super Hydlide
• Home Alone
• Pitfighter
• Bio-Ship Paladin
• Greendog the Beached Surfer Dude!
• Body Count
• Zoop
• Championship Bowling
• Clue
• Jurassic Park
• Sunset Riders
• Taz-Mania
• WWF Super Wrestlemania
• Evander Holyfield's "Real Deal" Boxing
• Space Harrier II

All of these games are not only better than Streets of Rage but almost twice as good as Moonwalker, Magical Taruruuto-Ku, Golden Axe 3, and Columns 3.

What bible did you read that unilaterally, unequivocally, and irrevocably defined some of these games as "horrible" and others as "better?" That's your opinion, which is as valid as the one expressed in each and every review. Who's to say your opinion is better or worse?

- I think it would be fair to say that in this context the handful of games I mentioned would deserve a second opinion.

We will absolutely, under no circumstances post multiple reviews for each game. That doesn't mean that there's no room for discussion, and for that reason each review can be scored by the readers (who can also leave a 400 character comment), readers can discuss the review in the forums, and you can even write a Double Take article about the game you feel wasn't treated right/was treated too well.

I think it would confuse readers more to see good games recieving bad ratings, don't you think?

I think it would confuse the reader more to see a game with a ton of reviews, all with scores running from a 2 to a 10, such as the selection of reviews for Streets of Rage 3 at GameFaqs.

- Also, I am not asking for one review "that raves about the game, and one that says the game sucks". I said that these games deserve a second opinion - this could include one that even agrees with the review, although it might make more sense to find someone that has a slightly different opinion.

So you're proposing I filter reviews to find opinions that agree with a predetermined criteria. Whose criteria, exactly? If it's mine, then I might as well write all the reviews myself. The whole purpose of the discussion process is to bring out different opinions (like we're doing right now), and to put any kind of filter on reviews would present a bias that would not only compromise what we do here, it would also spell the end of contributor reviews.

As in regards to layout an co.: Old school video game magazines usually had a review written by one guy, and two or more seperate sections with the opinions by other staff members.

And remember how there were plenty of times when the scores were all over the place? How exactly did that help the reader? Even so, there's room for that here on the site, which is why the comment and reader score features were added.

The whole purpose of reviews is to spur interest and create awareness of the games in question. If someone checks out a game to see if it's as bad as the review said, and they completely love the game, we've done our job, since the person wouldn't have played it otherwise. If they agree, then we saved them some time and money or turned them on to a gem they didn't know about. Sure, sometimes people might ignore a game they may have potentially liked based on a review, but I would rather have the reviewer's honest opinion countered by reader scores and comments than try and tell people how to score a game or bombard readers with too many reviews to read and digest.

[Baloo]

Ken has a point, gamers will look at a game if it's really good, or if it's HORRIBLE! Just look at the Angry Video Game Nerd.

And YES! NO MULTIPLE REVIEW NONSENSE!

[The Coop]

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm rather against having multiple reviews for the same game. We have comments available at the end of the review, and a thread for each review where people can go into more detail (which is linked to on the review's page). I think unless the review is blatantly bad, and the reviewer's very misinformed, those two things are enough for disagreeing folks to voice their opinions.

[Phantar]

If I look at the several comments sections where everyone gives his own opinions and points, I must say I too am against multiple reviews (and not just because, for example, someone gave Rock'n'Roll Racing a one just because of a typo in the review itself! Stuff like that isn't objective at all, is it?)

[Christuserloeser]

Just a short reply for now: Having multiple reviews wasn't what I proposed. I meant to propose a second opinion part to a review, a second conclusion. Kinda like the 'Comments', but with an "official", Sega-16 seal of approval, kind of touch.

The ratings remain separate to the original reviewer and to whoever writes the 'second opinion', but the final, official Sega-16 rating would be the average of both ratings.

Let's take Golden Axe 3: Ken rates it a controversial 4/10, given I'd stick with a smilar controversial 10/10 for Golden Axe 3 (I might change it to a 9/10), the average would be a 7/10 - which would look pretty nice next to the 8/10s of the first two GAs.

[Phantar]

I thought that was what "Double Take" was for.

[Christuserloeser]

Sadly a Double Take doesn't affect the rating that other sites quote Sega-16 with.