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Sik
01-18-2011, 05:46 AM
Project MD official site: http://projectmd.mdscene.net/
Project MD GitHub repo: https://github.com/sikthehedgehog/projectmd

Original post below :v
_____

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/12/22/543510/projmd.zip

Because some people at YouTube keep insisting, there you go. This was the game I was working on. No, I won't finish it, so don't ask me that. And it uses an old version of my sound engine that's completely broken (thereby no music, sorry).

I just came here to post this. I may come back later to post a link to the source code, but otherwise I most likely won't reply so don't bother asking me things.

So now go and play this =P

PHANTOM2040
01-18-2011, 08:06 AM
Fun game. It actually flows well making it addictive.

Anonymouse
01-18-2011, 08:07 AM
I cant believe this guy doesnt want to finish off the game. Ive played it and it has the potential to be a truly unique side scroller. Hopefully with the source code someone might consider finishing it. :-)

Orchid87
01-18-2011, 09:42 AM
Wow, cute game! Too bad it won't be finished.

The Jackal
01-18-2011, 09:54 AM
Ah, dammit, I was really looking forward to this - thanks for sharing though.

Sik
01-18-2011, 10:01 AM
http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/12/22/543510/projmd-src.7z
Source code. Oerg866 was trying to get the music on the new (working) sound engine if I recall correctly though, so you may want to wait for him before doing anything.

Also I bet that in two days nobody here will be talking about it anymore. And if for some reason somebody completes the game and wants to sell it, I'd request to try to stay to my original idea: give away the ROM and the code and make money off selling physical copies (added value, etc.), OK?

That's all from me I guess...

Nightwolf
01-18-2011, 10:03 AM
Thanks you Sik. Will you continue making other Megadrive games?

Sik
01-18-2011, 10:13 AM
Yes, in fact I'm into that (trying to make a much better engine, that is) and I just made a credits ROM for Gens/GS II.

That said, something I forgot to ask: who here wants Stephany as the official MD homebrew mascot?

The Jackal
01-18-2011, 10:25 AM
Yes, in fact I'm into that (trying to make a much better engine, that is) and I just made a credits ROM for Gens/GS II.

That said, something I forgot to ask: who here wants Stephany as the official MD homebrew mascot?

Who's Stephany?

Sik
01-18-2011, 10:28 AM
The game's main character, check the intro...

Orchid87
01-18-2011, 10:40 AM
The game's main character, check the intro...
I love how she is animated :p

The Jackal
01-18-2011, 10:47 AM
The game's main character, check the intro...

Ahh, that makes sense now. Man, I feel like such a tit...

Orchid87
01-18-2011, 10:52 AM
Hey, Sik, can you share some info on that newer Genesis engine?

retrospiel
01-18-2011, 11:03 AM
I'm really disappointed to hear that you discontinue this game, but I am looking forward to your next project.

Nightwolf
01-18-2011, 11:06 AM
Yes, in fact I'm into that (trying to make a much better engine, that is) and I just made a credits ROM for Gens/GS II.

That said, something I forgot to ask: who here wants Stephany as the official MD homebrew mascot?

Great news! :) Then, if someone finish the game....

Of course, positive vote for Stephany :D

Sik
01-18-2011, 11:08 AM
Hey, Sik, can you share some info on that newer Genesis engine?

Nah, I'd like to avoid hype, especially this early and not being really my game (I'm just programming), I'll just limit myself to say it'll have slopes and vertical scrolling... Project MD levels could have been much better if the engine supported that >_>

CheapAssGamer
01-18-2011, 11:36 AM
Wow, that looks pretty neat! Pity it won't get finished. If this is an indication of your next project though ... can I pre-order now? ;)

Anonymouse
01-18-2011, 12:49 PM
Hey Sik. Im really looking forward to seeing what you have next because I totally love Project MD. I thought the quality of the controls felt like something on par to a 2000+ game. Its very smooth feeling. Its also kind of you to release the source code. Hopefully some one or people will finish this game as it would be a waste not too. Its something original

djshok
01-18-2011, 01:36 PM
Wow this looks really neat. I hope that someone picks up the source code and finishes it. I'd love to have a complete version on a cartridge. This game looks cool.

old man
01-18-2011, 02:08 PM
Nice, I can't wait to see what your working on next.

Anonymouse
01-19-2011, 08:45 AM
ive just had a look at the source code. Its commented very very well. This could be made into a great guide to get people started with coding for the sega mega drive

Sik
01-19-2011, 09:10 AM
I really doubt so, besides being giant (over 200 assembly files, almost 700 total if you include the binary data, almost 1400 if you also count the data source files), there is some really bad design (like how objects are handled, even though it could easily run over 100 objects at the same time without slow down). Also there's some serious cheating going on for some stuff.

But I agree it's better commented than lots of asm code out there...

Anonymouse
01-19-2011, 03:14 PM
Not that ive seen loads of code (I used to be a computer artist for video games) its amoungst the best commented ive ever seen. You probably spent more time commenting than you did coding, its a pleaseure to read and was meant to be read.

Royce
01-19-2011, 04:54 PM
All your posts are really depressing Sik. I love it.

retrospiel
01-19-2011, 04:59 PM
Also I bet that in two days nobody here will be talking about it anymore.

Hey, if you'd have finished it this thread might have had 3,218 replies (http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3210) and would still be talked about in four years from now. :o

108 Stars
01-19-2011, 05:15 PM
Truly a promising project. I hope the other one you are involved in will be finished! :)

Zebbe
01-19-2011, 05:44 PM
I love the graphical effects in this game. The style reminds me a bit about Pulseman. I think this could be a decent game if sprites are worked on a bit, music is added and level design and difficulty (up to very hard) is tweaked.

Also, I will vote NO for Stephany as official MD homebrew mascot since she isn't in a finished game - yet! My vote, perhaps not too unexpected, goes to a character in Pier Solar - either a frog or Edessot.

Anonymouse
01-19-2011, 08:20 PM
Sik why dont you stop being so depressing and just finish the game.

Royce
01-19-2011, 08:50 PM
I just downloaded an emulator (something I hate using) just to play this game. I have to say I'm really impressed. I've got high hopes for the future of this game (Zebbe's "not finished-yet" comment makes me especially hopeful).

Sik
01-19-2011, 10:30 PM
What if I release Echo? Technically now it's usable, just lacking stereo, pausing and global volume control (needed for fading)... The tester program has Stephany in the background, after all!

Also I'm trying to see if new programmers can be found to continue it (I don't want to touch that code anymore I swear...), so yeah, maybe...

Also Zebbe: try beating Mechanical Heart. I know some guy that has it easy beating MegaMan but still is stuck at the end of that level... Also wait for the bosses to get implemented. The speed of Dark Stephany in Binary Fury should be a hint to what I mean... She's merciless.

Anonymouse
01-20-2011, 02:15 AM
whats echo? youve showed us the demo of project MD and we love it. Make a website, take pre-orders, watch the $ flow in.

Sik
01-20-2011, 03:55 AM
Echo is the sound engine. The version in Project MD is horribly broken, but the current one works perfectly. I made it mainly because the only proper sound engine out there was Tiido's (everything else was sound players, no proper SFX support) and I didn't want to sign an NDA for that...

I may release something once I get somebody to make a good tune to show it working properly (or I finish converting the MIDI I got), since I completely suck at making music.

Anonymouse
01-20-2011, 12:33 PM
sign an NDA? what is that?

Gogogadget
01-20-2011, 12:53 PM
Non-Disclosure Agreement I believe

108 Stars
01-20-2011, 02:29 PM
Yep, it's a standard-procedure. For example game developers sign those and gurantee by that that no internal information is leaked etc.

Tiido holds the rights to his code, so he asks you to sign an NDA if you want permission to use it. :)

Sik
01-21-2011, 03:57 AM
The problem with his NDA is that it didn't just forbid me from messing with his code (which I didn't care) but that it also prevented me from releasing the source code of the entire game (which I DID care).

I won't do that with Echo, although I seriously need to work on making tools to make songs for it. So far it has been all handwritten binary data x_x

Zebbe
01-21-2011, 07:45 AM
Wouldn't the source code of the entire game include the source code of Tiido's sound engine?

Sik
01-21-2011, 08:08 AM
His engine is Z80 only, it could have been included as a generic blob. And he admitted that it's possible to get it out of the ROM with a debugger like the one in Regen, so I don't know how that'd make it any different from releasing the game's source code with a Z80 blob...

Flygon
01-21-2011, 08:34 AM
From what I've heard Tiido's sound engine isn't exactly very trivial to disassemble, something about it being a complete mess of code.

But, I could be misremembering.

Chilly Willy
01-21-2011, 04:52 PM
He could do just like id did with Doom and just release all the code EXCEPT the sound/music code and leave it to people writing ports to replace it with something else. Just because one person doesn't give permission to release part of the code doesn't mean the rest can't be released.

Sik
01-22-2011, 03:28 AM
The NDA covered also all of my code that interfaced with his engine. The mere fact of accessing the Z80 was enough. In other words, that would be stepping over my own copyright. The only way to distribute the game would be to remove absolutely all code that generated a dependency to his engine (removing his code isn't enough).

That, and I would never distribute code for an entire program that can't be used as is.

retrospiel
01-25-2011, 09:40 AM
What I really don't understand is why you did release this without waiting for Oerg866's music.

Sik
01-25-2011, 01:42 PM
The game isn't even complete, wouldn't it make more sense to ask why it was released like this?

Anonymouse
01-27-2011, 09:31 AM
Well why was it released like this. I dont understand why you stopped continuing work on it. Its feels very solid and would be awesome when complete. I understand that you may have a better engine/idea but you should finish it.

Oerg866
02-11-2011, 05:19 AM
I would absolutely love for the engine to get released. I've worked with it a couple of times and it's absolutely convenient.

(Oh, that would also mean I could finally get this (http://oerg866.ath.cx/~pvt/untitled2.JPG) fucker released =P)

Also for those of you who absolutely cannot wait for the PMD music, here's (http://oerg866.tototek.com/echoz80.mp3) a little example of what the engine can do (it can do more than that, I left one channel free in that one).

Oh, and here (http://oerg866.tototek.com/echoz80_1.mp3) is a very early beta version of PMD's credits tune.

And before you ask; Yes, Echo does work fine on real HW :P

Cheers!

Anonymouse
02-11-2011, 09:02 AM
Oerg866 - Totally amazing stuff here. This game needs to be finished.

Oerg866
02-11-2011, 12:16 PM
I agree with you, Anonymouse.

I cannot really put in the music anymore, right now. I was in charge of the soundtrack, and I did one aswell, but: Sik and I are not exactly seeing eye to eye on each other, for reasons I shall not discuss here. Let's just say that I have offended him (not wantingly, but I did, and I could shoot myself every day beacuse of it).

I can only hope he will forgive me soon, because I really did enjoy working with him.

Cheers!

djshok
05-08-2011, 09:32 PM
Just steering the conversation about Project MD from the Affinity Sorrow thread to here. I still say Project MD is awesome, despite it's simplicity.


Um, I have this art Chimpo made some time ago, but it isn't official and she even has wrong clothes (she wears shorts, not a skirt). It isn't even in the same art style as the game:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/12/22/543510/kawaiistephany.jpg



Yeah I always imagined her looking more like the chick from Space Channel 5 for the Dreamcast. I'm all for her being the homebrew macot, but I think before that happens Project MD should be done. The entire theme of the game is hardware/software and would be very appropriate for the homebrew mascot idea. However, if the game isn't finished no one will know who the character is, so that would be kinda silly. On the other hand if someone finishes it and it gets some sort of release it could be a nice symbol of Sega homebrew development. I think it's because of the whole "inside the computer" theme of the game that really makes it so appropriate for that purpose.

Zebbe
05-09-2011, 01:17 AM
Official homebrew mascot? Not as long as the game is unfinished and unreleased. Maybe I'm a bit biased, but I think Edessot of Pier Solar would do better as a homebrew mascot right now :P.

Oerg866
05-09-2011, 02:38 AM
EDIT: I should not post at 7AM after 3 hours of sleep Q_Q

Anonymouse
05-09-2011, 08:00 PM
Lol I think its a bit much asking for one the characters from Project MD to be a mascot for homebrew when the game was never finished. This way the character would relate with very few people. I think Edessot would be much more appropriate. I dont mean this in a overly critical way. Projecy MD is awesome and should be completed.

Chilly Willy
05-09-2011, 09:05 PM
I played a couple levels yesterday... it's a nice game, for all that it's not complete. It's definitely a good start.

Sik
05-09-2011, 09:59 PM
Has anybody beaten Mechanical Heart? =|

Oerg866
05-10-2011, 05:24 AM
As Sik already introduced, I am in progress of converting the old SFX data to the new system and modifying PMD to accept the new engine and implement the music.

I hope I'll be able to give some previews when the time has come (if Sik is ok with that :V)

Anonymouse
05-11-2011, 10:09 AM
As Sik already introduced, I am in progress of converting the old SFX data to the new system and modifying PMD to accept the new engine and implement the music.

I hope I'll be able to give some previews when the time has come (if Sik is ok with that :V)

This is great news. You should make a website and take pre-orders :-). Im sure many people would be interested :-)

djshok
05-11-2011, 11:25 AM
This is great news. You should make a website and take pre-orders :-). Im sure many people would be interested :-)

I agree with and second everything in this statement. :cool:

Zebbe
05-11-2011, 11:29 AM
An advice, inspired by the experience of Pier Solar: don't take pre-orders until the game is in the final beta testing or completely done.

Sik
05-11-2011, 11:34 AM
This is great news. You should make a website and take pre-orders :-). Im sure many people would be interested :-)I won't take preorders until the game is finished, period. Not just to avoid taking preorders when the game may not be out, but also since I need to know the cartridge contents to know how much would it cost (I think it may be a 512KB ROM but I'm not sure, and I'd have yet to settle on which kind of memory it'd use for savegames).

Also I need a host so I can make a MD homebrew site, though then again I never settle on the contents =|


An advice, inspired by the experience of Pier Solar: don't take pre-orders until the game is in the final beta testing or completely done.Sometimes I wish even big publishers would take this advice...

Sik
05-17-2011, 07:25 AM
So, Project MD now is working on the new Echo, meaning it isn't playing sounds off a crappy broken sound engine anymore =P Thought I may say this.

Also I may release Echo soon... provided I find a suitable place to host the files and such =/ Echo isn't finished (current version is labeled 0.7), but it should be usable (more specifically: stereo works but isn't complete, pausing and global volume need to be implemented, otherwise Echo is pretty much complete). I need to get a Z80 assembler on this computer -_-'

Anonymouse
05-17-2011, 01:48 PM
Great News Sik. Keep at it, im really interested in this

Bramsworth
05-17-2011, 08:56 PM
Wait, so Project MD is still alive and will eventually be released as a homebrew game to buy? I thought it was cancelled.

Oerg866
05-18-2011, 03:27 AM
It is still cancelled indeed, the only thing that's happening is inserting the music, as I said before

Oerg866
07-18-2011, 08:21 PM
Huh. Well here's something you don't see every day.

If you want to follow this game some more, we welcome you into the following IRC channel:

Server: irc.badnik.net
Channel: #projectmd

You can go online with an IRC client (mIRC, XChat, KVIrc, Chatzilla, Opera's built in client) by clicking this link too: irc://irc.badnik.net/projectmd

Webchat client: http://mibbit.com/chat

Right. To all germans attending the Doreco event (http://www.doreco.de), you will get a chance to play the current build (WITH music)!


Cya there!~

Sik
07-18-2011, 08:22 PM
You forgot to mention the Doreco event =/ [/asshole]
Wait, you did. Screw that.

EDIT: how many people made it here?
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/7720/youtu.png

Oerg866
07-22-2011, 10:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myg_TKkVmjQ

SUCKAAAAHS :D

Sik
07-24-2011, 12:30 AM
CREtjSovtts

What could go possibly wrong?

Flygon
07-31-2011, 06:10 AM
A power outage.

Sik
07-31-2011, 06:40 AM
Wouldn't that make the level 100% easier? I mean, if the lasers don't work and the gears aren't moving, Stephany can't get hurt by the most dangerous hazards in the level, right?

Oerg866
08-01-2011, 10:39 AM
well, the moving platforms wouldn't move :P

Sik
08-01-2011, 02:33 PM
What powers the moving platforms in other levels? =P

Anonymouse
08-04-2011, 08:29 AM
WOW the music is awesome on this game :-). Who composed it? It totally transforms the game from feeling a bit cold to warm and full of life. The only thing I could comment is on the jump sound. Its either too loud or needs be changed.

Other than that the game looks like its gonna be awesome. I hope there is a cart release :-)

TmEE
08-04-2011, 08:36 AM
Oerg himself made the music, and yes it is great stuff ^^

villahed94
08-04-2011, 11:10 AM
Yeah, that music is great. But I think it´s relying on the quantization noise of the discrete YM2612 and the MD1 filtering.

djshok
08-04-2011, 11:24 AM
I'm glad someone is still working on this, but what's the point of adding in music if the game will never be finished? I'm a little confused...

Sik
08-20-2011, 11:29 AM
http://i.imgur.com/DP6Bw.png

slobu
08-26-2011, 11:42 AM
As a mental exercise I like to figure out how Project MD effects could be reproduced using BasiEgaXorz. One thing that I can't yet grasp is the pitfall harry style swinging ropes. How are those made? I could see using up tiles pre-rendering the whole swing but there must be another way..

Sik
08-26-2011, 05:27 PM
The ropes are made out of multiple sprites, lol. There isn't much to them really.

Sik
09-09-2011, 01:33 AM
http://i.imgur.com/heq3q.png

Still doesn't do anything, but it's there. And yes, flickering trick on the freaking pause menu, I couldn't get good color shades for it unless I want to be unfriendly to colorblind people -_-' (OK, Stephany's power-up colors aren't much better, but at least you can keep track of what item you got last)

EDIT: because the pause menu looks like shit without the flickering trick, here, blend of two consecutive frames so you get an idea of how it should look:

http://i.imgur.com/B7XH8.png

I should get a program to do animated GIFs...

Oerg866
10-12-2011, 07:50 AM
Echo is making some progress, sik has done a huge fuckton of optimizations to PCM, and therefore I was able to implement some musical blast processing (aka OONTZ on GENESIS:

http://www.mdscene.net/~pvt/projmd_000.mp3

This is the drums from Ether Network's music. This level has by far the most technically appealing and most musically advanced BGM. I've been writing a completely new xm2esf (Echo stream format) and just as a small spoiler, this program will be publically released and is the first tool to allow to create music using all major effects from the XM format (arpeggio, portamento up, portamento down, tone porta, vibrato, volume slide, set volume).

This moment, if you realize that VGM Music Maker can do all those things -- remember, VMM does not have MD-replayable output (it has no sound engine on the MD), only VGM export.

So, I realize the music for this level will probably stand out from the others, but heh, I'm pretty pleased. Note that in the above MP3 all channels except PCM are muted.

Cheers :P

Barone
10-12-2011, 08:36 AM
Pure awesomeness... I don't know what to do, so I rep'ed you and Sik.

Thank you very much for all your efforts!

Sik
10-12-2011, 11:23 AM
Give some rep to Eke-Eke, he proved me wrong on the YM2612 timers thing which resulted in the main optimization =P

Barone
10-12-2011, 12:59 PM
Done!

Sik
10-14-2011, 07:38 AM
Stephany went moe o_o;

http://www.mdscene.net/user/~sik/.projmd/projmd010.png

New waiting animation. This one will only play when you get the love power-up (pink one), the normal one will play otherwise, so don't worry about that =P

Sik
10-19-2011, 04:04 PM
Because I can:

http://www.mdscene.net/user/~sik/.projmd/projmd017.png

Translucent enemies :v

EDIT: this also leads to a funny situation:

Background has a translucency FX (look at its parallax)
Foreground has translucency (glass-like parts)
Enemies are translucent

All three of those can (and do) overlap

Kamahl
10-19-2011, 04:40 PM
Is the translucency done through the flickering trick or do you use some weird palette trick? (I assume flickering trick... not that many palettes to work with :p)

Sik
10-19-2011, 04:45 PM
Is the translucency done through the flickering trick or do you use some weird palette trick? (I assume flickering trick... not that many palettes to work with :p)
S/H, actually. Enemies are using highlight as 50% translucency (thereby the checkerboard for the enemy shadows, since I only have one translucent white "shade" =P)

EDIT: hint, in a still screenshot, flickering trick looks like a standard checkerboard.

Kamahl
10-19-2011, 04:53 PM
EDIT: hint, in a still screenshot, flickering trick looks like a standard checkerboard.

Not if you blend the frames ;).

Sik
10-19-2011, 05:26 PM
But I didn't, otherwise you wouldn't see the checkerboard :v (the platform Stephany is standing on gives it away)

Kamahl
10-19-2011, 05:51 PM
But I didn't, otherwise you wouldn't see the checkerboard :v (the platform Stephany is standing on gives it away)

That might have been intentional :p.

Majestic_Lizard
11-14-2011, 08:54 PM
Fantastic homebrew.

Sik
11-24-2011, 10:36 AM
Let's do this again:

omRJXXH0QQ4

Anonymouse
11-24-2011, 11:43 AM
Dear god this is looking good! The music and the little extra touches add so much to it. My only suggestion would be to turn down the jump sound effects or change them to something more suttle on the ears. Excellent work as always Sik.

djshok
11-24-2011, 01:51 PM
Man this is awesome! I'm glad you guys are working on this still/again or whatever.

Barone
11-24-2011, 05:35 PM
It's so badass and mind blowing... I'll pray to see it finished.

"My only suggestion would be to turn down the jump sound effects or change them to something more suttle on the ears."
I agree.

The drums are awesome!

Sik
11-24-2011, 05:52 PM
Because I can. (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16261067)

Chilly Willy
11-24-2011, 05:57 PM
Because I can. (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm16261067)

You have to register to watch videos there. You need to post videos to youtube.

Sik
11-24-2011, 06:56 PM
You have to register to watch videos there. You need to post videos to youtube.
*points 5 posts back*

I just reposted the video in Nico Nico Douga (think of it like a Japanese YouTube). At least now I don't look like a bot, lol (I had registered just to watch videos).

sasuke
11-24-2011, 11:08 PM
*points 5 posts back*

I just reposted the video in Nico Nico Douga (think of it like a Japanese YouTube). At least now I don't look like a bot, lol (I had registered just to watch videos).

There is also an English Version (http://video.niconico.com/watch/sm16261067) of this site in beta. And it doesn't require registration to view it.

Of course, it is the same video as on youtube. :)

Sik
11-25-2011, 12:26 AM
There is also an English Version (http://video.niconico.com/watch/sm16261067) of this site in beta. And it doesn't require registration to view it.
Yes, I know, in fact when uploading the video it asked me if I wanted to cross-post it there. Which resulted in one of the biggest fails ever, because I had written the description in Japanese, then it offered me to translate it to English, but I completely forgot what I had written so I had to use Google Translate to find out WTF had I just written.

*facepalm*

Chilly Willy
11-25-2011, 02:06 AM
There is also an English Version (http://video.niconico.com/watch/sm16261067) of this site in beta. And it doesn't require registration to view it.

Of course, it is the same video as on youtube. :)

Yes, that link works fine. The music definitely helps the game. These 'old-school' platformers are best with music. :)

Anonymouse
11-25-2011, 10:41 AM
Hi Sik. Do you plan on finishing this and making it a cart release?

Flygon
11-25-2011, 09:18 PM
From what I understand, he has intended to make a cart release possible.

Sik
12-09-2011, 09:08 AM
YptU9ig9R9A

Yeah, again this one too...

Oerg866
12-11-2011, 03:24 PM
Yesterday, the retro computing/gaming event "DoReCo" (its 30th instance too!) took place in Dortmund, Germany. Attendants hat the opportunity to play a beta version of the game and also a time attack competition was held:

(That's me on the left =P)
http://www.lust-auf-nostalgie.de/computer/03_events/doreco/doreco_30_10122011/38.jpg
http://www.lust-auf-nostalgie.de/computer/03_events/doreco/doreco_30_10122011/39.jpg
http://www.lust-auf-nostalgie.de/computer/03_events/doreco/doreco_30_10122011/40.jpg
http://www.lust-auf-nostalgie.de/computer/03_events/doreco/doreco_30_10122011/41.jpg

A few videos might follow later ;)

Flygon
12-12-2011, 02:08 AM
Man, you Germans get all the fun. Nothing interesting regarding games happens where I am! :(

I'm interested in videos, none-the-less. :)

Sik
12-17-2011, 10:55 AM
DoReCo time

w3J5kCNRIbE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3J5kCNRIbE

Sik
12-22-2011, 04:25 PM
4eioJt7JR5Q

PLASMAAAAAAAAAAAA!! (and not "positive marker over over over over" like Google Translate said, WTF?)

Some quick changes:


Now all walking enemies break, just like the flying ones. Exception: trolls (Ether Network, Waterlava), which retain their old death animation.

Now attacking multiple enemies in a row without landing gives you more score. First enemy gives you 100 points, second gives you 200 points, third gives you 300, and so on.


Also, low blue shade intensities + plasma + video encoding = BAD x_x

Barone
12-22-2011, 04:47 PM
A-W-E-S-O-M-E
:notworthy:

bgvanbur
12-22-2011, 05:31 PM
I like the extra points for jumping on multiple enemies. But now what is the point of the diamonds now? They are only 10 points and provide no other perk (from what I can tell). Jump on 3 enemies and that is a total of 600 points, equivalent to collecting 60 diamonds. Sonic and Mario both had perks beyond adding to your score for collecting things.

Sik
12-22-2011, 05:38 PM
I like the extra points for jumping on multiple enemies. But now what is the point of the diamonds now? They are only 10 points and provide no other perk (from what I can tell). Jump on 3 enemies and that is a total of 600 points, equivalent to collecting 60 diamonds. Sonic and Mario both had perks beyond adding to your score for collecting things.
Gate Array is Gate Array... It's really the only level where you can abuse enemy jumping that much. In the other levels you're lucky to get two, and getting three is near impossible. And some levels are nearly void of enemies as they're heavily trap-based - so rhombuses have a much bigger impact there.

retrospiel
12-22-2011, 07:20 PM
oh god, this looks FANTASTIC!!!!111oneoneone

Kamahl
12-22-2011, 07:57 PM
You just gotta love the music.

Sik
01-02-2012, 12:32 PM
Making this for the game intro:

http://sik.mdscene.net/.projmd/hi-res-3x.png

=P

Kamahl
01-02-2012, 12:34 PM
Sexy

Tor Landeel
01-02-2012, 01:27 PM
That is soooo awesome!! Love the music, the smoothness, I hope to see it finished one day!

Sik
01-05-2012, 11:16 AM
Snoy7wv1RCE

WTF "press start"... Don't ask me why the hell it got filtered like that (remember I filter down from 60 FPS to 30 FPS to prevent YouTube from completely murdering the flickering FX).

villahed94
01-07-2012, 03:06 PM
Hmm, post some more pics of the game. If possible some builds containing the updated gfx/music would be great.

Sik
01-20-2012, 02:42 AM
Dammit, I almost forgot to post this:

FmYSyITGRqM

netpredakonn
01-20-2012, 06:51 AM
Hey, Sik, I see that you've developed a lot already and the game looks and feel great. How far along into development are you already?

Golpezas
01-20-2012, 07:49 AM
Snoy7wv1RCE

WTF "press start"... Don't ask me why the hell it got filtered like that (remember I filter down from 60 FPS to 30 FPS to prevent YouTube from completely murdering the flickering FX).

In background... how did you manage to simulate such amount of planes?

Sik
01-20-2012, 10:02 AM
In background... how did you manage to simulate such amount of planes?
Sprites and a software rendered layer (besides the two tilemaps).

djshok
01-20-2012, 11:04 AM
Man this game looks wicked! I'm really looking forward to playing this.

Kamahl
01-20-2012, 03:24 PM
Oerg's music is awesome as usual.

Joe Redifer
01-21-2012, 07:02 AM
Hey Sik it filters like that because when you have something flickering on and off like that at 60fps it will become basically 50% opaque when blended. You won't be able to discern any flickering. I do this a lot on Game Sack (I record with real hardware) and flickering characters and whatnot become transparent. It's better to have that than to have them disappear completely when they get hit. Or sometimes I will not blend and just choose the opposite field so they don't disappear or become 50% transparent. It depends.

Sik
01-21-2012, 07:57 AM
Hey Sik it filters like that because when you have something flickering on and off like that at 60fps it will become basically 50% opaque when blended.
That's the problem, it is NOT blinking at 60 FPS =|

EDIT: to make it clear, it's actually blinking at half the speed. And the filter will blend two consecutive frames together. So whether it gets blended or not depends on which frame I pressed start to skip the intro.

If it's timed such that in each pair of frames it's both shown or hidden, you get blinking:
|##|--|##|--|##|--|##|--|
If it's timed such that in each pair of frames it gets shown on one and not in the other, you get blending:
|#-|-#|#-|-#|#-|-#|#-|-#|

EDIT 2: in fact, does anybody know how to tell VirtualDub to skip the first frame of a video? Before it applies the filters?

Joe Redifer
01-22-2012, 01:25 AM
Your explanation doesn't make much sense to me. Is it on for one frame and off for the next? Or is it on for two frames and off for the next two?

No clue about Virtual Dub. I use Final Cut Pro.

Sik
01-22-2012, 05:16 AM
Your explanation doesn't make much sense to me. Is it on for one frame and off for the next? Or is it on for two frames and off for the next two?
The latter. And depending on which frame I press Start to skip the intro is how those frames will be aligned - so sometimes it will blink as normal, and sometimes it'll get blended like it was blinking double as fast.

retrospiel
01-22-2012, 09:02 AM
I dunno, there's something about the sound effects which rubs me the wrong way. They seem too loud, yet I don't think they're much different from what you'd find in a Sonic game ?

Sik
01-23-2012, 12:38 PM
http://projectmd.mdscene.net/ :v

(in before I get flooded with e-mails asking if I'll start taking preorders...)

StarMist
01-23-2012, 03:45 PM
Just peeked. Like the grid BG to the opening lv. Presumably all the remarks about the boring gameplay are a joke I'm late to; answering which seriously I've seen much duller (Flink). Might need some extra difficulty but you can always solve that by going Atari style on it: don't amend any of the bugs. Just so long as your heroine doesn't pinata blood when she dies. : (whatever letter makes you happy)

Sik
01-23-2012, 03:58 PM
Presumably all the remarks about the boring gameplay are a joke I'm late to;
Nah, I genuinely think the game is boring, but everybody else seems to disagree =/

Flygon
01-24-2012, 12:56 AM
(in before I get flooded with e-mails asking if I'll start taking preorders...)
You are lucky I'm broke, and not deaf. :p

Sik
01-24-2012, 06:38 AM
You are lucky I'm broke, and not deaf. :p
Lies and slander *forces you to listen to those ultra-loud drums again*

Flygon
01-24-2012, 08:03 AM
Lies and slander *forces you to listen to those ultra-loud drums again*
Nooooo! I just installled that subwoofer!

Sik
01-24-2012, 08:22 AM
Hey, don't complain that Echo can do literal blast processing! =P

KillerBean2
01-26-2012, 09:41 AM
I like the gameplay, the music and the background graphics. But I'm not too crazy about the sprite graphics.

If you could find a talented pixel artist, who wants to spend some time on giving Stephany and the enemies a makeover, it would take the game to a whole new level.

Sik
01-26-2012, 10:03 AM
I really like how everybody complains about the tiny details yet completely overlook the fact this is essentially a Super Mario Bros 1 wannabe without all the cool stuff and one generation late...

KillerBean2
01-26-2012, 10:56 AM
But SMB1 is a great game! If it ain't broke don't mess with it :D

Besides, making a great game is not all about being innovative and pushing the envelope. It's nice, but not essential. To me, a challenging well flowing gameplay and some aestheticly pleasing graphics + music is far more important.

Sik
01-26-2012, 11:18 AM
But SMB1 is a great game! If it ain't broke don't mess with it :D
Excuse me? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fGClRqkXg0)

Anyways, that's what I mean, Project MD is essentially SMB1 without any of the good stuff =/

KillerBean2
01-26-2012, 11:33 AM
Excuse me? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fGClRqkXg0)


I was talking about the gameplay, not the mechanics ;)



Project MD is essentially SMB1 without any of the good stuff =/


What good stuff?

Sik
01-26-2012, 11:44 AM
What good stuff?
SMB1 had many more types of enemies, alternate paths in form of pipes (and even warp pipes that took you to other levels), hidden items all over the place, four times as many levels, much better level design overall, a much faster pace, etc. Not to mention, that's an early game in the third generation. Times have changed since then. There is no excuse for a platformer in a fourth generation system to not scroll vertically, for instance.

I seriously think Project MD is extremely overrated. People who don't look through homebrew glasses agree with it.

KillerBean2
01-26-2012, 12:12 PM
I seriously think Project MD is extremely overrated.


Well, I have to agree with you on that. It's not fantastic... but it's not complete crap either.

If you're having a "Project MDII" in the pipeline, I think that one could become quite solid :)

Sik
01-26-2012, 12:28 PM
Well, I have to agree with you on that. It's not fantastic... but it's not complete crap either.
Yes it is. There is no justification to make SMB1 downgraded, especially not in this age where all indies are managing to release much more awesome games with even less resources or expertise. In fact, after Pier Solar was released, you'd think a platformer should be at least as epic as S3&K to be accepted by the homebrew community. I don't care about the development time or how many people are working, what matters is the final product.

bgvanbur
01-26-2012, 12:31 PM
Saying a fourth generation platformer must have vertical scrolling is like saying every current generation game should be in 3D. New Super Mario Bros Wii was a system pack in despite the fact it looked like a Super Nintendo game. All that matters is if the game is entertaining and Project MD is just that (and my homebrew glasses make me like it even more than I should).

Sik
01-26-2012, 12:55 PM
Saying a fourth generation platformer must have vertical scrolling is like saying every current generation game should be in 3D.
Even most third generation games had vertical scrolling though, and practically none in the fourth generation (and I mean proper platformers, not run'n'guns where the focus is different). And this is the result of laziness, nothing to do with game mechanics. Sorry, but this is outright insulting to the players.


New Super Mario Bros Wii was a system pack in despite the fact it looked like a Super Nintendo game.
It looks much better than a SNES game...

makinagenesis
01-26-2012, 01:11 PM
Saying a fourth generation platformer must have vertical scrolling is like saying every current generation game should be in 3D. New Super Mario Bros Wii was a system pack in despite the fact it looked like a Super Nintendo game. All that matters is if the game is entertaining and Project MD is just that (and my homebrew glasses make me like it even more than I should).

no it didn't

Kamahl
01-26-2012, 01:17 PM
I was proud of making a game that had:
1 weapon with 2 types of shot, 2 levels, the second of which was just 1 boss, 3 enemy types, one of which was just a hard to hit bird that gave you ammo and life, the most basic collision detection imaginable (just AABB), and an AI that was just rand() + an increase in aggressiveness according to the player score. It was also almost impossible to beat, and made in gamemaker. The game wasn't even anything special, basically a space invaders inspired game.

Sik man... Be a little more proud of your work.

StarMist
01-26-2012, 01:40 PM
I really like how everybody complains about the tiny details yet completely overlook the fact this is essentially a Super Mario Bros 1 wannabe without all the cool stuff and one generation late...If it makes you feel better in my former comment I was being polite.

Zebbe
01-26-2012, 02:02 PM
The graphics and music are great enough to warrant a cartridge release. The gameplay problem can probably be worked around with some interesting level design, perhaps something very hard like the true sequel to Super Mario Bros.

Sik
01-26-2012, 02:48 PM
The gameplay problem can probably be worked around with some interesting level design, perhaps something very hard like the true sequel to Super Mario Bros.
In other words, make a whole new game from scratch?

Also fuck it all, I'm tired of all this bullshit:
https://github.com/sikthehedgehog/projectmd

That's right, releasing the game as-is. Will make all development open from now on. You'll be able to snatch new updates as I make them. Will add a link to this to the site as soon as I can (ack, stupid translation to Japanese x_x).

And no, there won't be a single cartridge release, if this wasn't made clear enough. The only way you'll be even getting a cartridge is through a repro or if some Chinese bootlegger decides to make copies on his own. Honestly I think that asking anyone to pay for this piece of crap is outright insulting to the players and treating them like complete morons. There is absolutely no reason why anybody should pay for such an abomination.

And maybe somebody should unpin this thread. I'd be nice to know what's the real interest users have on this game.

KillerBean2
01-26-2012, 03:19 PM
And no, there won't be a single cartridge release, if this wasn't made clear enough.

I can live with that. But please tell me that you're working on a sequel, that will be cartridge-worthy?

Kamahl
01-26-2012, 03:34 PM
Man this game has some hellish platforming at times. I can't figure out how to get to some golden thingies either.

Barone
01-26-2012, 03:41 PM
WoW, just fuckin' wow!

Just played a bit of each stage (using an Everdrive). The colors are very very nice, the animation is smoooooth operator, the backgrounds are mindblowing and the design is creative and very interesting IMO.
I have to tell you that I just had multiple eargasms with those awesome tracks playing loud in my stereo! The drums are awesome. The music fits the game perfectly.

I have read your posts but IDK if I missed something... I remember that you said, initially, that you would not program bosses for the stages, but pleeeeeease, do it. I really don't believe that someone else will be capable of doing something that fits the atmosphere of the game as well as you could do; and that's what make this game unique IMO.

Well I will share more thoughts after playing it a bit more.

Thanks a lot! It does not express what I really feel but is all that I can say now. Just freakin' awesome what you have done.



I can live with that. But please tell me that you're working on a sequel, that will be cartridge-worthy?
I'm pretty sure that someone will start to sell repros very soon.

Sik
01-26-2012, 03:47 PM
I remember that you said, initially that you would not program bosses for the stages, but pleeeeeease, do it.
Wow, I never said that (in fact, there are two incomplete boss stages there), I just said that they weren't programmed yet o_O

EDIT: unless you mean bosses at the end of the stages. I said that the bosses were getting their own stages.

Barone
01-26-2012, 03:49 PM
All, it's so sweet to be completely wrong in this case. :D
I think I read/remember just about the "no bosses at the end of stages" part.

Do you think about adding some story, maybe some transition screens Toy Story-like or something?

Thanks for your answer.

Sik
01-26-2012, 03:55 PM
I think I read/remember just about the "no bosses at the end of stages" part.
Yeah, because bosses get their own stages.


Do you think about adding some story, maybe some transition screens Toy Story-like or something?
http://projectmd.mdscene.net/story.html

retrospiel
01-26-2012, 05:05 PM
Honestly I think that asking anyone to pay for this piece of crap is outright insulting to the players and treating them like complete morons. There is absolutely no reason why anybody should pay for such an abomination.

You are an ?ß%&3§*#! This would have made a phenomenal game to release on cartridge.

Zebbe
01-26-2012, 05:07 PM
In other words, make a whole new game from scratch?

No, just new levels made from the same graphic packs.


Also fuck it all, I'm tired of all this bullshit:
https://github.com/sikthehedgehog/projectmd

That's right, releasing the game as-is. Will make all development open from now on. You'll be able to snatch new updates as I make them. Will add a link to this to the site as soon as I can (ack, stupid translation to Japanese x_x).

And no, there won't be a single cartridge release, if this wasn't made clear enough. The only way you'll be even getting a cartridge is through a repro or if some Chinese bootlegger decides to make copies on his own. Honestly I think that asking anyone to pay for this piece of crap is outright insulting to the players and treating them like complete morons. There is absolutely no reason why anybody should pay for such an abomination.

And maybe somebody should unpin this thread. I'd be nice to know what's the real interest users have on this game.

I'd pay for this "abomination", seriously, because I enjoy it. I keep my fingers crossed for a completed game one day. Many people here seem to enjoy it, so I guess they would buy it too. I hope you change your mind and decide to release the game on cartridge one day when it is completed.

retrospiel
01-26-2012, 05:14 PM
this is essentially a Super Mario Bros 1 wannabe without all the cool stuff

you mean like 99,9% of all the other NES and MD games we're still playing today ?

Kamahl
01-26-2012, 05:16 PM
I'd pay for this "abomination", seriously, because I enjoy it. I keep my fingers crossed for a completed game one day. Many people here seem to enjoy it, so I guess they would buy it too. I hope you change your mind and decide to release the game on cartridge one day when it is completed.
Hey it's GPL now :p, nothing preventing Watermelon from grabbing it and making it into a cartridge :p *hint* *hint*. Of course it needs to be finished first.

Sik
01-26-2012, 05:39 PM
you mean like 99,9% of all the other NES and MD games we're still playing today ?
First of all, most of those platformers scroll vertically, even the shittiest ones. And those that get played often always included completely new stuff that made them unique. Not to mention, their level design overall is much better than anything in Project MD.


Hey it's GPL now :p, nothing preventing Watermelon from grabbing it and making it into a cartridge :p *hint* *hint*. Of course it needs to be finished first.
Only if they also distribute the soruce code technically =P

Chilly Willy
01-26-2012, 07:28 PM
Really, the only way this would be worth making into a cart is if there were a super-cheap cart available. That's one thing they do on the Atari 8-bit scene - there's a super-cheap cart available for homebrewers to make cheap carts to sell. If the game isn't considered worth paying $50 for, that's okay - maybe $20 is better. :)

Sik
01-26-2012, 07:36 PM
You realize that even $20 is an insult, right? For half that or less you can get much better games. There is no reason to pay so much for this.

And I repeat, I demand this thread to be unpinned. If Sega-16 really cares about it then the thread will be kept afloat. There is no reason to artifically give it any attention by having it at the top of the forum.

Kamahl
01-26-2012, 08:04 PM
The MD homebrew scene needs to reach a point where those carts are available too. $20 games even a hobo like me would buy.


And I repeat, I demand this thread to be unpinned. If Sega-16 really cares about it then the thread will be kept afloat. There is no reason to artifically give it any attention by having it at the top of the forum.

Perhaps the same could be said of all sticky threads.
You steal member's posts, and make them your fans.

Sik
01-26-2012, 09:15 PM
The MD homebrew scene needs to reach a point where those carts are available too. $20 games even a hobo like me would buy.
We'd need more homebrew though for that to work. And I mean something that isn't just tech demos or extremely simple games.

old man
01-26-2012, 10:01 PM
I understand what your saying, but I think your being a little too negative on your work also (pretty typical of artists actually ;) ) Project MD may not do much, but what it does do, it does pretty well. That's more than can be said for a lot of professional games released BITD.

ReBirFh
01-26-2012, 10:31 PM
I don't know what you were thinking when you started to make this game, maybe you set your expectations to high or created a wishlist instead of a game project. That's the only reason I can think for your dislike of your game that IMO, is far from being crap.

To me it was a really nice surprise, the youtube videos make it look much easier than it really is. You really should be proud of the sound engine and Stephanie's controls really well, walking speed and jumping, the most important gameplay aspects in a platformer, are flawless.

Now to some nitpicking...

*The side view of Stephanie makes her hair looks like a Mohawk and when jumping, her arms should be raised when descending and neutral/lowered when jumping (right now it's the opposite).
*The "rebound" seems a bit off, I can't explain exactly what's the problem, I can't really feel or think that I control it. (Sonic and Castle of Illusion are nice examples of this mechanic)
*The "Power of Love" should be separated from the life refill, it sucks to lose a power-up whenever you try to recover your health. Maybe make it works like Zelda's long range sword attack (Full health = Power of Love).
*Related to the above problem, maybe make Stephanie stock the power ups she gets and only lose the currently equipped when she gets hurt.
*Audio cue to know when the invincibility power up is going to end.
*The ground effect of the first stage is really nice, is it too intensive? some of the stages would benefit from a better sense of depth even if this meant taking away the reflection.
*Frozen Memories was harder to me than any of the 3 stages after it (Pixelated World, Bright Darkness, Crazy Shapes).
*I don't think the name Pixelated World fits it. Some suggestions: RF World, Bad Connection, White Noise or Composite Output.
*The Boss fight will be a good one, it took me some time until I got the timing of the jump right (and notice I couldn't hurt her...).
*Ether Network and Waterlava are awesome but those "energy platforms" in Ether Network are too unforgiving, I simply can't reliably time my jump...

I was going to do a rundown of each stage but I will stop here before my grammar damage your brains.

Keep working on it and don't judge it too hard, it's already ages better than most homebrews for dead systems and can compete with some commercially available games of the time.

Sik
01-26-2012, 11:19 PM
*The "rebound" seems a bit off, I can't explain exactly what's the problem, I can't really feel or think that I control it. (Sonic and Castle of Illusion are nice examples of this mechanic)
This is actually more complex than it seems. The variable "jump" mechanics actually don't apply just when jumping, but whenever Stephany is going up, so holding up the jump button (and for how long you do it) actually affects the rebound. This is extremely important in Crazy Shapes since it also affects the bumpers and not being able to control it can render the level unbeatable.


*The "Power of Love" should be separated from the life refill, it sucks to lose a power-up whenever you try to recover your health. Maybe make it works like Zelda's long range sword attack (Full health = Power of Love).
Actually... it's a damn weird trade-off. If you have no power-up, it's a reward. If you had a power-up and you don't have full energy, you recover health at the expense of your power-up (like a punishment for not being more careful). If you get it with a power-up and full health... you're an idiot =P Unless you're trying to racket up points (since you always get 500 points).

So it's all a matter of what situation you're in. The heart power-up is actually useful in some levels (mainly those where there are several enemies lined up horizontally or near horizontally), since the heart attack can go through multiple enemies.


*Audio cue to know when the invincibility power up is going to end.
Actually the invincibility is meant to have its own music playing in the background. It's just that Oerg didn't make it yet.


*The ground effect of the first stage is really nice, is it too intensive? some of the stages would benefit from a better sense of depth even if this meant taking away the reflection.
The reflection abuses the specific set up of that level. Actually it's all pretty much set up for it - the 3D ground, the sprite and tilemap priorities, etc. It wasn't an intensive effect, but it really can't be done in other levels, not in the way it's done there.

Unless you talk about the 3D ground instead of the reflection. It isn't really very intensive... but it eats up lots of VRAM (it takes up about 8KB, and it's for something simple like that grid, if it was a more complex pattern it could end up requiring more).

Also, honestly the 3D ground per-se doesn't look 3D. Sure, nice parallax, but it doesn't feel 3D. This feeling also happens in other games that do the same FX. What really makes it feel 3D in Project MD is the reflection, since suddenly you get a feeling of the depth of the objects. It plays the same role as shadows in 3D games, actually. In fact, I'm even considering doing something like this on a real 3D game because of how well it works at conveying a 3D feeling.


*Frozen Memories was harder to me than any of the 3 stages after it (Pixelated World, Bright Darkness, Crazy Shapes).
No, it isn't (Crazy Shapes and Pixelated World require very good reflexes and very well timed jumps, moreso than Frozen Memories), though the difficulty curve isn't linear (this is done on purpose). After every three levels the difficulty steps down a bit. This is because that's where the bosses are meant to be.


*The Boss fight will be a good one, it took me some time until I got the timing of the jump right (and notice I couldn't hurt her...).
Yeah, it's incomplete. But yeah... Don't expect it to be easy. Every time she hits the floor there will be a shock wave, and in the move where she flies at the top she will drop lots of bombs... Dark Stephany is merciless.


*Ether Network and Waterlava are awesome but those "energy platforms" in Ether Network are too unforgiving, I simply can't reliably time my jump...
It's easier than you think, you just need to learn the timing. In fact, those situations with two pulses in a row are actually timed so you fall perfectly when you switch between them. And no, I won't make them slower - that actually makes it harder to land on them. I'm not kidding, I have tried it before.

And Ether Network is one of the latest levels, so honestly, do you expect it to be easy?

EDIT: also wait, are you jumping on them? Yeah no, bad move, you're meant to directly fall on them.

EDIT 2: also any ideas for the background for Pixelated World? I removed the spinning lights because they were too annoying, but just the static looks too plain.

Anonymouse
01-27-2012, 02:00 PM
In other words, make a whole new game from scratch?

Also fuck it all, I'm tired of all this bullshit:
https://github.com/sikthehedgehog/projectmd

That's right, releasing the game as-is. Will make all development open from now on. You'll be able to snatch new updates as I make them. Will add a link to this to the site as soon as I can (ack, stupid translation to Japanese x_x).

And no, there won't be a single cartridge release, if this wasn't made clear enough. The only way you'll be even getting a cartridge is through a repro or if some Chinese bootlegger decides to make copies on his own. Honestly I think that asking anyone to pay for this piece of crap is outright insulting to the players and treating them like complete morons. There is absolutely no reason why anybody should pay for such an abomination.

And maybe somebody should unpin this thread. I'd be nice to know what's the real interest users have on this game.

Sik someone really needs to say this to you: please shut up! You are like a crying baby all the time. All you seem to do is down cry your work and get pissed of at people who say its good. Yet when you receive enough praise and people telling you that you are wrong you perk up abit and start work on it some more. Then the cycle continues all over again.

I have followed your game for a while and really like it. I have even shown it to my friends over seas when i visit them. But I am really starting to get tired of all this and it has actually put me off your work. I know this sounds harsh but its about time someone told you.

I will probably get flamed for this but it needed to be said. Needless to say I still regard you as one of top homebrew coders for the Mega Drive.

Sik
01-27-2012, 02:20 PM
All you seem to do is down cry your work and get pissed of at people who say its good.
Probably because the game is a complete piece of shit. I have done much better stuff before - both on the Mega Drive and on other platforms - and I can tell you, there is absolutely no excuse for the complete piece of crap this game is. I seriously can't believe people seem to like what's essentially SMB1 without all the good stuff, especially when there are much better games on the platform, and especially when other homebrew releases have raised the bar very high.

You're all happy just because it's completely new homebrew and it isn't a RPG. Honestly that isn't a good reason to be happy. You all should look at it like a generic game and completely ignore the situation surrounding it. That's the only way you'll appreciate the game for what it is: an extremely boring generic platformer. Its only redeeming point is that the physics don't feel like a Chinese pirate game.


Yet when you receive enough praise and people telling you that you are wrong you perk up abit and start work on it some more.
I'm only working on it again because I lost a bet against Oerg, nothing else. Otherwise the game would have been as stalled as usual. Oh, and by the way, me uploading the videos and starting the site? It wasn't for you, actually. It's me testing something else. You all know enough about Project MD already.


I have followed your game for a while and really like it.
Stop viewing it through homebrew-tinted glasses.


But I am really starting to get tired of all this and it has actually put me off your work.
Then stop being an idiot. Recommend people against playing the game. That's what I have been trying to do and nobody gets it. But I guess I'm just being a massive troll and should be banned from Sega-16. I was banned from SpritesMind for being a complete asshole against Shiru after all, and here the only thing I do is argue against all other users as well.


Needless to say I still regard you as one of top homebrew coders for the Mega Drive.
That's the biggest lie I have ever heard. I can't do shit properly, I have never finished anything in my life, and every single thing I make turns out to be a giant turd. Also how the fuck am I meant to be one of the top homebrew coders when all other homebrew coders seem to have all done at least one thing that's much more awesome than anything in Project MD?

TrekkiesUnite118
01-27-2012, 02:42 PM
I wouldn't really use Pier Solar as a means to measure your work Sik. That was a game that was in the works for years and had a team of people working on. Your project is something that just you have been working on. So it's a bit expected that it's not quite up to par with homebrew releases like Pier Solar. One person can't be expected to be perfect in everything.

However I will say this about what I've seen of your game. It has promise and could be something great if you let it become that. Right now it does have some issues and limitations like you have mentioned, but at the same time it has interesting level design, rather impressive graphical effects, and great animation.

Sik
01-27-2012, 02:50 PM
I wouldn't really use Pier Solar as a means to measure your work Sik. That was a game that was in the works for years and had a team of people working on. Your project is something that just you have been working on. So it's a bit expected that it's not quite up to par with homebrew releases like Pier Solar. One person can't be expected to be perfect in everything.
RPGs also require much more resources than a platformer, not to mention Project MD also has been in development since 2010 (actually late since the last days of 2009). And even then, that isn't a good excuse. There's nothing preventing me from teaming up with other people to work on the game if I want and render that point moot. Heck, it isn't the first time I'm asked to get more people on board to redo stuff they don't like.

Also, if we don't aim at the top, then we'll always get stuck with mediocre games. I'd always prefer to measure games against everything out there and completely forget its target platform, because that's something that shouldn't matter.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-27-2012, 02:58 PM
So you've been working on this by yourself for 2 years where as Pier Solar was a group effort that took about 6 years to complete. That's a pretty big contrast. No one is perfect you know.

Oerg866
01-27-2012, 03:29 PM
I'll just state my personal opinion: I sort of thought this would have happened at one point. Judging from all the rage posts and comments I got through YIM and stuff like that I think Sik just had a nervous breakdown. I'm not sure if anyone will excatly care about working on the game in open source state either (other than Sik).

BTW: thanks for the nice comments about the music.

Me? I feel a bit screwed but i can't really blame him either because i've been observing his psychical condition for a while now... :/

Anonymouse
01-27-2012, 03:45 PM
Then stop being an idiot. Recommend people against playing the game. That's what I have been trying to do and nobody gets it. But I guess I'm just being a massive troll and should be banned from Sega-16. I was banned from SpritesMind for being a complete asshole against Shiru after all, and here the only thing I do is argue against all other users as well.



Sik are you not reading the words I write? The problem isn't the game, the problem is you. You have ruined it for yourself.

Anyways im done with this, I cant handle someone moaning all the time. no wonder you were banned, you drag everyone else down with you.

Sik
01-27-2012, 03:53 PM
OK, can admins please ban me from here too now? =D

Baloo
01-27-2012, 04:59 PM
Request Granted.

Gonna unsticky this now too. I'm not really sure what that guy's problem is/was.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-27-2012, 05:14 PM
Was it really necessary to ban him? He gave some pretty good info regarding programming on the Genesis.

Anonymouse
01-27-2012, 05:30 PM
Was it really necessary to ban him? He gave some pretty good info regarding programming on the Genesis.

Yes i think it was. He belittled anyone who complimented his game, basically saying that they no nothing about gaming and homebrew. he ruined the whole atmosphere of this place.

StarMist
01-27-2012, 05:34 PM
Request Granted.

Gonna unsticky this now too. I'm not really sure what that guy's problem is/was.
I'm hoping this is temporary but if not at least he demanded it.
I don't see any problem in his behaviour other than freely releasing that other chap's music along with his own contributions. Many games are garbage, homebrew or commercial, and the majority of everything else created on the planet besides; it's agreeable to actually find someone not publishing his own inventions when he thinks them failures or even mediocre. What precisely his standards are doesn't matter. And it's very hard to discover a reason so many here would be praising his game outside its nature as a new game for the Genesis developed by somebody on a site they frequent--unless one were willing to chalk it up to all the crappy commercial Genesis games they like, which games he also presumably wanted to best, and which attitude he never struck me as enough of a jerk to pronounce. So he put the blame on himself where it ought to be. Perhaps he demanded the banning as an ironclad way of preventing himself from logging in and subjecting himself to more flattery.

Chilly Willy
01-27-2012, 05:42 PM
I think banning him was a little harsh - we've seen much worse folks who don't get banned. Devs can be a bit "tempermental" - even I have tossed a fit here once or twice, but I do try to apologize to the folks. Sik is a good dev, no matter his own feelings on the matter, but he can be a bit touchy on the whole matter. I guess I'm just more used to dealing with folks like that. :)

Barone
01-27-2012, 05:56 PM
Yes i think it was. He belittled anyone who complimented his game, basically saying that they no nothing about gaming and homebrew. he ruined the whole atmosphere of this place.
You were also crying like a baby for being roughly treated by him. IMO you could just leaved the thread as it was or included him in your ignore list.

The game is his work, I think he had the right to praise or blame himself for that as much as he wanted to. If he was faking that harsh attitude, I really don't mind since it's just the Internet.

IMO he was just going against the "goody-goody" hype, I also agree with some of his words like:
"You're all happy just because it's completely new homebrew and it isn't a RPG. Honestly that isn't a good reason to be happy. You all should look at it like a generic game and completely ignore the situation surrounding it. That's the only way you'll appreciate the game for what it is: an extremely boring generic platformer. Its only redeeming point is that the physics don't feel like a Chinese pirate game."
It's a harsh way to see the things but he could do it.

By the way, you ruined this thread until he comes back (I hope the ban is just temporary).
It was very cool to have the opportunity to talk with the guy who was doing something like that. OTOH, it's very boring to talk with childish guys that can't take a couple of harsh words.

Just my 2 cents for you.

djshok
01-27-2012, 06:00 PM
That's too bad. I genuinely enjoyed Project MD and thought that Sik was a valuable and knowledeable member here. :(

Zebbe
01-27-2012, 06:11 PM
Oerg866: I'm listening to your music of Project MD right now. I love it! Fantastic arpeggios and melodies :). I hope you manage to bring some light into Sik's dark tunnel, I think you are the only one who would be able to do so here.

Oerg866
01-27-2012, 06:15 PM
I.... er.... Whaaaa.

Please don't take what he said to you serious, I'm begging you all.

I haven't lost all hope about him, but it seems he has suffered from a mental breakdown.

Barone
01-27-2012, 06:24 PM
That's too bad. I genuinely enjoyed Project MD and thought that Sik was a valuable and knowledeable member here. :(


Oerg866: I'm listening to your music of Project MD right now. I love it! Fantastic arpeggios and melodies :). I hope you manage to bring some light into Sik's dark tunnel, I think you are the only one who would be able to do so here.


I.... er.... Whaaaa.

Please don't take what he said to you serious, I'm begging you all.

I haven't lost all hope about him, but it seems he has suffered from a mental breakdown.
He seemed worked up and depressed. The ban will not help...

http://www.just-pooh.com/assets/pictures/pictures/338.gif

Baloo
01-27-2012, 06:56 PM
To be honest guys, I'm not sure what to make of someone who asks to be banned as well as reporting his own posts. If he wants to be unbanned and behave, he can just e-mail me.

Though it seemed to me like he was just seeking for attention and pity for non-existent problems "I was banned elsewhere blah blah blah, this game sucks you're not supposed to be complimenting it."

Joe Redifer
01-27-2012, 07:17 PM
Well, that was odd. All I can say as a another person who likes to be creative is that sometimes stress does get the better of you, especially when you're doing the lion's share of the work. As for the game itself, it is kind of fun to play. I don't think it would sell hundreds if it were on a real cartridge, but it is a fun romp to see some of the things the system can do. I think Sik would make a good member of a development team instead of a one-man army. Get some other good members in there and he'd help bust out a great game with incredible effects, I feel. Unfortunately these days that's easier said than done.

djshok
01-27-2012, 07:28 PM
I hope he's ok. Psychological troubles are nothing to take lightly.

Barone
01-27-2012, 07:34 PM
To be honest guys, I'm not sure what to make of someone who asks to be banned as well as reporting his own posts. If he wants to be unbanned and behave, he can just e-mail me.

Though it seemed to me like he was just seeking for attention and pity for non-existent problems "I was banned elsewhere blah blah blah, this game sucks you're not supposed to be complimenting it."
I think you did what you should have done.
He asked for, he took it.

That's why I dislike Anonymouse's attitude. The guy looked pretty worked up, pushing him was not a good thing to do.
If his attitude was just a self-pity's number, OK, he acted like an idiot and it just hurt himself.
But if he has serious problems in his real life, well, that's a bit different IMO. Everybody has problems, I know that, but also everybody is susceptible to make mistakes and have very bad days.
As I don't see he acting like that frequently, I suppose that something more serious than a self-pity attitude is going on.

Anyway, for me it's like: What was his crime? To share his awesome looking and sounding homebrew with us and blaming it? A couple of harsh answers to common posts (maybe too common for his taste) about a game?


Well, that was odd. All I can say as a another person who likes to be creative is that sometimes stress does get the better of you, especially when you're doing the lion's share of the work. As for the game itself, it is kind of fun to play. I don't think it would sell hundreds if it were on a real cartridge, but it is a fun romp to see some of the things the system can do. I think Sik would make a good member of a development team instead of a one-man army. Get some other good members in there and he'd help bust out a great game with incredible effects, I feel. Unfortunately these days that's easier said than done.
This.


I hope he's ok. Psychological troubles are nothing to take lightly.
Same here.

retrospiel
01-27-2012, 07:45 PM
SMB1 had many more types of enemies, alternate paths in form of pipes (and even warp pipes that took you to other levels), hidden items all over the place, four times as many levels, much better level design overall, a much faster pace, etc.

Project MD reminds me more of Pulseman or Socket (Time Dominator 1st) rather than Super Mario Bros. 1.


Honestly I think that asking anyone to pay for this piece of crap is outright insulting to the players and treating them like complete morons. There is absolutely no reason why anybody should pay for such an abomination.

A lot of games were nowhere near as complex as Project MD but were still excellent full price MD games:

Ms. Pac-Man
Flicky
Space Invaders 90
Columns
Zoop
Zoom
Sokoban / Shove-It
Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine / Puyo Puyo
Klax
Volfied / Ultimate Qix
Aquatic Games
etc. pp.

Btw: I think games like Alex Kidd or Altered Beast don't allow vertical scrolling either. Probably a few more that I cant remember.

Either way, personally I thought that Project MD already played better than a vaaast portion of the MD library.

Not to mention its visual and aural qualities. :love:

Melf
01-27-2012, 09:42 PM
I don't know what was bothering him, but he really didn't have to project it all onto the forum. Everyone was really enthusiastic about his work, and even if PMD was going nowhere, he could have used that momentum and positive energy for his next project. This could have been a learning experience, and he instead turned it into a shitfest of bitterness.

He's welcome to come back whenever he wants, since he requested to be banned, but I really hope he sorts his shit out before he decides to come back (if he does).

sega16
01-28-2012, 12:08 AM
I was just reading the last few pages and just can not understand how anyone could say that this is a bad game especially if you are the creator.
It may just be me because I seem to be proud of anything "good" that I do as in get done anyone remember robotnik? http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?16797-Dr-robotnik-%28the-video-game%29-for-the-sega-genesis Well When I released that alpha release of robotnik I was in the exact opposite position of sik I was proud of myself but some (not all) people were not happy with the alpha release of robotnik. I seem to be a person that has a few genesis related projects started but not finished so I was proud of myself for at least releasing something.Also I am more of a person that is proud of anything that I do.

goldenband
01-28-2012, 01:31 AM
tl;dr alert:

Through the years, I've had a few friends and colleagues in the creative arts who have had very public meltdowns. Usually it happens at a critical point in a particular project, or even in their careers, when they have to choose between facing the thing that causes them anxiety (whatever it is) and blowing the whole thing up instead. So they deliberately alienate their supporters, burn their bridges, and alternate between aggro and self-pity/self-loathing -- because all of these things are easier, and safer, than facing whatever's scaring the shit out of them.

There are so many writers out there who burn their novels, composers who leave their pieces unfinished, programmers who get 80% of a fantastic project done and abandon it. Partly it's because the hardest part of creative work is often finishing what you start (and perhaps that's especially true of programming, on a technical level). But it's also because as long as something is unfinished, it still is filled with all the potentialities of what-it-might-become -- it still could be perfected, could expand limitlessly, because that potential dwells in the realm of imagination. As soon as you finish something, it's fixed, determinate, mortal, imperfect.

But of course that's the only way to do anything worthwhile in life: accepting that whatever you do, it will "fall short of the glory of God", and reside in the realm of mortal imperfection. What's more, it'll be subject to criticism, contempt, attacks, and belittlement, and you can no longer say "Well, I was going to do this" or "Well, I hadn't really finished that part yet". There's nothing to hide behind: you made it, and it's yours, and you're accountable for its triumphs and shortcomings.

In principle I think it's a great thing to strive for excellence, but if you fixate on that ideal, you'll make yourself crazy and never get anything done. Great creative artists don't sit down and say "I'm going to make something excellent today", unless they're pompous asses who are more interested in personal glory and ego gratification than hard work (and who invariably pump out mediocrity when they do finish things). The genesis of really great work often comes from the desire to solve a specific technical problem, or to realize some sort of creative vision -- and really great work probably needs to have both of those things. Aspirations to glory are strictly secondary -- most of us have them, but while they may help to motivate us, they don't solve problems in the work, and frankly they tend to get in the way.

Excellence, IMHO, comes from mastery of the process, from trust in one's own intuition, from the willingness to work your ass off and to do so without any form of ego involvement (and that includes self-pity and self-loathing just as much as it includes delusional arrogance and misplaced self-confidence), and most of all from the willingness to fail, repeatedly and publicly if necessary, until you get it right. A lot of potentially great artists can do almost all of this, but stumble over the failure thing: they want their work to be beyond reproach, and thereby fuck it up completely, or never finish it to begin with.

Anyway, blah blah blah. tl;dr: Perfection sucks, self-torture sucks, a good vacuum sucks.

SEGA.GENESIS1989
01-28-2012, 01:54 AM
That is a nice explanation goldenband. I was a little shocked to come across this thread. Sik is quite a talented individual. It was really interesting to see him tweak the game and feature it on his Youtube channel. Since I do not know Sik on a personal level and therefore will not comment his state of mind.

I will instead expand on what goldenband said about the personality traits of a perfectionist. Perfectionists tend not to ask for help but prefer to deal with things on their own. The reason why they behave the way they do is because if gives them a sense of control over certain dynamics in a given situation. When you have a complex such as this, you are the source of your own anxiety. If your efforts fall below your capabilities you tend to become very self-deprecating. If there is anyone who does suffer from this personality trait, there is a book that I would highly recommend titled "Feel the Fear". It's a relatively short book that actually forces you to look into your own behavior and confront anxiety head on. It's a nice guide for anyone that is looking to overcome fear or anxiety and change their personality for the better. through trial and error, you eventually learn to confront the feeling of anxiety and gradually tackle it head on rather than running away from it. Most people, when confronted with a sense of fear or anxiety will run away from it. Over time this becomes a habitual reaction that becomes harder and harder to overcome the longer it persists.

Guntz
01-28-2012, 03:42 AM
Just finished reading this thread from page 10.

You know, Sik was a cool dude and his game was awesome, until the last 4 pages of this thread. With that said, fuck that guy. Seriously. He needed to get the hell off his high perfectionist horse and appreciate what he had. Barely any of the comments in this thread were bad, yet he interpreted them as offensive and went off on a temper tantrum. That's the sort of thing a 10 year old does, not a 20-something homebrew programmer. Yeah it's a shame a good programmer has given up and left his kick ass game to rot, but after his actions here, he'll get no sympathy from me. Somebody really should have shocked him back into reality, too bad I popped in here too late.

kool kitty89
01-28-2012, 05:05 AM
I think banning him was a little harsh - we've seen much worse folks who don't get banned. Devs can be a bit "tempermental" - even I have tossed a fit here once or twice, but I do try to apologize to the folks. Sik is a good dev, no matter his own feelings on the matter, but he can be a bit touchy on the whole matter. I guess I'm just more used to dealing with folks like that. :)
I can think of some worse cases of homebrew devs like that too . . . especially in the Jaguar scene. (including at least one who ended up being banned from Atariage per his own request iirc)

I hope he sorts out whatever he's dealing with and eventually comes back.


And a comment on the game itself:
I can see the self-criticism on the simplistic/generic level design and gameplay, but it's still a neat little game with very cool technical aspects/effects and some nice art/character/enemy design. (certainly not a high-end look, but nicely animated and cute/quirky . . . a sort of odd fusion of classic Japanese US and European art styling from the early 90s) . . . And for that matter, the 1-man design team (or similarly small teams) aspect is more like some of the old European computer game developers too. (albeit those obviously tended to be in a more commercial timescale -in terms of aggressive development and release times)

And honestly, things like Crownland on the A8 are probably most impressive for their technical aspects than anything else (the gameplay certainly isn't amazing compared to a wealth of other platformers -albeit on the A8 alone it obviously fares better), and on top of that, there's a ton of other relatively simple homebrew games (let alone hacks) that are out there too. (especially the freeware stuff)

retrospiel
01-28-2012, 06:22 AM
Usually it happens at a critical point in a particular project, or even in their careers, when they have to choose between facing the thing that causes them anxiety (whatever it is) and blowing the whole thing up instead. So they deliberately alienate their supporters, burn their bridges, and alternate between aggro and self-pity/self-loathing -- because all of these things are easier, and safer, than facing whatever's scaring the shit out of them.

There are so many writers out there who burn their novels, composers who leave their pieces unfinished, programmers who get 80% of a fantastic project done and abandon it. Partly it's because the hardest part of creative work is often finishing what you start (and perhaps that's especially true of programming, on a technical level). But it's also because as long as something is unfinished, it still is filled with all the potentialities of what-it-might-become -- it still could be perfected, could expand limitlessly, because that potential dwells in the realm of imagination. As soon as you finish something, it's fixed, determinate, mortal, imperfect.

This is so true.

matteus
01-29-2012, 09:31 AM
Mental instability in those with a high IQ is not uncommon, I hope he feels better soon!

makinagenesis
01-29-2012, 12:03 PM
what a shame, seemed a decent lil project. I hope they guy doesn't go chop his bell end off like van gogh did though

sik is obviously suffering from mental issues, lets hope he gets over them and gets back on track,

Oerg866
01-29-2012, 03:05 PM
NULL

djshok
01-29-2012, 04:17 PM
Well I certainly hope that someone finishes this game. From that last version that was released it seemed almost done. Just a few levels that needed finishing up, ie: the boss fights. Everything else was great. I'd volunteer to work on it myself, but I have no coding knowledge whatsoever and I'm sure it would take at least a year if not more for me to learn even the basics, let alone how to be good at it. Anyway, this is a great project that deserves to be finished. I sincerely hope someone here can step up to the challenge.

eddiespruce
01-29-2012, 04:23 PM
I also wish I could finish this game, but I too cannot program, and I'll never be able to because I don't know math.

Kamahl
01-29-2012, 05:07 PM
and I'll never be able to because I don't know math.
You don't actually need to know the math, just find the formulas on google and apply them ;).

eddiespruce
01-29-2012, 05:25 PM
You don't actually need to know the math, just find the formulas on google and apply them ;).

Yeah, but how do I make sense of formulas? I did the most basic math one could take in High School, and I just barely graduated. I especially hated geometry, as it never made any sense to me.

Kamahl
01-29-2012, 05:38 PM
Yeah, but how do I make sense of formulas? I did the most basic math one could take in High School, and I just barely graduated. I especially hated geometry, as it never made any sense to me.
Depending on the game you make, the math can be as light as just adding and subtracting stuff (space invaders for example :p). Project MD requires a little more than that though, obviously.

makinagenesis
01-29-2012, 06:07 PM
fuck it, i know my times tables. this project is MINE!!!!!!!!!!!

Chilly Willy
01-29-2012, 08:07 PM
Wikipedia is good for programming concepts that you might not already know. Good example - taxicab distance. If you don't know the term, go type it into the search box at wikipedia. :)

Billy2600
01-29-2012, 08:18 PM
I too would love to take the source to this and run with it (into something original), but my problem would be learning assembly.

eddiespruce
01-29-2012, 08:23 PM
Wikipedia is good for programming concepts that you might not already know. Good example - taxicab distance. If you don't know the term, go type it into the search box at wikipedia. :)

I typed it in, and some kind of geometry came up, with a bunch of formulas with strange shaped letter E's and other stuff. I have no idea what any of it means.

Kamahl
01-30-2012, 06:05 AM
I typed it in, and some kind of geometry came up, with a bunch of formulas with strange shaped letter E's and other stuff. I have no idea what any of it means.
Basically it's the distance from one point to another based on the "staircase" movement (no diagonals). It's the sum (the strange E) of all the "step" sizes.

Flygon
01-30-2012, 06:27 AM
68k isn't that hard to learn the basics of, it's just most helpful to have someone rather experienced at it with you to help.

And, compared to the other assembler languages I've seen... it's probably the most understandable. :p

Unfortunately, I forgot everything I learned about 68k (and we didn't even really touch on the other parts of the hardware, it was basically "How to figure out where the game's loading stuff from"), sorry guys. :daze:

TrekkiesUnite118
01-30-2012, 12:51 PM
Basically it's the distance from one point to another based on the "staircase" movement (no diagonals). It's the sum (the strange E) of all the "step" sizes.

I don't remember dealing with it in programming, but I did deal with it in math classes. Basically the total distance traveled when going somewhere by taxi in a city who's roads are in a perfect grid to then calculate the cost.

That's at least the analogy from which it gets it's name.

Kamahl
01-30-2012, 02:08 PM
I don't remember dealing with it in programming
It's the fastest way to find out which of 2 points is closest to a certain point on systems with processors that aren't good at multiplying.

Chilly Willy
01-30-2012, 02:36 PM
I don't remember dealing with it in programming, but I did deal with it in math classes. Basically the total distance traveled when going somewhere by taxi in a city who's roads are in a perfect grid to then calculate the cost.

That's at least the analogy from which it gets it's name.

This is the technical answer.


It's the fastest way to find out which of 2 points is closest to a certain point on systems with processors that aren't good at multiplying.

And this is the REAL answer. :D

Most folks remember the disance formula from high school math/physics classes - the one requiring multiplication and square roots. That's a bit much for wimpy little 8-bit processors, so taxicab distance tends to get used instead. The idea is to not check ALL bad guys on the screens, just the close ones, but if you use the traditional formula for distance on a Z80 or 6502, you spend so many cycles that you might as well have just checked them all. Taxicab distance allows you to quickly determine which baddies you should be concerned with.

eddiespruce
01-30-2012, 02:42 PM
Most folks remember the disance formula from high school math/physics classes - the one requiring multiplication and square roots. That's a bit much for wimpy little 8-bit processors, so taxicab distance tends to get used instead. The idea is to not check ALL bad guys on the screens, just the close ones, but if you use the traditional formula for distance on a Z80 or 6502, you spend so many cycles that you might as well have just checked them all. Taxicab distance allows you to quickly determine which baddies you should be concerned with.

Unfortunately, I never learned any of that in high school, as I didn't do physics, and I only did Basic math, and nearly failed it.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-30-2012, 02:59 PM
Whats wrong with your schools? That should have at least been covered in basic geometry at the high school level if not the middle school level.

TmEE
01-30-2012, 03:02 PM
I certainly did not have taxicab stuff in my math classes when I had school. I did come up with similiar solution on my own though

TrekkiesUnite118
01-30-2012, 03:03 PM
As I said we didn't handle it in the exact same way as it's handled in programming, but we did deal with the concept in word problems in 7th and 8th grade math.

eddiespruce
01-30-2012, 03:05 PM
Whats wrong with your schools? That should have at least been covered in basic geometry at the high school level if not the middle school level.

We did basic geometry, but all I can remember is the teachers talking about Area and Parameter, which never made any sense to me. Geometry was the hardest part about math for me, and I failed EVERY geometry test I ever had. Thankfully, we only did geometry up until grade 11, we didn't do any geometry in grade 12.

I guess I'll never be able to program anything.:(

TrekkiesUnite118
01-30-2012, 03:14 PM
I was the exact opposite, I found geometry to be one of the easier aspects of math. Now calculus, that was a nightmare.

eddiespruce
01-30-2012, 03:17 PM
I was the exact opposite, I found geometry to be one of the easier aspects of math. Now calculus, that was a nightmare.

We never did calculus in my high school. The only type of math I was able to do at all and get a decent mark at was algebra, and pretty much everything I learned is gone, and I'd have to learn it all over again.

makinagenesis
01-30-2012, 04:39 PM
in my school, they did maths which included drug dealing denominations, to fit in with the current trend and be a little more ' down with the kids'

... it worked out well.... 8 out of my 24 other former form class classmates are now currently drug dealers and living quite the highlife ...

Chilly Willy
01-30-2012, 05:39 PM
While most schools have all this math, most students never take those classes - they're for "nerds" after all. ;)

I knew kids who graduated from high school having barely covered fractions in math, much less geometry or algebra or calculus.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-30-2012, 05:43 PM
I didn't take calculus until college, and it completely kicked my ass. Though I think that has more to do with the fact I had teachers who could barely speak English. If I had teachers more like the ones I had in High School I probably would have done better.

Kamahl
01-30-2012, 05:56 PM
Calculus was the easiest of the "maths" I had in college, but that's probably because my teacher was the best maths teacher anyone could ever hope for.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-30-2012, 06:08 PM
Yeah, in my college calculus courses the instructors cared more about the correct answer than if you knew the process for solving the problem. My problem is I typically make small math mistakes that I don't catch and then throw off my answers. I usually follow the process correctly but I may have flipped a sign by accident or I might have screwed up on something else along the way to throw off my answer.

Which is why I really liked how my high school math classes worked. We were allowed to use a calculator on tests, not one that you could program, just one that could do basic math and some trig functions. This made it so you focused less on memorizing arbitrary values and more on how to actually solve the problem. So when I could do it that way I'd usually catch my self making those simple math mistakes when I'd be going through the steps on my calculator. My college classes wanted us to actually have entire sine, cosine and tangent tables memorized, not just common angles, but all of them. Where as in my high school classes my teachers would either allow us to use our calculators to find those kind of values or show us how to go through and figure it out without resorting to memorizing a huge table of values.

Kamahl
01-30-2012, 07:00 PM
Memorizing numbers? HA! I wish. All we got were x's and y's and some a's right next to them ;).


My college classes wanted us to actually have entire sine, cosine and tangent tables memorized, not just common angles, but all of them.
That's really dumb, we couldn't use a calculator but we never had to deal with uncommon angles. If at any point you got a strange value (if it wasn't just a goddamn letter) inside a sin(), you likely did something wrong :p.
Oh well, I suppose I need to thank my calculus teacher for that. Not only did the man have an amazing passion for maths that literally oozed out of him (he was constantly sweating), but he knew what was important and what wasn't (and memorizing tables of sin and cos is useless for a software engineer), and he also understood there were a lot of people that had Matemática B (essentially simplified math) and needed help understanding stuff like derivations and other more complex mathematical stuff.
The man made me enjoy maths for a year, that's an accomplishment really.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-30-2012, 07:51 PM
Yeah, I at first thought I did something wrong and asked the teacher if I should have arrived at that value in a sine which was in an in class exercise and he said "Yes, now calculate it out."

In high school we sometimes had those pop up but they were usually at the end of the problem where the teacher would say "Writing just sin(x) is an acceptable answer for this question."

old man
01-30-2012, 10:05 PM
What bugs me about math is all the weird notations. I can never remember what all those funny E's and squiggly lines mean. And that taxicab formula is stupid easy, but wikipedia makes it look complicated. I figured it out in my head, wondered what all the hoopla was about, then looked at wikipedia and went WTF? It was only after checking other sites and having my own idea reexplained to me (albeit: a bit more polished dt = |x2 - x1| + |Y2 - Y1|) that I realized I was right. Anyway, I like bounding boxes. Check for a possible collision on Y first, then check x when you get a hit.

SEGA.GENESIS1989
01-30-2012, 11:37 PM
Kamahl, I'd be interested to hear how your teacher managed to make math so enjoyable for you?

In my opinion most kids learn to detest math because the instructor can't be bothered to take the time to explain the intricacies of the equation. Math is a relatively dry subject. As you persue some of the higher maths, the subject can get a little confusing. And sometimes, the student simply needs to be walked through some of the basics which most teachers can't be bothered to do. They expect that the textbook to teach the student once they leave the classroom.

eddiespruce
01-31-2012, 12:02 AM
Kamahl, I'd be interested to hear how your teacher managed to make math so enjoyable for you?

In my opinion most kids learn to detest math because the instructor can't be bothered to take the time to explain the intricacies of the equation. Math is a relatively dry subject. As you persue some of the higher maths, the subject can get a little confusing. And sometimes, the student simply needs to be walked through some of the basics which most teachers can't be bothered to do. They expect that the textbook to teach the student once they leave the classroom.

Exactly. Really, I would love to be able to understand math, but I would need someone to sit down and explain it to me in a way I could understand, and then give me many, many examples to practice with. The math teacher I had in both grade 11 and 12 was horrible at teaching math, he would mark down just one equation on the board, and say to me, "Now you know how to do it", but of course, I had no clue, and that teacher spend most of every math class sitting on the edge of his desk, talking to the girls the whole time.

Maybe it's not me at fault, maybe I just had a bunch of shitty teachers. Although, the fact that I didn't care about my education while I was in school, and the fact that I pretty much never paid any attention might also have had something to do with it.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-31-2012, 12:32 AM
One thing my favorite math teacher I had in high school did was every Monday we'd start the first 15 minutes of class with a problem involving something he did over the weekend. For example one weekend he was helping his neighbor put up a shed and used that as an example to teach trig concepts for getting angles and measurements right for the roof. Things like that make you think of ways to use it outside of class, and then you tend to try and use it more in your daily life making it seem more important and useful.

TmEE
01-31-2012, 07:26 AM
My math teacher was awesome, knew the stuff and could teach it nicely, but my brain could take that information in at the school pace... when I began understanding the thing we began looking at another, and end result is I know nothing much...
But it has helped me on finding out my own way to the problem, it may not be as pretty but is certainly working and in many cases faster haha

Kamahl
01-31-2012, 10:11 AM
Kamahl, I'd be interested to hear how your teacher managed to make math so enjoyable for you?
Note that by "enjoy" I mean "not making me want to kill myself".
He had a lot of energy while teaching, so we managed to stay awake. He understood that engineering students are not like math students, so he gave practical examples, and tried his best to contextualize stuff. He also answered questions in a very clear manner, even stuff that I thought "wow, the guy asking wasn't paying any attention". Basically he treated us like we were smart at everything but math XD.

old man
01-31-2012, 09:14 PM
Reiterating the point I was trying to make above, most math concepts are actually pretty simple. They're just so clouded by obfuscation and theorems that it makes them hard to learn.

Flygon
02-04-2012, 08:09 AM
Whenever I did math, I was fantastic at calculating it. Which constantly had the teachers and parents suggesting I take harder courses, and get disappointed when I don't do as well as they expect.

Calculating math != Being a living math concept storage device.

In fact, my memory as a whole seems to have something against me. Sure, I can pick up concepts easily, and perform them very in the short term. But god forbid I remember them, especially in a school based education environment where they teach you through things in a cycle and expect you to remember it all in 9 months time. :daze:

KillerBean2
02-04-2012, 12:43 PM
Screw calculus. All you need to know, when you are new to Assembly programming, is boolean algebra. It's simple. It's just ones and zeros.

You can freshen up on the calculus, when you need it for solving specific problems in your code. Otherwise it's not necessary.

Melf
02-05-2012, 12:00 AM
Did you guys really derail this thread to talk about math? MATH?

Goddamn... :p

SEGA.GENESIS1989
02-05-2012, 12:30 AM
Hehehe! So Melf what branch of mathematics did you enjoy in school? :p (Sorry, I just had to ask!)

Oerg866
02-05-2012, 07:28 PM
Coming back to say that I hereby retract my statements on pages ~14,especially the one about stealing the license. Development continues under GPL :)

djshok
02-10-2012, 05:13 PM
So what's going on with this nowdays? Is it still being worked on?

retrospiel
02-10-2012, 05:38 PM
Coming back to say that I hereby retract my statements on pages ~14,especially the one about stealing the license. Development continues under GPL :)

Yeah, GPL shouldn't be an issue if you're planning a commercial release. All that needs to be available is the source code, nothing else. Other parts of the game do not need to be GPL'd, they can remain under any license. And in case of the music: any license you choose seeing as the music is your work, not Sik's (he cannot license any part of your work, as that's copyrighted by you, not him). Then we got the packaging, cover artwork, manual, etc. All that does not need to be GPL'd either so a commercial release of Project MD still could not be replicated by anyone else, at least not without significant changes.

Having said all that I really hope Sik gets his act back together and finishes what he started. This was (and still is) such a promising project and a game I was really looking forward to see released commercially.


@Sik (if you're reading):

Check this out:

GnxdgzQB_ps

bBz4AX1tmsM

Link: http://www.retrousb.com/index.php?cPath=30

- as you can see people still buy NES games, even if they're not as good as Super Mario Bros. 3 (or 1 for that matter)

SEGA.GENESIS1989
02-11-2012, 12:17 AM
sik is most likely reading this thread. He recently posedt a video on Youtube featuring some additional changes he made to the game. Unfortunately, you could not comment on the video. Whether he decides to release the game or not, it can be said that even though the game remains unfinished, it looks really nice.

Oerg866
02-14-2012, 09:13 PM
So what's going on with this nowdays? Is it still being worked on?

Game is under normal development as usual, from both of us. Sik seems back to normal, but refuses to come back to IRC or Sega-16 =/

Anyway, it's still open source, so, any contributions are welcome =P

THAT SAID,

Have a look at the official project MD website: http://projectmd.mdscene.net

My current occupation is working on the sound engine some more, and getting multiplatform tools ready, I plan to reduce average echo stream size by at least 50% by april.

Cheers,
Oerg866

Barone
02-15-2012, 07:56 AM
Sik seems back to normal
Great news!
I miss him...:(
I hope the things can get better and better in his life.

Thanks for the info.

streetsofrage
02-15-2012, 10:12 AM
hope this game gets finished and put on a cart , I would gladly throw my money at it


music is great , stages are very nice and colorful

SEGA.GENESIS1989
02-16-2012, 02:53 AM
Game is under normal development as usual, from both of us. Sik seems back to normal, but refuses to come back to IRC or Sega-16 =/

Anyway, it's still open source, so, any contributions are welcome =P

THAT SAID,

Have a look at the official project MD website: http://projectmd.mdscene.net

My current occupation is working on the sound engine some more, and getting multiplatform tools ready, I plan to reduce average echo stream size by at least 50% by april.

Cheers,
Oerg866

Oerg866, do send our best wishes to him! He is a very talented individual and he should definitely put his skills to good use!

SEGA.GENESIS1989
02-19-2012, 01:47 AM
I'm not certain how many of you are subscribed on Youtube but Sik has posted another video featuring improvements on the game. The video can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb3brS0fCKg&feature=channel_video_title

I am really enjoying how it is evolving and improving! It really is shaping up to be a really nice platformer!

Phosis
02-19-2012, 02:02 AM
It looks neat, it would be really cool if there were some vertical scrolling levels as well. The screen being locked as it is makes the game seem a little flat. Still looks like a hell of a lot of fun, very good job!