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NeoVamp
02-02-2012, 11:29 AM
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/436/psxvssaturn.jpg


Okay we've all seen the many discussions of PSX Vs Saturn, but the only poll here doesn't really work
because it also has the Genesis as a choice. (Genesis as a choice on a Genesis site, derp)

So lets keep it simple, PSX Vs Saturn, what do you prefer?

StarMist
02-02-2012, 11:39 AM
Both in the past and the future where all but one of my machines have mysteriously vanished it's the Playstation. However over the last two or two and a half years my playtime's been lopped on the Saturn side.
I'd post a Nights picture to seal it but you all know what he looks like.

Kamahl
02-02-2012, 11:51 AM
Though the PS has the better library, the Saturn just has more (or better versions of) games I still like to play.

Crackdown
02-02-2012, 12:13 PM
Saturn - not even close for me

sheath
02-02-2012, 12:31 PM
What Kamahl said. The Saturn simply has more games, or better versions of games, I like to play. It's not necessarily a genre thing, it's a game-by-game preference thing. Plus, the controller, oh my *blush*.

tz101
02-02-2012, 12:59 PM
(Genesis as a choice on a Genesis site, derp)

Y, but is Saturn vs PSX on a Sega site really going to garner any more fair results?

NeoVamp
02-02-2012, 01:01 PM
Y, but is Saturn vs PSX on a Sega site really going to garner any more fair results?

Going by the debates in the other threads..

Yes.

FoxHound
02-02-2012, 01:06 PM
If i could relive the mid 90s i would get a Saturn before a Playstation. I missed alot of the Saturn days playing my playstation. I vote Saturn

Black_Tiger
02-02-2012, 02:09 PM
Y, but is Saturn vs PSX on a Sega site really going to garner any more fair results?

No one seems to hate on the Saturn more than Genesis fans who see it as one of the misteps that took Sega out of the hardware business. Most PSX and N64 fans don't seem to care or know enough about the Saturn to trash it.

Chilly Willy
02-02-2012, 02:25 PM
I like the Saturn more now than I did when it was out, but it still doesn't come close to matching the PSX.

tz101
02-02-2012, 02:31 PM
I like the Saturn more now than I did when it was out, but it still doesn't come close to matching the PSX.

This man knows what he's talkin' bout.

eddiespruce
02-02-2012, 02:36 PM
The Saturn, or course. It had the best 2D ports, the best controller known to man, and just screamed "Fun". Regardless of the playstation library being larger, the Saturn has a larger portion of "Quality games" that I really enjoy.

Mr Smith
02-02-2012, 02:43 PM
The Saturn is a worthless black box with overrated games and an overexcited group of hardcore followers. It was an utter flop as a console and its Sonic games sucked - anybody who says they liked Sonic Jam deserves to be banned from Sega-16 instantly. If the Saturn were a person it would be unemployed and have lost its virginity to its cousin. I get more pleasure out of going to the dentist than playing a Saturn. Face the facts: the Playstation won this archaic question. Close this thread.

eddiespruce
02-02-2012, 02:45 PM
The Saturn is a worthless black box with overrated games and an overexcited group of hardcore followers. It was an utter flop as a console and its Sonic games sucked - anybody who says they liked Sonic Jam deserves to be banned from Sega-16 instantly. If the Saturn were a person it would be unemployed and have lost its virginity to its cousin. I get more pleasure out of going to the dentist than playing a Saturn. Face the facts: the Playstation won this archaic question. Close this thread.

:ban:

Kamahl
02-02-2012, 03:03 PM
:ban:
Actually having the opposite opinion to Mr. Smith is what should cause a ban TBH. A true Sega fan should be disappointed with the Saturn.
Still, I don't care about Sega, only games like Radiant Silvergun, Guardian Heroes, Thunderforce 5 and Panzer Dragoon Zwei. So Saturn ftw.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 03:10 PM
I liked Sonic Jam...

DarkDragon
02-02-2012, 03:15 PM
I had so much fun with Playstation thats its hard to imagine I would have gotten just as much or more enjoyment from the Saturn. I'm fully satisfied will all the time I spent with PS and dont regret not getting a Saturn instead one bit. Would I liked to have had a Saturn AND a PSX ? Sure of course but no way would I have rather had just a Saturn. Heck Id even choose an N64 over a Saturn.

GreyFox
02-02-2012, 03:44 PM
I bought a Saturn back in the day and never once regretted it. I was in my first year at uni at the time and my flatmates later got a PSX and N64 and I was working in a videogame shop at the time so had access to just about all the PAL games that came out (and luckily with regards to the Saturn particularly in the latter days also import titles)

Obviously the PSX is a fantastic machine with a a wide and deep library of games and to dismiss it is a fools games. Too many good titles.

Likewise the N64 - a different type of library but the sheer amount of time Mario 64, PilotWings, GoldenEye and particularly Intrnational SuperStar Soccer 64 took up in our flat more than justified the machine.

However I can honestly say that I never once looked to the PSX library or N64 with envious eyes. This was because the Saturn provided me with more of the type of games that wanted to play. I could see that it was going to come third to the other two machines (partly due to the sheer wealth of games PSX was getting, the praise in the mainstream press it was getting (never underestimate how much good coverage a swanky part with artists signed to Sony performing will sway a journalist on the fence!) and more importantly the frequent and numerous demo disks. The N64 was a more peculiar beast but all my years in gaming have taught me to never write off Nintendo. However wrong a mis-step they seem to be making they get a lot more right than they get wrong and always seem to make a profit (at this point someone usually points out the Virtual Boy with a chortle)

However none of this changed the amount of enjoyment I got (and still get!) from my Saturn. From shaving milliseconds off lap times on Sega Rally, to multiplayer Bomberman, drifting past the Sonic Wall sidewards in Daytona (I know people thought it scked as a conversion but the conversion absolutely nailed the gameplay spot on) to being astounded at the quality of the Virtua Fighter 2 conversion to the awesome Capcom fighter conversions. Layer Section/Galactic Attack, Parodius, flying dreamily throught the digital fairytale that is NiGHTS to taking down the enemy airfleet with a perfectly executed lock-on in Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon Zwei hooked up to the stereo to awesome effect. The beautiful pad. The 5 parallels of Dark Saviour, whacking in the ROM cart for King of Fighters 95, or creeping through the eerie silent corridors of Enemy Zero with only the motion tracker beep as company. Playing Death Tanks Zwei with my housemates for round after round. Corbomite and the hidden 7th tank! So many magic moments!

Sure the other systems had some amazing titles but the Saturn in many ways summed up Sega to me. The plucky under-dog full of personality. If the PSX was like a Golden Retriever (everywhere, pretty much universally liked and even endorsing toilet tissue) and the N64 was more like a pure breed Great Dane (amazing when you see one, impressive in lots of ways but ultimately slightly less robust than you'd think, don't see them so often and a little inconvenient in terms of being anything other than a Great Dane) the Saturn felt to me like the Mongrel (not entirely sure of its parentage or how many different breeds were mixed in, a little bit of border collie, a little bit of spaniel, wait maybe a little bit of boxer or labrador but full of personality and just desperate to be loved)

Well the analogy might be a bit tortured but in some ways it felt with Saturn (and also Dreamcast) that the more limited library meant there was a little bit more of a community. Each game got a chance to breath on its own. i.e. the game wasn't competing wth another 20 titles that came out the same day (The N64 also had this with maybe weeks or months between each of its big hitters, while the PSX just seemed to flood the market with titles every week all vying with each other which while it meant there were some brilliant hidden gems also meant a lot got missed). This led to a brilliant shared cultural experience. Everyone with a Saturn would have played most the games mentioned above (as well as some of the more obscure games before branching into the wonderful world of import titles)

History has been a little unkind to the Saturn in that many people dismiss it as obvious from day 1 that the Saturn was awful and the PlayStation was amazing but it was actually pretty close for the first few years and an exciting time to be a gamer. History also gets re-written frequently and it seems common to say that the games that sold the PSX were Tomb Raider, WipeOut, Ridge Racer, Tekken, Resident Evil but in my experience (in the UK at least) it was as much titles like Formula 1 and Loaded that did as much or more to sell the machine. PSX had nothing to touch Sega Rally until Colin McCrae came out for example. The pleasing thing is that a lo of decent Saturn games are getting ported to the download services so at least people can get to experience some of the great games from this generation. It never ceases to amaze me how many so called gamers have never played on a Saturn (in a similar way to having never played on a Dreamcast or XBOX or whatever if they had a PS1 or PS2) As a gamer I try to experience every system as every system has some brilliant games and the Saturn is no exception - providing some of the very best games of that generation.

Anyway - could rabbit on for ages on this.

But if you are still reading by now then I'll add my vote to Saturn :-)

Criss
02-02-2012, 03:44 PM
Playstation. Had a more diverse library of times (obviously outliving the Saturn but still), had a huge marketing push by Sony (quite obviously), was easier to make games for, and Memory Cards. Yes. Memory Cards.

Plus I mean....come on. The PS intro on boot was awesome as hell.

Granted the Saturn was awesome to see when it came out, but I saw nothing that proved Saturn was better than PS.

Kamahl
02-02-2012, 03:47 PM
I liked Sonic Jam...
:wtf:
:ban:

StarMist
02-02-2012, 03:49 PM
Actually having the opposite opinion to Mr. Smith is what should cause a ban TBH. A true Sega fan should be disappointed with the Saturn.
Still, I don't care about Sega, only games like Radiant Silvergun, Guardian Heroes, Thunderforce 5 and Panzer Dragoon Zwei. So Saturn ftw.
This seems to be the avg Sega-16er ratio: 2 Treasure and 1 Technosoft to every Sega game. Boo.
And what our future President is expressing is his distaste for a machine w/o Sonic, Kid Chameleon, Phantasy Star, or Ecco. On the other hand how he justifies his PS2 enthusiasm is lost on me but it is well known that the workings of great men's minds are lost upon commoners.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 03:50 PM
But the Saturn did have Sonic and Phantasy Star...

eddiespruce
02-02-2012, 03:51 PM
:O
:ban:

You need to stop supporting Mr Smith, as he clearly has bad taste in video games. He rarely ever comes to these forums, and when he does, he just refers to everything as "Tosh" and "Gash". He is clearly a Dictator.

I had a dream last night, and Raul Julia was there. He said to me, "The Saturn was a great console with many great games, and despite the fact that it didn't sell well in North America, only a fool would dismiss its awesomeness."

So if Raul Julia says the Saturn is cool, then it must be.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 03:52 PM
inb4heresyclaims

StarMist
02-02-2012, 03:57 PM
But the Saturn did have Sonic and Phantasy Star...Well then the PS2 clearly carries the day as its Mega Collection is better than Jam and its Phantasy Stars 1 and 2 actually add new material.
Though for what it matters there is a smatch of PhS in PDS.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 04:00 PM
Mega Collection is buggy Emulation. Jam uses ports that enhance the games. Therefore Jam is better than Mega Collection. Not to mention Jam has Sonic World and the best version of 3D Blast is on the Saturn.

Also Phantasy Star Collection has all that art and what not that Generation 1 and 2 don't have. Then again, the PS Mega Collection on PS2 has that as well, along with both English and JP roms. Though the Saturn collection does allow you to modify movement speed.

tz101
02-02-2012, 04:10 PM
The systems:

Saturn - pixelated
PSX - triangulated polygons and see-through surfaces
N64 - blurred

Pick your poison. They all had their share of good titles, but if you are asking a person to choose only one, Saturn or PSX, then certainly sheer number of games has to come into the equation at some point. Now, I realize some of this is based on sentimental reasoning (which system you got for Christmas as a kid), but I was grown by the time these wars were waged, and after the fact, PSX just is logically the better choice.

StarMist
02-02-2012, 04:12 PM
Mega Collection is buggy Emulation. Jam uses ports that enhance the games. Therefore Jam is better than Mega Collection. Not to mention Jam has Sonic World and the best less awful version of 3D Blast is on the Saturn.Really doesn't matter how buggy the emulation when they've already been played to death on Genesis or aren't available in the other pack (Game Gear &c). I don't need Jam's enhancements or enjoy Sonic World which might as well be Wally World.
In the end I hope this is all mild killtime twitting on your part as neither Flickies' Island, Sonic R, nor a couple compilations equates to a new 2D Sonic or any form of Phantasy Star. Although to be honest I'd gladly let Nights stand in for Sonic if there'd been KC, SoR, or PhS. Ecco as 2D takes the back seat to them and it wouldn't have been anything short of disastrous on the Saturn considering that the otherwise superb DC game barely, barely has enough draw distance.
On the plus side at least the Saturn didn't get a Ristar.

eddiespruce
02-02-2012, 04:14 PM
PSX just is logically the better choice.

No offense, but what do mean by "Logically?" Are you saying that people that prefer the Saturn are dumb? Because that's certainly NOT true. People that prefer the niche are the wisest of us all.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 04:19 PM
Having in the Spin Dash in Sonic 1 is a huge plus if you ask me. It makes the game actually enjoyable to play. Sonic World is a nice demo for Sonic Adventure and the history and art in it is nice to look through. And Saturn 3D Blast is actually an enjoyable game to play. The better Music, 3D Special Stages, and nicer controls make the game significantly better.

Phantasy Star Collection is a nice compilation of the first 4 games, and it too adds enhancements such as faster walking speed for the earlier titles. But you can't really blame Sega for not giving us Phantasy Star 5. At the end of 4 all the loose ends have been tied up. There's nothing to build on. Blame the finality of Phantasy Star 4's ending for the lack of a Phantasy Star 5.

And there was a SoR4 in the works for the Saturn.

tz101
02-02-2012, 04:24 PM
Are you saying that people that prefer the Saturn are dumb?

No insults were intended. Sorry if anyone took it that way.

Black_Tiger
02-02-2012, 04:26 PM
No offense, but what do mean by "Logically?" Are you saying that people that prefer the Saturn are dumb? Because that's certainly NOT true. People that prefer the niche are the wisest of us all.

There are a lot of people who casually play games for misc consoles who just go along with the idea that games are supposed to fall within a set of specific genres. They will arbitrarily judge libraries using simple arithmatic by checking off the number of titles within predetermined categories. Anything original or subjective cancels itself out and quantity is the overall deciding factor after genre quotas are fufilled by rival consoles. Personal preference = bad taste/ignorance. Popular opinion = enlightenment/insightfulness.

eddiespruce
02-02-2012, 04:27 PM
No insults were intended. Sorry if anyone took it that way.

No problem.

Baloo
02-02-2012, 04:41 PM
For me, the Saturn just has the best games of the genre compared to the PSX.

-For every Final Fantasy game on the PSX, there's Panzer Dragoon Saga.
-For ever Ridge Racer/Twisted Metal game, there's Daytona USA and Sega Rally.
-For every Tekken game, there's Virtua Fighter 2.
-For every 2D Fighter, there's a better port on the Saturn :P
-For Every Baseball game, there's World Series Baseball II.
-For Every Soccer game, there's World Championship Soccer '98

And so on and so forth. NiGHTS and Burning Rangers top off the system's best exclusives.

Such an underrated system, even today! I love the US library.

Kamahl
02-02-2012, 04:48 PM
You need to stop supporting Mr Smith, as he clearly has bad taste in video games.
But I think Sonic Jam is a spit in the face too.

Gogogadget
02-02-2012, 04:57 PM
Can someone tell me what the issue with Sonic Jam is? I recently picked it up cheaply and haven't had much a chance to try it yet, is it bad because it's the first 3 titles and it's an 'insult' to people wanting Sonic Xtreme? Or is it bad for another reason?

NeoZeedeater
02-02-2012, 05:01 PM
-For ever Ridge Racer/Twisted Metal game, there's Daytona USA and Sega Rally.
Twisted Metal may be about driving vehicles but it really doesn't belong in the same category as those linear arcade racers. Twisted Metal 2 was a lot of fun two-player versus.

I agree that Saturn does have the best in some genres but I think the same can be said for the Playstation as well. I love Castlevania SotN, Tenchu, Elemental Gearbolt, Adventures of Little Ralph, Suzuki Bakuhatsu, Mr. Domino, etc.. These are games that either don't have SS equivalents or are better on PS1.

As for what's the better system overall, that's a tough choice. In the 32-bit era, I owned both and had a bit of a preference for the PS1 but in terms of what I want to play today, the SS is looking just as appealing. I'll have to analyze this one for a while. They're both pretty awesome.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 05:01 PM
There's nothing wrong with Sonic Jam, some fans just wanted more is all. The ports are all well done, and have enhancements that are not possible in any of other emulation based compilations.

Kamahl
02-02-2012, 05:04 PM
bad because it's the first 3 titles and it's an 'insult' to people wanting Sonic Xtreme
^^^
Not Sonic Xtreme specifically, ANY proper Sonic game for the Saturn.

Chilly Willy
02-02-2012, 05:18 PM
For me, the Saturn just has the best games of the genre compared to the PSX.

-For every Final Fantasy game on the PSX, there's Panzer Dragoon Saga.
-For ever Ridge Racer/Twisted Metal game, there's Daytona USA and Sega Rally.
-For every Tekken game, there's Virtua Fighter 2.
-For every 2D Fighter, there's a better port on the Saturn :P
-For Every Baseball game, there's World Series Baseball II.
-For Every Soccer game, there's World Championship Soccer '98

And so on and so forth. NiGHTS and Burning Rangers top off the system's best exclusives.

Such an underrated system, even today! I love the US library.

Your counting skills are lacking...

For every Panzer title, there's a couple dozen Final Fantasy games.
For every Datona and Sega Rally, there's a couple dozen Ridge Racer and Twisted Metal games.
For every Virtua Fighter title, there's a couple dozen Tekken games.
For every World Series Baseball, there's several dozen baseball games.
For every World Championship Soccer '98, there's several dozen soccer games.

The biggest advantage the PSX has over the Saturn is the range and number of titles released. The Saturn never came close, and it was made even worse that SOA never ported most of the Japanese titles, going so far as to scoff at the idea that US customers wanted RPGs.

NeoVamp
02-02-2012, 05:21 PM
Hello Sega Saturn fan, name some good racing games on your console!

Why certainly, there's Daytona and Sega Rally and Need for Speed, amazing games on an amazing console!



Hello Playstation owner, name some good racing games for your chosen console!

Why certainly, here are some that I enjoyed playing.

Ridge Racer
Ridge Racer 2
Ridge Racer 3
Ridge Racer 4
Porsche Challenge
Test Drive 4
Test Drive 5
Test Drive 6
Driver
Gran Turismo
Gran Turismo 2
The Need for Speed
Need for Speed 2
NFS III
Need for Speed: High Stakes
Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed

And that's just the stuff I remember playing, the Saturn isn't a bad console at all, it just doesn't have enough choice,
so saying "Daytona and Panzer Dragoon and Shining Force 3" over and over again is just showing how limited the choice of games is on the Saturn.

Like I said before, I'm not hating.. but saying the Saturn is better then the PS1 is just silly.. just because it has like 5 amazing games
and a bunch of properly ported Capcom fighters does not make it superior to the juggernaut of choices that is PSX.

DarkDragon
02-02-2012, 05:21 PM
Your counting skills are lacking...

For every Panzer title, there's a couple dozen Final Fantasy games.
For every Datona and Sega Rally, there's a couple dozen Ridge Racer and Twisted Metal games.
For every Virtua Fighter title, there's a couple dozen Tekken games.
For every World Series Baseball, there's several dozen baseball games.
For every World Championship Soccer '98, there's several dozen soccer games.

The biggest advantage the PSX has over the Saturn is the range and number of titles released. The Saturn never came close, and it was made even worse that SOA never ported most of the Japanese titles, going so far as to scoff at the idea that US customers wanted RPGs.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1291131680_two-thumbs-up.jpg

Kamahl
02-02-2012, 05:25 PM
A lot of choice does not mean a lot of good choices though.
I'd take Panzer Dragoon Saga over any Final Fantasy on the PS1 easily.

tz101
02-02-2012, 05:27 PM
Hello Sega Saturn fan, name some good racing games on your console!

Why certainly, there's Daytona and Sega Rally and Need for Speed, amazing games on an amazing console!



Hello Playstation owner, name some good racing games for your chosen console!

Why certainly, here are some that I enjoyed playing.

Ridge Racer
Ridge Racer 2
Ridge Racer 3
Ridge Racer 4
Porsche Challenge
Test Drive 4
Test Drive 5
Test Drive 6
Driver
Gran Turismo
Gran Turismo 2
The Need for Speed
Need for Speed 2
NFS III
Need for Speed: High Stakes
Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed

And that's just the stuff I remember playing, the Saturn isn't a bad console at all, it just doesn't have enough choice,
so saying "Daytona and Panzer Dragoon and Shining Force 3" over and over again is just showing how limited the choice of games is on the Saturn.

Like I said before, I'm not hating.. but saying the Saturn is better then the PS1 is just silly.. just because it has like 5 amazing games
and a bunch of properly ported Capcom fighters does not make it superior to the juggernaut of choices that is PSX.

...enough said...

16-bit
02-02-2012, 05:28 PM
Another one of these, really?

The Saturn has a lot of really cool games, does it have a good original sonic game? Well no. But who cares? Nights was a lot of fun, Astal was really cool, and there was a lot of really nice arcade ports.

Does it have as many good games as the PSX does, well no, but it's not a terrible system. I've got about 30 games for the Saturn, I like playing them a lot. The system was marketed terribly out here, there was no way that it would have done as well as the PSX, but from what I hear if the good games for it were more available and there wasn't stupid decisions like "Saturn Day", had more games brought over from Japan, things would have turned out a lot differently.

With all this said, the Playstation has a lot of great games that even with the Saturn's Japanese library can't overtake. So my vote does go for the Playstation.


A lot of choice does not mean a lot of good choices though.
I'd take Panzer Dragoon Saga over any Final Fantasy on the PS1 easily.

I agree with this, however there were plenty of other great RPGs on the PSX that weren't Final Fantasy, Xenogears, Grandia (yeah I know this was on the Japanese Saturn first), and Suikoden for example.

Chilly Willy
02-02-2012, 05:29 PM
A lot of choice does not mean a lot of good choices though.
I'd take Panzer Dragoon Saga over any Final Fantasy on the PS1 easily.

Yes, they're not all better, but a lot of that is subject to personal opinion. That is why having more choices is better - because not everybody likes the same thing. Personally, I don't care for Panzer Dragoon, so all the ranting about how great it is merits a shrug from me. I love Twisted Metal, but that garners a shrug from many others. What good is it to have the greatest console in the universe if it has three games, none of which you like?

DarkDragon
02-02-2012, 05:30 PM
I'd take Panzer Dragoon Saga over any Final Fantasy on the PS1 easily.

I dont have a problem with that opinion as long as you admit you are in the minority. Me personally, FF VII was THE reason why I got a PSX and yeah we can look back and nitpick its faults apart but to a 13 year old boy back in the late 90's it was THE BEST. If you were a teen/young adult back when the FF PSX games came out I suspect you'd think differently. You didnt grow up with any of those games so you have the benefit of hindsight.

jerry coeurl
02-02-2012, 05:33 PM
They're both awesome, it's hard to choose. I like them for different reasons. Saturn has Sega's games, obviously, and (if you're willing to drop $25 on a PAR) a large library of great shooters and fighters, not to mention my favorite controller of all time. PSX has a lot of RPG and RPG-hybrid games, and I would argue that it's pretty much the system to own for fans of the genre. That's when Squaresoft was, imo, at its creative peak.

On the Saturn there's NiGHTS + Christmas NiGHTS, Burning Rangers, Panzer Dragoon (all of them, especially Saga), Guardian Heroes, Sega Rally Championship, Shinobi Legions (I don't care what anyone says, this game is awesome), Sonic Jam (the extras do it for me, as well as the ability to save your progress in Sonic 1 or 2, and the time trials), Daytona USA and Fighters Megamix. There are others still that I own but haven't played yet, such as Shining the Holy Ark, which I've heard great things about. And there are a bunch of weird/cool honorable mentions like Mr. Bones and Sonic R, and then a bunch of stuff I don't have but I want.

On the PSX for me there's Vagrant Story (the best game on the system), Wild ARMs, Suikoden & Suikoden II, Final Fantasy Tactics, Ogre Battle (SNES port, but it features the ability to save in battle and when battles can take up to 3 hours to complete, the importance of this cannot be understated), Tactics Ogre, Xenogears, SaGa Frontier (unfinished but infinitely replayable mess of a game that it is), Legend of Mana, PaRappa the Rapper, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and Final Fantasy VII (not my favorite in the series, but in my top 5 at least). There are tons of others that I can't remember, or haven't played yet. And of course, PSX has games for every other genre under the sun as well, those are just the ones I love it for.

So I wouldn't want to settle for only having a Saturn or a PSX, and in 2012 there's no reason I should have to.

NeoZeedeater
02-02-2012, 05:41 PM
I dont have a problem with that opinion as long as you admit you are in the minority. Me personally, FF VII was THE reason why I got a PSX and yeah we can look back and nitpick its faults apart but to a 13 year old boy back in the late 90's it was THE BEST. If you were a teen/young adult back when the FF PSX games came out I suspect you'd think differently. You didnt grow up with any of those games so you have the benefit of hindsight.
He's only in the minority because way more people have played FF games. It was obviously on a way more popular system with a much larger advertising budget and in an established franchise. Among the small group that played both back in the day, PDS ranks high.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 05:56 PM
Hello Sega Saturn fan, name some good racing games on your console!

Why certainly, there's Daytona and Sega Rally and Need for Speed, amazing games on an amazing console!



Hello Playstation owner, name some good racing games for your chosen console!

Why certainly, here are some that I enjoyed playing.

Ridge Racer
Ridge Racer 2
Ridge Racer 3
Ridge Racer 4
Porsche Challenge
Test Drive 4
Test Drive 5
Test Drive 6
Driver
Gran Turismo
Gran Turismo 2
The Need for Speed
Need for Speed 2
NFS III
Need for Speed: High Stakes
Need for Speed: Porsche Unleashed
.

Add these racers to your Saturn list:
High Velocity
Touge King The Spirits 2
Sega Touring Car Championship
Daytona USA CCE/Circuit Edition (If you can list RR and GT and all their sequels, we can add these too)
Wangan Dead Heat
Initial D
Drift King 97 (I may have the name for this one wrong)
Virtua Racing
Gran Chaser
Scorcher (I'm pretty sure this ones a racer)
Hi-Octane
GT24
Manx TT Super Bike
Hang On GP 95
Nascar 98

And we could also throw in Wipeout, Wipeout XL, and Destruction Derby if we wanted. Also don't forget Outrun and Power Drift. There's probably a few others I've forgotten as well. I know there's some more sports related racing games as well as a couple import titles I've forgotten. The reason people constantly mention Daytona and Sega Rally is because those are typically the most popular and well known racers. It's not because those are the only ones on the system.

Kamahl
02-02-2012, 05:56 PM
I agree with this, however there were plenty of other great RPGs on the PSX that weren't Final Fantasy, Xenogears, Grandia (yeah I know this was on the Japanese Saturn first), and Suikoden for example.
I know I know, Xenogears and Suikoden are awesome for sure. I was just making a point :p (I'd still take Panzer Dragoon Saga over any of them, but probably not ALL of them)
Being a shooter fan the Saturn will always be a system of choice for me, the best there is for the PS just doesn't appeal to me, with the exception of Einhander. And even then I find it overrated compared to Radiant Silvergun.
EDIT: Oh and R-Type Delta, R-Type Delta is pretty awesome too.

Olls
02-02-2012, 05:56 PM
The PS1, because it has many more games worth playing.
The biggest mistake Sega made with the Saturn is not giving us Sonic 4, SoR 4, Golden Axe 4, Phantasy Star V, etc. Instead, we got all these lame new IPs nobody cared about. I guess people needed more time to let those games sink in.
If the Saturn is that good at 2d, why not give us a 2d Sonic, instead of the abomination I won't even mention. Seems like Sega had no idea what they were going for.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 06:00 PM
I know I know, Xenogears and Suikoden are awesome for sure. I was just making a point :p (I'd still take Panzer Dragoon Saga over any of them, but probably not ALL of them)
Being a shooter fan the Saturn will always be a system of choice for me, the best there is for the PS just doesn't appeal to me, with the exception of Einhander. And even then I find it overrated compared to Radiant Silvergun.

Suikoden is on the Saturn...

tz101
02-02-2012, 06:01 PM
Not saying it is trash by any means, but I could like Saturn more if the graphics were not so grainy. It hurts my eyes sometimes playing Saturn games.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 06:02 PM
PS1 games aren't gorgeous beauties either.

DarkDragon
02-02-2012, 06:06 PM
PS1 games aren't gorgeous beauties either.

Depends on the game. Einhander definately is.

Olls
02-02-2012, 06:06 PM
Add these racers to your Saturn list:
High Velocity
Touge King The Spirits 2
Sega Touring Car Championship
Daytona USA CCE/Circuit Edition (If you can list RR and GT and all their sequels, we can add these too)
Wangan Dead Heat
Initial D
Drift King 97 (I may have the name for this one wrong)
Virtua Racing
Gran Chaser
Scorcher (I'm pretty sure this ones a racer)
Hi-Octane
GT24
Manx TT Super Bike
Hang On GP 95
Nascar 98

And we could also throw in Wipeout, Wipeout XL, and Destruction Derby if we wanted. Also don't forget Outrun and Power Drift. There's probably a few others I've forgotten as well. I know there's some more sports related racing games as well as a couple import titles I've forgotten. The reason people constantly mention Daytona and Sega Rally is because those are typically the most popular and well known racers. It's not because those are the only ones on the system.

Sadly none of those are better than the Gran Turismo series. Not in graphics, sound, gameplay, replayability, content, or anything. Unless of course you have no patience at all and therefore cannot stand simulation racers.

16-bit
02-02-2012, 06:06 PM
Suikoden is on the Saturn...

Not in English. Which was a terrible problem, there could have been a lot of really nice RPGs out here in North America on the Saturn, Grandia, Suikoden, Far East of Eden the Fourth Apocalypse, but marketing and the fact that Working Designs sort of sucked at picking projects to bring over here on the Saturn. RPGs weren't all that popular in the console market back then, but if the Saturn had some really good English releases of those games things could have turned out at least a little bit better. It's a sadness I tell ya, such a sadness.

Kamahl
02-02-2012, 06:08 PM
Suikoden is on the Saturn...
Number 2 isn't AFAIK.

Baloo
02-02-2012, 06:11 PM
A lot of choice does not mean a lot of good choices though.
I'd take Panzer Dragoon Saga over any Final Fantasy on the PS1 easily.

This was my point, and the whole reason why I enjoy the Saturn more than the Playstation. The PSX may have quantity, but the Saturn has QUALITY!

jerry coeurl
02-02-2012, 06:13 PM
Suikoden is on the Saturn...

In Japan...

I don't speak/read Japanese, so the fact that Grandia and Suikoden are also on Saturn doesn't really make any difference to me. I refuse to play an RPG with a translation guide (ruins the immersion for me), and since both of those titles are available in America in English on the PSX, I don't know why anyone would bother with the Japanese versions. Unless they actually can read Japanese.

I would like to pick up a copy of Genso Suikoden on the Saturn just to have it in my collection because I'm a huuuuuge Suikoden fan, and I probably could make it through without too much trouble since I've finished the game multiple times on the PSX, but to me it's kind of a silly argument to make in the Saturn's favor.


Number 2 isn't AFAIK.

Yup, Suikoden II is only available on the PSX, and since it's arguably better than the first game (depending on who you argue with... I still champion the first game), and since having a "perfect" save file unlocks some awesome bonus content in SII, there's yet another reason to play it over the Saturn version.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 06:13 PM
Depends on the game. Einhander definately is.

And Radiant Silvergun looks leagues better.

And honestly I find Gran Turismo overrated.

As for owning certain Japanese RPGs on Saturn, the reason is obvious. Certain ones like Grandia are significantly better on the Saturn.

eddiespruce
02-02-2012, 06:19 PM
This was my point, and the whole reason why I enjoy the Saturn more than the Playstation. The PSX may have quantity, but the Saturn has QUALITY!


You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Baloo again.

jerry coeurl
02-02-2012, 06:20 PM
As for owning certain Japanese RPGs on Saturn, the reason is obvious. Certain ones like Grandia are significantly better on the Saturn.

Suikoden isn't significantly better.

I don't really care if Grandia is technically a better game on the Saturn or not; the PSX version is playable in a language I can understand, and in a genre where storytelling is such an important aspect of game design, that is a much more important factor. Slogging through pages of Japanese dialogue with a translation FAQ at my side is not my idea of a good time.

The Jackal
02-02-2012, 06:22 PM
The Saturn is a worthless black box with overrated games and an overexcited group of hardcore followers. It was an utter flop as a console and its Sonic games sucked - anybody who says they liked Sonic Jam deserves to be banned from Sega-16 instantly. If the Saturn were a person it would be unemployed and have lost its virginity to its cousin. I get more pleasure out of going to the dentist than playing a Saturn. Face the facts: the Playstation won this archaic question. Close this thread.Wait, what? Sonic Jam was awesome! As for Sat vs PS1, they don't compare. PS1 shits on the Saturn IMO; and please don't bring up the pad, there is such a thing as adapters and 3rd party pads. EDIT: Let me add to that. I love the Saturn, fantastic games, great control pad, brillant console all-round. But compared to the PS1? No. Too many brillant games that overshadow the ones on the Saturn, so, so easily.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 06:49 PM
Suikoden isn't significantly better.

I don't really care if Grandia is technically a better game on the Saturn or not; the PSX version is playable in a language I can understand, and in a genre where storytelling is such an important aspect of game design, that is a much more important factor. Slogging through pages of Japanese dialogue with a translation FAQ at my side is not my idea of a good time.

It still doesn't negate the fact that those games are not PS1 exclusives, and some are better on the Saturn. And in this day and age you can always play both versions. I played Grandia on the PS1 first, then I got the Saturn version and enjoyed it a lot more for the following reasons:

1) The frame rate is much more stable
2) The sound quality is better
3) The spell effects are nicer
4) The backgrounds are nicer looking
5) The scenery looks better
6) The Japanese voices are better
7) The game doesn't randomly crash like the PS1 version does. I can't even count the number of times Grandia crashed for me on my PS2. Every time I played it it was pretty much a race to the save point before it crashed.

If you know the story, there's no reason to own the PS1 version of the Saturn version. The Saturn version is just better.

StarMist
02-02-2012, 06:58 PM
Add these racers to your Saturn list:
High Velocity = good
Touge King The Spirits 2 = decent
Sega Touring Car Championship = decent
Daytona USA CCE/Circuit Edition (If you can list RR and GT and all their sequels, we can add these too) = no thanks
Wangan Dead Heat = decent
Initial D = fucking broken and also on PS, a half anime game that incredibly got a sequel on PS2. For this sort of mix prefer Code R which is SS exclusive.
Drift King 97 (I may have the name for this one wrong) = not sure
Virtua Racing = no thanks
Gran Chaser = very thin Wipeout knockoff
Scorcher (I'm pretty sure this ones a racer) = yes it's a racer and unique; very solid, smooth polygons despite short draw. Good game.
Hi-Octane = good
GT24 = don't know
Manx TT Super Bike = no bikes please
Hang On GP 95 = no bikes please
Nascar 98 = no Nascar ever

My opinion of Ridge Racer and GT couldn't be lower so anything labeled 'good' is in the Saturn's favour. Not that the PS hasn't other racers besides, but naming RR and GT means anything on the Saturn is fair game to be named in opposition.



I would like to pick up a copy of Genso Suikoden on the Saturn just to have it in my collection because I'm a huuuuuge Suikoden fan, and I probably could make it through without too much trouble since I've finished the game multiple times on the PSX, but to me it's kind of a silly argument to make in the Saturn's favor. While you're at it you might pick up the Playstation's 2 text adventure gaiden if only for collecting purposes.

edit = @ RSG vs Einhander: Einhander all the way in every dept unless one's looking for sheer challenge. IS is cool too. Square can make good shooters.

Thenewguy
02-02-2012, 07:01 PM
Sadly none of those are better than the Gran Turismo series.Dude, don't even dignify that post with a reply, half of the games he listed are clearly trash, most of them were struggling to get 6/10 in 1995 ffs.

Hi-Octane is mediocre, worse still the damn game is superior on Playstation anyway. Sega Touring Cars is awful, GT24 is mediocre, Hang On GP is mediocre and controls like crap, Wangan Dead Heat is meh.

This is the sort of list which basically proves a console has a weakness, because its barrel scraping of the highest calibur.

tz101
02-02-2012, 07:05 PM
It still doesn't negate the fact that those games are not PS1 exclusives, and some are better on the Saturn. And in this day and age you can always play both versions. I played Grandia on the PS1 first, then I got the Saturn version and enjoyed it a lot more for the following reasons:

1) The frame rate is much more stable
2) The sound quality is better
3) The spell effects are nicer
4) The backgrounds are nicer looking
5) The scenery looks better
6) The Japanese voices are better
7) The game doesn't randomly crash like the PS1 version does. I can't even count the number of times Grandia crashed for me on my PS2. Every time I played it it was pretty much a race to the save point before it crashed.

If you know the story, there's no reason to own the PS1 version of the Saturn version. The Saturn version is just better.

If you have to play the PSX version first to understand the Saturn version, then that should close this thread.

Baloo
02-02-2012, 07:07 PM
One thing I never understood about Sega-16 is that people go to such lengths to try and prove their opinions right!

I mean after all, it's just an opinion, we've all got different ones. I like it when we all share our opinions and why, even better when we don't bicker over who's wrong and who's right because you know, we're all right. :)

Zz Badnusty
02-02-2012, 07:20 PM
Liquid Kids, Hyper Duel, Hansha de Spark, Saturn Bomberman, Bomberman Fight, Shining the Holy Ark, Elevator Action Returns, Metal Black, Daytona USA CE and on and on...
they are all more pleasing to me than say Harmful Park, Raiden DX, Zanac Neo, Gamera 2000, any Final Fantasy, Hermie Hopperhead, Jumping Flash, Namco Museums.. etc etc

A year or more ago I would have said Playstation wins just because of the huge amount and variety of games available as well as peripherals. As I have mentioned repeatedly elsewhere: after going back to Saturn after years of mainly playing PSX/PS2, Saturn provides much more enjoyment - end of story.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 08:20 PM
Dude, don't even dignify that post with a reply, half of the games he listed are clearly trash, most of them were struggling to get 6/10 in 1995 ffs.

Hi-Octane is mediocre, worse still the damn game is superior on Playstation anyway. Sega Touring Cars is awful, GT24 is mediocre, Hang On GP is mediocre and controls like crap, Wangan Dead Heat is meh.

This is the sort of list which basically proves a console has a weakness, because its barrel scraping of the highest calibur.

I didn't say they were all great racers, simply that there were more racers than Sega Rally and Daytona. I don't really consider Ridge Racer and it's sequels to be that great either. I'd rate Sega Rally, Sega Touring Car, and Daytona above the Ridge Racer franchise any day of the week.

NeoVamp
02-02-2012, 08:35 PM
I didn't say they were all great racers

While I on the other hand posted a list of great racers, had I chosen to pad it up with more unknown/undesirable stuff the list would have been like 3x as long.


I don't really consider Ridge Racer and it's sequels to be that great either

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, my opinion is that it offers a great racing experience, on par with Daytona, except on PSX there's 4! :D

retrospiel
02-02-2012, 08:40 PM
I am sure all these games are great but I still prefer spending my time with Sega Rally and Daytona CE

sheath
02-02-2012, 08:41 PM
The quantity of quality titles being far and away on the PS1's side argument doesn't hold much weight for me. Take every quality game for the Saturn, throw in a ton of licensed games and sports games that actually do degrade the quality of the library, and add 3-6 sequels to said quality games released years after the Saturn was even on the market, and you have the Playstation library.

Would the Saturn library be "far and away better" if it had:

Tthree or four different annual sports franchises for every sport
Multiple unremarkable games for every Disney Pixar movie
The Army men games
and two sequels for every top tier Saturn title?

No, that would make the Saturn library worse.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 09:00 PM
While I on the other hand posted a list of great racers, had I chosen to pad it up with more unknown/undesirable stuff the list would have been like 3x as long.

Great is debatable. I've always found Ridge Racer to look crappy and I never have had the desire to play any of them since I played them years ago.

For racing games on the Saturn that I'd consider great I'd list the following:
Daytona USA
Daytona USA CCE/CE
Sega Rally Championship
Sega Touring Car Championship
High Velocity / Touge King the Spirits
Touge King the Spirits 2
Cyber Speedway / Gran Chaser
Need for Speed
Drift King 97
Outrun
Power Drift
Sonic R
Street Racer
Scorcher

I'd say that's a pretty good list of racing games on the Saturn.

j_factor
02-02-2012, 09:02 PM
I haven't read this whole thread, but I will just say that I love both, but have to give the (slight) nod to the Saturn.

sheath
02-02-2012, 09:09 PM
Great is debatable. I've always found Ridge Racer to look crappy and I never have had the desire to play any of them since I played them years ago.

For racing games on the Saturn that I'd consider great I'd list the following:
Daytona USA
Daytona USA CCE/CE
Daytona USA 2
Daytona USA 3
Daytona USA 4
Sega Rally Championship
Sega Rally 2
Sega Rally 3
Sega Touring Car Championship
Sega Touring Car Championship 2
Sega TouringCar Championship 3
High Velocity / Touge King the Spirits
Touge King the Spirits 2
Touge King the Spirits 3
Touge King the Spirits 4
Cyber Speedway / Gran Chaser
Cyber Speedway 2
Cyber Speedway 3
Need for Speed
Need for Speed 2
Need for Speed 3 Hot Persuit
Need for Speed High Stakes
Need for Speed Porche
Drift King 97
Drift King 98
Drift King 99
Drift King 00
Drift King 01
Outrun
Outrun 2
Cyber Outrun
Outrun to Space
Power Drift
Power Drift 2
Power Drift 3
Sonic R
Sonic R 2
Sonic R 3
Street Racer
Street Racer 2
Street Racer 3
Scorcher
Scorcher 2
Scorchier

I'd say that's a pretty good list of racing games on the Saturn.

I agree completely, and I've padded the list as though the Saturn had lasted until 2002, Sega was like Namco and other Playstation third parties, and EA wasn't a bunch of "only one console market" douche bags.

Black_Tiger
02-02-2012, 09:19 PM
It's not like the Saturn has a library as small as the 32X or anything. Both the Saturn and Playstation have enough exclusives that are popular with enough people to justify the consoles. If the Playstation had every game that the Saturn does and more, that would be one thing. Both have great unique games that you can't get anywhere else. So although you don't have to like either, it's stupid to call someone else stupid for liking either or none or dismissing either as garbage.



I don't know why anyone would bother with the Japanese versions. Unless they actually can read Japanese.

I've been playing Japanese versions of games which have translations somewhere since the mid-nineties. I can't really understand kanji, but can read katakana and hiragana, but even before I could I played through every Japanese RPG I could get my hands on, without any guides to help. During periods when I couldn't justify keeping SNES versions of RPGs I don't need to read the "stories" of, I'd just play the SFC versions that I got for $5 - $10 each instead. Snatcher for Sega-CD helped me fill in the small gaps and confirmed the rest of what I'd assumed about the PCE version of Snatcher. It was cool to rent Lunar SSS, Lunar EB and Grandia bitd, after playing through the Saturn versions that I owned several times, just to flesh out the story a bit more. It never seemed worthwhile to try them in English again after that. I've loved RPGs since the 8-bit generation, but I actually enjoy the gameplay. At one point magazines began telling people that all that mattered for RPGs is the story, even though the story sucks in most English RPGs. If the story was the most important factor, then why bother playing RPGs at all and not just play digital comic games or watch anime instead?

I don't expect everyone who isn't fluent in Japanese to enjoy Japanese language RPGs, but there are many of us who do.






Great is debatable. I've always found Ridge Racer to look crappy and I never have had the desire to play any of them since I played them years ago.
I agree completely...

There's a reason that Daytona USA arcade machines are still in use all over the place and Ridge Racer are not. Same reason it was brought to current consoles. Daytona USA is one of those perfect, timeless games that captured that magic quality that similar timeless games have that can't be compensated against with tech specs, quantity of content, brand power or anything else. A port of Daytona USA with unpopular 3D graphics is still unmatched by a bunch of forgettable 'in the moment' racers. Sega Rally is another special classic Sega game that made the number one priority fun. They were both so successful at being entertaining that 3 tracks was enough. Some people prefer war sims to Metal Slug or sports management games to real-time sports games. So although not everyone can appreciate the arcade style nature of Daytona and Sega Rally, either alone justifies the console and did for me at the early launch.

eddiespruce
02-02-2012, 09:24 PM
I've been playing Japanese versions of games which have translations somewhere since the mid-nineties. I can't really understand kanji, but can read katakana and hiragana, but even before I could I played through every Japanese RPG I could get my hands on, without any guides to help. During periods when I couldn't justify keeping SNES versions of RPGs I don't need to read the "stories" of, I'd just play the SFC versions that I got for $5 - $10 each instead. Snatcher for Sega-CD helped me fill in the small gaps and confirmed the rest of what I'd assumed about the PCE version of Snatcher. It was cool to rent Lunar SSS, Lunar EB and Grandia bitd, after playing through the Saturn versions that I owned several times, just to flesh out the story a bit more. It never seemed worthwhile to try them in English again after that. I've loved RPGs since the 8-bit generation, but I actually enjoy the gameplay. At one point magazines began telling people that all that mattered for RPGs is the story, even though the story sucks in most English RPGs. If the story was the most important factor, then why bother playing RPGs at all and not just play digital comic games or watch anime instead?

I don't expect everyone who isn't fluent in Japanese to enjoy Japanese language RPGs, but there are many of us who do.

Like you, I can also read Hiragana and Katakana, but know very little Kanji, and I had to teach myself what I know. I can't really understand much of the dialogue between characters, but I can at least read most, if not everything in the status menus.

Black_Tiger
02-02-2012, 09:38 PM
Like you, I can also read Hiragana and Katakana, but know very little Kanji, and I had to teach myself what I know. I can't really understand much of the dialogue between characters, but I can at least read most, if not everything in the status menus.

If you're playing a game with CD acting, it doesn't take long to pick up the commonly used vocabulary in games and anime. I'd only been playing Japanese CD games for a few years when I met a Japanese exchange student who confirmed all the spoken words I'd learned. The only word that stumped her, when I asked what it meant, was "Deisada". I eventually figured out that it was supposed to be "Death Adder". :p

gamevet
02-02-2012, 09:52 PM
Actually having the opposite opinion to Mr. Smith is what should cause a ban TBH. A true Sega fan should be disappointed with the Saturn.

A Diehard Sega fan (arcade) was buying that console near launch. The Saturn was the Sega console I'd been waiting for, ever since they started adding the Sega CD and 32X to extend the life of the Genesis. My appreciation of Sega started in the arcades, long before the Master System and Genesis; the Saturn was finally the console that could deliver that experience in the home.




Still, I don't care about Sega, only games like Radiant Silvergun, Guardian Heroes, Thunderforce 5 and Panzer Dragoon Zwei. So Saturn ftw.

Those were great, but some of my favorites were Shining: The Holy Ark, Galactic Attack, Iron Storm, Last Gladiators, Shining Force 3, Sega Rally, Burning Rangers and Gun Griffon.




Like I said before, I'm not hating.. but saying the Saturn is better then the PS1 is just silly.. just because it has like 5 amazing games
and a bunch of properly ported Capcom fighters does not make it superior to the juggernaut of choices that is PSX.

There are a lot of great titles for the Saturn. Everyone lists the same popular titles over and over again, but there are many solid titles that get lost in the shuffle. The North American list has plenty of great titles to play, before having to look at the import games for something to play.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/saturn/916393-saturn/faqs/7161


001 - 3D Baseball
002 - Albert Odyssey: The Legend of Eldean
003 - Alien Trilogy
004 - All-Star Baseball
005 - Alone in the Dark: One-Eyed Jack's Revenge
006 - A.M.O.K.
007 - Andretti Racing
008 - Arcade's Greatest Hits: Atari
009 - Arcade's Greatest Hits: Williams
010 - Area 51
011 - Astal
012 - Baku Baku
013 - Bases Loaded '96
014 - Batman Forever: The Arcade Game
015 - Battle Arena Toshinden Remix
016 - Battle Arena Toshinden Ultimate Revenge Attack
017 - Battle Monsters
018 - Battle Stations
019 - Battlesport
020 - Black Dawn
021 - Black Fire
022 - Blast Chamber
023 - Blazing Dragons
024 - Blazing Heroes
025 - Braindead 13
026 - Breakpoint Tennis
027 - Bubble Bobble: Featuring Rainbow Islands
028 - Bug!
029 - Bug Too!
030 - Burning Rangers
031 - Bust-A-Move-2: Arcade Edition
032 - Bust-A-Move-3
033 - Casper
034 - Center Ring Boxing
035 - Clockwork Knight
036 - Clockwork Knight 2
037 - College Slam
038 - Command and Conquer
039 - Congo
040 - Contra: Legacy of War
041 - Corpse Killer
042 - Courier Crisis
043 - Creature Shock
044 - Crime Wave
045 - Criticom
046 - Croc: Legend of the Gobbos
047 - Crow: City of Angels
048 - Crusader: No Remorse
049 - Crypt Killer
050 - Cyber Speedway
051 - Cyberia
052 - D
053 - Darius Gaiden
054 - Dark Legend
055 - Dark Savior
056 - Darklight Conflict
057 - Daytona USA
058 - Daytona USA: Championship Circuit Edition
059 - Daytona USA: Championship Circuit Netlink Edition
060 - Decathlete
061 - Defcon 5
062 - Die Hard Arcade
063 - Die Hard Trilogy
064 - Doom
065 - Double Switch
066 - Dragon Force
067 - Dragon Heart: Fire and Steel
068 - Duke Nuke'm 3D
069 - Earthworm Jim 2
070 - Enemy Zero
071 - F1 Challenge
072 - FIFA Soccer '96
073 - FIFA Soccer '97
074 - FIFA World Cup Soccer '98
075 - Fighters Megamix
076 - Fighting Vipers
077 - Frank Thomas' Big Hurt Baseball
078 - Galactic Attack
079 - Galaxy Fight
080 - Gex
081 - Ghen War
082 - Golden Axe: The Duel
083 - Grand Slam '96
084 - Grid Runner
085 - Guardian Heroes
086 - Gun Griffon
087 - Hang-On GP
088 - Heir of Zendor
089 - Herc's Adventures
090 - Hexen
091 - Hi-Octane
092 - Hi Velocity
093 - Highway 2000
094 - Horde, The
095 - House of the Dead, The (bad port but still fun)
096 - Hyper 3D Pinball
097 - Impact Racing
098 - In the Hunt
099 - Incredible Hulk, The
100 - Independence Day
101 - Iron Man/X-O Man-O-War: Heavy Metal
102 - Iron Storm
103 - John Madden '97
104 - John Madden '98
105 - Johnny Bazookatone
106 - Last Bronx
107 - Last Gladiators: Digital Pinball
108 - Legend of Oasis
109 - Loaded
110 - Lost World, The: Jurassic Park 2
111 - Lunacy
112 - Machinehead
113 - Magic Carpet
114 - Magic Knight Rayearth
115 - Mansion of the Hidden Souls
116 - Manx TT Superbike
117 - Marvel Super Heroes
118 - Mass Destruction
119 - Maximum Force
120 - Mech Warrior II
121 - Megaman 8: Anniversary Collector's Edition
122 - Megaman X4
123 - MLBPA: Bottom of the Ninth
124 - Minnesota Fats Pool Legend
125 - Mortal Kombat II
126 - Mortal Kombat Trilogy
127 - Mr. Bones
128 - Myst
129 - Mystaria: The Realms of Lore
130 - Nascar '98
131 - NBA Action
132 - NBA Action '98
133 - NBA Jam Extreme
134 - NBA Jam Tournament Edition
135 - NBA Live '97
136 - NBA Live '98
137 - Need For Speed, The (I'm a little burned out on this one, but it was fun back in the day)
138 - NFL '97
139 - NFL Quarterback Club '96
140 - NFL Quarterback Club '97
141 - NHL '97
142 - NHL '98
143 - NHL All-Star Hockey
144 - NHL All-Star Hockey '98
145 - NHL Break-Away '96
146 - NiGHTS into Dreams...
147 - Nightwarriors: Darkstalker's Revenge
148 - Norse by Norsewest: The Lost Vikings 2
149 - Off-World Interceptor Extreme
150 - Olympic Soccer
151 - Pandemonium
152 - Panzer Dragoon
153 - Panzer Dragoon II Zwei
154 - Panzer Dragoon Saga
155 - Pebble Beach Golf
156 - PGA Tour '97
157 - Powerslave
158 - Primal Rage
159 - Pro Pinball
160 - P.T.O. II: Pacific Theatre of Operations II
161 - Quake
162 - Quarterback Attack
163 - Rampage: World Tour
164 - Rayman
165 - Resident Evil
166 - Revolution-X
167 - Rise 2: Resurrection
168 - Road Rash
169 - Robo Pit
168 - Robotica
169 - Romance of the III Kingdoms IV: Wall of Fire
170 - Saturn Bomberman
171 - Scorcher
172 - Scud: The Disposable Assassin
173 - Sega Ages: Afterburner, Outrun, Space Harrier
174 - Sega Rally Championship plus International Rally
175 - Sega Rally Championship plus International Rally: Netlink Edition
176 - Sega Touring Car Championship (this isn't a great port, but it's still fun to play)
177 - Sega Worldwide Soccer '97
178 - Sega Worldwide Soccer '98
179 - Shanghai Triple Threat
180 - Shell Shock
181 - Shining Force III
182 - Shining the Holy Ark
183 - Shining Wisdom
184 - Shinobi Legions
185 - Shockwave Assault
186 - Sim City 2000
187 - Skeleton Warriors
188 - Sky Target
189 - Slam & Jam '96
190 - Solar Eclipse
191 - Sonic 3D Blast
192 - Sonic Jam
193 - Sonic R
194 - Soviet Strike
195 - Space Hulk
196 - Space Jam
197 - Spot Goes To Hollywood
198 - Star Fighter
199 - Steep Slope Sliders
200 - Street Fighter Alpha: Warrior's Dreams
201 - Street Fighter Alpha 2
202 - Street Fighter Collection
203 - Street Fighter: The Movie
204 - Striker '96
205 - Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo
206 - Tempest 2000 (I like this version over that of the Jag)
207 - Ten Pin Alley
208 - Tetris Plus!
209 - Theme Park
210 - Three Dirty Dwarves
211 - Thunderstrike 2
212 - TNN Motorsports: Hardcore 4x4
213 - Tomb Raider
214 - True Pinball
215 - Tunnel B1
216 - Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3
217 - Valora Valley Golf
218 - Virtua Cop
219 - Virtua Cop 2
220 - Virtua Fighter
221 - Virtua Fighter 2
222 - Virtua Fighter Kids
223 - Virtua Fighter Remix
224 - Virtua Racing
225 - Virtual Casino
226 - Virtual Hydlide
227 - Virtual-On: Cyber Troopers
228 - Virtual-On: Cyber Troopers: Netlink Edition
229 - Virtual Open Tennis
230 - VR Golf
231 - VR Soccer
232 - Warcraft 2: The Dark Saga
233 - Wing Arms (highly under-rated)
234 - Winning Post
235 - Winter Heat
236 - Wipeout
237 - World Cup Golf Pro
238 - World Series Baseball
239 - World Series Baseball II
240 - World Series Baseball '98
241 - Worldwide Soccer: Sega International Victory Goal Edition
242 - Worms
243 - WWF In Your House
244 - WWF Wrestlemenia: The Arcade Game
245 - X-Men: Children of the Atom

----------

And onto the demo list:

----------

01 - Bootleg CD Sampler
02 - Bootleg CD Sampler II
03 - Christmas NiGHTS into Dreams... Sampler
04 - NiGHTS into Dreams... Sampler
05 - Panzer Dragoon Playable Demo
06 - Rayman Playable Demo

Thenewguy
02-02-2012, 10:00 PM
There's a reason that Daytona USA arcade machines are still in use all over the place and Ridge Racer are not.Because Ridge Racer was ported well to a console with a huge userbase and the game litters the shelves of second hand stores worldwide for small change whilst Daytona was ported badly to a console few people own per chance?

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 10:05 PM
Because Ridge Racer was ported well to a console with a huge userbase and the game litters the shelves of second hand stores worldwide for small change whilst Daytona was ported badly to a console few people own per chance?

Or it's that Daytona is simply a better game than Ridge Racer.

gamevet
02-02-2012, 10:12 PM
Because Ridge Racer was ported well to a console with a huge userbase and the game litters the shelves of second hand stores worldwide for small change whilst Daytona was ported badly to a console few people own per chance?

There's also the Dreamcast version. ;)

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 10:15 PM
Then there was the time at Sony's E3 2006 Press Conference when Kaz Hirai showe off Ridge Racer on the PSP. Then when no one cheered he screamed "RIIIIIIIIIIIDGE RACER!" to get nothing but crickets for a reply. That really shows you how much people don't care about Ridge Racer these days.

Thenewguy
02-02-2012, 10:18 PM
There's also the Dreamcast version. ;)I don't know about the US, but Daytona 2001 doesn't litter the shelves of 2nd hand stores in the UK for small change, in fact, I haven't seen it anywhere for a while, and never remember it being sold for less than maybe £15.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-02-2012, 10:20 PM
My used game store has new sealed copies of Daytona USA for the Dreamcast for about $15.

gamevet
02-02-2012, 10:20 PM
I don't know about the US, but Daytona 2001 doesn't litter the shelves of 2nd hand stores in the UK for small change, in fact, I haven't seen it anywhere for a while, and never remember it being sold for less than maybe £15.

That's because Daytona is a title you keep in your collection. Ridge Racer is a title you play for a couple of hours, then sell it off.

DarkDragon
02-02-2012, 10:28 PM
I'm a PSX guy but no way am I gonna defend Ridge Racer. I got RR4 because I was seducued by the graphics, music, and spectacular intro but actually gameplay to me was more like meh. My first and last RR game. Daytona USA ? Maybe its better but its still just racing and racing games dont sell consoles. Gran Turismo probably has it all but to a novice and aracde racing fan its just too complicated and confusing.

old man
02-02-2012, 10:38 PM
I sold my saturn stuff a few months ago, and haven't missed it at all.

Splatterhouse5
02-02-2012, 10:58 PM
This was my point, and the whole reason why I enjoy the Saturn more than the Playstation. The PSX may have quantity, but the Saturn has QUALITY!


Yeah, because Suikoden 1 & 2, Final Fantasy 7, 8, 9, & Tactics, Chrono Cross, Xenogears, Vagrant Story, Valkyrie Profile, Persona 1 & 2, Vandal Hearts 1 & 2, Alundra, and Tactics Ogre is just library-padding, bottom of the barrel, half-hearted "quantity".

Panzer Dragoon Saga may be a great game, but I'll choose that meaty list of PSX RPGs any day of the week. It's the PSX for me, and it's not even close.

Kamahl
02-02-2012, 11:09 PM
Vagrant Story
Only found about it recently, seems really awesome.

Chilly Willy
02-03-2012, 12:42 AM
I'm a PSX guy but no way am I gonna defend Ridge Racer. I got RR4 because I was seducued by the graphics, music, and spectacular intro but actually gameplay to me was more like meh. My first and last RR game. Daytona USA ? Maybe its better but its still just racing and racing games dont sell consoles. Gran Turismo probably has it all but to a novice and aracde racing fan its just too complicated and confusing.

Well, I'll defend RR - I play it still to this day (mainly on my PSP), while I've only played Daytona once. Daytona sucks donkey dong compared to RR - it can't compare on any level. Sorry, Daytona just sucks so bad it puzzles me no end how people can stand playing it, much less recommend it over the far superior RR.

gamevet
02-03-2012, 12:49 AM
Well, I'll defend RR - I play it still to this day (mainly on my PSP), while I've only played Daytona once. Daytona sucks donkey dong compared to RR - it can't compare on any level. Sorry, Daytona just sucks so bad it puzzles me no end how people can stand playing it, much less recommend it over the far superior RR.


:fail:

DarkDragon
02-03-2012, 01:07 AM
Need for Speed III is the holy grail of PSX racers for me. I was so stoked for NFS 4 but imagine my horror when I found it to be barely playable due to all the massive slowdown. I dont know what went wrong because it was so bad and much worse than in NFS III.

Chilly Willy
02-03-2012, 03:19 AM
Well, I'll defend RR - I play it still to this day (mainly on my PSP), while I've only played Daytona once. Daytona sucks donkey dong compared to RR - it can't compare on any level. Sorry, Daytona just sucks so bad it puzzles me no end how people can stand playing it, much less recommend it over the far superior RR.

:fail:

Obviously, it's partly exageration, but mostly mocking imitation of most of the RR detractors.
:D

j_factor
02-03-2012, 03:44 AM
Daytona is not my favorite, but Ridge Racer just sucks IMO. I never saw the appeal of that series. I think I prefer the Saturn for racing games. I always hated the likes of Gran Turismo. I did enjoy some of the more obscure ones on Playstation like RC de Go and Felony 11-79. But Saturn has Out Run and Power Drift and Scorcher and other goodness. I'm sure I've played Out Run more than anything else.

I have to agree that PSX kills for RPGs (I don't play them in Japanese), but what Saturn does have is excellent. Shining the Holy Ark and Dragon Force are two of my favorite RPGs ever.

jerry coeurl
02-03-2012, 03:47 AM
Only found about it recently, seems really awesome.

Vagrant Story is amazing, I just recently played through it for the first time and it's such a fantastic game. I've been meaning to make a post about it on here, actually. I'm of the opinion that it's the best game on the PlayStation, as well as the best game Squaresoft ever produced (and I'm a huge fan of their PSX output in general). It's got a great story, the best localization of any game I've ever played, really deep gameplay mechanics, and amazing cinematography in the cutscenes (which all use the game engine, no FMV). I would recommend checking out the game mechanics guide on GameFAQS before you start, though, as the manual barely even scratches the surface of all the various systems at work. But it's completely worth it, imo.

The best game on the PlayStation.


Yeah, because Suikoden 1 & 2, Final Fantasy 7, 8, 9, & Tactics, Chrono Cross, Xenogears, Vagrant Story, Valkyrie Profile, Persona 1 & 2, Vandal Hearts 1 & 2, Alundra, and Tactics Ogre is just library-padding, bottom of the barrel, half-hearted "quantity".

Panzer Dragoon Saga may be a great game, but I'll choose that meaty list of PSX RPGs any day of the week. It's the PSX for me, and it's not even close.

Yeah, I agree with this. Panzer Dragoon Saga is one of my favorite games ever, but the RPG selection on the PSX is just so packed to the brim with fantastic titles that the Saturn can't really compete. It's not an argument of quality vs. quantity when you're discussing PSX RPGs, it's quality and quantity.

j_factor
02-03-2012, 03:56 AM
Oh yeah, I love Vagrant Story. I remember it came out one week before my birthday, and for some reason that (along with previews and a tv commercial) made me want it more. I bought it with birthday money and was glued to it for the next two weeks. Some people find the battle system obtuse but it just clicked for me.

Crackdown
02-03-2012, 09:20 AM
Can I just add this: IT'S NOT CALLED THE BLOODY PSX!

It's the PS1 or PlayStation. Either is fine, thankyou.

Let the Saturn worship re-commence.

StarMist
02-03-2012, 10:54 AM
One thing I never understood about Sega-16 is that people go to such lengths to try and prove their opinions right!Then you'd better be prepared when Sega-32 gets under way, it's going to be twice as much arguing.


I mean after all, it's just an opinion, we've all got different ones. I like it when we all share our opinions and why, even better when we don't bicker over who's wrong and who's right because you know, we're all right. :) Nope. Just you and me.

TVC 15
02-03-2012, 11:21 AM
I'm well known for talking shite about the Saturn's architecture on this board, obsessively trying to understand how this thing works. I both love and loathe how obtuse it is as a system.

But seriously regarding which is better? All three consoles have something to offer from that generation, though I could live without an N64 and own a Saturn and a PSX despite some of the awesome stuff on it, but If I had only a PSX and N64 I could'nt live without my Saturn. :)

The very things about the system some people might loathe, I love, its part of its charm.

I prefer the Saturn subjectively, but I'm not going to turn down the PSX. In fact I intend to get a Jap PSX when I can afford it, I never had a PSX back in the day so there is so much I want to try, I might come back disappointed and my opinion solidified regarding which is my favourite. I don't even like Sony's business practices, but lets face it they made good hardware, and many different developers coded good stuff for it. So for someone to dissmissivly suggest they don't like one without playing it enough is pretty poor, I'll only respect opinions in this debate if they've had a good taste of each platform. Even saying the controller is shite as an excuse to hate on the PSX is a piss-poor, I love the Dreamcast, but its controller is an absolute joke in nearly every conceivable way IMHO, but I'll still stand by it and defend the system.

Do we really have to rag on both systems, Sega and Sony (Ninty likewise) have done some pretty reprehensible things in there company histories. The marketplace decided the victors, rightly or wrongly, hell Sega probably did more damage to themselves than the competition. People just seem to put these illogical walls up defensively and attach certain ill founded reasons to why they don't like one console, of course people are allowed there own opinion, but playing Crash Bandicoot for 45 mins and throwing your arms up in anger and declaring you'll never try anything else on the system and the Playstation was terrible is a bit childish.

Below is my own completely unfounded, biased, childish and trollish opinion of the whole situation:



How can you can compare 25 or so Playstation racing titles to the 17 racers on the Saturn? Sega Rally's quality alone makes it worth so much more, SR is worth ten of your shitty western generic sci-fi themed racers on the Playstation.

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLO :cool:

NeoVamp
02-03-2012, 12:08 PM
Can I just add this: IT'S NOT CALLED THE BLOODY PSX!

It's the PS1 or PlayStation. Either is fine, thankyou.



Nope It's called PSX, we decided on that a while ago..

You might wanna search some threads, in one of them there was proof of the PSX being used by magazines before and even a bit after the release of the console.

And thus the only people who say PS1 are poor people who couldn't afford a PSX when it came out and instead got the tiny PS1 years later.

The real manly men who were there from day one call it PSX.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-03-2012, 12:11 PM
How can you can compare 25 or so Playstation racing titles to the 17 racers on the Saturn? Sega Rally's quality alone makes it worth so much more, SR is worth ten of your shitty western generic sci-fi themed racers on the Playstation.

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLO :cool:

If us Saturn fans were truly trolling in our replies to PS1 Racers, we would have said Race Drivin' on the Saturn is the best Racing Game ever made and is leaps and bounds better than any PS1 racer.

Crackdown
02-03-2012, 12:19 PM
Nope It's called PSX, we decided on that a while ago..

You might wanna search some threads, in one of them there was proof of the PSX being used by magazines before and even a bit after the release of the console.

And thus the only people who say PS1 are poor people who couldn't afford a PSX when it came out and instead got the tiny PS1 years later.

The real manly men who were there from day one call it PSX.

No only stupid people call it the PSX (which is a different machine)

Sony only ever called it this during development and never again after. Please point out the "X" for me in the PlayStation's name.

(unless maybe its called PlayStation suX :p)

TrekkiesUnite118
02-03-2012, 12:28 PM
We could just say PS.

DarkDragon
02-03-2012, 01:14 PM
I say PSOne. I like the sound and spelling of it.

j_factor
02-03-2012, 01:46 PM
No only stupid people call it the PSX (which is a different machine)

Sony only ever called it this during development and never again after. Please point out the "X" for me in the PlayStation's name.

(unless maybe its called PlayStation suX :p)

Please point out the "1" for me in the PlayStation's name. None of my PlayStation games have that numeral. Sony only ever called it that in contrast to the PS2 and never before.

The nickname "PSX" has been around since the birth of the system. When you call it "PS1" it makes me wonder what you used to call it. Because you certainly weren't saying "PS1" in 1998.

Crackdown
02-03-2012, 01:51 PM
No I was calling it PlayStation of course because that is what it was called ;)

I then called it the PS1 when the PS2 came out, just like Sony did.

I certainly never called it the PSX because thats not its name. :p

j_factor
02-03-2012, 01:53 PM
PS1 is not its name either. :p

Black_Tiger
02-03-2012, 02:02 PM
No I was calling it PlayStation of course because that is what it was called ;)

I then called it the PS1 when the PS2 came out, just like Sony did.

I certainly never called it the PSX because thats not its name. :p

Of course not, it's a nickname. Like calling the Sega Power Base "Sega Master System" or "SMS".

I wouldn't call anyone using SMS, or even a completely original nickname stupid. Especially if it is obvious to everyone what they mean by the term.

NeoVamp
02-03-2012, 02:20 PM
Those of the inner circle who were there from the start embraced the codename PSX, for it is extreme with an X.

PSX 4 life.

GreyFox
02-03-2012, 02:32 PM
Iím getting a little confused here. It is obvious that the PSX/PS/PS1/PSOne/PlayStation has a fantastic library of games covering just about every genre and trying to argue that it hasnít is a pointless exercise. Strip away all the dross and there is still a superb library of titles to appeal to most tastes.

However this is no way reflects on the quality of the Saturn library. The two are independent. You can prefer one to the other regardless of the quality or quantity of the other.

Think of it like this. You are a big fan of fish but canít stand steak. Your friend suggests going for dinner and gives you a choice of two restaurants. One of these is a small seafood restaurant, famed among those in the know for its specialist fish dishes. There isnít a huge choice but some of the dishes on the menu are among your all time favourites. The other restaurant he suggests is a famous Steak House offering over a thousand variations of steak dishes. It has won awards for being the best steak house in the country and offers steak based starters, mains and desserts. There is no disputing the quality or quantity of the steak on offer. However the fish lover is likely to choose the first one with less choice.

(Obviously this analogy really needs the fish restaurant to offer slightly cut down versions of the steak dishes that are on offer in the Steak House and for the steak house to offer some seafood options too)

The PSX/PS/PS1/PSOne/PlayStation has lots of wonderful games and some truly magical hidden gems.

However this poll is which do you prefer. Not which one has the better library in terms of racing games or RPGís etc. If your all time favourite game is Sega Rally then no amount of other racing games on an alternative system are likely to persuade you that you should prefer that system unless you prefer 1 (or more) of those racing games to Sega Rally. None of which reflects on the quality of those games, just the preferences of the individual.

People treat consoles with the kind of tribalism usually reserved for football (soccer) teams where a foul by the opposition is always a penalty and sending off but if it is their player the ref is a cheat/incompetent.

It isn't a choice of which has the bigger and/or better library but which library you prefer.

Kamahl
02-03-2012, 02:47 PM
Iím getting a little confused here. It is obvious that the PSX/PS/PS1/PSOne/PlayStation has a fantastic library of games covering just about every genre and trying to argue that it hasnít is a pointless exercise. Strip away all the dross and there is still a superb library of titles to appeal to most tastes.

However this is no way reflects on the quality of the Saturn library. The two are independent. You can prefer one to the other regardless of the quality or quantity of the other.

Think of it like this. You are a big fan of fish but canít stand steak. Your friend suggests going for dinner and gives you a choice of two restaurants. One of these is a small seafood restaurant, famed among those in the know for its specialist fish dishes. There isnít a huge choice but some of the dishes on the menu are among your all time favourites. The other restaurant he suggests is a famous Steak House offering over a thousand variations of steak dishes. It has won awards for being the best steak house in the country and offers steak based starters, mains and desserts. There is no disputing the quality or quantity of the steak on offer. However the fish lover is likely to choose the first one with less choice.

(Obviously this analogy really needs the fish restaurant to offer slightly cut down versions of the steak dishes that are on offer in the Steak House and for the steak house to offer some seafood options too)

The PSX/PS/PS1/PSOne/PlayStation has lots of wonderful games and some truly magical hidden gems.

However this poll is which do you prefer. Not which one has the better library in terms of racing games or RPGís etc. If your all time favourite game is Sega Rally then no amount of other racing games on an alternative system are likely to persuade you that you should prefer that system unless you prefer 1 (or more) of those racing games to Sega Rally. None of which reflects on the quality of those games, just the preferences of the individual.

People treat consoles with the kind of tribalism usually reserved for football (soccer) teams where a foul by the opposition is always a penalty and sending off but if it is their player the ref is a cheat/incompetent.

It isn't a choice of which has the bigger and/or better library but which library you prefer.
Dude, less making sense, more flaming ;)

TrekkiesUnite118
02-03-2012, 02:54 PM
Excellent, while the Playstation Fans are bickering over what to call the thing the Saturn fans are standing united and making sure the Saturn wins the poll!

sheath
02-03-2012, 03:10 PM
Iím getting a little confused here. It is obvious that the PSX/PS/PS1/PSOne/PlayStation has a fantastic library of games covering just about every genre and trying to argue that it hasnít is a pointless exercise. Strip away all the dross and there is still a superb library of titles to appeal to most tastes.


This is exactly the problem, and what makes me cringe every time I look at the PS1 library. I have to sift through piles of oozing nastiness to find the solid library on the Playstation. By the time I'm done stripping away the crap I'm not even in the mood to play a game. Your restaurant analogy doesn't work, because I have to look at what I don't like on every shelf in every store with PS1 games, and I frequently only find what I don't want.

Barone
02-03-2012, 03:13 PM
Excellent, while the Playstation Fans are bickering over what to call the thing the Saturn fans are standing united and making sure the Saturn wins the poll!
It's so hard to make a Sega console win a poll in Sega-16... Congratulations!

Crackdown
02-03-2012, 03:15 PM
Excellent, while the Playstation Fans are bickering over what to call the thing the Saturn fans are standing united and making sure the Saturn wins the poll!

Take that back!

Don't ever call me a PlayStation fan, I actually think I need to go shower now I feel so dirty and then play some Sega Rally to cleanse myself.

Kamahl
02-03-2012, 03:18 PM
It's so hard to make a Sega console win a poll in Sega-16... Congratulations!
Huh? Like Mr. Smith said, if you're a Mega Drive fan you should HATE the Saturn. If anything the results are surprising. (Well, not really, because the Saturn is just cooler :cool:)
Either that or people just hate the PS1 more XD.

sheath
02-03-2012, 03:24 PM
I ended up liking the Saturn because it felt like a return to the Master System days where every game was something different and experimental. I was bored of Genesis gaming from about 1993 on, which is why I enjoy the Sega CD and 32X so much.

Barone
02-03-2012, 03:29 PM
Huh? Like Mr. Smith said, if you're a Mega Drive fan you should HATE the Saturn. If anything the results are surprising. (Well, not really, because the Saturn is just cooler :cool:)
Either that or people just hate the PS1 more XD.
I think that most of the Sega-16 crowd hates Sony.
I saw several guys praising Virtual Console here, in many threads... It's hard to see anyone talking about PSN with good words.

Mega Drive fans should hate Nintendo like the plague and it isn't what I see here.
Sony usually gets more hate here as many guys see it as the responsible for the 32X's fail, Saturn's fail, Dreamcast's fail and Sega's death in the console hardware market.

16-bit
02-03-2012, 03:30 PM
I know we've stopped talking racing games a few pages back, but I am kind of disturbed that no one has mentioned the best racing game of that generation, which is Crash Team Racing...

tz101
02-03-2012, 03:59 PM
I wonder how many that are trashing the PSX on this thread are secretly stepping away from the computer to pop in a Crash Bandicoot or Jet Moto disc for some serious fun?

GreyFox
02-03-2012, 03:59 PM
<<<Dude, less making sense, more flaming >>>

Well the flame effects on PSX/PS/PS1/PSOne/PlayStation were generally better than on Saturn.....oh right sorry misunderstood ;)

TrekkiesUnite118
02-03-2012, 04:15 PM
Jet Moto? Really? Jet Moto 2 came with my Playstation and it was the first game I sold to EB in my life. It was by far the most broken and awful game I had ever played. After about 30 minutes of trying to play that game I gave up and went back to playing my Genesis and Saturn. That game seriously turned me off to the Playstation for months. I didn't even think of buying new games for the thing until my brothers friend showed me demos of Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil 2, and Final Fantasy 7 and Final Fantasy 8. In all honesty if it weren't for those 4 games I wouldn't have kept my PS1 for very long, and I probably wouldn't have later traded it in for a PS2.

You couldn't pay me enough to play that game again.

Da_Shocker
02-03-2012, 04:15 PM
Where is the poll actually at on here and IMO it's the Saturn all the way.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-03-2012, 04:16 PM
Where is the poll actually at on here and IMO it's the Saturn all the way.

It looks to be at about 40% for the Playstation and 60% for the Saturn.

Kamahl
02-03-2012, 04:19 PM
Well the flame effects on PSX/PS/PS1/PSOne/PlayStation were generally better than on Saturn.....oh right sorry misunderstood ;)
But the Saturn does the wavy distortion effect that results from fire better :p

TrekkiesUnite118
02-03-2012, 04:22 PM
But the Saturn does the wavy distortion effect that results from fire better :p

We should make a device to allow the Saturn and Playstation to work together to render fire! Playstation can draw the flames, Saturn can draw the wavy effect.

DarkDragon
02-03-2012, 04:36 PM
I know we've stopped talking racing games a few pages back, but I am kind of disturbed that no one has mentioned the best racing game of that generation, which is Crash Team Racing...

I loved that game and its better than Mario Kart 64 and Saturn didnt have a Sonic kart racer.

TrekkiesUnite118
02-03-2012, 04:38 PM
Sonic R is a pretty good substitute for a Sonic Kart racer.

DarkDragon
02-03-2012, 04:40 PM
Sonic R is a pretty good substitute for a Sonic Kart racer.

Oh yeah I forgot that one but please dont tell me its better than Crash and Mario karts

eddiespruce
02-03-2012, 04:41 PM
Oh yeah I forgot that one but please dont tell me its better than Crash and Mario karts

I actually did prefer Sonic R over those two games. Was never a fan of the Mario Kart games.

sheath
02-03-2012, 04:43 PM
I wouldn't say it is better, I wouldn't even say Sonic R is a substitute. But Sonic R can be a lot of fun, sometimes I start from scratch just to unlock everything all over again. It is also danged impressive as a graphical showpiece and I love love love the music (with the lyrics off, mostly).

Crash Team Racing is a Mario Kart Clone with a lot of merit of its own. Sonic R is a completely unique and, in my opinion, fairly well made racer. Has anybody played Mad Dash Racing?

TrekkiesUnite118
02-03-2012, 04:49 PM
What sheath said. I love Mariokart 64, it's probably my favorite kart racer of that era. I got Sonic R hoping it would be like MarioKart, though it wasn't anything like it, I still enjoyed it and found it to be a great title to have for the system. Only 2 thing disappointed me with Sonic R. First was the lack of Tracks. There's only 5, while MarioKart on a cartridge has about 4 times that. The other thing that disappointed me was the lack of Multiplayer game modes. A Battle mode would have been quite fun.

DarkDragon
02-03-2012, 04:53 PM
What sheath said. I love Mariokart 64, it's probably my favorite kart racer of that era. I got Sonic R hoping it would be like MarioKart, though it wasn't anything like it, I still enjoyed it and found it to be a great title to have for the system. Only 2 thing disappointed me with Sonic R. First was the lack of Tracks. There's only 5, while MarioKart on a cartridge has about 4 times that. The other thing that disappointed me was the lack of Multiplayer game modes. A Battle mode would have been quite fun.

I had Sonic Gems collection which has Sonic R on it but I barely played it. If it really only has 5 tracks then how the heck can that compare to Crash Team Racing which I think has 17- 18 tracks not to mention double digit playable characters.

sheath
02-03-2012, 05:40 PM
I haven't played through CTR, but I would be absolutely floored if most of the tracks weren't mirrored, or at least same theme remixes, of other tracks. Sonic R went way out of its way developing unique Sonic style themes for each track. They easily could have tripled the track count by dumping the hidden items and unlocks and simply randomizing the levels into new ones.

Black_Tiger
02-03-2012, 08:09 PM
I had Sonic Gems collection which has Sonic R on it but I barely played it. If it really only has 5 tracks then how the heck can that compare to Crash Team Racing which I think has 17- 18 tracks not to mention double digit playable characters.

If Sonic 4 ends up with mores stages than any Genesis Sonic game, does that mean that Sonic 1 - 3, S&K and CD can't compare to Sonic 4?

Gogogadget
02-03-2012, 08:17 PM
Personally, I found Sonic R to be really quite bad, it doesn't control particularly well, and there's only 5 tracks.

And you can say "yeah they are all unique though" any way you like, 5 tracks really isn't very many.

StarMist
02-03-2012, 08:20 PM
If Sonic 4 ends up with mores stages than any Genesis Sonic game, does that mean that Sonic 1 - 3, S&K and CD can't compare to Sonic 4?
Yes if all Sonic 4's levels and the mechanics used to play them are of equal quality to the former games'.

re the # of tracks = I can believe it. For one thing cart style racing games don't strike me as having detail-intensive lv design as opposed to something like RR4 which obviously details a normal city and realistic cars w/ at least 10 tracks. Furthermore PS games seem to use a smaller amount of data for the same results as Saturn games (just a ROMming observation); often I've noticed the same ISO be a third larger on SS than PS. Could that be due to the quadrilateral polygons? Anyhow those late Colin Macrae games had 80+ tracks each; though my credence remains in the wings they aren't extremely bland and recycled.

@gogogadget = Indeed, the looser the play the more tracks needed, and Sonic R is a party game. It's one thing for lapshavers like Rally or Wipeout--or even an FPS one takes seriously--but Sonic R is definitely hurt by the shortage. The game goes in what I call the bonus class: not stuff to buy a console for or even look forward to but rather stuff that will only be enjoyed by those who chance on it w/o expectations. Linkle Liver, Steamgear Mash, Scorcher, Crusader No Remorse are other Saturn exms.

sheath
02-03-2012, 08:26 PM
When Crash Team Racing came out I found it a tedious copy of Mario Kart 64 and could not be bothered to figure out how many derivative levels it had. I have since learned to appreciate it more, but still don't actually enjoy playing CTR.

When I got Sonic R at its release I was impressed by everything except that it clearly was not an answer to Mario Kart 64. I wished it was at the time. Then I got into the game, unlocking everything was entertaining, playing as different characters was as well. When Sonic R came out for the PC I picked it up too, and enjoyed unlocking everything again. This one had more mirror options plus weather just like the version in Sonic Gems Collection has. Which reminds me, I enjoyed unlocking everything and playing as all of the characters in Sonic Gems on Gamecube as well. Oh yeah, I have owned the US and Jpn versions of Sonic R for the Saturn, and have restarted each at least five times.

By now, I hope "why" is the question at hand. It is because of the excellent level design and overall presentation of graphics and sound. I would say I have gotten more than a fair share of play time out of Sonic R.

Black_Tiger
02-03-2012, 08:32 PM
Yes if all Sonic 4's levels and the mechanics used to play them are of equal quality to the former games'.

re the # of tracks = I can believe it. For one thing cart style racing games don't strike me as having detail-intensive lv design as opposed to something like RR4 which obviously details a normal city and realistic cars w/ at least 10 tracks. Furthermore PS games seem to use a smaller amount of data for the same results as Saturn games (just a ROMming observation); often I've noticed the same ISO be a third larger on SS than PS. Could that be due to the quadrilateral polygons? Anyhow those late Colin Macrae games had 80+ tracks each; though my credence remains in the wings they aren't extremely bland and recycled..

That's my point. Quality should come before quantity. I'm not going to pass judgement on CTR or compare it to Sonic R, since I haven't played much of it and am not a fan of cart racers. I just don't think that having a bunch of tracks/stages/etc makes one game better than another before you even play them.

Baloo
02-03-2012, 09:02 PM
Personally I love Sonic R, but I'll agree it's not as good as it could be. The tracks are great, and if there were just three more on the disc it probably would be heralded as a much better racing game to be honest. The controls take some time to get used to but it really captures that Sonic feel.

That being said for the best racing experience on the Saturn, the best options are Daytona USA and Sega Rally.

Thenewguy
02-03-2012, 09:29 PM
Sonic R was fun for the 3 hours it took to complete, but the game was buggy and unpolished, there's no 4-player mode and the draw distance on 2 player is so bad its worthless.

I would take Street Racer over Sonic R, at least it has 8 players and a decent number of tracks, and I would take bloody Mickey's Speedway, Lego Racers, or Snowboard Kids on N64, or Muppet Race Mania, or Looney Tunes Racing (PS1) over Street Racer, let alone the actual best Kart racers of that generation

Mario Kart 64, Crash Team Racing, Speed Freaks, Diddy Kong Racing, those are just clearly leagues ahead of any party racer on Saturn.

sheath
02-03-2012, 09:39 PM
I remember trying to sell people on Mickey's Speedway when they came looking for Mario Kart 64. Most of them wouldn't even want to try playing it even after I told them it was virtually the same game. I'd really like to pick up Street Racer at some point.

Thenewguy
02-03-2012, 11:54 PM
I remember trying to sell people on Mickey's Speedway when they came looking for Mario Kart 64. Most of them wouldn't even want to try playing it even after I told them it was virtually the same game. I'd really like to pick up Street Racer at some point.
Weirdly enough Street Racer was one of the games which I spent the most time playing back in the day when I used to visit my Saturn owning friend, it was that, followed by Fighters Megamix most of the time.

Its more like the SNES game than the Mega Drive game, from what I can recall its very different from the PS1 game too (I think it may well be completely different, but don't take my word for it as I've not spent that much time with the Playstation game, and its been a while, even though I own it). My main problem with the Saturn game though, is that it feels like updated SNES mode 7 on steroids and not like Mario Kart 64, when we played Mario Kart 64 for the 1st time we were like "wow" and then swapped over.

sheath
02-04-2012, 12:00 AM
I never saw or heard of Street Racer back in the day. I didn't see it in stores and nothing I read mentioned it beyond a forgettable blurb. Now I am really interested in it though. I think the Megadrive game looks more like a tech demo, the SNES game looks like a Mode 7 racer, but the Saturn game looks like they tried to do something different. The PS1 game seems to have been released over here, so I can play it on my non-modded US PS1 or PS2. Sooner or later I'll be able to give it a shot.

-edit-

Okay, I've got the PS1 game coming disc only. I don't think I want to mess with the PC game, so all I need is the Saturn game.

Thenewguy
02-04-2012, 12:17 AM
I never saw or heard of Street Racer back in the day. I didn't see it in stores and nothing I read mentioned it beyond a forgettable blurb. Now I am really interested in it though. I think the Megadrive game looks more like a tech demo, the SNES game looks like a Mode 7 racer, but the Saturn game looks like they tried to do something different. The PS1 game seems to have been released over here, so I can play it on my non-modded US PS1 or PS2. Sooner or later I'll be able to give it a shot.

Okay, I've got the PS1 game coming disc only. I don't think I want to mess with the PC game, so all I need is the Saturn game.I think the series may have been more popular in Europe, it was never huge or anything, but I remember it being mentioned at the time (both 16-bit and later 32-bit versions).

The game is best played 6-player on a big TV (8 player can be cool but unless you have a huge screen its problematic), its also best that everyone has some familiarity with the courses, as their design is a bit haphazard and can be confusing at first.

Like I said before, I've got a vague voice in my head saying that the two 32-bit versions are different games, or at least have radically different graphics and maybe different courses, but I've only played the PS1 version on two occasions and that was like 5 years ago. I actually just went to check between the two, but unfortunately I think the PS1 game is in storage (I've got the Saturn version here though)

o.pwuaioc
02-04-2012, 02:33 AM
I think that most of the Sega-16 crowd hates Sony.
I saw several guys praising Virtual Console here, in many threads... It's hard to see anyone talking about PSN with good words.

Mega Drive fans should hate Nintendo like the plague and it isn't what I see here.
Sony usually gets more hate here as many guys see it as the responsible for the 32X's fail, Saturn's fail, Dreamcast's fail and Sega's death in the console hardware market.

It's a shame to hate a console because of the competitive practices of its company. I really dislike what Sony has become, but I'd be damned if I didn't think highly of both the PS1 and the PS2. Sega really screwed up in the mid-90s, and you can't blame Sony for that - only Sega (of Japan).

With that said and upfront, I prefer the PS1 to the Saturn, but really mainly because my Saturn knowledge is minimal. Still, the PS1 has twice as many good games (which do not include Jet Moto anything) than the Saturn (my most recent count of games that I have/want for my collection is 56 for the PS1 and 23 for the Saturn).

If only Sega was a bit smarter about giving Genesis owners the required respect while only introducing one new console, the Saturn, and not 2 worthless add-ons with tons of bad games, perhaps more Saturn games could have come over here and kept Sega's name loud enough for the Dreamcast to make a large enough, and trusted enough, splash.

j_factor
02-04-2012, 03:04 AM
I daresay Jet Moto 3 is a pretty good game.

DarkDragon
02-04-2012, 03:28 AM
I haven't played through CTR, but I would be absolutely floored if most of the tracks weren't mirrored, or at least same theme remixes, of other tracks.

Actually no. I remember playing Crash Nitro Kart which is the sequel to CTR and being pissed it only had 13 tracks which was less than what CTR had.

tz101
02-04-2012, 11:05 AM
Despite the naysayers, the entire Jet Moto series rocks, especially if you have other humans to play against. Some good memories come from playing JM1 and JM2 with my son in the mid 90's.

bultje112
02-04-2012, 11:15 AM
http://www.genkivideogames.com/images/gs9204front.jpg

saturn it is!

bultje112
02-04-2012, 11:22 AM
I think that most of the Sega-16 crowd hates Sony.
I saw several guys praising Virtual Console here, in many threads... It's hard to see anyone talking about PSN with good words.

Mega Drive fans should hate Nintendo like the plague and it isn't what I see here.
Sony usually gets more hate here as many guys see it as the responsible for the 32X's fail, Saturn's fail, Dreamcast's fail and Sega's death in the console hardware market.


we aren't just all filled with hate. I like the ps3 and think it's the only console of the current gen worth owning. I above all love sega and don't care too much about anything else. I think nintendo is overrated in my book but don't really hate it I just can't be bothered with it's games and trust me I tried. especially when nintendo went n64 and from 2d to 3d it started to suck. people talk about sonic making bad 3d transition well how about all of miyamoto games? still I really love the snes. I like it almost as much as megadrive I would say. nintendo really screwed sega and in fact all gamers in late 1993 by instead of reinventing themselves and doing new games they stirred up politicians which meant the death of sega cd and megadrive being hurt as well. but that's almost 20 years ago and in all those years so many awesome games have been made by and on sega consoles alone that I couldn't even finish it all in a lifetime probably.

j_factor
02-04-2012, 01:05 PM
Yeah, I don't hate Sony at all. I'll take PSX over any Nintendo system. Though, I don't hate Nintendo either.

bultje112
02-04-2012, 01:30 PM
also to add to that. sony and nintendo screwed and lied quite a bit. n64 specs and psx specs for once. the night trap hearings. lots of bullshit but in the end it's the consumer who falls for these lies. therefore I often say that it's the people that failed sega. if you tell young people today that a console with dvd support (ps2) won over a console with online support (dreamcast) they look you in the eyes as if water is burning.

old man
02-04-2012, 10:00 PM
The Dreamcast was selling good and had good third party support. No I don't think it was the people who failed Sega.

Da_Shocker
02-04-2012, 11:45 PM
I hated Sony with a passion at one point but during this gen MS has done to many things that has somewhat soured me a bit. Plus I don't like to pay for my online services. Sony is free which is great IMO.

I'm pretty sure that Street Racer on the Saturn and Psx are the same games. I do remember about reading about them in EGM and this game had 8 player, 60 FPS. I bought the Saturn import version and I never really could get into that game. Maybe I will try again sometime.

Gogogadget
02-05-2012, 12:22 AM
At the end of the day, Sony, Nintendo etc. are just other companies like Sega, dunno why anyone would hate them.

If people actually full on hate the SNES & Playstation, then they should try to overcome fanboy hate because they are missing out.

Curryman123
02-05-2012, 01:00 AM
Agree with Mr. Smith, Saturn is pretty mediocre TBH. It's only good for shmups, which is why I bought it.

Yeah, I have one, But that doesn't mean I will be biased.

Games such as Nights, Sega Rally, Burning Rangers, Fighters MegaMix, Pazner Dragoon, are all average at best. What's so good about Nights anyways? Best selling game on the Saturn? I almost dozed off while playing it. Where is the action in this game?

I'll take Silent Hill, Resident Evils, Dino crisis, parasite eve and Metal Gear Solid anyday.

gamevet
02-05-2012, 01:32 AM
Agree with Mr. Smith, Saturn is pretty mediocre TBH. It's only good for shmups, which is why I bought it.

Yeah, I have one, But that doesn't mean I will be biased.

Games such as Nights, Sega Rally, Burning Rangers, Fighters MegaMix, Pazner Dragoon, are all average at best. What's so good about Nights anyways? Best selling game on the Saturn? I almost dozed off while playing it. Where is the action in this game?

When did you buy your Saturn?

I could see someone not thinking Burning Rangers is all that great, if they had played it a couple of years after it came out; the graphics are clunky, the controls seem pretty dated and the game is pretty short. Sega Rally, however, is racing ZEN, with the game demanding a perfect synchronization of driving lines, application of breaks and turning; even Sega Rally 2 can't compare. Playing Sega Rally is like playing the perfect shooter, where the music, enemies and ship/player movement all come together to create an experience unlike any other game you've played.

While the games you've listed are all solid, with the exception of Sega Rally, I believe they get listed far too often. The Saturn has a ton of lesser known titles that get overlooked, because they weren't as heavily marketed or published by Sega.


I'll take Silent Hill, Resident Evils, Dino crisis, parasite eve and Metal Gear Solid anyday.

I really didn't think Resident Evil was all that great, until Resident Evil 4 came out. Metal Gear Solid was okay, but I don't think it's anywhere near the top 30 games I'd want to play on the Playstation.

Curryman123
02-05-2012, 03:17 AM
I bought a Japanese SS 3 weeks ago from a local shop. So far my collection looks like this:-
-Darius Gaiden
-Fighters Mega-Mix
-Gun Bird
-Layer Section (Galactic attack)
-Nights...into Dreams
-Panzer Dragoon
-Panzer Dragoon
-Sexy Parodius
-Sega Rally
-Soukyugerentai
-Twinbee Deluxe Pack

I agree with you on Sega Rally; it requires a lot of practice, and I am trying to perform better with each play. Not bad, and hopefully it will grow on me overtime.

bultje112
02-05-2012, 06:32 AM
The Dreamcast was selling good and had good third party support. No I don't think it was the people who failed Sega.

the dreamcast wasn't selling good. software sales were bad and especially third party support sucked. I can't even believe you actually posted that. it did better in every way than saturn yes in the west.

bultje112
02-05-2012, 06:34 AM
I bought a Japanese SS 3 weeks ago from a local shop. So far my collection looks like this:-
-Darius Gaiden
-Fighters Mega-Mix
-Gun Bird
-Layer Section (Galactic attack)
-Nights...into Dreams
-Panzer Dragoon
-Panzer Dragoon
-Sexy Parodius
-Sega Rally
-Soukyugerentai
-Twinbee Deluxe Pack

I agree with you on Sega Rally; it requires a lot of practice, and I am trying to perform better with each play. Not bad, and hopefully it will grow on me overtime.

so you bought a saturn 3 weeks ago and can already confirm it's average based on that list. thank you I won't ever take you serious anymore. and nights was not the best selling saturn game at all.

also nights you don't understand how to play I gues.s it's about high scores and making everlasting links and loops. simply collect the orbs as quickly as possible and after that go berserk on the level just before the timer runs out and get A scores

jerry coeurl
02-05-2012, 06:35 AM
Panzer Dragoon is pretty much an average on-rails shooter, but it has really good music. The sequel is significantly better, and I would urge you to try that one. The gameplay is deeper, it has a lot of replay value and the graphics are much improved. Great music, too, although it's in a different style from the first game.

NiGHTS is a lot of fun for me. It's like Ms. Pac-Man, a game I could replay forever, constantly trying to improve my score. I guess the "flying time attack" style of gameplay doesn't appeal to everyone, but I really like it. I'm one of those people who loves to constantly try to beat my top scores, and NiGHTS is one of those games that I can truly zone out with. The visuals are pretty rough these days, but I love the music. Not only is it fantastic, but it changes depending on the number and happiness of the a-lifes that inhabit the various stages.

Kamahl
02-05-2012, 10:39 AM
I bought a Japanese SS 3 weeks ago from a local shop. So far my collection looks like this:-
-Darius Gaiden
-Fighters Mega-Mix
-Gun Bird
-Layer Section (Galactic attack)
-Nights...into Dreams
-Panzer Dragoon
-Panzer Dragoon
-Sexy Parodius
-Sega Rally
-Soukyugerentai
-Twinbee Deluxe Pack
Missing a ton of great games there. Where's Guardian Heroes? Shining Force 3? Thunderforce 5?

StarMist
02-05-2012, 01:48 PM
Where are Sakura Taisen, Anearth Fantasy Stories, Shoujo Kakumei Utena, and Blue Breaker?

I actually think curryman means it's mediocre apart from the shooters, re which latter he should pick up Shienryu (a mixture of Raiden and Truxton) and try playing Panzer Dragoon 1 w/o using the lift gun (homing).

Also Nights plays much better with the 3D pad--have one?

Curryman123
02-05-2012, 03:23 PM
simply collect the orbs as quickly as possible and after that go berserk on the level just before the timer runs out and get A scores
Tried it, and it wasn't very fun for me. Sorry.

Also, I listed 2 Panzer Dragons. The 2nd Panzer was Panzer Dragoon Zewi.

I Plan on picking up more games for it in the future. Especially looking forward to Guardian Heroes, Salamander Deluxe pack, and Battle Gregga (looks damn promising).

@StarMist

No I don't have the 3D controller, but I will get one on near future.

Also, thanks for the recommendations.

gamevet
02-05-2012, 03:25 PM
I actually think curryman means it's mediocre apart from the shooters,

But that's so untrue. Shining: The Holy Ark is one of the best RPGs of that era, Gun Griffon is one of the better mech games and Iron Storm is one of the best military strategy games. There are a lot of great 3rd party titles on the Saturn like Soviet Strike, Night Warriors, Bomberman, Megaman X4, Enemy Zero and Last Gladiators.

Curryman123
02-05-2012, 03:30 PM
I also heard good things about Shining for holy ark. I will look into it. What's the going rate for this game?

gamevet
02-05-2012, 03:33 PM
I also heard good things about Shining for holy ark. I will look into it. What's the going rate for this game?

About $40-$45, but it's well worth it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00004SW24/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&qid=1328470348&sr=8-1&condition=used

If you don't care about the story, the Japanese version is dirt cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-SHINING-HOLY-ARK-Import-Japan-/120553896830?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item1c11927b7e

Cornholio857
02-05-2012, 03:41 PM
I prefer the Saturn. But since I own both consoles, I get the best of both worlds. The Saturn and PSX sit next to each other on my entertainment stand in peace (At least while the lights are on and I'm present :p).

Thenewguy
02-05-2012, 03:57 PM
I also heard good things about Shining for holy ark. I will look into it.
Its good, the view is 1st person and it feels like more of a computer style RPG in some ways (but with Japanese styling), the dungeons are well designed, clever and inventive, and the music is fantastic, the graphics and environments are pretty disappointing though, with a lot of texture recycling and samey looking villages/boring caves, and the plotline is very much below par for the generation (think Final Fantasy 4 on SNES, but with half the story removed and you'll have a decent idea).

Its certainly not in the top 10 RPGs of that generation for me, and its definitely not worth the amount it sells for, I would aim for something like Vagrant Story on PS1 first if you want a cheap RPG that focuses on creative dungeon design, and more active puzzle orientated gameplay.

The best RPG on Saturn is Panzer Dragoon Saga IMO, thats the only one I could consider putting into a top 10 32-bit RPG list, maybe if Grandia had been localised it might've had a chance.

Black_Tiger
02-05-2012, 04:05 PM
I haven't played any 32-bit RPGs that come close to Tengai Makyou The Apocalypse IV, in terms of overall quality and it's one of the most original games ever made, even by Tengai Makyou standards. You can only experience it on Saturn or PSP.

sheath
02-05-2012, 07:25 PM
Shining the Holy Arc is phenomenal, but I don't want to talk it up too much lest expectations be built up impossibly high. When I think of 32-bit generation RPGs, I think of Holy Arc first, and Panzer Dragoon Saga second.

Also, Gun Griffon absolutely rocks, I have never played a mech game I have liked as much.

Splatterhouse5
02-06-2012, 12:21 AM
This is exactly the problem, and what makes me cringe every time I look at the PS1 library. I have to sift through piles of oozing nastiness to find the solid library on the Playstation. By the time I'm done stripping away the crap I'm not even in the mood to play a game. Your restaurant analogy doesn't work, because I have to look at what I don't like on every shelf in every store with PS1 games, and I frequently only find what I don't want.

I don't get this. Too many choices annoys you? I mean, how hard is it to ask a couple of questions, or read a couple of reviews, to figure out what the games of interest might be - I do that for just about every game I've ever been interested in on any system.

That's like saying that there are too many girls at the party, and that it's a pain in the ass to chat with the 20-30 that you like because the other 70-80 that don't float your boat are there too. Sorry, but it sounds whiney for the sake of having something negative to say about a positive situation. Would fans have liked the Saturn less if it offered more choices? Would fans have wanted 40 more awesome games if it meant simply ignoring 200-300 others?

sheath
02-06-2012, 12:34 AM
I don't get this. Too many choices annoys you? I mean, how hard is it to ask a couple of questions, or read a couple of reviews, to figure out what the games of interest might be - I do that for just about every game I've ever been interested in on any system.

That's like saying that there are too many girls at the party, and that it's a pain in the ass to chat with the 20-30 that you like because the other 70-80 that don't float your boat are there too. Sorry, but it sounds whiney for the sake of having something negative to say about a positive situation. Would fans have liked the Saturn less if it offered more choices? Would fans have wanted 40 more awesome games if it meant simply ignoring 200-300 others?

I don't get the opposite perspective. I really don't. There are two ways that I find games. The first is to play or research games until I find an individual title I want. Secondly, I look at the total library of a platform and try to read reviews until I find something interesting.

When it comes to popular platforms both options becomes a task of sorting, at least, 9 games for every 1 interesting title recommended for remotely relevant reasons. In the case of the PS1, which enjoys the unprecedented "honor" of having nearly double the releases in the US as any previous platform, this means way too much effort to find the games I want to consider playing, much less buying.

Stick me in a room full of Victorias Secret supermodels that look exactly like my wife, and ask me to find my wife. I will be pissed off by the time I find her. Sorry if that seems illogical. Let's rephrase, stick me in a room full of pretty things that I might think I would like but will actually tire of very quickly. I will be tired of looking by the time I find something that actually lasts. This is my problem with the playstations and most modern platforms.

Splatterhouse5
02-06-2012, 01:09 AM
I don't get the opposite perspective. I really don't. There are two ways that I find games. The first is to play or research games until I find an individual title I want. Secondly, I look at the total library of a platform and try to read reviews until I find something interesting.

When it comes to popular platforms both options becomes a task of sorting, at least, 9 games for every 1 interesting title recommended for remotely relevant reasons. In the case of the PS1, which enjoys the unprecedented "honor" of having nearly double the releases in the US as any previous platform, this means way too much effort to find the games I want to consider playing, much less buying.

Stick me in a room full of Victorias Secret supermodels that look exactly like my wife, and ask me to find my wife. I will be pissed off by the time I find her. Sorry if that seems illogical. Let's rephrase, stick me in a room full of pretty things that I might think I would like but will actually tire of very quickly. I will be tired of looking by the time I find something that actually lasts. This is my problem with the playstations and most modern platforms.

Hehe...You make it seem like a ton of work to find something worthwhile on a playstation. If I had never touched a playstation (but was curious about one), the first thing I would do is ask around, look at a handful of top 10-20 lists, and look into the handful of games that get mentioned several times. On sites like this one, hidden gems get thrown around on top 10 lists as a way of informing noobs that a PS isn't simply Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, GTA, and God of War games (all perfectly competent series in their own right).

It's not like you're looking for the love of your life here. It's just a video game. Something awesome for about a week to a month. If the affair ends up lasting more than that, well, then you got more bang for your buck.

kool kitty89
02-06-2012, 03:06 AM
I don't get the opposite perspective. I really don't. There are two ways that I find games. The first is to play or research games until I find an individual title I want. Secondly, I look at the total library of a platform and try to read reviews until I find something interesting.

When it comes to popular platforms both options becomes a task of sorting, at least, 9 games for every 1 interesting title recommended for remotely relevant reasons. In the case of the PS1, which enjoys the unprecedented "honor" of having nearly double the releases in the US as any previous platform, this means way too much effort to find the games I want to consider playing, much less buying.

Stick me in a room full of Victorias Secret supermodels that look exactly like my wife, and ask me to find my wife. I will be pissed off by the time I find her. Sorry if that seems illogical. Let's rephrase, stick me in a room full of pretty things that I might think I would like but will actually tire of very quickly. I will be tired of looking by the time I find something that actually lasts. This is my problem with the playstations and most modern platforms.

Hehe...You make it seem like a ton of work to find something worthwhile on a playstation. If I had never touched a playstation (but was curious about one), the first thing I would do is ask around, look at a handful of top 10-20 lists, and look into the handful of games that get mentioned several times. On sites like this one, hidden gems get thrown around on top 10 lists as a way of informing noobs that a PS isn't simply Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, GTA, and God of War games (all perfectly competent series in their own right).

It's not like you're looking for the love of your life here. It's just a video game. Something awesome for about a week to a month. If the affair ends up lasting more than that, well, then you got more bang for your buck.

Yes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a large library, especially with the modern resources the Internet affords (making looking things up fast/simple).
The number of games available on PC (especially including obscure ones) is extremely daunting in that context, but it doesn't stop it from being one of my favorite platforms ever. (and definitely my #1 favorite for single-player games)

That said, the ways I most often find games are:
-Freind/family memeber owns the game and/or recommends it (this may include playing the game as a friend's house and liking it)
-I see the game in action at a store display (this, along with "played it with friends" would be the biggest selling points for me as a kid -though still significant today)
-I browse the selection of games at a game store and see what jumps out at me, check closer (get an idea of the gameplay style/genre/etc -and possibly developer/publisher) and either buy/rent it right off the bat (especially if its cheap) or make a note of it and look it up more (or ask more about it) before deciding
-sequel/spin-off of a series I like (or a game from a publisher/developer I tend to like in a genre I usually enjoy)
-find it by chance while browsing the web (including in form discussions or YT videos/reviews)
-looking up lists of games by genre/type on various platforms
-features in Gaming magazines
-TV/print advertising
-looking up top best rated/favorites lists

These are more or less in order of significance for my personal decision making . . . and "by chance" discoveries (including several different cases in the above list) are probably the most common by far for me: be it at a friend's house, in a store display, at a thrift store (found several PC games that way just today), YT reviews/etc, forums, etc, etc.

The one other area not met by the above for the way I/my family ended up with many of the game we had (and grew up with) would be: parents (namely my dad) buying games without any explicit input from me or my brother. (be it games for my dad specifically, games intended for several members of the family, or games he had a good idea that I -or my brother- would like).
And how he selected games, I'm not positive, though I think browsing shelves in the stores was often the case too (though I'm sure there's times when he explicitly had a game in mind -from a friend's recommendation, etc- or had a specific brand/series that he/we already knew we liked)

bultje112
02-06-2012, 06:06 AM
I also heard good things about Shining for holy ark. I will look into it. What's the going rate for this game?

that's a really good game. the first person view with sprite graphics looks awesome and still looks great today. it's a sequel to shining in the darknes sbut a lot better


Its good, the view is 1st person and it feels like more of a computer style RPG in some ways (but with Japanese styling), the dungeons are well designed, clever and inventive, and the music is fantastic, the graphics and environments are pretty disappointing though, with a lot of texture recycling and samey looking villages/boring caves, and the plotline is very much below par for the generation (think Final Fantasy 4 on SNES, but with half the story removed and you'll have a decent idea).

Its certainly not in the top 10 RPGs of that generation for me, and its definitely not worth the amount it sells for, I would aim for something like Vagrant Story on PS1 first if you want a cheap RPG that focuses on creative dungeon design, and more active puzzle orientated gameplay.

The best RPG on Saturn is Panzer Dragoon Saga IMO, thats the only one I could consider putting into a top 10 32-bit RPG list, maybe if Grandia had been localised it might've had a chance.

shining force 3 is better than nearly any other rpg too of that generation. all 3 games are in fact. they got even better with each scenario. panzer dragoon saga is the best rpg maybe of all time other than shenmue (2) if you consider that an rpg which I do.

Black_Tiger
02-06-2012, 09:19 AM
shining force 3 is better than nearly any other rpg too of that generation. all 3 games are in fact. they got even better with each scenario. panzer dragoon saga is the best rpg maybe of all time other than shenmue (2) if you consider that an rpg which I do.

Shining Force III may be about as good as anything for gameplay, fun and replay value, but it's not much of a RPG. Even thought they're not the best versions around, I'd still rather play Ys I & II for Saturn than most 32-bit RPG'ish games. The Saturn has great RPG and RPG-like games, but people who can't play them in Japanese discount them as though they don't exist. If you can't enjoy them, it doesn't mean that they don't exist and aren't a contributing factor to an excellent library. I can't get into most sports, racing, street fighting, rhythm, strategy, etc games. But I don't pretend that they don't exist or that they shouldn't matter to anyone.

sheath
02-06-2012, 09:34 AM
Hehe...You make it seem like a ton of work to find something worthwhile on a playstation. If I had never touched a playstation (but was curious about one), the first thing I would do is ask around, look at a handful of top 10-20 lists, and look into the handful of games that get mentioned several times. On sites like this one, hidden gems get thrown around on top 10 lists as a way of informing noobs that a PS isn't simply Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, GTA, and God of War games (all perfectly competent series in their own right).

It's not like you're looking for the love of your life here. It's just a video game. Something awesome for about a week to a month. If the affair ends up lasting more than that, well, then you got more bang for your buck.

Well, running with the room full of girls analogy, the other problem I have with the PS1, and most popular platforms, is that the so called AAA titles that everybody loves just don't do it for me. I finished Final Fantasy VII and Metal Gear Solid and cannot stand either game now. When I got a PS1 in 1997 everybody told me to pick up Blood Omen Legacy of Kain, but my gosh the load times and gameplay just killed it for me.

I have said elsewhere in these forums that when my college roommate had a Playstation I played all of his games and picked up some of my own. I enjoyed Bushido Blade, Tenchu, and a few others. Colony Wars was fun to play through once, but the gameplay was just to simple (flying back and forth while firing at capital ships gets old). I also have an odd obsession with the first year games, whenever I see one I tend to pick it up. Really, going chronologically and stopping around 1999 is the only way I have been able to parse the PS1 library.

Walking into a store that has PS1 games and hoping to find something is a chore to say the least. The same goes for the Genesis, SNES, Playstation 2, Wii and Xbox 360. The odds are ten to one against finding anything worth looking into, much less anything I have actually heard about and actually want, which would be more 100:1.

Zoltor
02-06-2012, 11:02 PM
Um guys, the playstation easily wins, It's not even a question of Quality Vs Quantity, the PS has both quality, and quantity.

Furthermore, the hand full of ports that are better on the Saturn dont matter, have you've seen the size of the PS Library lol, needless to say, It's a nonissue.

The Saturn has awesome games don't get me wrong, but It's silly to vote for it when It's up against the PS which has :tonage of awesome games.

sheath
02-06-2012, 11:10 PM
Um, fella, check the original post, we're talking about personal preference. I will drive a 2000 model Honda Prelude for the rest of my life due to personal preference. Similarly, the Saturn library will demand more of my attention than the PS1 library, as it has since the mid 90s, due to personal preference. Just don't think it is all about brand or company or anything like that, it's about the games. The Saturn offers something measurable and unique that the PS1 only has a smattering of.

Also, is this the thread where HD-DVD came up? I can't find it, so I will post this here. BluRay didn't "win", that battle was fought based on which movie publishers would sell out to which format first. The end came when Sony bought out Warner, plain and simple. Otherwise we would likely still be seeing all the same movies on two formats, and most movie players would support both like mine does.

kool kitty89
02-06-2012, 11:15 PM
Well, running with the room full of girls analogy, the other problem I have with the PS1, and most popular platforms, is that the so called AAA titles that everybody loves just don't do it for me. I finished Final Fantasy VII and Metal Gear Solid and cannot stand either game now. When I got a PS1 in 1997 everybody told me to pick up Blood Omen Legacy of Kain, but my gosh the load times and gameplay just killed it for me.
I've never let load times ruin a game for me . . . they certainly don't benefit the experience, but I've lived with them since I was a little kid playing PC games and have tolerated some VERY long load times. (I mean several minutes long -which was often the case for running Il2 Sturmovik 1946 on my old Athlon XP machine)

As for AAA games . . . I understand that too, but simply take it in stride. (both in terms of hot new releases and for classics) I definitely have some different tastes than you, but I can think of several instances where I don't really care for acclaimed games. (especially some 2D platformers)

However, I don't consider those games any less great or not AAA simply because I don't like them . . . it's similar to not liking a very well respected/critically(and/or publically) acclaimed book or film. (ie personal tastes vary, and there's always the exceptions to the norm -and, in my case, my preferences for many games definitely fall within the norm -especially for the more recent generations- but there's several genres I really like that are no longer popular and some that are very popular that I don't care for as much -and, again, the same for several older generations too, especially some very popular mainstream games/genres in the late 80s and early 90s)

Not agreeing personally of a certain game/book/film/etc's greatness most definitely does not mean that the established perception (or the rest of the world for that matter) is wrong. (there's certainly some cases of inflation -in part due to more successful marketing and such, but there's also a huge degree of the majority vs minority preferences and opinions)
Same thing for a quirky "fun" movie or book you love, that's seen as mediocre or poor.


I have said elsewhere in these forums that when my college roommate had a Playstation I played all of his games and picked up some of my own. I enjoyed Bushido Blade, Tenchu, and a few others. Colony Wars was fun to play through once, but the gameplay was just to simple (flying back and forth while firing at capital ships gets old). I also have an odd obsession with the first year games, whenever I see one I tend to pick it up. Really, going chronologically and stopping around 1999 is the only way I have been able to parse the PS1 library.
The PSX also had some much more complex space shooters/sims too though, including 2 of the best Wing Commander games (III and IV), and was actually the only console to get both of those. (the 3DO only got III and the Saturn and N64 got neither)

The PSX is easily the best home console of that period for space sims/shooters, and only PCs were better in that regard. (it was also second best to the PC for several other genres too, which is a big part of why it reached #1 for my list in the "only 1 console" thread -in addition to the overall variety of games on the system, though again, N64 would win for some certain areas like multiplayer IMO -which it also had over PC too . . . unless you include network play)


Walking into a store that has PS1 games and hoping to find something is a chore to say the least. The same goes for the Genesis, SNES, Playstation 2, Wii and Xbox 360. The odds are ten to one against finding anything worth looking into, much less anything I have actually heard about and actually want, which would be more 100:1.
I never ever had this problem personally . . . though part of it is my general flexibility for finding fun in games: I certainly have my preferences, but I still enjoy an extremely wide range of games and genres. In fact, one of the biggest limiting factors for me is difficulty (namely certain genres/games that I'm inherently weak at but still like to play), and the flexible difficulty options in many newer games opens that up even more (whereas previously, the only workaround was using cheats -if that), while that same flexibility allows me to ramp up difficulty of games I'm especially good at.


On top of that, there's the vast number of older games (be it fairly recent or over a decade old) that are still "new" to me (in that I haven't played them or haven't played them much -or just never beaten them), so the "holes" in the current gen market (from my PoV) are filled by that too. (I'd be a lot more frustrated if I didn't have a tolerance -let alone preference/curiosity- for older/more technically primitive games)

Iron Lizard
02-06-2012, 11:23 PM
I have a hell of a time finding good PS1 games in the wild. Like Sheath says, its like 100:1 chance. We have three places around here that have PS1 games. There are tons of games but good lord most them are just garbage. I look through them all the time. Its painful. I do find some gems know and then but its discouraging.

sheath
02-06-2012, 11:36 PM
That is the biggest problem, put as many PS1 games as people will trade in on a wall and most of them are complete junk. The same goes for the Genesis, SNES, PS2, or 360. People buy crap and they trade it back even faster.

My other problem is that I know all or most of the history of almost any game I might find that has any merit in my sight. So, even though one particular game I happen to find is "good", I have to figure whether it is worth the asking price when I have X many other games that are virtually the same or better. Adding in commonly repeated nonsense that I see everyday online for AAA titles really doesn't make their merit seem any higher to me.

Having the option of playing games on PC or in emulation is something I generally try to ignore in console game purchases. I hate configuring games and screwing with settings just to get to gameplay.

Zoltor
02-07-2012, 12:15 AM
That is the biggest problem, put as many PS1 games as people will trade in on a wall and most of them are complete junk. The same goes for the Genesis, SNES, PS2, or 360. People buy crap and they trade it back even faster.

My other problem is that I know all or most of the history of almost any game I might find that has any merit in my sight. So, even though one particular game I happen to find is "good", I have to figure whether it is worth the asking price when I have X many other games that are virtually the same or better. Adding in commonly repeated nonsense that I see everyday online for AAA titles really doesn't make their merit seem any higher to me.

Having the option of playing games on PC or in emulation is something I generally try to ignore in console game purchases. I hate configuring games and screwing with settings just to get to gameplay.

I really don't see that as a viable complaint, as that just goes to show you how great the good games in the library actually are(people aren't gonna trade in godly/highly desireable games for chunk change).

If you're able to post in a online forum, I'm sure you can make your way to ebay, which is where you can find the games(you're not just limited to people living within 5-10 miles, trading in/selling their games to that specific store, not to mention there are very few people dumb enough to do so).

Most games can be had pretty cheap(providing you try to ignore BIN only sales, which are almost always double the price It's worth or atleast at the very top dollar amount), even the high quality games.

StarMist
02-07-2012, 12:24 AM
sheath, it's tough not to read your moans as demonstrative that you're slipping from gaming. There are many excellent action games on Playstation and even many Saturn fans to recommend you them. There are even a few I'd only recommend by way of PM as I want a chance to still buy them for myself. And you needn't emulate if you don't wish to buy, you can chip your system (PS or PS2) for $25 or buy a soft mod on a card for the PS2.

Zoltor
02-07-2012, 12:29 AM
sheath, it's tough not to read your moans as demonstrative that you're slipping from gaming. There are many excellent action games on Playstation and even many Saturn fans to recommend you them. There are even a few I'd only recommend by way of PM as I want a chance to still buy them for myself. And you needn't emulate if you don't wish to buy, you can chip your system (PS or PS2) for $25 or buy a soft mod on a card for the PS2.

Yea I'm not too fond of him emulating them either, and yea you could chip it, and in any case, SNES's are cheap. If you don't like the color lol(which I think is fine), you could always just paint the case. as for PS,PS2, exc, yea modding them would be best.

Bones Justice
02-09-2012, 02:33 PM
I prefer the Saturn. Some of my all-time favorite games are Virtual On and Sega Rally. Virtual On is even better when played between two Saturns (you can even play remotely by modem). Sega Rally is great solo or in versus mode, time lag races can go for hours against a good opponent (also playable by modem). Saturn also has all of the best of Capcom's fighters, the Alpha series, Darkstalkers, X-Men COTA, and especially the Versus series. I also think Saturn has the best 3D fighters, Virtua Fighter 2, Last Bronx, and Fighting Vipers (my favorite).

Saturn also has the best gamepads for fighting games and the 3D pad is the best analog control pad of the era, much better for driving games than either PSX or N64 analog controllers. The original poster didn't specify whether it's cheating to use Saturn controllers on PSX (which I have) so I didn't count that. Each system should get credit for it's strengths.

Saturn has the best basketball, soccer, and baseball games, too. Unfortunately, there isn't an outstanding football game for either system, Madden 98 or Madden 99 are good but it wasn't until the NFL 2K series came out that there was a real challenge to the Genesis football era.

The games like Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Destruction Derby, and Wipeout are a wash to me. I played them on Saturn but I probably would have enjoyed them the same on PSX. Either way, one of each was enough for me. Both systems have other games that I liked, like Space Hulk, so again I could have chose either. I always read that PSX has better graphics but I can think of plenty of Saturn versions that are better like X-Men vs Street Fighter or Dead or Alive. Usually, it doesn't matter enough to buy two game systems.

I do think the PSX has some great games. I like link-up games and early on, PSX had several that I really liked like F1 or Armored Core. I can't believe Sony discontinued it. Saturn only has a few link-up games by comparison, though Gun Griffon II and Daytona CCE are great and nothing on PSX even rivals Virtual On. I also liked a lot of PSX racing games like V-Rally, TOCA 1 & 2, and Jarrett & Labonte Stock Car Racing (which is actually TOCA 3).

Both systems have some great unique titles but none that make me prefer one system over the other, like X-Com: UFO Defense on PSX or Tactics Formula on Saturn.

Not that it matters to me, but the Saturn also has a much better CD player with all the extra effects. My S.O. loved it though, she played around with it for hours when I first got a Saturn. Also no longer matters but Saturn has a web browser, which at the time was huge!

sheath
02-09-2012, 04:03 PM
It is definite that if I am not slipping out of being a gamer I just don't have the same passion for gaming that I used to have. The good thing is I don't shop in stores, so I just buy Playstation games online when I find out about one I might like. With my cabinet filled with consoles all hooked up, I just see a bunch of games on a shelf, rather than a bunch of antagonistic platforms. That also has the down side of too many choices, making it difficult to stick to just one game for long enough to finish it.

As for my comment on the wall-o-crap that popular platforms invariably create, I have always felt that way. Since the Genesis got popular, or actually since the NES days I have always grown tired of finding gems in popular console libraries. I have never considered a popular platform better because it has a larger library because that library is always padded with sequels and licensed games that have less value on their own than unique exclusives do. Conversely, this also does not make the popular platform worse than a more niche one, but I do find "filler" games a detriment to the library over all.

Zz Badnusty
02-10-2012, 01:45 PM
shining force 3 is better than nearly any other rpg too of that generation. all 3 games are in fact. they got even better with each scenario. panzer dragoon saga is the best rpg maybe of all time other than shenmue (2) if you consider that an rpg which I do.

Saiyuki Journey West on Playstation is basically the exact same game as Shining Force III except a lot smoother, less sluggish, and more enjoyable.

Black_Tiger
02-10-2012, 03:16 PM
Saiyuki Journey West on Playstation is basically the exact same game as Shining Force III except a lot smoother, less sluggish, and more enjoyable.

Lol, SJW is the exact same as SFIII as much as Tazmania is the exact same as Sonic the Hedgehog. :p I admit that I haven't played SJW, but it looks exactly like yet another Tactics Ogre clone. All the similarities to SFIII (in gameplay videos) look noticeably sluggish in comparison, not the other way around. Plus, like every Tactics clone I've seen, there's 90% less playfield than SFIII and I'm guessing no battle cinemas.

On paper, Feda should be just like Shining aForce, but the experience of the end result isn't even close.

Kamahl
02-10-2012, 03:18 PM
Lol, SJW is the exact same as SFIII as much as Tazmania is the exact same as Sonic the Hedgehog. :p I admit that I haven't played SJW, but it looks exactly like yet another Tactics Ogre clone. All the similarities to SFIII (in gameplay videos) look noticeably sluggish in comparison, not the other way around. Plus, like every Tactics clone I've seen, there's 90% less playfield than SFIII and I'm guessing no battle cinemas.
Got the exact same impression.

Zoltor
02-10-2012, 06:00 PM
Lol, SJW is the exact same as SFIII as much as Tazmania is the exact same as Sonic the Hedgehog. :p I admit that I haven't played SJW, but it looks exactly like yet another Tactics Ogre clone. All the similarities to SFIII (in gameplay videos) look noticeably sluggish in comparison, not the other way around. Plus, like every Tactics clone I've seen, there's 90% less playfield than SFIII and I'm guessing no battle cinemas.

On paper, Feda should be just like Shining aForce, but the experience of the end result isn't even close.

Well just like Feda, SF was derived from the Fire Emblem series, so all they are, are Fire Emblem games at the core, with there being twists to the other aspects to make them seem different.

However I don't see how anyone can call a SJW a SF clone, It's completely different as It's "roughly" based off the Tactics Ogre format, so yea someone is smoking some potent grass.

Zz Badnusty
02-10-2012, 09:17 PM
Well I certainly enjoyed Saiyuki a lot more than Shining Force III. And I've played SFIII, SF CD (thoroughly and repeatedly), SF Resurection Dark Dragon, and SF Sword of Hiyja or whatever on Game Gear. Whatever differences there are between the mechanics of Saiyuki and SFIII are for the better in favor of Saiyuki Journey West.
I was never a fan of the Ogre Battle games, and have never played Tactics Ogre. So excuse my ignorance toward the subtleties of the SRPG genre, the bottom line is I played through SFIII and was often impatient and bored with the battles, then I played through Saiyuki maybe 6 months later and though to myself "holy crap Shining Force III is over rated."

Not saying SFIII isn't a great game, I was certainly addicted to it, but at times it felt like a chore to play.


Lol, SJW is the exact same as SFIII as much as Tazmania is the exact same as Sonic the Hedgehog. :p I admit that I haven't played SJW

Huh? That's a dumb and and not even close to accurate analogy.
Seems like you are convinced you're going to like SFIII above all else no matter what.

StarMist
02-10-2012, 10:41 PM
Zz Badnusty, the distinction you've missed is that Saiyuki and most 32 bit (and onwards) SRPGs incorporate a 3D landscape, even if that just makes the field like a jumble of stairs. This is what makes games like Shining Force, Feda (Remake), and the Fire Emblems refreshing whether one has to go back a generation to find them. Ogre Battle is sui generis, a sort of real time map affair resembling an American football scrimmage that goes into cool looking tarot card based traditional style battles which however aren't quite cool enough to make up for the general tedium involved (had it got a proper 32 bit remake of the battle maps it would've been close). Tactics Ogre is like Shining Force plus the stairs effect. Others like Vandal Hearts have a sort of sham real time aspect where an enemy will move at the same time one of your characters moves, complicating the whole positioning process which for various reasons is overly important in those games.

Zz Badnusty
02-10-2012, 11:01 PM
So then how is Saiyuki not like Shining Force III?!
(And I have no clue as to how you get the idea that I missed the distinction that they incorporate 3D playfields)

Zoltor
02-10-2012, 11:56 PM
Starmist personally I don't like all these remakes(on top of that they look ugly, who gives a crap that they're more graphically enhanced, not to mention then add handholding features that make it even worse), and Ogre Battle is awesome, so I don't know WTF you are talking about, seriously if battles are taking 3 hours, you're doing something very wrong. Furthermore It's not just one large battle after another, you can expore the stages afterwords for buried treasure to cool down, and even perhaps recruit random monster if you so choose as well.

sheath
02-11-2012, 12:08 AM
I only lost interest in Ogre Battle because there was so much town searching where I had no idea what to do. Otherwise I'd easily put it above Dark Wizard, but Dark Wizard held my interest more.

StarMist
02-11-2012, 12:22 AM
@ Zz = perhaps it's just my not having been able to stand SFIII but from what I saw its battlefields were 2D, ie no elevation involved. I assumed you missed that distinction because it's very important, it makes a large difference in battle complexity due to affecting movement, attack range, and dmg.

@ Zoltor = I never said the battles take 3 hours. That was jerrycouerl, possibly in another thread. I find them a bit tedious; they would be less so were they broken with standard RPG towns the way Shining Force is (other than the shitty GG/CD versions). I'm aware of the treasure searching and monster recruiting--which latter I'd say is a tie for the highlight with the in battle art style. I also normally dislike remakes for the reasons you gave except that I dislike the SNES palette to begin with.

Zz Badnusty
02-11-2012, 12:22 AM
@ Zz = perhaps it's just my not having been able to stand SFIII but from what I saw its battlefields were 2D, ie no elevation involved. I assumed you missed that distinction because it's very important, it makes a large difference in battle complexity due to affecting movement, attack range, and dmg.

Right. Exactly. Saiyuki makes use of the 3D playfields whereas Shining Force III just fakes it. Exactly like you say, movement, attack range, and damage are all effected by elevation in Saiyuki. From what I recall Shining Force III doesn't get nearly as complex in that regard.

I'm honestly at a loss. Besides the above mentioned advantage and Saiyuki not having the trademark Shining Force battle animations; a plus in Saiyuki's favor imo, How is Saiyuki Journey West not like Shining Force III? The strategy, ie planning attacks, moving characters, paying attention to attributes, item inventory, use of available magic, finding hiden items on the playfields, etc, are all very similar between the two games. It is just my experience that Saiyuki does it better, with one exception being that SFIII has more variety of BGM

Zoltor
02-11-2012, 12:23 AM
I only lost interest in Ogre Battle because there was so much town searching where I had no idea what to do. Otherwise I'd easily put it above Dark Wizard, but Dark Wizard held my interest more.

They are technically different genres(as Dark Wizard is more of a traditional tactic game, then a tactic/RPG), but yea Dark Wizard is great, easily one of the best games on the SCD.

To Starmist: Oh ok my bad, I must of jumbled both of you guys posts together(I should've rechecked to see if they were posted by the same people). I think the SNES pallet is fine personally, and the art in general is great.

StarMist
02-11-2012, 12:38 AM
I'm honestly at a loss. Besides Saiyuki not having the trademark Shining Force battle animations; a plus in Saiyuki's favor imo, How is Saiyuki Journey West not like Shining Force III?
Has SFIII any battlefields that incorporate such differences in elevation?
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/9/199179/vandalht_screen002.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/e3_2001/vg/psx/saiyuki/saiyuki_screen005.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/ps/hoshigami/hoshigami_screen004.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/ps/hoshigami/hoshigami_screen005.jpg
http://ui20.gamefaqs.com/1331/gfs_50545_2_15_mid.jpg

I enjoyed the first game's attack scenes; the 2D others' were poorer due to a bit of brightening and inferior character design; III's were painfully polygonal, the ocular equivalent of stepping on a chewed dogbone.

Zz Badnusty
02-11-2012, 12:41 AM
However I don't see how anyone can call a SJW a SF clone, It's completely different as It's "roughly" based off the Tactics Ogre format

What does this mean, can you elaborate? What makes SJW of the "Tactics Ogre format"?

sheath
02-11-2012, 12:45 AM
They are technically different genres(as Dark Wizard is more of a traditional tactic game, then a tactic/RPG), but yea Dark Wizard is great, easily one of the best games on the SCD.


I don't understand the distinction. Every character gained experience and leveled up in Dark Wizard, and every General decision affected how much each individual character could improve. I just thought that Ogre Battle offered too many obscure decisions without leading into them or offering any evidence about what the best option was. Otherwise I would consider Dark Wizard and Ogre Battle in the exact same genre.

Zoltor
02-11-2012, 12:45 AM
It uses the basic format of that style of the Tactic/RPG genre, and I said "roughly" as It's not a carbon copy with an added aspect like Shining force is to Fire Emblem

StarMist
02-11-2012, 12:52 AM
Saiyuki is of the Tactics Ogre format in that it belongs to 3D tactics games whereas SF is a 2D tactics game. On older systems the 3D tactics games were inevitably isometric.

Zz Badnusty
02-11-2012, 12:53 AM
The two games (SJW and SFIII) play exactly the same, except Saiyuki makes the elevation have a greater effect on battles.

Zoltor
02-11-2012, 12:57 AM
Just because levels handles the char upgrade system, doesn't make it a tactic/RPG. Almost every traditional tactic game has char/army development of some kind, there's just a very few traditional tactic games that have opted to adopt the lv system to handle it.

It lacks alot of aspects that are found in most Tactic/RPGs. If it weren't such a rare format for a game, it would have It's own genre, but there's only like a few games in this format, so it must be counted as the genre It's most like, which It's little more then a traditional Tactic game, with a lv system slapped on.

To Zz Badnusty: So are you saying SF 3 is not a real SF game at all(haven't played SF 3, so I'm not 100% sure, but none of the other SF games are anything even remotely close to SJW)?

Zz Badnusty
02-11-2012, 01:27 AM
Oh man, I give up.
Here is as simple as I can say it: I learned the Shining Force style with SF CD. The following SF games I played were all generally the exact same. You move your characters along a squared grid. The characters have your basic RPG attributes and I learn what character is effective in what position and against what enemy., etc.
I moved right from SFIII to SJW, and I played SJW nearly exactly the same as I played SFIII.
Furthermore, the little missions or objectives within a battle stage are generally the exact same, like rescuing a captive from enemies, or getting through or past an obstacle within a certain number of turns, etc. The two games are played with the exact same strategy and execution.

If I'm mistaken I'll gladly thank whoever clarifies this for me. But so far I have two people who haven't played the games in question trying to tell me I'm wrong when I played them both to completion within the same year.

segaddict
02-11-2012, 01:34 AM
PSX has the far superior games. Quality AND quantity. The US Saturn library is disappointing, but the imports are nice. Saturn wins in the controller department only.

/thread

Sega system vs non-sega system on a Sega website = fail

Zz Badnusty
02-11-2012, 01:45 AM
PSX has the far superior games. Quality AND quantity. The US Saturn library is disappointing, but the imports are nice. Saturn wins in the controller department only.

/thread

Sega system vs non-sega system on a Sega website = fail

The superiority of either system's games is highly debatable as illustrated by a number of recent threads here. Clearly there are many active forum members here who are very open or even favor non-Sega systems, so your "fail" comment is unwarranted.

segaddict
02-11-2012, 01:51 AM
Anything is debatable. IMO it's not even a contest. Saturn is a good solid system, but nothing more. It can't compare to the PSX. PS had soooo many more classic games. Just my opinion. (fact) ;)

sheath
02-11-2012, 10:19 AM
sheath, it's tough not to read your moans as demonstrative that you're slipping from gaming. There are many excellent action games on Playstation and even many Saturn fans to recommend you them. There are even a few I'd only recommend by way of PM as I want a chance to still buy them for myself. And you needn't emulate if you don't wish to buy, you can chip your system (PS or PS2) for $25 or buy a soft mod on a card for the PS2.

By the way, will a soft mod memory card let me play import PS1 games on a PS2?

Kamahl
02-11-2012, 11:58 AM
Ok I played the damn game, it's nothing like Shining Force 3. It's almost a carbon copy of Tactics Ogre when it comes to battle mechanics. If you think that Tactics Ogre and Shining Force are anything similar (other than being on the same freaking genre) you need a slap.

EDIT: Not saying it's better or worse, just that it's like saying Samurai Showdown is just Street Fighter 2 with 1 more mechanic... Come on...


Anything is debatable. IMO it's not even a contest. Saturn is a good solid system, but nothing more. It can't compare to the PSX. PS had soooo many more classic games. Just my opinion. (fact) ;)
If those games are less fun to me than games available on the Saturn, I don't care how many of them there are.
This isn't a "which is better poll", it's a "which do you prefer" poll.

Zz Badnusty
02-11-2012, 12:40 PM
Ok I played the damn game, it's nothing like Shining Force 3. It's almost a carbon copy of Tactics Ogre when it comes to battle mechanics. If you think that Tactics Ogre and Shining Force are anything similar (other than being on the same freaking genre) you need a slap.

EDIT: Not saying it's better or worse, just that it's like saying Samurai Showdown is just Street Fighter 2 with 1 more mechanic... Come on...

As I've stated, I've never played Tactics Ogre. You can tell me they are the same, but I'm still hoping to hear an explanation, other than I "need a slap"
Again, I played SJW maybe 6 months after playing through SFIII, and they played exactly the same.

Kamahl
02-11-2012, 01:32 PM
Again, I played SJW maybe 6 months after playing through SFIII, and they played exactly the same.
Your definition of "the same" seems to be different from everyone elses.
Fire Emblem, Langrisser, Shining Force, Tactics Ogre, all of these series have their own take on the Strategy RPG genre. They are similar (since they are in the same genre), but they are certainly not the same.
SJW follows the Tactics Ogre style of gameplay, with some SF elements. That's not "exactly the same" as either.

Kogen
02-11-2012, 01:46 PM
...

Do not make a homeless cripple fight Mike Tyson. Yes, I know it is hilarious, but have some decency. Leave the Play Station (or 'PSX' as the poor thing thinks it is called) alone.

OK? :/

cowboyscowboys
02-11-2012, 02:15 PM
Anything is debatable. IMO it's not even a contest. Saturn is a good solid system, but nothing more. It can't compare to the PSX. PS had soooo many more classic games. Just my opinion. (fact) ;)

Best post in the entire thread

gamevet
02-11-2012, 02:32 PM
Anything is debatable. IMO it's not even a contest. Saturn is a good solid system, but nothing more. It can't compare to the PSX. PS had soooo many more classic games. Just my opinion. (fact) ;)


I've owned both systems dating back to their launch dates. I go back to the Saturn far more often than the Playstation, because the games on that system are some of my favorites.

StarMist
02-11-2012, 02:55 PM
By the way, will a soft mod memory card let me play import PS1 games on a PS2?Yes, it will even let you play burnt PS games on PS2. The import thing is part of why I need it since I have a modded PS which is blocked by certain late games that can identify the modchip.


As I've stated, I've never played Tactics Ogre. You can tell me they are the same, but I'm still hoping to hear an explanation, other than I "need a slap"
Again, I played SJW maybe 6 months after playing through SFIII, and they played exactly the same.
The elevation is a large difference for the reasons I've already stated. It's a whole extra layer of attention required. Shining Force, Sakura Taisen, Feda, and other no-fuss SRPGs play very quickly and forgivingly which makes them more fun to those who don't want to double think every possible move and simplistic to those who do. Nothing in SF alters the amount of dmg given/received but character levels/equipment and infrequent magic; elevation thus makes it possible for an inferior fighter to contend with a superior by taking higher ground (though presumably some weapons will not benefit by this for being too short, such as daggers) whilst also greatly increasing the realism of archers, ie getting them to high ground for safety and added distance.
This is also what Tactics Ogre embellishes upon earlier flat games like Feda, Venus Wars, what have you.

sheath
02-11-2012, 03:37 PM
Yes, it will even let you play burnt PS games on PS2. The import thing is part of why I need it since I have a modded PS which is blocked by certain late games that can identify the modchip.


The elevation is a large difference for the reasons I've already stated. It's a whole extra layer of attention required. Shining Force, Sakura Taisen, Feda, and other no-fuss SRPGs play very quickly and forgivingly which makes them more fun to those who don't want to double think every possible move and simplistic to those who do. Nothing in SF alters the amount of dmg given/received but character levels/equipment and infrequent magic; elevation thus makes it possible for an inferior fighter to contend with a superior by taking higher ground (though presumably some weapons will not benefit by this for being too short, such as daggers) whilst also greatly increasing the realism of archers, ie getting them to high ground for safety and added distance.
This is also what Tactics Ogre embellishes upon earlier flat games like Feda, Venus Wars, what have you.

Sweet, thanks for the link. I will have to pick one up at some point. And yeah, I was going to mention that Shining Force III's elevation tactics, and group tactics, definitely makes the game complex. I have no idea whether this feature is in the other titles being "discussed".

Speaking of which, if the PS1 is so obviously superior why does it need devoted fans to insist that it is? Honestly, it could have 10,000 more games than the Saturn has and I would still enjoy playing Saturn games. Am I wrong in picking up that most PS1 fans would rather the Saturn not exist, or be completely ignored? It certainly seems that way.

Kogen
02-11-2012, 04:16 PM
Wii is the best console, has the most games this gen. PSuX and Saturd dun compare.

StarMist
02-11-2012, 04:17 PM
Anything is debatable. IMO it's not even a contest. Saturn is a good solid system, but nothing more. It can't compare to the PSX. PS had soooo many more classic games. Just my opinion. (fact) ;)


Best post in the entire thread
You do know he just got a Saturn? Look at the day of the thread start here:
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?19564-SEGA-Saturn-Questions/page3

Perhaps we should wait till he's better informed.
And I know very well what the PS has on it, but the two consoles are surprisingly close--this isn't the PS vs N64 thread. >>>

speaking of which how about we revive this thread? :
32/64 bit era: PS, Saturn or N64? (http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?672-32-64-bit-era-PS-Saturn-or-N64/page13)

Black_Tiger
02-11-2012, 04:45 PM
Wii is the best console, has the most games this gen. PSuX and Saturd dun compare.

Best post in the entire thread

segaddict
02-11-2012, 07:09 PM
Wii is the best console, has the most games this gen. PSuX and Saturd dun compare.

worst post in the entire thread


You do know he just got a Saturn? Look at the day of the thread start here:
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?19564-SEGA-Saturn-Questions/page3

Perhaps we should wait till he's better informed.


I'm a quick learner

Barone
02-11-2012, 07:53 PM
By the way, will a soft mod memory card let me play import PS1 games on a PS2?
Don't do that...
Several Japanese PS1 games will have glitches and additional slowdown if you're using a PS2 to play them. No matter the model, the region or even the mod... Play PS1 games in a PS2 is for people that love to play hits like Tekken 3.

You usually like to do comparisons and the PS2 will not give you a proper source for that.
It's like if you're using a Retron3 to play Genesis games...

*Waiting to hear that play PS1 games in the PS2 is "Da Bomb!"*

sheath
02-11-2012, 08:19 PM
I've tested all of my US PS1 games on my PS2 and not noticed any differences, I also have a PS1 and checked load times and framerate for, yeah, popular titles to make sure there wasn't a difference. I was fairly confident that the PS2 actually has the PS1 inside it as the Controller IO processor or something silly like that. I haven't played a single Sony brand import though, so I wouldn't know a thing about those.

Kogen
02-11-2012, 10:47 PM
worst post in the entire thread



I'm a quick learner

HAH! You fear the TRUTH. You $ony nobody.

Simple fact: Wii > Saturn > PS

eddiespruce
02-11-2012, 10:50 PM
HAH! You fear the TRUTH. You $ony nobody.

Simple fact: Wii > Saturn > PS

I believe you mean: Saturn> PS > Wii

Kogen
02-11-2012, 11:08 PM
I believe you mean: Saturn> PS > Wii

More like: FM Towns Marty > Saturn > PS > Wii

eddiespruce
02-11-2012, 11:13 PM
More like: FM Towns Marty > Saturn > PS > Wii

I've never played a FM Towns Marty before, but I hear there's some decent stuff on it, and a large assortment of Hentai games, however these are impossible to get through if you don't know Japanese.

sheath
02-11-2012, 11:17 PM
If I had infinite space and money I would have an FM Towns Marty and an X68000 by now. Since that is never going to happen, classic PC gaming will likely never be an interest of mine.

I do find the comparison with the Saturn and PS1 ironic though, virtually every console from that age on seemed more like "lite" PCs than consoles to me.

Kogen
02-11-2012, 11:19 PM
I've never played a FM Towns Marty before, but I hear there's some decent stuff on it, and a large assortment of Hentai games, however these are impossible to get through if you don't know Japanese.

Maybe Tasuke has them? He seems like someone who could own and appreciate an FM Towns Marty.

eddiespruce
02-11-2012, 11:21 PM
Maybe Tasuke has them? He seems like someone who could own and appreciate an FM Towns Marty.

Perhaps, but I don't think Tasuke knows Japanese, and I can only read Hiragana and Katakana, but I can't speak any Japanese.

Zz Badnusty
02-12-2012, 01:22 AM
Your definition of "the same" seems to be different from everyone elses.
Fire Emblem, Langrisser, Shining Force, Tactics Ogre, all of these series have their own take on the Strategy RPG genre. They are similar (since they are in the same genre), but they are certainly not the same.
SJW follows the Tactics Ogre style of gameplay, with some SF elements. That's not "exactly the same" as either.
Thanks for trying to clarify. I still don't get it. You previously said they are nothing alike ...I just don't get that.
I'd like to follow up on this more when I have both games out of storage and on hand to play side by side, I'll start a unique thread then.

So at least at this point are we all decided that Saiyuki Journey West is the "better" game among the two?

Black_Tiger
02-12-2012, 01:33 AM
I'm a quick learner

I didn't even know what a Playstation was until last week yet I already know for a fact that it licks balls compared to the N64. It's a fact.

segaddict
02-12-2012, 02:00 AM
I didn't even know what a Playstation was until last week yet I already know for a fact that it licks balls compared to the N64. It's a fact.

that is a really sad statement :(

Kamahl
02-12-2012, 09:58 AM
Thanks for trying to clarify. I still don't get it. You previously said they are nothing alike ...I just don't get that.
It's like if you said "Fire Emblem and Shining Force are the exact same game" and I said "Dude... are you nuts? They are nothing alike".
Not rocket science.


So at least at this point are we all decided that Saiyuki Journey West is the "better" game among the two?
Not really, I only played enough of the game to figure out the mechanics, so I can't make a proper judgement. If we go by their grandparents I'd definitely choose SF3 since i'm not a big fan of Tactics Ogre :p.

Zz Badnusty
02-12-2012, 10:30 AM
It's like if you said "Fire Emblem and Shining Force are the exact same game" and I said "Dude... are you nuts? They are nothing alike".
Not rocket science.


Not really, I only played enough of the game to figure out the mechanics, so I can't make a proper judgement. If we go by their grandparents I'd definitely choose SF3 since i'm not a big fan of Tactics Ogre :p.
Since I've not played Tactics Ogre nor Fire Emblem your comparisons are meaningless to me. I've been looking for clarification of what makes the mechanics different. StarMist mentioned the elevation effects, which I was aware of and I don't really feel that changed my approach or execution of strategy, besides requiring adjustment for attack range and weapon effectiveness. The interface and command execution and attacks and spells and item and weapon management all play exactly the same by my experience.

Kamahl
02-12-2012, 10:59 AM
Since I've not played Tactics Ogre nor Fire Emblem your comparisons are meaningless to me. I've been looking for clarification of what makes the mechanics different. StarMist mentioned the elevation effects, which I was aware of and I don't really feel that changed my approach or execution of strategy, besides requiring adjustment for attack range and weapon effectiveness. The interface and command execution and attacks and spells and item and weapon management all play exactly the same by my experience.
It's like you saying "Sonic and Mario are the exact same game, you jump on enemies heads, there's platforming, you run fast, pick yellow things and get powerups" and I'm like "Dude... are you nuts? They're nothing alike!"
Two games in the same genre are always "similar", but saying they're exactly the same will get you the response above.

The elevation makes a big difference, just like permanent death in fire emblem makes a big difference, and the troops in langrisser make a big difference.

- Shining Force is all about discovering new allies, the simple combat mechanics, awesome battle animations and town exploration.
- Tactics Ogre is all about managing the terrain and positioning (including the direction of the attack) and troop management (you have heroes but members of the team include recruited troops too).

SJW basically takes out the troop management of Tactics Ogre and replaces it with the allies of SF. SF3 and SJW also both add the more interesting mission objectives.

But look at what is missing in SJW from the "SF school":
1. Simplified Combat (It has the Tactics Ogre style)
2. Town Exploration
3. Battle Animations

It's a HUGE difference, it's the stuff that separates SF from the other Strategy RPGs of it's time.

StarMist
02-12-2012, 05:20 PM
Zz, you asked whether we were agreed Saiyuki is the better game and from what I've attempted to play of Shining Force III inclined me to aye, it just isn't like the old games due to the awful graphics and camera angle even if which can be rotated is not exempt from criticism, viewpoint must never be a liability in a strategy game. I also found the music subpar and the character names atrocious albeit those nearest the protagonist can be changed. Yet Saiyuki lacks several evident merits Kamahl just underscored; moreover you stated it can be played exactly as if Shining Force, a notably simple exercise in strategy gaming, which for a dry, serious tactics game is damning--and even without playing it I can call it serious because that's what the inclusion of elevation and its effects qualifies it as, just as one-hit kills in a sidescrolling platformer do--either that or it's an aimless failure, just as such a platformer would be that somehow lacked challenge in level and boss design. Moving characters up and down field steps is tedious in itself, it needs some reward which would logically be challenge; those steps also make the battlefield ugly. Therefore a game using them that can be coasted through is a failure. It sounds as if SoR III and Saiyuki are a draw.

Kogen
02-12-2012, 05:32 PM
I traded my PS in for a My Little Pony EasyBake(tm) Oven. It was really a step-up in technology and fun.

eddiespruce
02-12-2012, 05:49 PM
I traded my PS in for a My Little Pony EasyBake(tm) Oven. It was really a step-up in technology and fun.

I don't blame you, as the PS is junk.

Kamahl
02-12-2012, 05:50 PM
Btw ZZ, you really should play some games from the Fire Emblem series. I haven't played them all, but the second on the SNES and the second on the GBA (the first to be translated to english) are both great. Your characters getting perma killed really adds a lot of tension to the game. Training and buying equipment are also extremely important since there isn't any turning back, you just do mission after mission. If you do like a lot of newbies do and abuse the "trap" character (a character that's either already promoted or higher lvl) you're screwed. They make the early missions a breeze but later on your team will be fatally under-powered.

Tactics Ogre is the most "serious" of them all, a game for a true tactician, I haven't played it nearly as much as I should.
EDIT: Tactics Ogre also features perma death but it's different. Character's can be revived during a battle, it's only if you leave them dead that they are permanently killed.

StarMist
02-12-2012, 07:02 PM
The true sign of a thread's being well seasoned is when Kogen at last bestows his wit upon it.

{{ ~~ }}Your characters getting perma killed really adds a lot of tension to the game.
Something I've long wanted of traditional RPGs. Nothing like trying to 1LC and RPG.

Kamahl
02-12-2012, 07:41 PM
Something I've long wanted of traditional RPGs. Nothing like trying to 1LC and RPG.
There's always Diablo 2 in hardcore mode.