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KnightWarrior
08-24-2012, 10:28 PM
It is possible to reverse engineering on this game like Super Mario Bros. from the TurboGrafx-16 version, not the NES version

I made a post in the Genesis Forum also

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?5374-Bonk-s-Adventure&highlight=Bonk%27s+Adventure

Guntz
08-24-2012, 11:20 PM
No... The NES version is far, far too complex. SMB is an extremely simple NES game.

KnightWarrior
08-25-2012, 12:09 AM
I'm not talking about the NES version

I mean reverse engineering the TurboGrafx Game to run on the Genesis

Barone
08-25-2012, 02:02 AM
It would be less impossible to reverse engineer it to run on the NES than on the Genesis. The instruction set is totally different and, like Guntz said, the game itself (gameplay, mechanisms; everything...) is way more complex than SMB.
Forget about it. It would be "easier" to try to implement a rip off from scratch IMO.

Guntz
08-25-2012, 04:08 PM
TG-16 Bonk's Adventure would be even harder to port/emulate/translate on the Genesis. Even if you went through that trouble, the resulting game would probably run extremely slowly at best.

Kamahl
08-25-2012, 06:56 PM
I mean reverse engineering the TurboGrafx Game to run on the Genesis
You do realize that the TurboGrafx CPU is on par with the genesis one right? (Faster but processes less data)
Emulating it with the Genesis would result in excruciatingly slow performance. Doesn't really matter if you replace all the hardware calls with native stuff, you still need to emulate a same spec CPU. It would be like trying to make a Xbox 360 emulator. It makes total sense when you remember you don't really need to emulate the graphics card or sound card since it's all API calls that can be directly converted. But there's no way you can emulate a 3 core PowerPC processor with even a 4 core i7. It's just not happening.

Chilly Willy
08-25-2012, 11:57 PM
You do realize that the TurboGrafx CPU is on par with the genesis one right? (Faster but processes less data)
Emulating it with the Genesis would result in excruciatingly slow performance. Doesn't really matter if you replace all the hardware calls with native stuff, you still need to emulate a same spec CPU. It would be like trying to make a Xbox 360 emulator. It makes total sense when you remember you don't really need to emulate the graphics card or sound card since it's all API calls that can be directly converted. But there's no way you can emulate a 3 core PowerPC processor with even a 4 core i7. It's just not happening.

It depends on how many byte operations there are. The 6502 is best at processing bytes, while the 68k concentrates on words and longs. Certainly the programmer would have to convert the 6502 code into good clean efficient 68k. Even if it's slower, that doesn't mean all is lost - many games are well faster than need be, and spend a lot of time waiting on the vertical blank before starting on the next frame of the game. If BA is that way, the 68k could be much slower and still run it full speed. The point is that no one really knows if it's possible until BA is FULLY reverse engineered like the community did with the various Sonic games. It needs to be figured out to such a level that you can identify the bottlenecks in the game. Only then can you know if you can port it to another console.

Drakon
08-26-2012, 12:47 AM
Sure you can. Get started on it.


It is possible to reverse engineering on this game like Super Mario Bros. from the TurboGrafx-16 version, not the NES version

I made a post in the Genesis Forum also

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?5374-Bonk-s-Adventure&highlight=Bonk%27s+Adventure

Kamahl
08-26-2012, 08:24 AM
It depends on how many byte operations there are. The 6502 is best at processing bytes, while the 68k concentrates on words and longs. Certainly the programmer would have to convert the 6502 code into good clean efficient 68k.
The problem is that the Super Mario Bros he mentioned wasn't converted, the 6502 code is being emulated. The 6502 on the Turbo is too fast for that. Of course the game can be converted but then it's a port, not exactly what he's talking about. There's also the problem with the palettes and the soundchip. FM has trouble with quite a few WSG sounds.

Zebbe
08-26-2012, 10:01 AM
Why wouldn't it be possible to port Bonk to the Mega Drive? What would you lose in the process?

Another case, I heard you can port Sonic to TG-16... but it would affect the backgrounds, wouldn't it?

Kamahl
08-26-2012, 10:07 AM
Why wouldn't it be possible to port Bonk to the Mega Drive? What would you lose in the process?
Oh you can, heck you wouldn't even lose much color (The Amiga version only has 16 colors for the background + enemies and looks better than the TG-16 original hehehe). It's doing what was done to get Super Mario Bros running on the genesis that won't work. That game is running in a weird half emulated state.


Another case, I heard you can port Sonic to TG-16... but it would affect the backgrounds, wouldn't it?
The parallax would be gone, but the speed would stay.

Zebbe
08-26-2012, 11:14 AM
Oh you can, heck you wouldn't even lose much color (The Amiga version only has 16 colors for the background + enemies and looks better than the TG-16 original hehehe). It's doing what was done to get Super Mario Bros running on the genesis that won't work. That game is running in a weird half emulated state.


OK, thanks for clearing things up.


The parallax would be gone, but the speed would stay.

And for SNES it would be the reverse?

Kamahl
08-26-2012, 11:21 AM
And for SNES it would be the reverse?
I'd say it depends on the developer... but yes.

Black_Tiger
08-26-2012, 02:21 PM
Why wouldn't it be possible to port Bonk to the Mega Drive? What would you lose in the process?

Another case, I heard you can port Sonic to TG-16... but it would affect the backgrounds, wouldn't it?

Someone has already made a playable tech demo for PC Engine that uses the graphics of the first stage and title screen of Sonic 1. It has the same kind of parallax, but it has been simplified quite a bit. It's very impressive considering it was done by a single person in his spare time.

sheath
08-26-2012, 02:26 PM
I don't think either the SNES or the TG16 could handle 50 rings getting knocked out of Sonic. The sprite sizes would mess up the effect on both systems, the TG16's sprite/scanline limit would cause more flickering than not, the SNES CPU would cause the game to slowdown a lot more than the Genesis games do non-OCed. It would be just a little bit better than the Master System and Game Gear games dropping a single coin to represent how many were dropped.

Also, neither the SNES or the TG16 could handle the speed along with the 8+ scroll layers of the later Genesis games. Sonic 1 US wouldn't be a problem in that respect. Sonic CD (which runs on the Genesis CPU), Sonic 2 and Sonic 3&K not so much.

Zebbe
08-26-2012, 02:32 PM
Someone has already made a playable tech demo for PC Engine that uses the graphics of the first stage and title screen of Sonic 1. It has the same kind of parallax, but it has been simplified quite a bit. It's very impressive considering it was done by a single person in his spare time.

Awesome. URL?

sheath
08-26-2012, 02:33 PM
Awesome. URL?

I thought that was Tomaitheous who made that one, what's his website again? Hum, http://pcedev.wordpress.net seems to be down. If nobody can find the ROM online I have it and will post a link. It's mostly just an art port, the gameplay isn't ported yet.

Kamahl
08-26-2012, 02:50 PM
The parallax in that game looks like crap xD, I don't have it anymore though. Pretty sure it wasn't made by Tom.
It does work pretty well to explain what the problem with implementing the parallax is though, the lack of vertical movement.

sheath
08-26-2012, 03:00 PM
Alright, it seems like Tom's site is down and all of the old links are as well. Here's the file (http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/default/files/Homebrew/sonic.7z) for the Sonic PCE demo. You'll need 7-zip to unzip it, and it's an ISO image, so either use Daemon tools for Magic Engine or burn it for real hardware.

KnightWarrior
08-26-2012, 04:19 PM
Why isn't it on ROM

The TurboChip could run Sonic

sheath
08-26-2012, 04:25 PM
Why isn't it on ROM

The TurboChip could run Sonic

If I recall it was just a quick art port and it is on CD so that everybody can try it without a flash cart.

KnightWarrior
08-26-2012, 04:55 PM
Well I can't play it on Ootake

sheath
08-26-2012, 04:58 PM
Well I can't play it on Ootake

I just tested it and only the ISO works on Magic Engine. If you use the demo version of Magic Engine you can see it, it isn't a long demo.

KnightWarrior
08-26-2012, 05:05 PM
Any Videos on youtube about it??

Drakon
08-27-2012, 12:02 AM
Why wouldn't it be possible to port Bonk to the Mega Drive? What would you lose in the process?

Another case, I heard you can port Sonic to TG-16... but it would affect the backgrounds, wouldn't it?

Lack of source code sure would make that a lot of work.

Zebbe
08-27-2012, 12:47 AM
I just tested it and only the ISO works on Magic Engine. If you use the demo version of Magic Engine you can see it, it isn't a long demo.

How do I play it? I just downloaded the Magic Engine, but it seems like it won't recognize the iso.

sheath
08-27-2012, 09:12 AM
How do I play it? I just downloaded the Magic Engine, but it seems like it won't recognize the iso.

You'll either need to burn the iso to a disk or mount it with daemon tools.

Chilly Willy
08-27-2012, 02:20 PM
I ran it on mednafen... "mednafen -pce.cdbios ~/roms/TG16/protos_homebrew/SYSCARD3.PCE -loadcd pce ~/roms/TG16/protos_homebrew/sonic/sonic.cue"

It looks more like SMS Sonic as far as the background is concerned, and the physics is way off, but not bad for a demo.

Zebbe
08-27-2012, 03:48 PM
You'll either need to [...] mount it with daemon tools.

It worked, thanks.

The demo was nice to see. It was downgraded from the original, but some parallax was definitely there :).

Black_Tiger
08-27-2012, 05:01 PM
There are several evolutions of the Sonic demo which were all made by the same single guy. An earlier one that wasn't playable used a SMS Sonic sprite. The last ones I saw came out around the same time and feature assets all from Sonic 1 for Genesis. Revisions of the Genesis game based port were released in both rom and iso forms. The original links died not long after the were posted. I know that I at least have a rom of an earlier version with no enemies.

At one point someone posted a video of one of the CD revisions on youtube, but I think that it is no longer up.

tomaitheous
09-14-2012, 12:43 PM
My site is http://pcedev.wordpress.com or www.pcedev.net .

As for the Sonic demo; that isn't mine. It's also written in HuC small C compiler for PCE which is extremely slow in *any* array access and other such stuff (shifts, local variables, function stack variables, etc). I did write a special custom Hsync handler for the author at one time to use with HuC, but he never ended up using it (the overhead on top of HuC was probably too much).

I did a Bonk demo for Genesis, but I never put out a public link for it (except on one of the threads in this 4th generation comparison... something or other thread).

I don't see why reverse-engineering BA would be that difficult. I mean, not anymore so than any other RE project. If I remember correctly, there's only 64kbyte (or is that 32kbyte, I forget) of total code space. The rest of the 384k rom (it's a mirrored up bank so some dumps show as 512k) is music and graphics and map data, etc. It's a very do-able project. I also looked at the sound engine a number of years back. It's fairly simple command style engine (what MML looks like when compiled). It should be pretty easy to have it running FM instruments in its place.