PDA

View Full Version : NTSC-J



evildragon
09-03-2012, 05:03 AM
Is it me or is the American Genesis outputting NTSC-J? It would seem so because when I adjust my TV's black level via a test pattern generator, the black level is fine throughout that, and my DVD player and even my Roku. But on the Genesis I have to turn up the brightness a little (including on my PS2 too for that matter), as if the black level is that of NTSC-J.

Also, just found out my 70's TV supports PAL.. Nice!

Proof: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/Evilweredragon/palgame.jpg
(This game is proof because it does NOT work in NTSC mode on a Genesis, no matter how you try to force it).

Joe Redifer
09-03-2012, 05:26 AM
That's only running in PAL if you have a EU Mega Drive. The US and JP units do not have the PAL color space built in to the machine. You may be able to get it to run in 50Hz, but not actual PAL. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong.

TmEE
09-03-2012, 06:38 AM
You will not get color in PAL 60Hz form a MD without changing the master clock aswell, or supplying your own to the encoder. 53693175 / 12 ~ 447443 which wildly different from 4433618 that is needed for PAL color. PAL color reproduction scheme is very different form NTSC aswell, so what you're seeing is some kind NTSC4.43+50Hz mix (well, 4.47 :P)
Those are all NTSC artifacts too on the letters, you won't get that in PAL.

lumclaw
09-03-2012, 07:35 AM
Genesis like SNES/PS1/Saturn/N64/etc does not intentionally associate color mode with refresh rate.
American Genesis at 50hz without an RGB cable, would attempt to output some form of NTSC 50.

Playstation 2 changed from the status quo. Even a US PS2 will default 60hz games to NTSC color and 50hz games to PAL color.

My suggestion would be looking into a component TV or RGB monitor. Those blurred edges around text don't begin to show off your console's full potential.

Drakon
09-03-2012, 08:14 AM
Honestly my ntsc-j systems don't / didn't look any darker than my US ones.

evildragon
09-03-2012, 11:28 AM
Honestly my ntsc-j systems don't / didn't look any darker than my US ones.

Which backs up my theory that American systems are still outputting NTSC J.

And I just figured out what was giving me color on pal games. My 32x, lol. If I remove my 32x and play a pal game it goes to a horribly disfigured black and white picture.

Drakon
09-03-2012, 08:44 PM
Okay fine, my consoles don't look any darker than my pc, dvd player, and other non gaming american stuff. Maybe I'm just not very sensitive to all of this.

villahed94
09-03-2012, 08:55 PM
The difference is negligible. Both NTSC-J and M encode colour using the very same working principle and the very same subcarrier.
The only difference I can find is with black and blanking level. NTSC-J uses a blanking level of 0 IREs (Just like PAL), whilst NTSC-M uses a blanking level of 7.5 IREs.
This results in an extremely small brightness difference that can be easily ignored.

evildragon
09-04-2012, 09:51 AM
I can spot these brightness differences quite easily, especially on my TV.. Needs me to modify the brightness control.

But it would appear both the Genesis and PS2 ARE using NTSC-J's black level.

villahed94
09-04-2012, 11:01 PM
Erm, resistors can do the same job, you know...

evildragon
09-04-2012, 11:35 PM
Resistors darken the picture. That's what I am trying to avoid. NTSC-J on an NTSC-M TV appears darker. I want it brighter.

KnightWarrior
09-05-2012, 01:24 AM
Proof: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...on/palgame.jpg
(This game is proof because it does NOT work in NTSC mode on a Genesis, no matter how you try to force it).

Do you have a PAL Mega Drive??

lumclaw
09-05-2012, 01:45 AM
Resistors darken the picture. That's what I am trying to avoid. NTSC-J on an NTSC-M TV appears darker. I want it brighter.

Sure but technically if you're using an Genesis set to 50hz, then the picture is neither correct NTSC-J or NTSC-M. Different video sync rate.

villahed94
09-06-2012, 01:07 AM
Resistors darken the picture. That's what I am trying to avoid. NTSC-J on an NTSC-M TV appears darker. I want it brighter.

Replace the resistor by a lower value one. Probably 56-62 ohm.

tomaitheous
09-14-2012, 12:25 PM
evildragon: Doesn't surprise me. I found out last year that the TG16 and US Turbo Duo's where outputting NTSC-J black levels. It's not just that the pictures darker, but that the whole range is compressed. You can compensate by brightening the picture, but that still doesn't accurately resolve the range compression issue. But yeah, it's annoying.