PDA

View Full Version : would streetfighter alpha be possible on the megadrive ?



KitsuneNight
04-30-2013, 12:51 PM
the snes is ( barley ) able to handle street fighter alpha 2 ( with a lot of help the sdd1 chip )
and we have seen thata stock megadrive is able to push out a proof of concept starfox
would a stock megadrive be able to handle street fighter alpha 1 ( and possibley 2 )
and if one had the time inclination and know how would a decent port of alpha 1 be possible ?

or could the megadrive even handle alpha 2 ?

with cut downs off course

or would these games be better suited to the 32x's bigger color palette and more horse power ?

TrekkiesUnite118
04-30-2013, 01:03 PM
It could probably handle it, but it would take a substantial hit as far as colors are concerned. The sprites would probably be fine, but the backgrounds would definitely suffer. Though you could probably have the Genesis do the Sprites and the 32X do the backgrounds and get a pretty decent looking port. A 32X port would definitely be doable, a Genesis port would be doable but with serious graphical compromises would be my best guess.

Sound wise though the music was already converted to FM Synth for the CPS-1/CPS Changer version, so using that as a base you could probably get the music ported over decently:

R2KyvAW4FBw

Though without the source code this is all just what if talk. Unless of course you want to make your own fighting engine and study the game for years to learn how it works.

NeoVamp
04-30-2013, 01:22 PM
I think SFA is perfectly possible on the Genesis, but some stages would be easier to convert then others.

What I would do is take Super SF2 and replace all the character sprites with reduced alpha sprites,
then replace the music, and then replace backgrounds with similar ones from the Alpha series.

Colorwise its all possible, but like I said before.. some stages would probably come out better then others.

as far as sprites are concerned.. the more sprites the bigger the game, but if you stick to the same amount of sprites
that Super SF2 uses then at least you'd get a pretty big game that also looks good.

hmm.. if only a skilled coder would reverse engineer Super SF2 and rebuild it into a usable source.

But you gotta be pretty dedicated to undertake such a task.

Drakon
04-30-2013, 03:47 PM
the snes is ( barley ) able to handle street fighter alpha 2 ( with a lot of help the sdd1 chip )
and we have seen thata stock megadrive is able to push out a proof of concept starfox
would a stock megadrive be able to handle street fighter alpha 1 ( and possibley 2 )
and if one had the time inclination and know how would a decent port of alpha 1 be possible ?

or could the megadrive even handle alpha 2 ?

with cut downs off course

or would these games be better suited to the 32x's bigger color palette and more horse power ?

Oh heck, you could fit into a snes cart a chip that's 100x more powerful than a snes itself. Any time a snes uses a chip inside the cart I consider that as "the snes can't handle it". The genesis starfox clone I've seen doesn't have nearly as many objects on the screen at one time as the snes version, it's not exactly a proper test. I don't get what you're asking by saying, "can it handle it with cut downs?". With enough cut downs a nes could "handle it".

Regarding audio...if the cps1 were so genesis compatible street fighter 2 champion edition and mercs would sound a heck of a lot better. The genesis audio hardware is too different from the cps1.

Metalwario64
04-30-2013, 04:15 PM
Though without the source code this is all just what if talk. Unless of course you want to make your own fighting engine and study the game for years to learn how it works.
Well, games like Sonic and Super Mario World have had their sources disassembled (http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=20360&page=1&pid=298450#p298450), and then some coders have read through it discovered what did what, then commented them so they'd be usable by other people.

I'm no programmer, so I don't know why this couldn't be potentially done with SFA2 on the SNES. If someone was capable enough, I could see that happening, then you'd have source code.

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

Gogogadget
04-30-2013, 04:22 PM
It's possible, it just probably wouldn't be very good.

TrekkiesUnite118
04-30-2013, 04:23 PM
Regarding audio...if the cps1 were so genesis compatible street fighter 2 champion edition and mercs would sound a heck of a lot better. The genesis audio hardware is too different from the cps1.

The hardware really isn't that different. The CPS1 has a YM2151 which as 8 4-OP FM channels + 1 Dedicated PCM Chip. The Genesis has a YM2612 which has 5/6 4-OP FM Channels and 1 DAC channel + 3 Square Waves and 1 White Noise generator. Worst case scenario is you lose 2-3 FM channels and take a hit in Percussion.

The beta versions of Street Fighter 2 sound pretty close to the CPS1 renditions:

Xz_OH3n7CUo

Uvupc3WdbF0

nAS6ejy2yrY

OE4suoieg28

And then there's Turtles in Time which uses almost the exact same sound hardware as the CPS-1 which sounds almost identical on the Genesis save a few PCM instruments missing:

BHck98en8qA

wkWpqi0cVec


Well, games like Sonic and Super Mario World have had their sources disassembled (http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=viewthread&t=20360&page=1&pid=298450#p298450), and then some coders have read through it discovered what did what, then commented them so they'd be usable by other people.

I'm no programmer, so I don't know why this couldn't be potentially done with SFA2 on the SNES. If someone was capable enough, I could see that happening, then you'd have source code.

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

If you were going to do that you'd be better off disassembling the arcade versions. Not only would you not be limited to the limits of the SNES port, but you'd be disassembling code for the same CPU as the Genesis, possibly making the porting easier.

Bottino
04-30-2013, 04:25 PM
I think SFA is perfectly possible on the Genesis, but some stages would be easier to convert then others.

What I would do is take Super SF2 and replace all the character sprites with reduced alpha sprites,
then replace the music, and then replace backgrounds with similar ones from the Alpha series.

Colorwise its all possible, but like I said before.. some stages would probably come out better then others.

as far as sprites are concerned.. the more sprites the bigger the game, but if you stick to the same amount of sprites
that Super SF2 uses then at least you'd get a pretty big game that also looks good.

hmm.. if only a skilled coder would reverse engineer Super SF2 and rebuild it into a usable source.

But you gotta be pretty dedicated to undertake such a task.

It sounds like a great idea.Also, port it to the 32X and give him some love.

kool kitty89
04-30-2013, 04:43 PM
Oh heck, you could fit into a snes cart a chip that's 100x more powerful than a snes itself. Any time a snes uses a chip inside the cart I consider that as "the snes can't handle it". The genesis starfox clone I've seen doesn't have nearly as many objects on the screen at one time as the snes version, it's not exactly a proper test. I don't get what you're asking by saying, "can it handle it with cut downs?". With enough cut downs a nes could "handle it".
To make a comment like that, you have to understand the purpose of the chip.

In the case of the S-DD1, it's a decompression engine allowing considerable cost reduction of the cart. Without it, the game would have required much more ROM and been considerably more expensive . . . or require much more of the animation and detail to be cut.

The MD itself can do some streaming decompression too (in software), though it's still practically limited and more so for CPU intensive games (fighters aren't generally aren't bad for that though). It's probably not going to compete with what the S-DD1 could handle overall, but it probably would have been decent at least. (especially with a bit more ROM to work with)

That-said, I rather doubt anything like that would have been handled particularly well if done with typical in-house Capcom development practices, given the relatively average (at best) optimization MD games saw (or, arguably, console games in general). Both SFII SCE and Super SFII on the MD are good examples there . . . crappy sample playback sound engines, mediocre use of samples on top of that (same low quality in Super and no sampled drums/percussion at all), and only a modest gain in animation and detail over the SNES counterparts in spite of the potential for software compression and use of larger ROM sizes. And given the particularly large/costly ROMs and relatively high profile nature of those games being released, it's even more strange. (not the same argument over a relatively low-budget release)

Now, if Sega handled it, or it was outsourced to a more capable developer, that certainly could have been another story. (probably should have done that for all the SF games . . . )


Regarding audio...if the cps1 were so genesis compatible street fighter 2 champion edition and mercs would sound a heck of a lot better. The genesis audio hardware is too different from the cps1.
That's totally up to programming . . . and that includes the synth hardware and not just the CPU (Z80) driven sample playback. The YM2612 is very similar to the arcade standard YM2151, just with fewer channels. (then you've got the PSG useful for some things and samples on top of that)

Capcom's sound driver is definitely sub-par . . . and a lot of their console programming in general isn't particularly well done either. (this came up before, and it's also interesting to note that one of the better sound-optimized SFII ports -the PC Engine version- wasn't programmed by Capcom at all)


Anyway, hardware speaking, the MD is perfectly capable of doing reasonable conversions of any YM2151 (and similar) based arcade hardware . . . not to mention decent arrangements for much different sound hardware too, and not uncommonly BETTER sounding than more technically powerful hardware using larger ROMs. (compare vapor trail arcade to the MD version)

Metalwario64
04-30-2013, 04:52 PM
If you were going to do that you'd be better off disassembling the arcade versions. Not only would you not be limited to the limits of the SNES port, but you'd be disassembling code for the same CPU as the Genesis, possibly making the porting easier.
I knew I must be wrong, so thanks for correcting me! :D Forgot they both had the same type of processor.

sheath
04-30-2013, 05:09 PM
I think I agree with the general trend of the thread. The game could have been done but not 1:1 obviously. It would need to have sprite and animation changes for the lower resolution and ROM for one thing. No way was anybody going to make a Megadrive/Genesis game at 15Megabytes for one thing. Then there's the niggling problem of the four 15-color palettes on screen at one time.

Would the game be possible? Are the Street Fighter games or, technically more impressive, home exclusives like Eternal Challenge and WeaponLord possible? Of course the game could be done, but the graphics and sound would be different. How different would be a factor of how much resources, and the quality of those resources, was put into it. I imagine most frames in a 5Mbit cartridge with heavy compression and massive changes to the backgrounds including dithering and posterized art changes. Otherwise the game could play perfectly and look like a 16-bit title.

TrekkiesUnite118
04-30-2013, 05:26 PM
The resolution wouldn't really need to be affected that much. If you have the ROM space you could get by with just having the sides cut off a bit similar to the Saturn CPS2 ports. Though you would need to scale down the Health Bars and Super Bars to make them fit.

zyrobs
04-30-2013, 05:45 PM
The resolution wouldn't really need to be affected that much. If you have the ROM space you could get by with just having the sides cut off a bit similar to the Saturn CPS2 ports. Though you would need to scale down the Health Bars and Super Bars to make them fit.

That worked on the Saturn because it was only 32 pixels thinner. Megadrive would be 64pixels thinner, which might be more notable.
Regardless, you'd need to redo all the graphics for it to fit in the cart anyway, so you might as well resize them while you are at it.

SF Alpha is possible but you'd have to cut a lot of things. Hell, Marvel vs Capcom 1 would be possible but you'd have to cut a lot of things.

TrekkiesUnite118
04-30-2013, 06:38 PM
It wouldn't be that bad really. You'd just be going from this:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m98/TrekkiesUnite118/WarriorsDreamsEuro950727-2_zps969741ae.png

To this:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m98/TrekkiesUnite118/WarriorsDreamsEuro950727-2-320_zpsa864c730.png

While a lot of the HUD is gone, that can be fixed and resized. The rest isn't too bad.

Metalwario64
04-30-2013, 07:55 PM
The graphics would need to be squashed horizontally though. The arcade game is widescreen made to be squashed to 4x3, so the sprites would look too wide if left as is. The SNES sprites would be usable if one didn't want to manually edit each frame to look good in the thinner ratio. Maybe the SNES sprites could be a base, and if one wanted to have more animation frames, just those could be converted.

kool kitty89
05-03-2013, 03:07 AM
The hardware really isn't that different. The CPS1 has a YM2151 which as 8 4-OP FM channels + 1 Dedicated PCM Chip. The Genesis has a YM2612 which has 5/6 4-OP FM Channels and 1 DAC channel + 3 Square Waves and 1 White Noise generator. Worst case scenario is you lose 2-3 FM channels and take a hit in Percussion.
For sampled percussion, it would really depend on the sound driver used (ie programming) and ROM space allotted to samples. (and preprocessing/encoding/conversion optimization)

I'm pretty sure the CPS-1 is limited to ~7.57 kHz for its ADPCM channels, so not particularly tough to beat on the MD in terms of quality.



The resolution wouldn't really need to be affected that much. If you have the ROM space you could get by with just having the sides cut off a bit similar to the Saturn CPS2 ports. Though you would need to scale down the Health Bars and Super Bars to make them fit.

It wouldn't be that bad really. You'd just be going from this:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m98/TrekkiesUnite118/WarriorsDreamsEuro950727-2_zps969741ae.png

To this:

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m98/TrekkiesUnite118/WarriorsDreamsEuro950727-2-320_zpsa864c730.png

While a lot of the HUD is gone, that can be fixed and resized. The rest isn't too bad.

You'd really want to re-draw the sprites (and BG) to compensate for the different aspect ratio . . . especially if you take PAL into account (which would look REALLY stretched if using arcade aspect ratio graphics on MD at H40 -NTSC optimized graphics would look only modestly stretched in comparison).

Plus it saves on memory (ROM space and VRAM space) along with VRAM update bandwidth and sprite rendering bandwidth. (and CPU overhead for decompression)



In terms of actual graphical quality, I'd imagine it would be more in the range of what the SNES managed . . . and comparing that with what Capcom already did with SSFII on both platforms. (not to mention the potential for a conversion handled by developers more skilled on the MD than Capcom . . . both in terms of graphics and sound)

Drakon
05-03-2013, 08:10 AM
The graphics would need to be squashed horizontally though. The arcade game is widescreen made to be squashed to 4x3, so the sprites would look too wide if left as is. The SNES sprites would be usable if one didn't want to manually edit each frame to look good in the thinner ratio. Maybe the SNES sprites could be a base, and if one wanted to have more animation frames, just those could be converted.

....cps1/2 outputs 4x3, it just maybe uses a different resolution and tilesize, dimensions should still be the same.

I'm sure with an oversized flash chip you could make one rockin' version of sf alpha for the genesis.

Metalwario64
05-03-2013, 02:58 PM
....cps1/2 outputs 4x3, it just maybe uses a different resolution and tilesize, dimensions should still be the same.

I'm sure with an oversized flash chip you could make one rockin' version of sf alpha for the genesis.
I'm not saying it doesn't ultimately display the graphics as 4x3.

But as posted earlier, the internal aspect ratio is close to 16x9:
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m98/TrekkiesUnite118/WarriorsDreamsEuro950727-2_zps969741ae.png

So just using the raw sprites in a Genesis game would result in the sprites and graphics looking too wide. To keep the intended aspect ratio, the graphics would need to be compressed horizontally to something like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/2pimp4u/sfaaspectratio_zpsaa45ff93.jpg

Chilly Willy
05-03-2013, 03:03 PM
The CPS1 uses a 4:3 display at a resolution of 384x224, while the Genesis is 4:3 at a resolution of 320x224. Notice how the CPS1 has more pixels in a line - the pixels are not as wide as the pixels on the Genesis, and that is what he meant by needing to redo the graphics or you will have the wrong aspect ratio.

Vector2013
05-05-2013, 08:47 PM
If anybody could get a capcom or snk fighting engine it would be the homebrew holy grail, the 16 bit machine mugen fuel. So whoever de scrambles the code or reverses it or whatever to find the fight engine or make a md "port"/snes mirror of this game like OP is asking can be done, cool.

Drakon
05-05-2013, 09:23 PM
If anybody could get a capcom or snk fighting engine it would be the homebrew holy grail, the 16 bit machine mugen fuel. So whoever de scrambles the code or reverses it or whatever to find the fight engine or make a md "port"/snes mirror of this game like OP is asking can be done, cool.

I reworked some of the physics in the arcade version of street fighter 2 champion edition. My friend who does mugen stuff said the mugen engine runs in very similar ways.

Vector2013
05-05-2013, 11:20 PM
I reworked some of the physics in the arcade version of street fighter 2 champion edition. My friend who does mugen stuff said the mugen engine runs in very similar ways.

Awesome news Drakon. How long before BOR goes to Sega CD ha :cool:

KitsuneNight
05-05-2013, 11:50 PM
If anybody could get a capcom or snk fighting engine it would be the homebrew holy grail, the 16 bit machine mugen fuel. So whoever de scrambles the code or reverses it or whatever to find the fight engine or make a md "port"/snes mirror of this game like OP is asking can be done, cool.

i was not asking for anything

i was asking if it would have been technically possible to get street fighter alpha 1 or 2 on the megadrive

and apparantly it would have been possible and thats all i wanted to know

NeoVamp
05-06-2013, 06:39 AM
and apparantly it would have been possible and thats all i wanted to know

2D is 2D, all 2D fighters could be possible on the MD, but if they end up looking nice.. that's a whole other story.

KitsuneNight
05-06-2013, 06:40 AM
well if the game would end up looking and playing like sf alpha 1 at least was my question i suppose

NeoVamp
05-06-2013, 07:21 AM
well if the game would end up looking and playing like sf alpha 1 at least was my question i suppose

That is easily answered, play Super Street Fighter II on arcade (mame or something) and then play the MD version of SSF2.

Notice how porting it to an inferior platform changed it? now apply those changes to the arcade version of SFA and that's what an MD version of SFA would be like.

sheath
05-06-2013, 10:16 AM
It's not that simple. Super Street Fighter 2 on Genesis is using it's 256 wide mode, it isn't even close to the maximum quality conversion it could have been. The colors aren't properly optimized, most look like they were downscaled to 4x16 by a computer program. Super Street Fighter 2 is a good example of what a sloppy SNES port looks like on the Genesis' lowest resolution. I'd say look at Arcade Samurai Shodown an then Samurai Shodown on Sega CD to see what a closer approximation of the Arcade game might have been.

Black_Tiger
05-06-2013, 02:29 PM
It's not that simple. Super Street Fighter 2 on Genesis is using it's 256 wide mode, it isn't even close to the maximum quality conversion it could have been. The colors aren't properly optimized, most look like they were downscaled to 4x16 by a computer program. Super Street Fighter 2 is a good example of what a sloppy SNES port looks like on the Genesis' lowest resolution. I'd say look at Arcade Samurai Shodown an then Samurai Shodown on Sega CD to see what a closer approximation of the Arcade game might have been.

I think that SSFII has the best optimized color of any Genesis game considering what it is trying to pull off. What Capcom managed was a miracle and the game would be used as a measure of the potential of the Genesis if there didn't happen to be a superior SNES version. That exact game is the most taxing type of visuals for the Genesis' color abilities. The players max out the color limit for the sprites and the backgrounds are extremely detailed and packed with variety. Even while handicapped by trying to look like the source material for general coloring, what other Genesis/Sega-CD game even comes close to SSFII for best use of color?


Alpha ports to Genesis have come up many times in various forums, including this one. I put together a mockup or two within the Genesis' color specs for a thread on digitpress thag I reposted here the last time this came up. I cant find them now, but what I say each time is that the Genesis can handle any regular 2 on 2 2D street fighting game. The ones that exist prove this. The Alpha visual style actually suites the Genesis' color limits better than most street fighting games, so a port of the original SFA could look and sound and play great.

sega16
05-06-2013, 05:10 PM
Though without the source code this is all just what if talk. Unless of course you want to make your own fighting engine and study the game for years to learn how it works.
Not true at all just use a dissembler it is much easier that is if you know assembly.

Vector2013
05-06-2013, 05:11 PM
i was not asking for anything

i was asking if it would have been technically possible to get street fighter alpha 1 or 2 on the megadrive

and apparantly it would have been possible and thats all i wanted to know

I know what you asked, I read the OP. Of course SFA or SFA2 could be possible on MD, maybe mirrored or a little worse than SFA2 on SNES.


or make a md "port"/snes mirror of this game like OP is asking can (could/possible) be done, cool.

But the topic came up of fighting engines, and it's great the sf2 engine is being worked on at least. So maybe not only could SFA2 be possible, it might appear one day in some form. Maybe nowhere as good as SNES version but.

Neo how did you get that Gens SFA screenshot, like you just made a test bin and it de colorized it to see what it could look like on Genesis or ?

saturndual32
05-06-2013, 05:33 PM
Its a shame you cant find those mock ups Black Tiger. Did you ever do any SSF2 PCE mockups Black Tiger?, its such a shame that it wasnt ported to PCE, specially with the Arcade Card!

NeoVamp
05-06-2013, 06:18 PM
Neo how did you get that Gens SFA screenshot, like you just made a test bin and it de colorized it to see what it could look like on Genesis or ?

Yeah I just took a background and 2 sprites, changed to the allowed amount of colors, edited the palette to be that of the MD
and then compiled it into a rom with BasiEgaXorz. Not sure where the images came from, probably the Snes rom.

Only problem is that I'm very bad at coding, I managed to figure out how to compile it into a rom but its still technically 1 image,
there's no sprites or anything, its all just one 31 color image.

Would have been cooler if it had been 2 layers and 2 sprites, I could have had the sprites be animated.

still, its cool to see it on my Mega Everdrive.

Drakon
05-06-2013, 06:43 PM
Awesome news Drakon. How long before BOR goes to Sega CD ha :cool:

How long will it take you? The point is, mugen already works a lot like the real engine.

Barone
05-06-2013, 07:23 PM
I think that SSFII has the best optimized color of any Genesis game considering what it is trying to pull off. What Capcom managed was a miracle and the game would be used as a measure of the potential of the Genesis if there didn't happen to be a superior SNES version. That exact game is the most taxing type of visuals for the Genesis' color abilities. The players max out the color limit for the sprites and the backgrounds are extremely detailed and packed with variety. Even while handicapped by trying to look like the source material for general coloring, what other Genesis/Sega-CD game even comes close to SSFII for best use of color?
Well, to me SSFII on the Genesis looks like crap. I really prefer the look of SFIICE Plus despite all its shortcomings when compared to the arcade game.
Colors are really bad in SSFII IMO, I can't stand the bloody awful color choices for more than 5 minutes... To not talk about the atrocious sfx and music.

kool kitty89
05-06-2013, 07:38 PM
It's not that simple. Super Street Fighter 2 on Genesis is using it's 256 wide mode, it isn't even close to the maximum quality conversion it could have been. The colors aren't properly optimized, most look like they were downscaled to 4x16 by a computer program. Super Street Fighter 2 is a good example of what a sloppy SNES port looks like on the Genesis' lowest resolution. I'd say look at Arcade Samurai Shodown an then Samurai Shodown on Sega CD to see what a closer approximation of the Arcade game might have been.
I don't mind the use of dithering so much, but I'd agree that the color/art conversion could have been done better in general . . . let alone in H40. With the extra 1 MB over the SNES counterpart, and the software compression possibilities the MD offers, there definitely could have been improvements over the existing MD conversion of SSFII. (including sound quality too -both music conversion and sfx/speech)

It's kind of a repeat of SFII SCE: apparent willingness to invest in more expensive manufacturing (larger ROM size) for the time, yet relatively weak optimization on the game itself.

Raijin
05-07-2013, 08:36 AM
I saw this thread and decided to cover Adon's Stage as a demonstration of what the game could sound like on the Genesis.

http://youtu.be/ElH3m2AlYKQ

saturndual32
05-07-2013, 04:12 PM
Sounds great, good work Raijin!

sheath
05-07-2013, 05:29 PM
I don't mind the use of dithering so much, but I'd agree that the color/art conversion could have been done better in general . . . let alone in H40. With the extra 1 MB over the SNES counterpart, and the software compression possibilities the MD offers, there definitely could have been improvements over the existing MD conversion of SSFII. (including sound quality too -both music conversion and sfx/speech)

It's kind of a repeat of SFII SCE: apparent willingness to invest in more expensive manufacturing (larger ROM size) for the time, yet relatively weak optimization on the game itself.

I wonder if all of the animation requires too much DMA from cart for compressed audio samples to be realistic. I'm not against dithering either, but for the Genesis it seems like only vertical dithering works well, spherical or horizontal dithering produces rather nasty dots on screen that take away from any art design that might have been intended. Either way, I'd put the MK games, Eternal Champions and WeaponLord well above the two Street Fighters on Genesis in every category save gameplay.

Vector2013
05-07-2013, 05:43 PM
How long will it take you? The point is, mugen already works a lot like the real engine.

I never said I will do it. How long will it take me then, forever. Everytime someone asks about something (even though I was joking but who cares) you bob in the thread and say "well when will you do it ?". Shut the fuck up with that annoying troll shit already it's getting old. Now go ahead and tell me and others not to ask these type of questions here, you'll have a lot of typing to do.

I have no plans to do it, but maybe since there are other people in the world with more knowledge who can maybe they will. I am not the only person on Earth and have NO knowledge to make a game. How about you, when will you get it done huh ? Yeah I asked if mugen/bor could be done on sega cd for a final fight + sor megamix in other section days ago. Go look if you want.

You made a Sonic game. So everyone must now make everything and not ask shit without hearing an annoying "well when will you do it?". That is your logic. Have fun with that. If you respond to this you will see how much I give a fuck about your response.

Vector2013
05-07-2013, 05:54 PM
I need a Sega CD model 1, ppff "I better start making my own" then and not asking who will sell theirs or go on ebay. I better program all my computers programs too and not d/l setup files for others. Yeah. :daze: I'm not interested in creating/programming or working on games, adding onto the library of hacked Sonic games or building rovers for NASA or whatever shit example you could put a tired corny "when will you do it" comment for. Why is your friend helping you in any way with sf2 engine or anything related to it, "do it yourself" programmer. Not everyone programs, that might be hard to believe for you but it's true. It's not to being lazy, some things don't interest everybody. Are you going to tell Mark on classic game room to start programming games by saying "when you will do it" because he thought this or that would be a good game ? Wouldn't surprise me. I'm building a Neptune + so I do actually do shit myself.


Yeah I just took a background and 2 sprites, changed to the allowed amount of colors, edited the palette to be that of the MD
and then compiled it into a rom with BasiEgaXorz. Not sure where the images came from, probably the Snes rom.

Only problem is that I'm very bad at coding, I managed to figure out how to compile it into a rom but its still technically 1 image,
there's no sprites or anything, its all just one 31 color image.

Would have been cooler if it had been 2 layers and 2 sprites, I could have had the sprites be animated.

still, its cool to see it on my Mega Everdrive.

Awesome Neo. The example you did Gens looked great for MD imo.

Drakon
05-07-2013, 10:54 PM
I never said I will do it. How long will it take me then, forever. Everytime someone asks about something (even though I was joking but who cares) you bob in the thread and say "well when will you do it ?". Shut the fuck up with that annoying troll shit already it's getting old. Now go ahead and tell me and others not to ask these type of questions here, you'll have a lot of typing to do.

I have no plans to do it, but maybe since there are other people in the world with more knowledge who can maybe they will. I am not the only person on Earth and have NO knowledge to make a game. How about you, when will you get it done huh ? Yeah I asked if mugen/bor could be done on sega cd for a final fight + sor megamix in other section days ago. Go look if you want.

You made a Sonic game. So everyone must now make everything and not ask shit without hearing an annoying "well when will you do it?". That is your logic. Have fun with that. If you respond to this you will see how much I give a fuck about your response.

If you want something done do it yourself, suggesting it on a forum never will make it happen. I didn't make a sonic game, apparently you can't read well. If you truly don't "give a f#ck" then stop whining like a little baby. I was making a point that mugen already runs very much like the real engine so there's no point in reverse engineering the original game engine. Your suggestion is a waste of time and you completely missed the point. Logically, it's much easier to come up with a recreated engine instead of reverse engineering the original engine. There's a reason why mugen was made the way it was, it does the job just fine. You don't need to be a programmer to figure this stuff out.

Vector2013
05-08-2013, 05:00 PM
If you want something done do it yourself, suggesting it on a forum never will make it happen. I didn't make a sonic game, apparently you can't read well.

I can read fine, I just thought you made that Metal Sonic hack but I must be confusing you with somebody else with almost the same spelling name ah yes http://www.sega-16.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-21142.html

"Drakon

You stole my username!!! Looks like an awesome hack though, I've always wanted to play as robo sonic.

*edit* wow it's like a total conversion in all the best ways."

Very similar but my apologies then. Speaking of reading, you did see I typed that bor in a joking manner yes ?


If you truly don't "give a f#ck" then stop whining like a little baby.

I'm just explaining the situation, it seems like I have this conversation with members in pm and posts, that everyone here won't program nor should they if they don't want to. I do agree with you if your into stuff you should do it yourself if it's reasonable like how I'm building a Neptune + but I also understand everyone here isn't hands on either, you know. I guess I could have been less of a prick about it but I see comments like that too much just from people asking questions (again I was joking). There is shit I do myself, but right now programming isn't one of them. I found it cool you are working on a sf2 engine (code/reversing/etc) and let you know that but I got a comment I saw too many times as a response.


I was making a point that mugen already runs very much like the real engine so there's no point in reverse engineering the original game engine.

I'm not sure why your even saying this. Mugen on pc was altered slightly to run on dc so I thought (if you look in sega cd thread) perhaps only a slight code change could run a bor sor/ff type megamix game on sega cd. Again it was a joke. But honestly it would be cool to see a game like Kill Bill on dc run on sega cd, it's 16 bit anyway.


Your suggestion is a waste of time and you completely missed the point. Logically, it's much easier to come up with a recreated engine instead of reverse engineering the original engine. There's a reason why mugen was made the way it was, it does the job just fine. You don't need to be a programmer to figure this stuff out.

Again, not sure why your writing this. I made a comment that it's cool you are working on a sf2 engine and joked about a bor engine game running on sega cd, so.

Fair enough, hopefully we can stop the light name calling now.

NeoVamp
05-10-2013, 04:54 PM
perhaps only a slight code change could run a bor sor/ff type megamix game on sega cd.

I doubt it would be that simple, the reason the DC had so much homebrew was because it ran Windows CE or something.
also it had quite a bit of horsepower compared to the Sega CD.


it's 16 bit anyway.

I'm not familiar with Kill Bill BOR mod thingy, what makes it 16 bit?

Mask of Destiny
05-10-2013, 05:26 PM
I doubt it would be that simple, the reason the DC had so much homebrew was because it ran Windows CE or something.
also it had quite a bit of horsepower compared to the Sega CD.
I'm not aware of any DC homebrew that uses Windows CE (there's probably some, but it's not common). The Dreamcast didn't ship with Windows CE onboard. It was just available to developers and used in some commercial games though.

DC homebrew got popular for a number of reasons. Programming the Dreamcast is relatively straightforward. You can burn discs that will run on the hardware without modding. Compared to the Sega CD it was actually quite popular. CD burners were readily available during its height. These initial factors led people to create good tools for doing homebrew development on the platform which made things even easier.

NeoVamp
05-11-2013, 09:35 AM
Well there you go then, not WinCE just a very open platform. that also packed some horsepower.

Vector2013
05-11-2013, 12:02 PM
I doubt it would be that simple, the reason the DC had so much homebrew was because it ran Windows CE or something.

Yeah I realize my dreamcast has WinCE but not sure if that is just there for modem stuff or how that o/s is used or anything.



also it had quite a bit of horsepower compared to the Sega CD.


Very good point, but it seems like Kill Bill or Final Fight SF version could run on sega cd.



I'm not familiar with Kill Bill BOR mod thingy, what makes it 16 bit?

I could be wrong Neo, but those BOR mods/homebrews beat em ups all look 16 bit (Neo Geo or MD/SNES like) 16 bit style. Like Final Fight CD on Sega CD looks as good as Kill Bill on DC.

I was kind of joking anyway, but I did ask in another thread if a SOR/FF megamix with youtube fan music, sor and ff music could be added like a cool homebrew for Sega CD like DC ones. Since someone did a Sonic Megamix for Sega CD, not sure what you call that platform Sonic engine though. I can't find that SOR/FF SOR2 or 3 hack rom bin.

lYAPEf0jEbo
XUv5I0Lhyus
LMaLiXNAXMk

Vector2013
05-11-2013, 12:54 PM
Sorry for the double post, but Neo do you remember the thread we discussed how it's crazy there hasn't been a sf or sf like fighting engine for consoles like bor beat em up engine is kind of common now and you suggested reverse engineering or decoding sf to get fighting engine or like how doing it closely would take same amount of dedication and time ?

Because I suggesting same thing here like it would be cool if someone (nope not me) could do that kind of following what you suggested and got a pm as if that was off the wall or something, like why should someone do a sf2 romhack patch if we were discussing a fighting megamix game (backgrounds different, better sound, maybe adding story of bruce lee vs fei long ha) like mugen on md (using sf engine) because BOR (open source yeah but we were discussing how in 20 years sf2 engine or snk one wasn't debugged or replicated and posted publicly yet by a fan who is knowledgeable and dedicated in programming (open source)) ?

Because imagine a sfa type game with better sound on md instead of just ssf2 romhack with different character sprites but with same backgrounds and bad sound ? With the engine people can make their own fighting games, instead of rom hacks. Don't get me wrong sor2 rom hacks are cool but it's just 1 or 2 different characters and same game and I don't think a sf type rom hack was ever done anyway. But we were just discussing engine, because the sf engine is great the physics, hit detection, sound of punches all that but maybe only 2 ways of doing it, redoing it or getting source by going through it's code.

Also I don't want just Guy or Cody in a sor bor sega cd game but like a homebrew of ff guys sor guys and new backgrounds with megamix of youtube fan music and sor and ff music in cdda/wav, how is that off the wall or why should I program just to be qualified to ask that question ?

Edit. Why are some of my posts delayed by days in threads (this one) because mods here need to read or review them first ? I believed this happened to Neo too, but not sure if his post to me was approved yet in other thread. We aren't arguing or even debating (but when we do it's just a friendly detailed convo) we are just having a discussion, so what gives ? Imagine if kool kitty had to retyping his posts as pms because he isn't approved that day in thread or something.

And one last thing, I do have a concept of how important coding, sources and how long reworking things takes, it's how I collaborated with Revive DC to redo this, you'll notice my name but Revive did the reworking of what I re uploaded that was online in 2002 but not online in forever. It was a deal, I get a version of Smash Pack I like and he gets the files/source he needed. But no I don't know how to program, like maybe 80% of this forum. But I still will ask questions or make suggestions (that makes more sense than some on this forum that is for damn sure).

http://www.theisozone.com/downloads/dreamcast/emulators/sega-smash-pack-15/

I'm here to learn, but not do everything everyone does, I have no time for that. I'm busy with my Neptune + atm.

I don't know how to program, but a fighting megamix game using the sf engine would be cool, and I asked if Neo knows how to and he said no, but if he could he would do a MK game so I don;t see what the big deal is of what we are discussing. Even my ff/sor bor Sega CD suggestion.

And for the record, not sure why SFA2 was released on snes and not md unless nintendo and capcom had more of a games amount contract deal more than sega and capcom did. Because in late 1996, both the md and snes were "dead" by that point yet sfa2 came out on snes in Nov or Dec in 1996, I remember buying it in early 1997 though.

NeoVamp
05-11-2013, 03:47 PM
Whoa big post, I'll try to address as much of it as I can.



I could be wrong Neo, but those BOR mods/homebrews beat em ups all look 16 bit (Neo Geo or MD/SNES like)
16 bit style. Like Final Fight CD on Sega CD looks as good as Kill Bill on DC.

Aah yes, but looking like a 16bit game and actually being one are two very different things,
for example.. you see a bor mod and say "that looks like it could run on the Sega CD"
but what you don't see is that the background is an enormous bmp file with 256 colors.
or how there are differently colored enemies showing up at once, implying more then 2 palette's,
or how it uses 10 different layers instead of 2, all kinda stuff like that, just because it looks classic doesn't mean it us,
take Megaman 10 for example, yeah you could rip the art and convert it to NES and hack into a Megaman engine and it would work,
but.. that's pretty much the same with every game, Tekken 3? you can make sprites out of that, and convert to Sega palette,
you can pretty much convert everything, Mortal Kombat 9? you can take pics of the fighter stances and convert to MD quality,
but.. the game won't be a perfect reproduction of the original, but.. you got your port.
But you won't be able to just port BOR to Sega CD, the engine expects a much beefier cpu for that, because the engine, the heart underneath.. is not 16 bit.



Why are some of my posts delayed by days in threads (this one) because mods here need to read or review them first ?

This is a problem with the forum software, it seems to detect (and dislike) certain words or links, like roms and ebay.
if this happens just email a mod and tell him in what thread your post is, he will make it visible. (has to be done by them manually)


but not sure if his post to me was approved yet in other thread.

Yes it was, after I contacted Baloo it was approved, go and check it out! (http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?15322-Best-Hack-Fighter&p=574487&viewfull=1#post574487)



not sure why SFA2 was released on snes and not md

Simple, Sega dropped support for their console completely so they could focus on the almighty Saturn,
the amazing Sega Saturn that would make them kings of the gaming business, fuck everything before that,
The Saturn is king! SFA2 will be on Saturn!
While Nintendo was like "meh.. release on Snes, N64 is amazing superior 3D console anyway, SFA2 is old 2D,
3D is future! let them play it on the Snes!"


As far as a Genesis fighting engine goes, Yeah I'm still convinced it would be a great thing to have,
BUT! it would have to be open source, and with an editor so people can import their files,
you gotta be able to toggle some settings with said editor, so you can have all kinds of fighting engine choices to choose from.

will anyone do it? no.. everybody seems happy enough with Mugen, except me.

Can't say I'd be interested in a BOR port though, for BOR I just use my modded Xbox, no quality loss and still the joy of playing BOR mods on my tv.

but MD wise.. I don't know, I just want to see what can be done, I don't wanna port, I wanna make something..
I want to make a classic Capcom Vs SNK game, with classic Ryu Vs classic Terry Bogard, Balrog the Boxer Vs Axel Hawk, Vega Vs Lee Pai Long, King Vs Cammy, etc.

I want to convert the Mortal Kombat 1 stages to MD colors and make my own version of MK1 on MD, fuck Probe's lousy port!

Vector2013
05-14-2013, 06:41 PM
Great post Neo, I see what you mean about looking 16 bit but might not be and stuff. Ok I will contact mod if that happens again. Ah yes SFA2 on Saturn, I just thought the Sega Capcom contract for MD was up. Yes a open source fighter for md or bor on sega (IF possible) would be cool. That Kill Bill looks 64 colors and not many enemies on screen in most of game. But true, Sega CD might not be able to handle. But as long as cpu could push engine, it should work. (I'm sure the DC BOR is a lighter version of PC BOR so maybe a lighter version for Sega CD could be coded from source ?) IDK, figured I'd ask.

tonmegaboy
04-01-2018, 01:36 AM
"what other Genesis/Sega-CD game even comes close to SSFII for best use of color?"

Ranger X no doubt is far better than SSTFII. And Honestly I don't know how could you see how lazy developers were on those background. DEE JAY stage in sunset looks like it was used only 16 colors!!!

Sik
04-01-2018, 12:13 PM
Holy necromancer Batman.

...but I have to point out that Samurai Shodown got away with just 16 colors for backgrounds (・・ ) (and they had to, because they really ran out of colors to the point of swapping palettes mid-screen) Even the enhanced colors hack sticks to that and it definitely doesn't look like it's much of a problem:

https://i.imgur.com/QYes19J.png

Shit palettes can make anything look bad regardless of color count.

Black_Tiger
04-01-2018, 01:02 PM
Ranger X has nice pixelart and effects, but is not an example of great color work in a Genesis game. If the SFII ports were done the same way as Ranger-X, nothing would resemble the arcade and you'd wind up with blue and purple skinned variants of Ryu.

Street Fighter style games are the hardest kind of game to do pull off within the Genesis' color restrictions. And that's just a 1-on-1 fighting game in general. An original game would still need a dedicated palette for each fighter and their projectiles, leaving only two 15 color palettes for all of the background and hud. What is infitely more challenging than that, is having to shoot for faithful coloring of a huge detailed arcade game, at the peak of it's popularity as one of the biggest games in history.

16 colors for a sky/sunset is more than most SNES or arcade games would use. After the hud is factored in, you have only one 15 color palette and a second palette with fewer colors to work with for the entire background.

The SFII ports, like most Genesis games, could have had much better color and shading. But similar to how most PC Engine games could have had much more parallax, that's not what happened. By the standards at the time and for the now overall existing library, the SFII ports are still some of the most impressive Genesis games for color on a technical level.

Thankfully color hacks are pushing them much further and at least giving us an idea of the potential for a game built from the ground up by someone with the skill and talent for color useage.

Pyron
04-02-2018, 09:10 AM
Not so much, SF alpha uses high contrast bg with alot of nearest colors shades and difusion, also the chars dosen't uses much colors like SF2..
Ryu kimono for example you can do only with 3 colors, skin with 4 colors... cartoon style make the things easier for MD
so you can use 12 colors for each char and left 3 colors to ui on each pallete, in total gonna be 6 colors to ui (much more than the majority of the games
and 12 colors for each char and 31 colors to bkg.. on my tests on paint shop pro of course you gonna loose detail but the result are very good.

And SF2 on MD its only a good example of fighting engine, grafics and sounds not so much... not for technical limitation but for the bad and lame work of capcom artists

*EDT:
Ryu with 12 colors like i said before with md pallete
https://i.imgur.com/BxjfQEK.png
https://i.imgur.com/jjcpbHV.png

2 stage converted (fast edit w/o manual refinement)to 32/ 31 colors w/o dither more things than the original
https://i.imgur.com/dh3IGdt.gif
https://i.imgur.com/xRkxOcX.gif

Sik
04-02-2018, 12:13 PM
Characters are not an issue, the original arcade machines also used 16 colors per palette after all. The issue is the backgrounds (which are normally stuck to two palettes on MD but get a lot more on other systems).

I suppose the focus should go to the backgrounds unless you also want to sacrifice colors from the character palettes for other purposes (HUD?). Though remember that the character palettes not only need to hold the colors for the characters but also for their projectiles.

Pyron
04-02-2018, 12:52 PM
I suppose the focus should go to the backgrounds unless you also want to sacrifice colors from the character palettes for other purposes (HUD?). Though remember that the character palettes not only need to hold the colors for the characters but also for their projectiles.

The focus its the BG, like a said in my method i used full 2 palletes to BG w/o sacrifice them to UI or anothers sprites like the majority of MD games. The bg's on CPS 2 game uses more than 200 colors in general so we need put more colors on them to increase detail overall.

About chars choices, is not sacrifice, its a better use of the resourcers, compare my version with the original:
https://i.imgur.com/Ca0qkdC.png

The detail is amost the same and in the original SF2 even using 15 colors full pallete to match the arcade the result is far from near of it.
Is not the number of colors is how use them.

Also the "HUD" is not only interface, but the effects, blood and special attacks.
So you get 6 colors to this is enought to do everything, 3 shades of blue and 3 shades yelow/red elements, you do all w/o problems like the original SF on MD.

And you dosen't need use the char pallete to special effects, SF2 and FF uses the BG pallete to do this, for a different sprite / element i can set any pallete without problems. Take for example SSf2, Ken fire shoryuken its just a sprite set over priorite above ken normal shoryuken sprite using interface bg color to fire effect, guile sonic boom do the same.. and etc..

the pallets of the characters must be mounted on each round, like a beat up game.

matteus
04-04-2018, 07:20 AM
Maybe we can create a mock-up rom at some point Pyron as a proof of concept.

Pyron
04-04-2018, 05:20 PM
Maybe we can create a mock-up rom at some point Pyron as a proof of concept.

Will be cool!

Pyron
04-09-2018, 01:32 PM
Maybe we can create a mock-up rom at some point Pyron as a proof of concept.

i did one fast test here for curiosity..
https://i.imgur.com/HXwu6bd.png

Each char using 12 colors, interface / effects 6 colors, bkg 32 colors.

The key is know how split layer 1 and 2 on each stage to adpat and use well the colors pallete

Kanon
04-09-2018, 01:51 PM
i did one fast test here for curiosity..
https://i.imgur.com/HXwu6bd.png

Each char using 12 colors, interface / effects 6 colors, bkg 32 colors.

Cool!


The key is know how split layer 1 and 2 on each stage to adpat and use well the colors pallete
If parallax scrolling is ditched and the whole bg treated as just one plane, it should be easy, I think it's the kind of trick used in Toy Story for 31 colors (one plane has half of the image, 15 colors, with trasparent color where the second plane has the other 15 color, plus background). That should get the more colorful stages, with no parallax. If parallax is a must (I like it) then, it's a matter of working on each stage to place the colors in the best possible way (or use dynamic tiles?)

patmanqc
02-04-2019, 12:15 AM
I would love to see it

EPSYLON EAGLE
02-05-2019, 09:18 PM
The crazy chinese bootleg Top Fighter 2000, has one Alpha Ryu like character.

1:51

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DofIg_VeXyQ

Not bad at all!

gamevet
02-05-2019, 09:55 PM
Street Fighter Alpha 2 on the SNES had stripped down music, because of all the sprite data taking up the cart space. I'd say that it had a hard time doing the Alpha franchise as well. What was the size of that Alpha 2 cart, 40 megs?
-vkJ8_tbRkc

Sik
02-05-2019, 10:18 PM
I think the SPC may have been a problem actually, the reason why the game halts for a few seconds at the beginning and end of each fight is because it's too busy loading data into the SPC memory (the announcer voices seem to not fit alongside the music).

No, it has nothing to do with the decompression chip (that one does its thing on the fly faster than the SNES can transfer the graphics).

gamevet
02-05-2019, 11:40 PM
Yeah, but the music is so stripped that it sounds horrible. Super Street Fighter II had music and sound effects that were pretty faithful to the arcade game, while Alpha 2 just doesn't deliver.

Black_Tiger
02-06-2019, 08:19 AM
Yeah, but the music is so stripped that it sounds horrible. Super Street Fighter II had music and sound effects that were pretty faithful to the arcade game, while Alpha 2 just doesn't deliver.

That's what people say about the difference in music between the two Genesis SFII games. It doesn't mean that the Genesis can't handle 40 meg roms. No games push hardware to the limit and certainly not every game.

Pyron
02-06-2019, 01:59 PM
SFA2 on the snes had good percusion instruments and for the first time good sfx thats resembles the arcade,
the problem consist in accords instruments like guitar and etc..

SFA2 uses alot of qsound capabilities to bring this on new generation to cps2 games
is too much to fit on samples on cartigdes of snes game.

Even the CPS1 can't handle this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4unbFJwASA

gamevet
02-06-2019, 03:14 PM
The brass sections are completely gone and have been replaced by what sounds like a gazoo. I appreciate that Capcom got such fine voice samples on the SNES version, but I would have rather liked Street Fighter 2 sample quality, so that they could have had much better music.

Not that it really matters to me. I have the excellent Alpha 2 on Saturn.




That's what people say about the difference in music between the two Genesis SFII games. It doesn't mean that the Genesis can't handle 40 meg roms. No games push hardware to the limit and certainly not every game.

That’s 40 Megs of compressed data on the cart. The cart has a co-processor just to decompress (sprite data)the files. The SNES also uses compressed files within the SPC700 sound chip. The SNES cart was $79, because of the ROM size and co-processor. The cart ROM would be even larger on the Genesis, because none of the sound samples could be compressed, unless they had a co-processor in the cart to do so, and that would have probably meant even longer load times for the Genesis.

Edit* That decompression chip was owned by Nintendo, so who knows what SEGA would have used.

Flygon
02-06-2019, 06:05 PM
The Z80 can decompress compressed samples, y'know. :P

gamevet
02-06-2019, 06:40 PM
True!

It would still be cost prohibitive for both consoles. $80 for a gimped version wouldn’t fly with me. I’m surprised Nintendo even attempted the SNES version.

netpredakonn
02-07-2019, 06:34 AM
True!

It would still be cost prohibitive for both consoles. $80 for a gimped version wouldn’t fly with me. I’m surprised Nintendo even attempted the SNES version.

I'm pretty sure the Genesis could have handled a decent port without any extra chips. Even the SNES didn't actually needed it if they had used a bigger ROM. Remember that Super Street Fighter II already used a 40 MB cart 2 years earlier than the SFA II SNES cart.

Sik
02-07-2019, 07:54 AM
I mean, the blame should go to Capcom if anything, Nintendo only gave them the license :​v Also the N64 was only out in Japan at the time when the SNES version came out (and it's even possible that Capcom didn't have access to N64 devkits when the porting started). Also I wouldn't be surprised if the coprocessor is there mainly to thwart the copiers from Hong Kong that were prevalent at the time (as they obviously wouldn't be able to run the game if the coprocessor isn't present).

Better question: whatever happened to Street Fighter Alpha 1? I never got why 2 was ported to SNES but 1 wasn't…

Pyron
02-07-2019, 09:25 AM
In my opinion is not fair blame capcom..
They supported the plataform until the end and SFA2 port is far more impressive than the others SF games on the system
if you look at the challenge to adpat it and the results are very impressive, and the game plays well
This time they keep the arcade intro but cut all the endings, sadly.

About port Alpha 2 instead of 1, i think that aplha 2 was very popular at the time on arcades and on 32 bit systems
the challenge will be the same in port each version, so.. they decided go to alpha 2 because is more easier to capitalize money on it

Pyron
02-07-2019, 09:37 AM
In the case that Alpha series has been ported to MD.. this guy did a great work with the music


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUUBIOwzOGU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP0jHv39XBQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsvhvRoggs0&t

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq05A9Vte0w

gamevet
02-07-2019, 10:30 AM
Those sound awesome, but you have to wonder what would have to be sacrificed once voices and other sound effects are included.



I'm pretty sure the Genesis could have handled a decent port without any extra chips. Even the SNES didn't actually needed it if they had used a bigger ROM. Remember that Super Street Fighter II already used a 40 MB cart 2 years earlier than the SFA II SNES cart.


Yes, but it was compressed sprite data. The sprites were decompressed by Nintendo’s S-DD1 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_NES_enhancement_chips#S-DD1).All of the games loading times had more to do with feeding the 512 kilo-bits of sound to the SPC700, while the co-processor fed sprite data on the fly to the game. It would have been a massive cart without it, and the way the game would have played would have been much different.

moon
02-08-2019, 03:44 PM
would a stock megadrive be able to handle street fighter alpha and if one had the time inclination and know-how would a decent port of alpha 1 be possible?

Basically yes, but it depends a bit on what you consider a "decent port". As mentioned previously, you'd have to re-work all the graphics* ... of which the colors in particular will take a bit of a hit. For example, the default arctic-white costume of Ryu can't be represented ( without heavy dithering ) on the Genesis without looking like cotton-candy, so you'd have to be prepared to take some liberties .. and go classic white for instance ;)

*Of course you could also use the 32-cell mode to mimic the SNES resolution, but where's the fun in that.

https://i.imgur.com/CqULl68.png https://i.imgur.com/TcqpZBz.png https://i.imgur.com/MXuTb5b.png

https://i.imgur.com/0Entfu0.png https://i.imgur.com/pd4cJIn.png


would these games be better suited to the 32x's bigger color palette and more horse power?

It would help, but maybe not as much as you'd think. The most lightweight video mode of the 32X uses twice as much data per pixel than the Genesis and there's no hardware support for sprites ( you need to blit everything to a frame-buffer ), so there's significantly more processing involved. You'd probably still need to do some of the parallax-scrolling background layers on the Genesis ( just like Kolibri ) to limit the fill-rate.

Black_Tiger
02-08-2019, 04:59 PM
There's no reason to dither player sprites in a Mega Drive street fighting game. Especially something like SFA, which has more of a cel shaded look than traditional CPS1 games.

Dithering would ruin the sprites and be much more different than any shade in the MD palette. Texturing could potentially be beneficial in something like a Mortal Kombat port, but Alpha games are some of the friendliest fighting games for Mega Drive hardware.

Pyron
02-08-2019, 05:28 PM
MD

https://i.imgur.com/XIfcVgC.png

*obs: Aspect correction are done by macbee, nice job

Pyron
02-08-2019, 06:42 PM
Sagat MD
https://i.imgur.com/qD3BWl4.png

Pyron
02-08-2019, 07:05 PM
sodom MD

https://i.imgur.com/pyi15eT.png

SFA series looks much more cooler on MD hardware than regular SF

moon
02-08-2019, 07:20 PM
That's one strange palette representation you're using ( 0,32,64,96,128,160,192,224 ) .. are there any emulators that actually use that palette? It feels like a image that's meant to be fed to a converter ( maybe )? Anyway, if you'd convert it to the hardware color levels (http://gendev.spritesmind.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2188) it looks like this ..

https://i.imgur.com/cvre8ML.png

And i agree that Alpha looks way cooler than good-ol' "regular" Street Fighter II :)

Pyron
02-08-2019, 07:29 PM
That's one strange palette representation you're using ( 0,32,64,96,128,160,192,224 ) .. are there any emulators that actually use that palette? It feels like a image that's meant to be fed to a converter ( maybe )? Anyway, if you'd convert it to the hardware color levels (http://gendev.spritesmind.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2188) it looks like this ..

https://i.imgur.com/cvre8ML.png

And i agree that Alpha looks way cooler than good-ol' "regular" Street Fighter II :)

nope, i'm using actual hardware vdp colors, has it can have some minor differences because when i upload the image it suffers degradation

moon
02-08-2019, 07:34 PM
i'm using actual hardware vdp colors

What hardware model are you using? I've never seen a Genesis that uses a completely linear color-ramp ranging from 0 to 224 ( 0,32,64,96,128,160,192,224 ) :cool:

Pyron
02-09-2019, 12:53 PM
What hardware model are you using? I've never seen a Genesis that uses a completely linear color-ramp ranging from 0 to 224 ( 0,32,64,96,128,160,192,224 ) :cool:

This is because there is a difference in the value you measure using the oscilloscope, and the value you write in the cram.

moon
02-09-2019, 03:50 PM
This is because there is a difference in the value you measure using the oscilloscope, and the value you write in the cram.

Personally i think it makes more sense to represent the converted images as they would appear on the hardware .. but OK. Not saying that going with "classic white" is superior to "candy" colored either ( both are a ways off the original ), that's just a artistic choice.

https://i.imgur.com/4GMvXVo.png

Black_Tiger
02-09-2019, 06:18 PM
Dithered won't appear like that on real hardware.

Pyron
02-10-2019, 08:09 AM
Personally i think it makes more sense to represent the converted images as they would appear on the hardware .. but OK.
You just can't represent it here, by several factors.
- What output your MD is running? comp, svideo, rgb, rgb converted do YCBCR ?
- Your windows or linux setup uses what Srgb profile?
- Your monitor is profissional and uses all RGB and Adobe color space?
- Did you know what the color temp that's MD hardware uses?
- Do you are testing your MD on a consumer TV or Profissional Monitor?

So you can't say that you are displaying the colors excalty as the hardware,
also the "candy" color or gray white in your representation is exaggerated.

Pyron
02-10-2019, 08:33 AM
Zangief
https://i.imgur.com/WIOqWBr.png

My curiosity about how the characters would perform ends here = D

Pyron
02-11-2019, 06:15 AM
Maybe will be more cooler port the first darkstalkers to MD than SFA

https://i.imgur.com/L8Fdf2A.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/NjUPqNi.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/7eXGKCP.png

NeoVamp
02-11-2019, 04:59 PM
Okay I've seen enough, this all looks way too awesome to never happen. we have to act now.

I suggest we kidnap a good coder/dev whatever and hold him in a basement and force him to reverse engineer the Genesis SF2 rom into something we can use.
Then and only then will we let him go.

Okay who are we gonna kidnap? Steff? TmEE?

Pyron
02-12-2019, 05:59 AM
Okay I've seen enough, this all looks way too awesome to never happen. we have to act now.

I suggest we kidnap a good coder/dev whatever and hold him in a basement and force him to reverse engineer the Genesis SF2 rom into something we can use.
Then and only then will we let him go.

Okay who are we gonna kidnap? Steff? TmEE?

Our firend @tryphon some time ago post this video showing 4 ryus alpha sprite on the screen..

https://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x53w5vl

Hes doing Shinobi right now, but if the others genius guys want to help him to finish i guess that hes gonna accept.

Mauro Flores
09-16-2019, 11:45 PM
I could do that if someone send me converted arts and musics!

Joe Redifer
09-17-2019, 12:44 AM
The Genesis can so Street Fighter Alpha (or any other game on the planet) the same way it can do Virtua Fighter 2.... with liberties taken.

zyrobs
09-17-2019, 01:04 AM
The Genesis can so Street Fighter Alpha (or any other game on the planet) the same way it can do Virtua Fighter 2.... with liberties taken.

Hey, if SF Alpha can run on a Famicom in the form on bootlegs, then it surely can run on the Megadrive.

matteus
09-17-2019, 04:35 AM
The Genesis can so Street Fighter Alpha (or any other game on the planet) the same way it can do Virtua Fighter 2.... with liberties taken.

Precisely with the right artist and programmer Alpha really wouldn't be that taxing on the system! The only issue I see is the 32MEG limit.

Joe Redifer
09-17-2019, 07:45 AM
Make it one stage only. One character only. No opponent.

matteus
09-17-2019, 08:07 AM
Make it one stage only. One character only. No opponent.

🤣 It'll still be playable right Joe?

chilled
09-17-2019, 01:18 PM
You could just go right and kick.

Using the SSF2 mapper you could also jump and maybe jumpkick. That is the limit of Blast Processing

EPSYLON EAGLE
09-17-2019, 07:09 PM
I could do that if someone send me converted arts and musics!

Someone please send the game assets to this guy!

BrianC
10-09-2019, 10:50 PM
SFA1 was ported to the GBC with a surprising amount of animations and content intact.

GohanX
10-10-2019, 09:50 AM
That GBC port was surprisingly fun to play as well.

NeoVamp
10-10-2019, 01:11 PM
Someone please send the game assets to this guy!

If someone can find a good collection of SFA1/2/3 background rips (arcade, not snes!) then I'll give it a go and see what I (and others) can come up with.

vash999
10-26-2019, 11:00 PM
I found a fórum that a programmer make a demo :
http://gendev.spritesmind.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3100

Oruam
11-25-2019, 05:22 PM
I have told that I could do that.


https://youtu.be/pckIgvS_Yr8

Black_Tiger
11-25-2019, 10:12 PM
I have told that I could do that.


https://youtu.be/pckIgvS_Yr8

That's Street Fighter, not SFA. Backgrounds are cool though.

Oruam
11-27-2019, 03:24 PM
The camera system and also the six buttons mechanics are look like SF2, it because SF series after SF2 uses close engines.
To become it sample into a pure SFA I just need change the sprites and use the super bar and combos system that I have written in the GFE1.

evilevoix
12-03-2019, 10:07 AM
Let's get a 32X version going!