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View Full Version : ToeJam & Earl 3 Dreamcast beta



Pulstar
10-23-2013, 01:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0w9X-_iipQ

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/10/23/dreamcast-version-toejam-earl-3-found-may-released

Interesting.. the beta release scene has been quiet for some time, so this might spice things up.

Raja
10-23-2013, 02:24 PM
The voices are: TERRIBLE (anyone else laugh when he said.. 'Mmmmm homemade fried chicken'?)

What the hell did they do to ToeJam & Earl's voices? Oh wait the same terrible voice actors they used in that 2002 monstrosity on Xbox. I prefer the much more cartoony and non-3d Genesis versions.

The boogieman in TJ&E is one of the best enemies in any game ever and they ruined it.... The first game has a certain humor to it that is kind of ruined with stupid urban voiceovers. The enemies in general are also really lame versions of the original ones. Did this include the magician, opera lady, crazy mutant mailbox, or the present stealing santa clause?

I think this game is best with hand drawn art and a very acute sense of humor with the stylistic 'funk or urban' stylings done in a way that is tasteful - unfortunately this and its future Xbox game seemed to miss this point.

sheath
10-23-2013, 03:24 PM
Yes! I loved the Xbox game, always wanted to see what it looked like on Dreamcast!

NeoVamp
10-23-2013, 03:57 PM
What I hated about the third game is that the game is presented like these characters are something you are supposed to consider cool,
Kind of like what they did with Sonic, first he saves the animals, then he has to be marketed as this uber cool guy!
And just like with Sonic's change they failed.

So we went from this lovable duo :

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XIEAjX6RDXM/ULmdvDOrKPI/AAAAAAAAS0o/wrRdCnBhpac/s1600/toe+jam+and+earl.jpeg

To this ridiculous trio :

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/6/65300/1183734-toejam_latisha_earl.jpg

I still remember the first time I booted up the 3rd game on my xbox, and we see Latisha being all "OH NO YOU DIDAAAAAAANT!!"

I.. turned it off right away, I later tried to play it a bit but it was just too stupid, Its a stupid game that you should play knowing its stupid,
but when you play it its like the game really thinks its being hip and people will see these characters as something to identify with.

I love the first two games, and I see how TJ&E are supposed to have this early 90's hiphop style,
But they didn't take themselves seriously back then, so it wasn't a problem to me.

But with the third game I'm honestly surprised they didn't give them guns and have them talking about fucking bitches.

bleh.


Edit : Shame it was never released on Dreamcast though, Sega really needed to show itself off as this company that also had
memorable characters of its own, where Nintendo embraced Metroid and Zelda and Kirby and Mario, Sega seemed to forget
that customers needed to be able to identify with the line of games they liked.

Not that TJ&E3 was a very likable game. :p

Yharnamresident
10-23-2013, 04:04 PM
The graphics are pretty good. They look very 6th-generation oriented.

Raja
10-23-2013, 04:15 PM
Yes! I loved the Xbox game, always wanted to see what it looked like on Dreamcast!

Really? I mean we all have our opinions I just kind of found it... I don't know...filled with forced 'tude as Joe would say.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SWhhPWyWCv0

As NeoVamp said the characters are not likable when they act like stereotypes.

sheath
10-23-2013, 04:52 PM
It seemed to me at the time (http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/TJandEIII.htm) that people obsessed with hip hop culture or whatever found it not hip enough. I looked at it as a 3D recreation of the original and was not disappointed. I honestly don't care about stereotypes, games are full of them. The original games were probably only limited by ROM from acting and looking very similar to the 3D ones.

Lan Di
10-23-2013, 05:27 PM
Really? I mean we all have our opinions I just kind of found it... I don't know...filled with forced 'tude as Joe would say.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=SWhhPWyWCv0



That is a very funny video. The thing is though that 37 second video says a hell of alot about the dysfunction and underlying agenda of Hollywood/mass media.



BTW, I always despised this commercial. You would never see any other ethnicity behave like a complete buffoon while exploiting illiteracy just to get a dollar, or like good and wholesome Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid put it "The Nego Dialect" (www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/09/harry-reid-negro-comment-_n_417406.html). As if that's the way blacks are supposed to speak.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_m_7bBUqaM

Raja
10-23-2013, 06:53 PM
It says a lot about the game that it felt it had to go there so yes I agree with what you are saying in general. The original TJ&E and Panic on Funkotron! have that vibe but its done in a coherent and tactful manner. That added Latisha character is :confused:.

The Jackal
10-23-2013, 10:04 PM
This has not been released to the public yet, a group of people are trying to raise money to buy it from the guy who owns it; really don't see why he can't just dump the game, but I guess what's the worth ($$$) in that? Shame.

T&J3 on the Original XB was a mess of a game. I still haven't gone back to it after turning off after just 5 mins play.

NeoVamp
10-23-2013, 11:43 PM
really don't see why he can't just dump the game


Money money money, it has ruined businesses, people, families, friendships, love.. everything.

One has to see the humor in paying for a beta of a shitty game though.

sheath
10-24-2013, 12:44 AM
Yep, still waiting for somebody to actually describe how TJ&E 3 is a bad game by any means. It has been what, ten years, and all people can complain about is the satirical characters. I find Jak & Daxter and Racket and Clank cliche and derivative, but I would not call them bad games even though I can't play them for over one minute. Same goes for Conker's Bad Fur Day, except I can actually point to game breaking flaws in that game, particularly the Xbox remake.

Also, TJ&E 3 is nothing like those games, we don't have many, or any, 3D Rouge Like games out there. Thanks to this group I actually have a tangible description of why TJ&E and TJ&E 3 aren't just 3D fetch quests. It really annoys me when people say they can't play a game, but cannot explain why. When I see it about most of Sega's post Dreamcast, pre-2007, games all I can think of is ...
http://www.gamepilgrimage.com/sites/default/files/Miscmovies/PS2Lover_Circa_2002-2005.png

TrekkiesUnite118
10-24-2013, 02:31 AM
What does GTA and Madden have to do with PS2 fans specifically? Those are multi-platform titles and the GTA titles are actually fun and enjoyable games. Metal Gear Solid 2 were also multi-platform.

Seriously, what kind of point are you actually trying to make there. Aside from the Madden titles the rest of the games you put in that image are actually great games, yet it looks like you are trying to convey a message that anyone who likes those games are some kind of PS2 tool/fanboy and that their opinion shouldn't matter. Just because someone likes a game like Kingdom Hearts or God of War more than Toejam and Earl 3 doesn't mean their opinion is invalid or less meaningful than yours.

Semmie
10-24-2013, 03:35 PM
the dude is a bitch for asking money for the beta. if he has it than just give it.
i still wait for soul reaver 2 which has been rumored that it was a finished game

Da_Shocker
10-24-2013, 05:43 PM
I have actually never played any TJ&E games in my entire life. I do wonder why Sega never bothered to put any of those games on the SCD, it could've been a real system seller. But aren't these games on the Genesis kinda pricey?

retrospiel
10-24-2013, 06:32 PM
I do wonder why Sega never bothered to put any of those games on the SCD, it could've been a real system seller.

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/24267429/2/stock-illustration-24267429-pig-business.jpg "No, FMV all the way, and maybe a handful of straight cartridge to CD conversions, THAT's how we sell this thing my friend."



...personally I like those straight CD conversions a lot and I wish they'd have done more of them, but yeah, not exactly the most creative way to sell a CD drive.

The Jackal
10-24-2013, 08:08 PM
Yep, still waiting for somebody to actually describe how TJ&E 3 is a bad game by any means.


It didn't feel like T&E to me. The game just throws you into an empty hub to wander in, with the occasional enemy or object to interact with, and just didn't make me feel like pushing on. Maybe I was harsh with it, but from what I've seen in gameplay videos, it doesn't look like it gets any better.

I would give another go, but I don't feel compelled to.The game bored me to tears is what I'm saying.

tim333
10-24-2013, 08:38 PM
I didn't have such a bad time with the game. Maybe it's because I came to it long after the release. In the words of this thread, I treated it as a stupid game you play while knowing it's stupid and a sort of 3D take on the original game.

The hubs were lame and unnecessary and they were, as I recall, pressured into putting them in by the publisher for some reason. I think that's why anyone is interested in this beta: doesn't have them.

cabear
10-25-2013, 01:35 AM
i don't know, looks like a 3d TJ & E to me. The voices are pretty lame, but i was never a huge tj & e fan, i never "got" the game. i knew to look for the spaceship parts but it just seemed to drag.

I do wish sega did more updated versions of their IPs, they had a bunch of great titles that would have really helped sell their systems in the past.

sheath
10-25-2013, 10:31 AM
The original TJ&E is all about exploration and uncovering hidden areas for points. You are supposed to completely expose every block on the map by walking, hopping, flying, rocketing, running or whatever else through them. Meanwhile you are also looking for the space ship part, presents (while avoiding the randomizer), money and food and avoiding enemies.

Then it is about humor, or rather the game uses humor to try to get you into the game. Most of the humor is making fun of humans but also satirical 90s 'tude and Rap culture (or whatever) and slap stick. None of it is supposed to be taken seriously, which is why I found it so absurd when all of the reviews critiqued the "hip hop" representation of TJ&E 3. I'd love to see these people describe Blazing Saddles.

NostalgicMachine
10-25-2013, 07:49 PM
Panic on Funkotron, or get the funk out.

NeoVamp
10-25-2013, 09:23 PM
Most of the humor is making fun of humans but also satirical 90s 'tude and Rap culture (or whatever) and slap stick. None of it is supposed to be taken seriously


when all of the reviews critiqued the "hip hop" representation of TJ&E 3.


But that was the main problem with the third game, they started taking themselves seriously!
TJ&E1&2 was supposed to be a parody of that time, where we'd see Saved By The Bell do a Hip Hip Christmas because it was cool.
but TJ&E was a mockery of that and humanity as a whole, yet then we got the third game, and they were all like this..

wkGXyQG8-as

Yo Yo I'm Earl I'm Chilling!

no.. no you're not, you're not even parodying anymore.

Unless there's a hidden deeper meaning here.. where they are saying rap in general is a joke so we don't even need to parody it..

YO YO HERE'S MAH GIRL LATISHA HERE!

OH NO YOU DIDDANT TOEJAM!

Horrible game, just horrible.

cabear
10-26-2013, 02:04 AM
Wow that's bad. was latisha necessary??

I may give the first tj & e a shot. Gotta track down the controls first. Part 2 was the side scroller right?

NostalgicMachine
10-26-2013, 05:46 AM
Wow that's bad. was latisha necessary??

I may give the first tj & e a shot. Gotta track down the controls first. Part 2 was the side scroller right?

The first TJ & E is an easter egg hunt, and the second (Panic on Funkotron) is a kick ass side scolling platformer.

I highly suggest playing both.

sheath
10-26-2013, 10:07 AM
Wow that's bad. was latisha necessary??

I may give the first tj & e a shot. Gotta track down the controls first. Part 2 was the side scroller right?

Latisha warmed up on me too. When she gets hit by the country singer she sings "I'm a little bit country..." and then says "oh mah gawd". It makes me laugh thinking about it. I'd say on the Xbox version she is way less over the top satire wise than TJ&E are. That's not counting the "gospel singers" in the load screens.

j_factor
10-26-2013, 11:30 AM
But that was the main problem with the third game, they started taking themselves seriously!

I must be missing something, because I don't think they're taking themselves seriously.

I also appreciated how they pretty much kept their style and references to the original time period, instead of trying to update them for the new millennium.

I will say that it would have been a better game without some of the unnecessary extra levels and minigames. And the hub world is unnecessary. But they're not that bad. From what Greg Johnson has said, those aspects of the game were added when it was moved to Xbox. So I think it would've been better on DC.


Horrible game, just horrible.

Really not seeing that. The voices aren't great, and the gospel choir is awful. But even if you absolutely detest the voice acting and script and characters... That doesn't make it a bad game. It's not an FMV game.

kool kitty89
10-27-2013, 05:30 AM
Latisha warmed up on me too. When she gets hit by the country singer she sings "I'm a little bit country..." and then says "oh mah gawd". It makes me laugh thinking about it. I'd say on the Xbox version she is way less over the top satire wise than TJ&E are. That's not counting the "gospel singers" in the load screens.
I never owned it, but a friend did and I played it a fair bit back then with him (which is pretty much how all my xbox gaming went at the time :p).

It has kind of a BUG! feel to it in terms of the style/tone overall IMO. Yeah, it'd different from the Genesis games and it's not over the top and satrical in the same ways, but I still got that over the top and humor/satire vibe to it overall, just not as overt. (which itself could have been unlikably obnoxious, especially with 3D animation, cutscenes, and -especially- voice acting taken into account -voice in particular is so easy to screw up)



What I hated about the third game is that the game is presented like these characters are something you are supposed to consider cool,
Kind of like what they did with Sonic, first he saves the animals, then he has to be marketed as this uber cool guy!
And just like with Sonic's change they failed.
Sonic was always like that . . . or close to it. If not in 1991, certainly by 1993. Unless you totally ignored all the promotional material, media, and hype from Sega at the time and only looked at the games themselves. (then it was more ambigious)

Growing up without a genesis, but totally exposed to all the Sega/Sonic media hype of the early 90s, and the TV shows, and later on some of the PC ports, that's always the feeling I got with Sonic.
Maybe that's why Sonic Adventure 2 never felt "off" to me. (which I played before Sonic Adventure, both in their Game Cube incarnations -still being mostly Nintendo/PC at home at the time)







"No, FMV all the way, and maybe a handful of straight cartridge to CD conversions, THAT's how we sell this thing my friend."

...personally I like those straight CD conversions a lot and I wish they'd have done more of them, but yeah, not exactly the most creative way to sell a CD drive.
It certainly didn't help that SoJ barely supported the system . . . or that the majority of great 1st/2nd party MD games were tied to SoJ too (so pretty well out of SoA's hands to get "quickly" ported over to the CD).

And realistically, you've got to remember it wouldn't have just been a matter of "spend more on normal game development for the CD" vs the money they spent on FMV games, but a matter of resources and timescale . . . to push out that many cart based games reworked (let alone enhanced) for the CD would have needed a great expansion of internal programming/software development staff and/or securing lots of outsourced programming talent with reliable consistency, and GOOD programmers (or good enough to cope with learning the hardware and the process of reprogramming games in a reasonable timescale), and then managing to do all that without excessive bloat to their infrastructure. (something that already did happen to a pretty heavy degree withn the likes of STI in the mid 90s)

There's the very lack of such software from Japan (including Japanese 3rd parties for that matter) likely had some impact on SoA's excitement over FMV . . . with a system lacking killer software at the time, and lacking any kind of solid software model from Japan to inspire them, they went for the multimedia gimmick, and given the boig spur from DIgital Pictures, a rather narrow strain of multimedia as well. (and for the record, SoA did port over and/or make sequels of their internally developed cart games to CD)
And without changing the situation in Japan, that whole software development infrastruction resource issue is considerably worse. (trying to make do with SoA/SoE resources alone)

With the Japanese end like that, getting into that sort of trap was pretty easy, and there's probably plenty of other situations that could have been similar aside from FMV (ie other narrow gimmcks that could have been compelling, but not really lasting). Best case would have been the more metered and thoughtful (both conservative and innovative) approach of actually looking elsewhere on the market for inspiration, and given we're talking about western development and the general nature of the Sega CD, the home computer/PC game market would have made a ton of sense. (combining SoA's limited but growing experience on console game making with inspiration for what the PC game world was doing in the early 90s could have been really neat, proably hit and miss at times in terms of both quality and marketability, but a lot more potential than most of what they did do)

That, and taking a more hands off approach by doing less development internally and focusing more on licensing PC titles and attracting PC publishers to the CD might have worked quite well. (and saved a lot on development costs -even with less FMV, they still could have blown a ton of money on internal game development that could have often fallen short of been redundant with contemporary PC games which otherwise weren't getting console releases, but merited it)


Hell, if they'd just done a burst of FMV in 1992 for the launch, but then taken a step back before heavily investing in it further (allowing 3rd parties to do that on their own, with other investors if the interest was there) probably would have made a ton of sense too. Night Trap and Sewer Shark were old productions, shelved vaporware that could be fairly quickly repurposed for interesting new content, but going beyond that (with Sega's own funds) and that style of multimedia specifically is where they really started to stray from the true potential.

Had Japan supported it better in general, there'd obviously be a ton more variables to consider though. :p (let alone if the thing got popular in Japan on the level of the PCE CD)

Greg2600
11-04-2013, 09:12 PM
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?47966-Toejam-amp-Earl-3-Dreamcast-Beta


Hi Everyone!,

Question : Whoa, where did the whole post go ?!
Answer :
I've temporarily taken the original post offline so I and Greg Johnson can ask Sega if it's okay to release this beta to the public.
Hopefully I/we can get it approved so that there are no legal issues anymore, no risks of getting this taken down or that I get into trouble so that everyone can enjoy this beta.

I hope that I know more in a few weeks :)
-ZakHooiTM

In a strange move, the owner of the Toe Jam & Earl Dreamcast BETA has decided to hold off on the public free release, in order to get SEGA's permission. From what he's been writing, I think he got in contact with Toe Jam creator and IP-holder Greg Johnson, and I have the feeling Johnson may have wished them to get SEGA's go ahead. While I hope differently, quite honestly I cannot imagine SEGA coming back with a positive response.

sheath
11-11-2013, 12:36 PM
Modern Sega will probably shut it down without even considering that they haven't even looked at the IP in over ten years and completely failed to market the competently designed Xbox game.

NeoVamp
11-11-2013, 01:13 PM
in order to get SEGA's permission.

Translation : I made a mistake, I want to make money of this in the future so I'll "accidentally" shoot myself in the foot now by asking Sega if its okay to release it.

Vector2013
11-12-2013, 01:58 AM
This has not been released to the public yet, a group of people are trying to raise money to buy it from the guy who owns it; really don't see why he can't just dump the game, but I guess what's the worth ($$$) in that? Shame.



Page 4 to 7

http://dreamcast-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5840&start=30

maxi
11-12-2013, 07:06 AM
Translation : I made a mistake, I want to make money of this in the future so I'll "accidentally" shoot myself in the foot now by asking Sega if its okay to release it.

The same thing I thought.

IrishNinja
11-20-2013, 05:04 AM
Modern Sega will probably shut it down without even considering that they haven't even looked at the IP in over ten years and completely failed to market the competently designed Xbox game.


Translation : I made a mistake, I want to make money of this in the future so I'll "accidentally" shoot myself in the foot now by asking Sega if its okay to release it.

really hyped when i first saw this come out of assemble, but yeah, this has been my take as well. really hopnig to get to play this one day too.

Greg2600
12-24-2013, 11:27 PM
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?49322-Release-ToeJam-amp-Earl-3-Dreamcast-Beta

The Beta has been released!!! Please head to Assembler (if you have an account) and thank the owner directly! Deserves a lot of credit for A)releasing it free and B)getting it to work on regular DC's. He's also asking anyone who wants to thank him monetarily to donate to a school for special needs children in California.

Merry Christmas!

IrishNinja
12-25-2013, 02:06 AM
shit yeah!!! gonna go thank assemble, this is awesome!

retrospiel
12-25-2013, 08:17 AM
Interview with Greg Johnson where he talks about the beta (and Toejam & Earl 2 before it was remade into a 2D platformer):

SPp3bJdrwZM

NeoVamp
12-25-2013, 11:53 AM
That was fun to watch, man I wish I was a millionaire, I'd totally hire them to make their original TJ&E2 idea into an actual Genesis game.

Greg2600
12-25-2013, 01:00 PM
Great interview, Greg Johnson seems really cool. Very supportive of his fan base.

The Jackal
12-26-2013, 08:36 PM
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?49322-Release-ToeJam-amp-Earl-3-Dreamcast-Beta

The Beta has been released!!! Please head to Assembler (if you have an account) and thank the owner directly! Deserves a lot of credit for A)releasing it free and B)getting it to work on regular DC's. He's also asking anyone who wants to thank him monetarily to donate to a school for special needs children in California.

Merry Christmas!

Awesome! This is self-bootable right, so I just burn it to a CD-R and it's good to go, no? The reason I ask, is the last time I checked up on it, they were having trouble getting around the protection on it - not sure if they cracked it or not.

Melf
01-05-2014, 01:06 AM
y0w9X-_iipQ

Bottino
01-06-2014, 10:31 PM
If you can get the game at IsoZone as well.I haven't got it yet, but a friend of mine told me that the game freezes a lot in the later stages( something normal given that this is a beta after all).

Awesome to see this finally released.A real shame that it never got completed for the Dreamcast.