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GKDAIR
03-10-2014, 01:22 AM
The Dreamcast is without a doubt my favorite system of all time.

The first time I ever played it was back in 2011, I went to a retro game store and they had a dreamcast, I was intrigued because I had never owned one as a kid, so I bought it with my birthday money, with 4 games, 2 controllers, and a VMU.

The games were: Sonic Adventure, Shenmue, Unreal Tournament, and Ready 2 Rumble Boxing 2.

I played the ever loving hell out of it, I played it more than my current systems, I slowly started getting more games, which includes one of my all time favorites, Crazy Taxi, and Phantasy Star Online.

I've now collected various accessories, including mics, light guns, keyboards, fishing poles, etc. I make sure to get different colored controllers and VMUs, and I just adore the little system.


I am not alone, many fans of the dreamcast absolutely go bonkers over the machine. There are people who get even crazier than I do.

Last Year, I made the official decision to retire from modern gaming, because I just grew fed up with the industry, and all of my money involved in gaming now goes to building up my collection of various systems.

What is it that makes the Dreamcast so, magicial, for lack of a better word?

KitsuneNight
03-10-2014, 01:44 AM
what is it about this topic that screams obvious fanboy ?

EclecticGroove
03-10-2014, 01:56 AM
It may be fanboyish, but it's also not entirely without merit.

For me it was a great system because Sega was really on their game with it.

It had (for the time) great hardware. 4 controller ports, built in networking capabilities, bigger than CD format games, a small and good looking design. It was overall a very nice package. About the only thing it lacked was dual analog controllers and built in rumble.

But beyond that, Sega put in a hell of an effort to get people excited for it. There was a whole slew of really excellent games in such a wide variety that came out for it. You had games that filled in all the standard expectations of a system (fighting, racing, platform, RPG's), and then a whole slew of pretty awesome games that were very much inspired by the "fun as hell to pick up and play" arcade legacy.
Add in some interesting experimental stuff like Seamen that showed Sega's willingness to get downright goofy but do it with quality.

So while I wouldn't say it's "magical". i will say I had many, many excellent times with the system, and it will always be remembered fondly by me. It hit a real sweet spot with what it provided, and did it pretty much from day one. Just a shame it was so eclipsed by a system that too so long to offer an experience even close to equitable.

Blades
03-10-2014, 01:56 AM
A better question would be:

What is it about Fedoras?

http://forums.watchuseek.com/attachments/f2/568669d1322767557-brown-watch-black-shirt-fedora_meme.png

FuturePrimitive
03-10-2014, 01:59 AM
The Dreamcast is magical, because it can do this:

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/310/d/b/sega_dreamcast__loading_vmu__by_blueamnesiac-d6t4sve.gif

KitsuneNight
03-10-2014, 02:00 AM
It may be fanboyish, but it's also not entirely without merit.

For me it was a great system because Sega was really on their game with it.

It had (for the time) great hardware. 4 controller ports, built in networking capabilities, bigger than CD format games, a small and good looking design. It was overall a very nice package. About the only thing it lacked was dual analog controllers and built in rumble.

But beyond that, Sega put in a hell of an effort to get people excited for it. There was a whole slew of really excellent games in such a wide variety that came out for it. You had games that filled in all the standard expectations of a system (fighting, racing, platform, RPG's), and then a whole slew of pretty awesome games that were very much inspired by the "fun as hell to pick up and play" arcade legacy.
Add in some interesting experimental stuff like Seamen that showed Sega's willingness to get downright goofy but do it with quality.

So while I wouldn't say it's "magical". i will say I had many, many excellent times with the system, and it will always be remembered fondly by me. It hit a real sweet spot with what it provided, and did it pretty much from day one. Just a shame it was so eclipsed by a system that too so long to offer an experience even close to equitable.

his threads so far have the devinitve whiff of obvious slobbering fanboy

the dreamcast was a great machine with an absolutley fantastic library but calling it magical is moving in to the realms of preposterous hyperbole ( or self delusion )

the idea of limiting your self to one console just seems so ...limiting
the library of the ps2 can give the dreamcast a run for its money and then some

no wonder this thread has the sheen of fanboy about it
its mr myopic

i had forgotten all about him
maybe he wants his annual dose of attention whoring http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?24976-A-few-words
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?24635-Sonic-at-his-best-is-better-than-Mario-IMO
...hmmm

Iron Lizard
03-10-2014, 02:38 AM
I wont deny when the Dreamcast I really thought Sega was coming back. At first it reminded me of the Christmas of 91 when kids I knew actually picked a Genesis over a SNES. There were lines out of the stores to buy it. It was like everyone had forgotton the mess of the CD/32x/ Saturn and forgiven Sega. There were all sorts of games for it that were completly original. It really felt like it was taking off and then the specter of the PS2 came and I was reminded of how fickle the public was. It was like something out of a SImpsions episode how quikley people dropped that thing. Nothing magical here just bitter disapointment sorta like this.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9gw8oLCOeQ

KitsuneNight
03-10-2014, 02:41 AM
well it had 2 ...3 good years
but thats about it and i dont think peopel ever frogave sega for the saturn and 32X debacle they were quite wary from what i recall

and the op seesm to have gone from one extreme ( myopic whining ) to another ( slobbering fanboyism )
lets see how long that will last
its an improvement

gamevet
03-10-2014, 02:59 AM
what is it about this topic that screams obvious fanboy ?

I love it because it's not an N64! :p

KitsuneNight
03-10-2014, 03:03 AM
^well we all know the dreamcast is far better then the n64 anyway ;)

gamevet
03-10-2014, 03:05 AM
^well we all know the dreamcast is far better then the n64 anyway ;)

I just had to say it after witnessing the fanatical mudslinging going on in that N64 vs. Saturn thread. ;)

sketch
03-10-2014, 03:09 AM
The Dreamcast was pure arcade gaming goodness. No console before or since has captured the high end graphical, straightforward action game feel of the arcades like the DC.

KitsuneNight
03-10-2014, 03:12 AM
I just had to say it after witnessing the fanatical mudslinging going on in that N64 vs. Saturn thread. ;)

that thread is just going in circles anyway
im tempted to interject by saying that the dreamcast is better then both of them in there

Chibisteven
03-10-2014, 03:36 AM
All good things come to end. But look at this way, there is sure to be more good things coming your way in life. The Dreamcast wasn't perfect, but I enjoy the hell out of it for the games I played the most on it. But to say it's magical is crazy. To overlook the libraries of it's competitors is crazy and fanboyish. If the Dreamcast is the only good thing in your life, I feel sorry for you because you're missing out. But if it's something like to enjoy in your spare time and have fun with and be nostalgic about, then you're doing it the right way. Again, playing it and having fun with something is good, worshipping it is bad.


6th Generation Firsts:

The PS2 was the first major console with a DVD Player and have a Toslink port for surround sound and digital audio.
The Xbox was the first major console to have a hard drive.
I don't know about the Game Cube other than it being the first Nintendo console to not use a freaking cartridge for games and actually use optical discs.
The Dreamcast was the first major console to have a modem out of the box (although other consoles had add-ons like this) and go online against millions of other players and probably the only console I've seen where the memory card was it's own subsystem that can be used for mini games on the go. The console could do 480p as well but wasn't as easy as slapping on a cable in the back, you had to get a box for it, most of the competitors did 480p when you bought a component cable for it and tweaked a few settings and plugged it in the back, although one competitor required you had the special digital out in the back to do it on theirs.

Soulis
03-10-2014, 05:01 AM
Lol @ the haters and their flamebates in this thread :D Grow up guys...

Anyway, the Dreamcast had a great good games/bad games ratio. Probably the best. Compared to other consoles there would be less shovelware. It was the first time i ever saw a home system having 3D graphics almost like the arcades. Soul Calibur was even better than the arcade too! Then again, that was a time when Sega decided to go with the cheap Naomi solution instead of an advanced arcade system ala Model 3... Anyway, for that short duration the Dreamcast was indeed magical. I knew that the PS2 was going to dethrone it eventually (in the graphics department at least) but i didn't expect such a fast death. The DC would be able to compete just fine, for a few years more at least. That sudden death was one of the most disappointing things in the industry. And maybe that's why so many people today act like this thing was the holy grail or something.

DarkDragon
03-10-2014, 05:20 AM
Seems like it came and went pretty fast. Late '99 US launch and was done in like 2 years. Very short lifespan for a console. Yes I know Sega Europe continued to support the Dreamcast until mid 2002 but Im in the US so that didnt affect me.

Guntz
03-10-2014, 05:29 AM
The Dreamcast is indeed magical. But it is so from a combination of things.

Dreamcast was the first console in the USA to really show that 3D games could not only look good, but blow our minds as well. Marketing campaigns set Sega on fire in the hearts of fans everywhere, Dreamcast truly felt like a return of Sega, the company felt as fresh and alive as they did in 1989. The Dreamcast had an astonishing 250+ library in under 2 years. The controller felt modernized like Sega's competition, Sega wised up and started developing games en masse, both new IPs and sequels to older series, some of which were unseen since the Genesis. The Dreamcast system BIOS has an iconic look and sound to it. The VMU was way ahead of its time and sort of doubled as a handheld. The Dreamcast had online capability in a time when dialup was still common. Tons of big name arcade games saw USA releases.

It's all that and much more. The Dreamcast really is a special console. Sega was firing on all cylinders in an attempt to save themselves and prove to consumers they were still relevant. Even if they failed, Dreamcast was one of their biggest successes, for all the things they finally tried to do right.

Knuckle Duster
03-10-2014, 08:02 AM
The Dreamcast is indeed magical. But it is so from a combination of things.

Dreamcast was the first console in the USA to really show that 3D games could not only look good, but blow our minds as well. Marketing campaigns set Sega on fire in the hearts of fans everywhere, Dreamcast truly felt like a return of Sega, the company felt as fresh and alive as they did in 1989. The Dreamcast had an astonishing 250+ library in under 2 years. The controller felt modernized like Sega's competition, Sega wised up and started developing games en masse, both new IPs and sequels to older series, some of which were unseen since the Genesis. The Dreamcast system BIOS has an iconic look and sound to it. The VMU was way ahead of its time and sort of doubled as a handheld. The Dreamcast had online capability in a time when dialup was still common. Tons of big name arcade games saw USA releases.

It's all that and much more. The Dreamcast really is a special console. Sega was firing on all cylinders in an attempt to save themselves and prove to consumers they were still relevant. Even if they failed, Dreamcast was one of their biggest successes, for all the things they finally tried to do right.

This honestly reads like a pretentious fart-sniffing op-ed piece by a know-it-all teenager.

You weren't even born in 1989. Please, tell us more of how the glorious stars aligned and touched our hearts with the Dreamcast, oh enlightened one. :lol:

I'm really not going to knock anyone's appreciation for these toys, but I think the whole premise of the "Magical" praises spewed in this thread is superfluous and beyond silly. It's hilarious, awful and stupid; all at the same time.

Gogogadget
03-10-2014, 08:23 AM
A better question would be:

What is it about Fedoras?

http://forums.watchuseek.com/attachments/f2/568669d1322767557-brown-watch-black-shirt-fedora_meme.png

http://i.imgur.com/VKWy2eo.png

Kamahl
03-10-2014, 08:30 AM
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/653/456/2ee.gif

midnightrider
03-10-2014, 09:41 AM
The Dreamcast was pure arcade gaming goodness. No console before or since has captured the high end graphical, straightforward action game feel of the arcades like the DC.

Yeah, but at the same time that's probably why it was kind of a good thing they were forced to leave the console market. They never seemed to outgrow the arcade-at-home thing, and the market was changing too much for that to remain viable.

The one WWF exclusive, Royal Rumble, which was a port of an arcade game, that was obviously meant to be something of an updated Wrestlefest, is a good example. I think it's a fun game, but because people were used to more alternate modes, and character creation by this point in time, it was a flop in comparison to the N64 and PS WWF games of the time.

As for my experiences with it, I must have gone through it's version of Grandia II 7 times(without random battles I can tolerate this otherwise shitty genre). Can't imagine the hours I poured into it's Fire Pro Wrestling game. JGR, Crazy Taxi, Power Stone 2, I mean I doubt I have to go on here. Has a lot of it been ported to other consoles? Sure, but the Dreamcast was where they originated, and it was the one place you could have 'em all.

Jeckidy
03-10-2014, 10:32 AM
What is sad about the DC is how most of the best games were ported to other consoles by now. Occasionally some are best in their original DC incarnation but not always. It's a good system, but it's not in my top 3 Sega consoles by any means, I don't think.

As for the 'magic': SEGA was already becoming niche amidst all their failures aside from Genesis. This meant the people who continued to support them were those who went beyond the most absolute mainstream titles, who were looking for niche stuff. This gave it more hipster appeal and even more so now that piracy gave people access of what the library really had overall.

Moirai
03-10-2014, 11:16 AM
This honestly reads like a pretentious fart-sniffing op-ed piece by a know-it-all teenager.

You weren't even born in 1989. Please, tell us more of how the glorious stars aligned and touched our hearts with the Dreamcast, oh enlightened one. :lol:

I'm really not going to knock anyone's appreciation for these toys, but I think the whole premise of the "Magical" praises spewed in this thread is superfluous and beyond silly. It's hilarious, awful and stupid; all at the same time.

You do this constantly. It's getting old. Please, if you have nothing good to say, GTFO. I'm tired of your trolling.

IrishNinja
03-10-2014, 11:22 AM
The Dreamcast was pure arcade gaming goodness. No console before or since has captured the high end graphical, straightforward action game feel of the arcades like the DC.

this is a good way to put it - gems like Jet Grind Radiooooo were the high end of arcade gameplay: risk/reward, and an absolute flow when you practiced & improved on a game's control method. even Shenmue was the ultimate simulation, after Suzuki spent nearly decades crafting that art. also, what other era sees MTV ads for something quirky like Space Channel 5?

for a short while, we were absolutely spoiled. I'm really glad i was there for it, even happier i can still enjoy its many offerings from less than 2 great years of production.

Txai
03-10-2014, 12:03 PM
I found this Dreamcast OST today by accident. Excellent music!!

s9FNDNY90b4

NeoZeedeater
03-10-2014, 12:37 PM
Sega wised up and started developing games en masse, both new IPs and sequels to older series
I don't think this is true. Sega was always about making lots of games, and making a mix of sequels and new IP. The Saturn wasn't an exception to this. If the DC did have more games in a shorter time period, it's probably because of third-parties. People tend to forget the DC's Japanese launch was pretty barren. North America had the benefit of an extra year of games at launch.

HalfBit
03-10-2014, 04:30 PM
^Capcom really went all out on dc. I think acclaim had 3 or 4 games on there.
Sega's 2nd party studios really helped.

Guntz
03-10-2014, 05:05 PM
This honestly reads like a pretentious fart-sniffing op-ed piece by a know-it-all teenager.

You weren't even born in 1989. Please, tell us more of how the glorious stars aligned and touched our hearts with the Dreamcast, oh enlightened one. :lol:

I'm really not going to knock anyone's appreciation for these toys, but I think the whole premise of the "Magical" praises spewed in this thread is superfluous and beyond silly. It's hilarious, awful and stupid; all at the same time.

Sorry, I couldn't hear you over Gaben's dick in your mouth.

OP used the word magical, so I gave a response with that word in mind.


I don't think this is true. Sega was always about making lots of games, and making a mix of sequels and new IP. The Saturn wasn't an exception to this. If the DC did have more games in a shorter time period, it's probably because of third-parties. People tend to forget the DC's Japanese launch was pretty barren. North America had the benefit of an extra year of games at launch.

After the wasteland that was the Sega CD, 32X and Saturn, the Dreamcast was a breath of fresh air. There were 1st party games on those 3 earlier systems, but bad management and squandered resources led to them being wasted potential. Look at all the great 1st and 2nd party games on Dreamcast, it was like Genesis all over again.

old man
03-11-2014, 12:54 AM
My Dreamcast is magical because it saws down and imaginary tree every time it loads from the disk.

Knuckle Duster
03-11-2014, 02:05 AM
Sorry, I couldn't hear you over Gaben's dick in your mouth.

OP used the word magical, so I gave a response with that word in mind.

PC is the next gen platform people should gravitate toward. It's powerful, open, easy to use, and even cheap now. Consoles are becoming redundant, Steam is a great service, but the whole Master Race Gaben praise is a joke. I still play console games, and only see merit in buying PS4 if any of them, if Sony money hats some decent software.


None of that matters though, we're here discussing silly platitudes over Dreamcast's greatness, and who better than the resident babies of the mid-90s to indeed sprinkle a little nostalgic fairy dust over Sega's final console failure and make claims that it feels like Sega Genesis back in 1989. Indeed. Indubitably.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Goofy_Gophers.png

p6Fdm3-dnr0

j_factor
03-11-2014, 02:51 AM
I don't think this is true. Sega was always about making lots of games, and making a mix of sequels and new IP. The Saturn wasn't an exception to this. If the DC did have more games in a shorter time period, it's probably because of third-parties. People tend to forget the DC's Japanese launch was pretty barren. North America had the benefit of an extra year of games at launch.

In terms of US releases, Dreamcast and Saturn had almost exactly the same number of titles, both being just barely shy of 250. Dreamcast did it in a shorter period of time measuring from first to last, but in terms of active lifespan they were almost the same. Similar number of releases, similar lifespan, similar third-party support -- you wouldn't know that one of these systems sold over twice as many units.

tim333
03-11-2014, 02:52 AM
The Dreamcast is a special console to me because I bought mine on eBay in 2000 from somebody who took pictures of themselves threatening it with a rifle. If it didn't sell, they swore, they were going to shoot it. I had to take action. I saved that console's life. They even threw in Skies of Arcadia for free.

I like to think that the Dreamcast is grateful to me for rescuing it. When I used it to play "Rayman 2" the other day, it whirred very loudly with happiness.

gamevet
03-11-2014, 02:56 AM
I went to a Fleetwood Mac concert about 12 years ago. Some guy had a heart attack and was getting CPR as they were rolling him out. You know your band is passed its prime when your fans are keeling over during the show.

KitsuneNight
03-11-2014, 03:13 AM
I went to a Fleetwood Mac concert about 12 years ago. Some guy had a heart attack and was getting CPR as they were rolling him out. You know your band is passed its prime when your fans are keeling over during the show.

we ie sega fans arent dropping dead yet

The Coop
03-11-2014, 03:21 AM
Personally, I don't find the DC magical at all. It's a nice system, but not SEGA's best one. I think the last time I played a game on it with any regularity was Under Defeat. I got Last Hope and beat it, but it didn't hold my attention like Under Defeat did. And the DC itself, hasn't proven to be an attention holder for me either (at least, not to the degree the SMS, Genesis and Saturn are anyway). It's not that I find it to be a bad or flawed system, because I don't. It's a good one, with plenty of good games. But for me, it just doesn't seem to have the longevity in terms of making me want to go back play the games on it. I can't exactly put my finger on why, but it doesn't.

So yeah, that's the DC's standings with me.

Splatterhouse5
03-11-2014, 05:18 AM
Personally, I don't find the DC magical at all. It's a nice system, but not SEGA's best one. I think the last time I played a game on it with any regularity was Under Defeat. I got Last Hope and beat it, but it didn't hold my attention like Under Defeat did. And the DC itself, hasn't proven to be an attention holder for me either (at least, not to the degree the SMS, Genesis and Saturn are anyway). It's not that I find it to be a bad or flawed system, because I don't. It's a good one, with plenty of good games. But for me, it just doesn't seem to have the longevity in terms of making me want to go back play the games on it. I can't exactly put my finger on why, but it doesn't.

So yeah, that's the DC's standings with me.

I feel very similarly about the DC, however, I never owned one BITD. I friend of mine bought one with Soul Calibur, Sonic Adventure, and Crazy Taxi, and I remember being very impressed with those games (SC in particular), but I wouldn't get one for myself until around 2009. In retrospect, it's weird that I didn't jump onboard when it was released, but so it was.

Getting it so late probably has everything to do with why I don't have any "magical" feelings for the system. By the time I got around to spending some meaningful time with the system (and a nice handful of it's games), I suppose I was no longer in a position to be really impressed by it.

For me, it has a "you had to have been there" kind of feel for me. There were some fun games, but it's the system I'd least want to be stuck with of that gen. I'll also say that I don't miss the use of only one analog stick

Cornelius Spunkwater
03-11-2014, 06:59 AM
I knew a handful of people who had a Dreamcast BITD, but I held out and bought a PS2.

I made the right decision.

moonwhistle
03-11-2014, 07:44 AM
I loved the Dreamcast during its active life and for a few years afterwards. Now though I find it to be a bit of a pointless curio as mostly everything that I'd want to play has superior versions on other formats. Powerstone 2 is literally the only reason why I still have one. If that ever gets ported I will say goodbye to the format.

The Coop
03-11-2014, 07:48 AM
I feel very similarly about the DC, however, I never owned one BITD. I friend of mine bought one with Soul Calibur, Sonic Adventure, and Crazy Taxi, and I remember being very impressed with those games (SC in particular), but I wouldn't get one for myself until around 2009. In retrospect, it's weird that I didn't jump onboard when it was released, but so it was.

Getting it so late probably has everything to do with why I don't have any "magical" feelings for the system. By the time I got around to spending some meaningful time with the system (and a nice handful of it's games), I suppose I was no longer in a position to be really impressed by it.

For me, it has a "you had to have been there" kind of feel for me. There were some fun games, but it's the system I'd least want to be stuck with of that gen. I'll also say that I don't miss the use of only one analog stick

Got mine on launch day from the EB at my local mall (local at the time, I should say). Picked up the system, a VMU, Air Force Delta, Sonic Adventure, House of the Dead 2, and Soul Calibur. Stood in line at 6:30 A.M. for the store's early opening and everything, then played the hell out of it and had fun when I got home. So I was there when it all started, and it still didn't capture me the way the Genesis and other SEGA systems did. I wouldn't sell it, or the games I have for it, but it doesn't get much use when compared my the other SEGA systems.

Even my 32X gets more use :shock:

Jeckidy
03-11-2014, 07:56 AM
It was ported and that was Powerstone Collection for PSP, which had both 1 and 2. I sold it though, didn't care for the series at all.

Rayman 2 is one of the best platformers on the system, probably moreso than SA1 and 2, and is considered superior in its incarnation on the DC versus the other versions. Plus, I think my number 1 title for it that I own would of course be Rayman 2, since platformers are one of my favorite genres.

Fur Fighters....I recently stopped playing it because it was painfully boring, after realizing the humor was the only appeal. It had a PS2 and iPad port, but some people here told me they were inferior to the original. While I like the DC controller better for this game, the lone fansite for it which is referenced on wikipedia says that such is not entirely the case, regarding the DC version having less bugs than the rest, among other things.

I really don't own that many DC games because there aren't any that I'm dying to play except maybe Grandia 2. Evolution was a horrid, banal RPG that eludes me as to why it ever had a sequel, or even a remake. I want my time back for playing through that shitter. Shenmue had a great environment but didn't impress me as much the last time I tried playing it. And I will not shell out 100+ dollars for some cookie cutter shooter like the Milestone garbage. But Bangai-O is worth playing, I think.

Right now, I'm more interested in what you can actually do with it in terms of 3D homebrew as opposed to what's been done so far.

moonwhistle
03-11-2014, 08:24 AM
Powerstone 2's appeal for me is it's 4 player mode. The singleplayer is not good at all. I realise it got a PSP port but even if it's arcade perfect I wouldn't play it on a tiny screen with awful controls. It's crying out for XBLA release due to its multiplayer greatness.

midnightrider
03-11-2014, 10:40 AM
By that logic, a lot of the Genesis's best games were released on 1 disc for the 360. Should you drop the Genesis as well?

The only reason I don't have a Dreamcast anymore is because I burned out so hard on the modern-ish(roughly '09) era, that I didn't want to deal with discs anymore, and I still don't. Not even for watching movies/TV shows, or listening to music. The quality of Dreamcast games didn't diminish, my desire to play anything beyond cartridges did. (Another part of it is I'm not fond of voice acting in my video games, or FMV's, so I just really, really dislike discs in relation to video games)

OverDrone
03-11-2014, 11:19 AM
I saved up the doe and imported an NTSCU machine at launch with VF3 TB and Soul Calibur. I would say at the time seeing that level of animation and texturing in the graphics was mind blowing.

It soon became apparent that Capcom were firmly behind the machine with fantastic ports of Marvel vs Capcom 1/2 and SNK vs Capcom 1/2, and for the first time a port of Street Fighter 3 from CPS3 board, the first time this was technically possible. Some of these fighters were exclusive at the time, and if they did have a PSX port it was heavily cut-down.

Feature in Power Stone, the Spawn and Heavy Metal games, Street Fighter Zero 3 Saikyo Dojo, Vampire Chronicles and Code Veronica, and I think Capcom had DC development well covered.

SNK supported DC with NG Pocket connectivity and KOF, Last Blade and Mark of the Wolves ports, again, a big deal, especially with Garou.

Shmups were also a big deal for DC, and continue to be to this day. Mars Matrix, Giga Wing 1/2, Gunbird 2, Zero Gunner 2, Border Down, Under Defeat, Radirgy, Karous, all excellent genre entries in their own right.

Meanwhile Sega's 1st party software for DC was innovative and unique (Seaman, Shenmue, JSR etc), as well as drawing from a well of great arcade titles (Fighting Vipers 2, Daytona USA, VF3).

'Holy shit this looks better than Soul Calibur' games like Dead or Alive 2, seriously man, these were the best 3D graphics on a home console at the time bar none.

It was good times and for a while there was easily the machine of choice for arcade aficionados. I think that's what a lot of later adopters of the machine, as well as blind PS2 fanboys, tend to forget.

Doppelgamer
03-11-2014, 11:31 AM
If I could fault the Dreamcast for anything, it would be that it has almost too many fighting games and not enough RPGs. Of course, that's simply my preference, but when you consider how many RPGs the PlayStation had, and how well it did... Also, I don't like the controller as much as the analog controller for the Saturn, but would have preferred a controller with two analog sticks. The DC was also too loud while running.

What did I like? The displayed items on the VMUs while playing games, the ability to use VGA, the on-line capability, and the games. The availability of multiple colors for the controllers and VMUs was appreciated and the relatively compact size. Four controller ports was a wise move also.

Games? I enjoyed Skies of Arcadia, Grandia II, Street Fighter Alpha 3, Garou: Mark of the Wolves, Power Stone 2, Capcom vs SNK 2, Gauntlet Legends, Jet Grind (Set) Radio, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver, Last Blade 2, Mr. Driller, Ms. Pac-man: Maze Madness, Project Justice, Psychic Force 2012 (somewhat), Record of Lodoss War, Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil 3, Resident Evil: Code Veronica, Silver, Sword of the Berserk: Guts' Rage, Tony Hawk 2, Tech Romancer, Crazy Taxi and more. I'll probably like Sonic Adventure 2 & Shenmue, but I've not had a chance to play my copies of those much yet. (Nor the first Sonic Adventure.) SoulCalibur is good too, but by the time I played it, I had already played SC2 to SC4, so it wasn't as awe-inspiring.

midnightrider
03-11-2014, 11:41 AM
RPG's didn't sell the PlayStation, they just had more courage to localize them when Final Fantasy VII sold as well as it did. Mainly because the average consumer was led to believe they were picking up an action game with the graphics of the games FMV's.

I'm not blaming you, but this whole "RPG's were popular" (outside of Japan, and even at that...)thing is the weirdest bit of historical revisionism.

EclecticGroove
03-11-2014, 11:47 AM
I think it's more fair to say that FF7 brought mainstream appeal to RPG's. It certainly helped to sell quite a few PS1's all over the world, but RPG's in general were not one of the main reasons any system sold here in the states.

I think the FF series is likely the only "hyped" RPG games here in the US. And even those not as much as they were.

Doppelgamer
03-11-2014, 11:54 AM
RPG's didn't sell the PlayStation, they just had more courage to localize them when Final Fantasy VII sold as well as it did. Mainly because the average consumer was led to believe they were picking up an action game with the graphics of the games FMV's.

I'm not blaming you, but this whole "RPG's were popular" (outside of Japan, and even at that...)thing is the weirdest bit of historical revisionism.

To be fair, I said that the PlayStation did well (not RPGs specifically), but I would assume that RPGs did alright, with so many of them gaining "Greatest Hits" status. Still, I'm quite certain that sports games, action titles and fighting games are what sold the most. I was probably in the minority, as everyone I knew wanted to play the RPGs and platformers, and I only knew one person who ever bothered with sports titles. All the same, if FFVII gave companies the courage to release more RPGs, I have to wonder why they ignored the Dreamcast for the most part. I would guess it was because the PS1 was so overwhelmingly popular, so they focused there.

moonwhistle
03-11-2014, 12:49 PM
By that logic, a lot of the Genesis's best games were released on 1 disc for the 360. Should you drop the Genesis as well?

The only reason I don't have a Dreamcast anymore is because I burned out so hard on the modern-ish(roughly '09) era, that I didn't want to deal with discs anymore, and I still don't. Not even for watching movies/TV shows, or listening to music. The quality of Dreamcast games didn't diminish, my desire to play anything beyond cartridges did. (Another part of it is I'm not fond of voice acting in my video games, or FMV's, so I just really, really dislike discs in relation to video games)

I'm talking about the many Capcom and SNK arcade ports on the Dreamcast which in nearly all cases have better versions on other formats.

The Genesis is different because the modern compilations don't better the originals and there are far more exclusives worth having.

The Dreamcast has very few essential exclusives imo.

Doppelgamer
03-11-2014, 01:26 PM
I'm talking about the many Capcom and SNK arcade ports on the Dreamcast which in nearly all cases have better versions on other formats.
I wouldn't say "nearly all cases", as some of those games were developed for the Naomi hardware to begin with, but often enough this is true. It is worth mentioning that the difference in quality is minimal with many of these cases, and the cost, far less than some others. (Neo Geo carts such as Garou: Mark of the Wolves or Last Blade 2 for instance.) I haven't played King of Fighters '99 for DC, so I wouldn't know about that.

In some cases, the Dreamcast version is thought to be superior. Marvel vs Capcom 1 & 2, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Street Fighter III: Third Strike, Capcom vs SNK 2 (Japanese only is a minor downside, though.), etc... I have heard that the Japanese version of Street Fighter Zero 3 for the Saturn is slightly better than the Dreamcast, but I doubt it's by much. I can certainly understand that someone heavily invested in the fighting genre might be discerning enough to want that little bit of extra quality, though.

Gogogadget
03-11-2014, 01:27 PM
SFZ3 is better on Saturn than Dreamcast, SFIII: Third Strike is better on Xbox than Dreamcast

moonwhistle
03-11-2014, 01:37 PM
I wouldn't say "nearly all cases", as some of those games were developed for the Naomi hardware to begin with, but often enough this is true. It is worth mentioning that the difference in quality is minimal with many of these cases, and the cost, far less than some others. (Neo Geo carts such as Garou: Mark of the Wolves or Last Blade 2 for instance.) I haven't played King of Fighters '99 for DC, so I wouldn't know about that.

In some cases, the Dreamcast version is thought to be superior. Marvel vs Capcom 1 & 2, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Street Fighter III: Third Strike, Capcom vs SNK 2 (Japanese only is a minor downside, though.), etc... I have heard that the Japanese version of Street Fighter Zero 3 for the Saturn is slightly better than the Dreamcast, but I doubt it's by much. I can certainly understand that someone heavily invested in the fighting genre might be discerning enough to want that little bit of extra quality, though.

Indeed, my interests at the time where mainly arcade conversions. I loved the DC during it's lifespan but as things I wanted to play got better ports elsewhere I pretty much gave up on the system.

From what I remember about the Dreamcast ports:

Mark of the Wolves : not great: input lag and botched sound samples. PS2 version is near perfect as is XBLA.

Last Blade 2 - same as above.

All KOFs have better versions elsewhere, mainly PS2.

Alpha 3 is awful on Dreamcast, it's just a port of the ps1 game with screwed up sprites sizes and missing animation. The Saturn and PS2 versions are miles better.

3rd Strike was ok for the time but PS2 and XBLA are way better and don't have input lag or missing unblockables.

JoJo is better on PS2 iirc and there's the XBLA port now too.

The only Dreamcast ports I can remember that are still worth playing are CVSNK2 and Project Justice. There might be others but it's been a while!

Much as like Sega hardware, I would take the PS2 anyday for playing 3rd party arcade ports and compilations. It just has sooo many of them.

Doppelgamer
03-11-2014, 03:06 PM
JoJo is better on PS2 iirc and there's the XBLA port now too.

Just to clarify. You mean the PS1 version of Jojo? I only recall it being on Arcade/PS1/Dreamcast and then later for PSN/XBLA.

tim333
03-11-2014, 03:37 PM
Final Fantasy 7 was the reason I got a PS1. They marketed me all up and I had to have it. But then, I was 12.

Jeckidy
03-11-2014, 03:48 PM
So what is Dreamcast's quintessential RPG? Skies of Arcadia or Grandia 2? Don't tell me "Evolution" because I'll just laugh in your face. For instance, there is some debate over whether or not Grandia 2 was an improvement over the original (better graphics and questing but more drama and less playfulness). I'd assume most would tout Skies of Arcadia is the system's best RPG. Both the DC original and the GC port are hard to find these days on the second hand market, though.

gamevet
03-11-2014, 03:48 PM
The Dreamcast still has a lot of good console exclusives, or games that have content exclusive to the console.


Border Down
Giga Wing
Giga Wing 2
Gunbird 2 (Exclusive characters)
Armada
Silver
Record of Lodoss War
Silver
Time Stalkers
Mars Matrix
Aerowings 2 Airstrike
Bangai-o
Super Magnetic Neo
Grandia II
Heavy Metal Geomatrix
Confidential Mission
Shenmue
D2
Bomberman Online
Dino Crisis
Starlancer
Sega Marine Fishing
MakenX
Virtual-On Oratorio Tangram
Virtua Stiker 2
Metropolis Street Racer
Alien Front Online
Sword of Berserk
Seaman
Sega Bass Fishing 2
Carrier
Blue Stinger

moonwhistle
03-11-2014, 04:10 PM
Just to clarify. You mean the PS1 version of Jojo? I only recall it being on Arcade/PS1/Dreamcast and then later for PSN/XBLA.

I'd thought the PS2 game was the same but apparently it's some crappy 3d brawler. The DD port might be the best one along with XBLA.

midnightrider
03-11-2014, 04:17 PM
So what is Dreamcast's quintessential RPG? Skies of Arcadia or Grandia 2? Don't tell me "Evolution" because I'll just laugh in your face. For instance, there is some debate over whether or not Grandia 2 was an improvement over the original (better graphics and questing but more drama and less playfulness). I'd assume most would tout Skies of Arcadia is the system's best RPG. Both the DC original and the GC port are hard to find these days on the second hand market, though.

Time Stalkers :p

It wasn't terrible though. I think a lot of people missed the point of it though, because it wasn't a story heavy game. It was effectively a turn based rogue-like, that reset your stats to level 1 every time you left a dungeon(another thing that turned off the impatient). On the other hand, there were tons of little side character stories, monsters to catch(but not to the degree of pokemon) which included some overpowered bosses that take the place of the final boss after the story. Plus it was a crossover of Climax's games, so you could use Nigel from Landstalker, Lady from Lady Stalker, or Pyra from Shining in the Darkness. Not sure if any of the other characters come from other Climax games, except I know Sword was created specifically for this one.

Edit:^Come to think of it, the battles almost remind me of Chrono Trigger. They happen right there, as you bump into enemies.

Record of Lodoss War was a good Diablo 2 clone. The downside for me though, was that all the experience in the world doesn't mean shit compared to paying the blacksmith to forge runes into your equipment, and it's not easy coming across money, or quick for him to perform multiple forgings.

More of action/adventure, but Elemental Gimmick Gear was a good, challenging, gorgeously hand drawn game that's very reminiscent of the Zelda series. It goes 3D for boss battles though.

Silver...is the only one I never actually played.

tim333
03-11-2014, 04:39 PM
Skies is the only RPG I've played on the Dreamcast, but man, it is one of my favorites.

I've played the Gamecube version, too. It has a few little extra features. It lacks Pinta Quest, of course. That's a small deal, but I always enjoyed the little VMU gimmicks. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 had Chao Adventure 1 and 2, and you know, those are the only three titles with VMU games I can think of. Does anybody know of more?

midnightrider
03-11-2014, 04:55 PM
Grandia II was my favorite. As I said earlier, I went through it about 7 times. Some will complain it's too short/easy(I always got 36 hours out of it, some have claimed lower 20's). I liked how, oddly enough considering the rest of the series around it, it went dark with it's story. Also, the series has the most fun turn based combat, short of Valkyrie Profile's 1/2 action 1/2 turn based combat. Then there's other things, like the dinner conversations. That was quite unique to the series. Randomly backtracking to a town when near the end of a dungeon because one character was replaced with another yielded some interesting conversation pieces as well. In fact, people often have something new to say when you talk to them more than once.

Jesus, now I'm starting to miss the damn thing :p.

Doppelgamer
03-11-2014, 05:01 PM
I really wish someone would make a new RPG for the Dreamcast. Pier Solar is nice, but it's not the same as a game designed for the system to begin with. Understandably, they take a lot of time and effort, so we mostly get shmups. (Which are cool too.)

Jeckidy
03-11-2014, 05:04 PM
Silver and Time Stalkers are the ones I'm interested in. Time Stalkers sounds appealing as I'm a huge rogue-like fan.

RPGs are both one of my most loved and hated genres. When done right, they are among my favorites, but let's say I'm much more critical of mediocre RPGs than mediocre platformers, in terms of my favorite genres. ;)

midnightrider
03-11-2014, 05:08 PM
Well, if you're going to play something for that long, they better make it engaging as all hell.

j_factor
03-12-2014, 03:04 AM
Indeed, my interests at the time where mainly arcade conversions. I loved the DC during it's lifespan but as things I wanted to play got better ports elsewhere I pretty much gave up on the system.

From what I remember about the Dreamcast ports:

Mark of the Wolves : not great: input lag and botched sound samples. PS2 version is near perfect as is XBLA.

Last Blade 2 - same as above.

All KOFs have better versions elsewhere, mainly PS2.

Alpha 3 is awful on Dreamcast, it's just a port of the ps1 game with screwed up sprites sizes and missing animation. The Saturn and PS2 versions are miles better.

3rd Strike was ok for the time but PS2 and XBLA are way better and don't have input lag or missing unblockables.

JoJo is better on PS2 iirc and there's the XBLA port now too.

The only Dreamcast ports I can remember that are still worth playing are CVSNK2 and Project Justice. There might be others but it's been a while!

Much as like Sega hardware, I would take the PS2 anyday for playing 3rd party arcade ports and compilations. It just has sooo many of them.

I don't think XBLA should count. You don't get a physical copy, it won't be available anymore in a couple of years, and often they're straight arcade ports without the extra modes that console ports got. In any case, as far as Dreamcast Capcom arcade ports go:

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 - Better than the PS2 version. Not sure about Xbox.
Marvel vs. Capcom 1 - Way better than the PSX version (obviously). Never ported to PS2 or whatever.
Capcom vs. SNK 1/Pro - ditto.
Capcom vs. SNK 2 - I've heard it's better than the PS2 version, but I'm not sure.
Tech Romancer - Never ported to anything else.
Project Justice - Never ported to anything else.
Cannon Spike - Never ported to anything else.
Plasma Sword - Never ported to anything else.
Spawn - Never ported to anything else.
Heavy Metal: Geomatrix - Never ported to anything else.
Street Fighter III: Double Impact (New Generation / Second Impact) - Never ported to anything else.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure - Each console version of this game is actually distinct.
Power Stone 1 and 2 - These games don't work that well on PSP. Never ported to another console.
Mars Matrix - Never ported to anything else.
Giga Wing 1 and 2 - Never ported to anything else.
Gunbird 2 - The DC version has two exclusive modes designed to balance the game for play on a typical console/tv setup. PS2 version is only a direct arcade port with pillarboxing.
Puzzle Fighter - Additional game modes not present on PSX/Saturn.

SNK is another story, but I think Capcom still looks pretty damn good on DC. And this is just their arcade conversions.

Blades
03-12-2014, 05:39 AM
One day Knuckle Duster will leave the internet, and Sega fandom will implode.

http://www.cokingcokers.com/main/safety/HoustonExplosion/explosion.gif

GriskaGyoran
03-12-2014, 07:50 AM
Silver and Time Stalkers are the ones I'm interested in. Time Stalkers sounds appealing as I'm a huge rogue-like fan.

RPGs are both one of my most loved and hated genres. When done right, they are among my favorites, but let's say I'm much more critical of mediocre RPGs than mediocre platformers, in terms of my favorite genres. ;)

Time Stalkers was kind of shitty actually. I love the characters in the game, with exception of Lady. It has an absolutely confusing leveling system that I have yet to figure out. It's kind of like when you go to a new dungeon, you lose all the level ups you gained in the previous one. The plot was passable and it has a weird semi-pokemon capturing system. It had potential, but it just makes you wish it was better than it actually is.

midnightrider
03-12-2014, 10:21 AM
^What's to get, you revert back to level 1 when you leave a dungeon. You can't game over, so if you run into something that's too much for level 1 you don't die(a trick for leveling up to a ridiculous degree is to avoid enemies for as many floors as possible, once you know how many floors a given dungeon has, pull out 2 highly durable monsters on a later floor and fight, hopefully 1 enemy. You gain ****loads of experience and level up much higher than you ever would). You do sometimes gain rank, which improves your level 1 stats.

It's not a bad game. It's just not meant to be taken with typical RPG conventions in mind. It's more about playing the game than seeing the main plot through. Though the same could be said for the Evolution games as well.

A Black Falcon
03-12-2014, 08:13 PM
I like TimeStalkers for sure. The Evolution games are decent as well... repetitive, but decent. The humor is probably the main draw with the Evolution games, but the gameplay is okay.