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cleeg
05-19-2014, 09:00 AM
This seems the best thread to add to...

Just completed this today. I've been dipping in and out of it for about a year, and finally cleared a day to finish it off. I got the same feeling I got after I completed Ecco The Tides Of Time, a bit sad but satisfied I got to the end of the adventure. I really enjoyed this game. Anyone else a fan?

I had hoped that I'd get it all after this game, but I'm still a little confused as to the events of the previous games. Looks like more playing is required!

I'm looking forward to the day I can get a bigger house with a games room so I can break out the original X Box from its underbed prison and get going on Orta. It's the only game I have for it and the reason I bought the system in the first place.

Jeckidy
05-19-2014, 09:48 AM
I have Azel on Saturn. The game is pretty good from what I played so far but my japanese understanding is so-so. Still, I was able to read the menus/descriptions of the items and some other stuff just fine. Even for non-speakers, it's not terribly difficult to figure it out if you want to try the import version.

Baloo
05-19-2014, 11:58 AM
I'm just moving these posts to a new thread since we're just talking about the game generally.

For what it's worth, Panzer Dragoon Saga is probably the best game I've ever played. Such an immersive world and experience, desolate and creepy. Really cool stuff. I hadn't even played through PD1 or Zwei when I played the game, I probably would have gotten more out of the diary stuff and extra info in the game, but I still think it's the best RPG I've ever played. The battle system is fun, there are tons upon tons of secrets, the story is gripping, and then that ending...

Just overall a fantastic experience. And it's short and sweet too, doesn't drag on like a lot of RPGs do. Loved that I didn't have to grind or get bored of environments to enjoy the game. It's worth the high price tag it commands.

EclecticGroove
05-19-2014, 01:27 PM
I played the first two and enjoyed them for being competent rail shooters with a very unique and interesting aesthetic.

When Azel came out I was interested. I loved the world they built, and loved RPG's so I gave it a shot.

It's still one of the most interesting set of environments and settings of any game I've played. Sure the whole post apocalyptic thing has been done to death, and while the story was hardly groundbreaking... it was just so interesting, especially for the time... and the whole experience was really solid and consistent. Everything looked like it fit so well (or it stood out for the right reasons).

I'd love to see a new Panzer RPG on the new systems with just as much polish as Azel had.

cleeg
05-19-2014, 01:56 PM
Just overall a fantastic experience. And it's short and sweet too, doesn't drag on like a lot of RPGs do. Loved that I didn't have to grind or get bored of environments to enjoy the game.

I totally agree. It has that nice length of gameplay that seems like it's going to take forever (Four discs!) but at the end you think "I could play through that again fairly soon and remember the bits where I went wrong without having to take a month off." The last game I played like this was Ico, which after taking my time and going back and forth from the game for six months or so completed the next day in about four hours.

Thoroughly enjoyed it too, it had a similar eerie atmosphere and made me feel the same as I did when playing Saga, even though the themes were quite different.

synbiosfan
05-19-2014, 03:25 PM
For what it's worth, Panzer Dragoon Saga is probably the best game I've ever played. Such an immersive world and experience, desolate and creepy. Really cool stuff. I hadn't even played through PD1 or Zwei when I played the game, I probably would have gotten more out of the diary stuff and extra info in the game, but I still think it's the best RPG I've ever played. The battle system is fun, there are tons upon tons of secrets, the story is gripping, and then that ending...

Just overall a fantastic experience. And it's short and sweet too, doesn't drag on like a lot of RPGs do. Loved that I didn't have to grind or get bored of environments to enjoy the game. It's worth the high price tag it commands.

I completely agree!

Unfortunately, collectors have really driven the price up on it. The people that would appreciate it the most may never get a chance to play it.

Guntz
05-19-2014, 04:54 PM
I might try out PDS with my modchipped Saturn eventually. Is it better than Panzer Dragoon 1 and 2? People say they're better than Starfox, they were the opposite for me.

synbiosfan
05-19-2014, 05:15 PM
Because of Saga's story element I say Yes!

Moirai
05-19-2014, 06:47 PM
Saga is good but definitely overrated, IMO.

I'd pay $135 for it at the most.

In any case, its a hell of a lot better than Shenmue.

Guntz
05-19-2014, 06:51 PM
As of right now I'd rather put time into Shining Force III. But, I have Shining Force II now, so I better play that instead. Oh, Pier Solar, forgot that... And a million more RPGs I own. I have too many RPGs.

The Jackal
05-19-2014, 06:55 PM
Someone fork me the money and I'll happily post my opinion of it. ;)

GameUser-16-32-128
05-19-2014, 09:46 PM
I've had that game for years and then finally played it last year. It's definitely one of the best damn RPGs on the system. Lots of breathtaking views, intense fights (most notably against Azel), and atmospheric music.

Lan Di
05-20-2014, 02:06 AM
Panzer Dragoon Saga is one of the greatest RPGs ever conceived. Be sure to pick up Panzer Dragoon Orta for the original Xbox as well.

Jeckidy
05-20-2014, 05:50 AM
Saga is good but definitely overrated, IMO.

I'd pay $135 for it at the most.

In any case, its a hell of a lot better than Shenmue.

Shenmue was fun but indeed overrated. Most people who were pining about it were hardcore weeaboos. I completed it and liked the atmosphere, but was never batshit about it. As for PD vs. StarFox, I think the StarFox games had more replay value because of unlockable content and diverging paths, but I still loved the PD series regardless.

Team Andromeda
05-20-2014, 06:47 AM
The people that would appreciate it the most may never get a chance to play it.

Nope . The real fans of Panzer Dragoon would have had a Saturn and bought a game at the time it came out . Its now thanks to the johnny come late gang and the myth of the internet and e-bay that the prices have gone up.

Jeckidy
05-20-2014, 07:27 AM
That's why there's SSF. ;)

Zz Badnusty
05-20-2014, 07:56 AM
more replay value because of unlockable content and diverging paths
You mean like Panzer Dragoon Zwei?

zetastrike
05-20-2014, 10:47 AM
Nope . The real fans of Panzer Dragoon would have had a Saturn and bought a game at the time it came out . Its now thanks to the johnny come late gang and the myth of the internet and e-bay that the prices have gone up.

That's not exactly fair. I would have been far too young when PDS came out to appreciate it. We also didn't have a Saturn in 1998, we got a PSX in 1999 because my older brother asked for it. In retrospect I would have enjoyed the Saturn a lot more as a kid. Some of us can't help that we were late to the party.

Knuckle Duster
05-20-2014, 11:01 AM
That's not exactly fair. I would have been far too young when PDS came out to appreciate it. We also didn't have a Saturn in 1998, we got a PSX in 1999 because my older brother asked for it. In retrospect I would have enjoyed the Saturn a lot more as a kid. Some of us can't help that we were late to the party.

Fairness? Look at his name. Look at his avatar. Don't feel bad that he's spouting off about "Real" fans.

Whether he's just joking or not, the real joke is that all he can fanboy about these days is Mario & Sonic Olympic games. :lol:

synbiosfan
05-20-2014, 11:43 AM
Fairness? Look at his name. Look at his avatar. Don't feel bad that he's spouting off about "Real" fans.

Whether he's just joking or not, the real joke is that all he can fanboy about these days is Mario & Sonic Olympic games. :lol:

That's why I wasn't going to respond to the troll bait.

Team Andromeda
05-20-2014, 12:25 PM
Fairness? Look at his name. Look at his avatar. Don't feel bad that he's spouting off about "Real" fans.

Whether he's just joking or not, the real

Yeah a real fan : People who bought the hardware and games in question when they came out , not on the back of myth or love affair with e-bay or Internet . Any true fan of Panzer Dragoon would have had the Saturn and a copy of the 1st game at the start and then would have fallen in love with the game and gone out and bought the sequel and then the RPG ;that's what fans tends to do. And it doesn't matter if its Saga or a game like GTA a real fan of the game series would be there from the start , fall in love with the francies and continue to support the game from then on in

I'm sick of so many people 1st saying they're fans of Panzer Dragoon (yet most have never owned a Saturn) and always going on about Saga (looking over the 1st two games almost completely) mostly that is just on the back of the hype train thanks the fee's commanded on e-bay and all the internet talk.

zetastrike
05-20-2014, 12:28 PM
Blah Blah Blah Blah.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person who didn't own a Saturn in 1998.

Knuckle Duster
05-20-2014, 12:51 PM
Yeah a real fan : People who bought the hardware and games in question when they came out , not on the back of myth or love affair with e-bay or Internet . Any true fan of Panzer Dragoon would have had the Saturn and a copy of the 1st game at the start and then would have fallen in love with the game and gone out and bought the sequel and then the RPG ;that's what fans tends to do. And it doesn't matter if its Saga or a game like GTA a real fan of the game series would be there from the start , fall in love with the francies and continue to support the game from then on in

I'm sick of so many people 1st saying they're fans of Panzer Dragoon (yet most have never owned a Saturn) and always going on about Saga (looking over the 1st two games almost completely) mostly that is just on the back of the hype train thanks the fee's commanded on e-bay and all the internet talk.

Oh, so you were being serious. :rofl:

You hate people picking up retro games and appreciating them? You think these people aren't real fans because they weren't there 20 years ago and you were? So, what are the perks of being there from the start? Why are you sick and tired about people appreciating something you're a fan of, just because they discovered it under other circumstances?


With this crazy logic, I guess I'm a real Nintendo fan since I got my NES from the NYC launch. Indeed, I guess that makes me an ultimate expert on them and true fan. :lol:

Kudos for cutting my quote's comment about Team Andromeda's new digs, sucking the hind teet of Sega on Nintendo's behalf. Gotta love those M&S Olympic games. :ok:

Team Andromeda
05-20-2014, 01:36 PM
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person who didn't own a Saturn in 1998.

Again this is what I mean. Panzer Dragoon didn't start life in 1998, but in 1995 . All the talk is of Saga and that's thanks mostly to e-bay and the hype train . To take the most out of Saga one should be a fan of the 1st 2 games and then they can enjoy the story behind Saga all the more


You hate people picking up retro games and appreciating them

Nothing wrong in that . But any fan of a so called game or system would tend to actually own the game, don't you think . Not always banging on to SEGA to bring the game out on new systems so they can actually play the game (that they claim to love). I can understand it a lot more if the game was never translated or never released in Europe or the USA , but it was and back when Saga came out they was no real trouble getting a copy of the game or paying some stupid high price for the pleasure to play the game .

Da_Shocker
05-20-2014, 02:07 PM
Nope . The real fans of Panzer Dragoon would have had a Saturn and bought a game at the time it came out . Its now thanks to the johnny come late gang and the myth of the internet and e-bay that the prices have gone up.

I actually never saw the game out in public in 98 or I would've snatched it asap. I was able to get MKR in the summer of 98 used for 30 dollars. I know my younger brother friend had Burning Rangers and he would not sell it to me in 98.

Zz Badnusty
05-20-2014, 02:56 PM
Panzer Dragoon Saga was of course near impossible to purchase on release day. It wasn't until months later when the second production run made it to stores then it was easy to find, and often marked down to $29.99

My story to always tell regarding PDS is that I purchased it at the same time as Zelda OOT. I concentrated on Zelda as a few of my friends also purchased it at release and we were competing with each other to find all the spiders and beat the game first. PDS couldn't be ignored though, and by the time I reached Ganandorf's Castle I was bored to death of Ocarina of Time. Panzer Dragoon Saga was, and is, an immensely better game than that childish boring Zelda game, in every way possible.

Iron Lizard
05-20-2014, 03:06 PM
That game always had a certain aura around it. The first two games were neat enough what would Sega give us with Saga? I bought it new and then again when disc four got scratched and it doesn't mean shit.

Prices will always go up when the rest of the world figures out how neat something is. It's just how it is. The price of that game was already going through the roof ten years ago.

Jeckidy
05-20-2014, 03:14 PM
I've never owned the US or PAL version of this game. I'm happy with my japanese copy and haven't had any problem working my way through it despite not being too advanced in the language as of yet. However, I only got outside of the first valley you play through and to the camp. Still, it's fun. The battle system is totally unique, never seen anything like it at all. Fighting that huge spider-like creature on the mountain valley was pretty epic.

The Coop
05-20-2014, 06:28 PM
Back when PDS first came out, I almost wasn't able to get it. I'd placed a preorder for it months earlier, and was looking forward to having it, since I was a pretty big fan of the first two games. But, as luck would not have it, the day I got the phone call that my preorder had arrived, I'd just had a bad bout of financial luck, and had virtually no money. Back then, EB only held things for what... two days? So I had 48 hours to get the money, or I'd lose out. The real pisser, was that I got paid in three days, and the people at EB weren't willing to budge. I either picked it up in 48 hours, or it was given to the next person on the list.

Through some friends and family, I managed to scrape together just enough to pick it up on the last day it was going to be held. The next morning, I paid everyone back, and then sat down to begin the trek through PDS. And what a trek it was. The graphics, the music, the settings, the rather odd plot... it was all great. Add in the gameplay that made the encounters actually more than just clicking a menu option, and it was a 20-plus hour ride that was great from start to finish. It's a shame that Panzer Dragoon Orta didn't do that well in sales, putting an end to any potential PDS sequel that had been hinted at back when Orta's doing well could've meant a PDS follow up. But, at least we got PDS localized before the Saturn was killed off, so there's that.

NeoVamp
05-20-2014, 07:52 PM
Is Panzer Dragoon Zwei (Saturn) worth anything? I got it for free a couple years ago.

old man
05-20-2014, 08:43 PM
It's worth all the love you can give it.

EmperorIng
05-20-2014, 08:58 PM
Team Andromeda needs the deep lore of previous games, replete with moving lines such as "We must not let the dragon escape!" and "Find that airship!" to properly enjoy the rich narrative of Panzer Dragoon Saga.


But any fan of a so called game or system would tend to actually own the game, don't you think .
Not if it costs in the triple digits.


Not always banging on to SEGA to bring the game out on new systems so they can actually play the game (that they claim to love). I can understand it a lot more if the game was never translated or never released in Europe or the USA , but it was and back when Saga came out they was no real trouble getting a copy of the game or paying some stupid high price for the pleasure to play the game .
It's been over 15 years man. I think it's time to let go. Also: no one gave a shit about the Saturn back then. True fans would have bought multiple consoles to keep the thing afloat. I guess Saturn owners were always posers.


Panzer Dragoon Saga was, and is, an immensely better game than that childish boring Zelda game, in every way possible.

There's something childish in this post, but I don't think it's Zelda.

Knuckle Duster
05-20-2014, 09:30 PM
It's a shame Sega & Atlus doesn't just license and completely remake the Panzer Dragoon, Dragon Force, and Shining game assets and put them in a new game engine. I'm sure there's enough hype to generate sales.

I would even pay money if fans picked it up and did some total conversion mods.

The Coop
05-20-2014, 09:45 PM
I would even pay money if fans picked it up and did some total conversion mods.

Well, there was a PC version of Panzer Dragoon, so a free modding project could be done by anyone skilled and interested enough.

Zz Badnusty
05-20-2014, 09:56 PM
There's something childish in this post, but I don't think it's Zelda.
Suck it.

Is Zelda Ocarina of Time not a childish game? Especially in juxtaposition to Panzer Dragoon Saga?

EmperorIng
05-20-2014, 10:14 PM
Is Zelda Ocarina of Time not a childish game? Especially in juxtaposition to Panzer Dragoon Saga?

Yes, it's not. Especially in juxtaposition to Panzer Dragoon Saga.

What else is there to explain?

Zz Badnusty
05-20-2014, 11:21 PM
Yes, it's not. Especially in juxtaposition to Panzer Dragoon Saga.

What else is there to explain?

lol

Bottino
05-20-2014, 11:30 PM
Suck it.

Is Zelda Ocarina of Time not a childish game? Especially in juxtaposition to Panzer Dragoon Saga?

Man, i can't rep anyone in this goddamn forum anymore.

It's like comparing a Disney animation to Ghost in the Shell or Akira.

SEGA.GENESIS1989
05-20-2014, 11:37 PM
Man, i can't rep anyone in this goddamn forum anymore.

My Spidey senses detected that you needed some help! Repped ZZ Badnusty of your behalf! :p

EmperorIng
05-21-2014, 01:21 AM
I'm so happy for all of you. Wear that badge proudly.



It's like comparing a Disney animation to Ghost in the Shell or Akira.

It's like comparing a good rpg with an actual great game (that's Zelda for those not taking notes), one with a saving grace beyond being the final good game released for a dead system. Unless by comparing PDS to Akira, you're saying that it's all flash, and no substance (and I like Akira). There's a point where contrarianism needs to be laughed at - and calling OoT childish is laughable (judging by his post, Badnusty agrees), 'especially in juxtaposition' to a game that's just good.

Knuckle Duster
05-21-2014, 02:03 AM
Ocarina of Time was and still is an amazing game. I don't consider it childish. It's not Yoshi's Story or Super Mario Sunshine.

It originally had bloodshed when you stab the shit out of Ganon's face.

Iron Lizard
05-21-2014, 02:10 AM
I can't PDS say is "just a good game". It's one of my all time favorites.

Team Andromeda
05-21-2014, 04:13 AM
I actually never saw the game out in public in 98 or I would've snatched it asap. I was able to get MKR in the summer of 98 used for 30 dollars

C'Mon any Panzer fan knew full well the game was coming out in the West and would have had their pre order in the shop months before the game shipped . I had no trouble getting hold of a copy of the game (even though in the UK the Saturn was more of a flop than inthe USA) and paid just 28 for the copy of Saga - The least I ever paid for any Panzer Dragoon game. Not hard to get a copy or that dear either .

Its just over the last few years with the internet and e-bay hype train that many so called fans are desperate to play SAGA and banging on to SEGA to bring it out on other systems.


Not if it costs in the triple digits

Yeah you name me one Saturn game that came in at triple digits during the Saturn life time . Not even the Vs Fighters with the 4 or 1 Meg carts came in at that price . You can thank the internet and e-bay for the jump in Saturn prices . But any real Panzer fan would have got SAGA the day it came out in the west and paid the 'average' Saturn price for it too.


Also: no one gave a shit about the Saturn back then

That's fair enough. But with no Saturn there's no Panzer Dragoon and wouldn't be a fan of the series if you didn't care for the system or it games .


Panzer Dragoon Saga was, and is, an immensely better game than that childish boring Zelda game, in every way possible

Well its always going to be up the player . I'm not the biggest fan of Zelda, but in saying that I found the 2 Lunar games on the Mega CD to be better RPG's than Saga and in fact I find the 1st Panzer Dragoon game to be the best in the series full stop and most prob my fav game of all time .

Jeckidy
05-21-2014, 07:08 AM
Zelda and PDS are totally different games. OoT may be overrated but it's still enjoyable as I am a big action-RPG fan. But PDS and Zelda have very little in common gameplay wise. Why not FF7 vs. PDS since they were both turn-based and (at least in the US) touted as the best RPG on their respective platforms at the time.

Baloo
05-21-2014, 07:28 AM
Yeah, that's comparing apples and oranges there. They're two different kinds of RPGs.

That being said, I'm not sure I could compare PDS to any other RPG I've played. It's just so different. Different battle system, different environment, different game pacing, all the FMV, it's truly a product of it's time. It's nothing like Pokemon, or Earthbound, or Final Fantasy, or Dragon Warrior, or Phantasy Star, it's as if they made Panzer Dragoon and gave it some role playing elements.

I don't see why we need to bicker about what game is better though. What is with you people? You can equally enjoy different games, the main thing is actually playing it and enjoying it. Not what's "Better" in some dumb forum argument.

And no, not buying the game on launch doesn't mean you are not a "Real fan." I never had a Saturn growing up and would not have known about this game unless I had searched forums and knew about it due to the hype it got post-2000s on the internet. I borrowed it from a friend. But that makes me less of a fan? You just sound like an asshole Andromeda.

Team Andromeda
05-21-2014, 08:55 AM
I had searched forums and knew about it due to the hype it got post-2000s on the internet. I borrowed it from a friend. But that makes me less of a fan?

Saga I take it ? Skipped the 1st two games, like so many others ? . A real fan of the series would be there from the start . You start off with the 1st one and then move on to 2nd and look forward to the 3rd its what a fan will do
To me Saga's main appeal is to the fans of the 1st two games, has it goes in to great detail explaining the background story to the games the points of the tunnels and so on . So many claim to be massive fans of Saga yet have hardly played it, much less own the Saturn or Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon Zwei. How can one be fan of the game yet don't own the system or the game ? .

Its not to act hard or anything just the way I see. See many saying how they loved SEGA's phantasy star series , yet never ever owned a Master system much less played the very 1st Phantasy star and yet make out to be the biggest fans of the series , What ever ..

Zz Badnusty
05-21-2014, 11:45 AM
Why not FF7 vs. PDS

Read the post that initially makes an association between PDS and OOT. That's why.

zetastrike
05-21-2014, 12:09 PM
Read the post that initially makes an association between PDS and OOT. That's why.

C'mon, guys. You can't compare anything, let alone PDS, to The Greatest Game of All Time (TM)

Moirai
05-21-2014, 12:17 PM
I like super Mario sunshine.

Da_Shocker
05-21-2014, 12:42 PM
Jeez TA stop being on such a high horse. I'm pretty sure the most copies of these Sega games went to the biggest cities in the states. I didn't have any issues finding PD nor PD2 for a rather cheap price back in 98. I wasn't preordering until the DC and I only preordered the system and Shenmue. The only other game I thought about preordering was a Lunar game for the PSx. The only way I could've gotten PDS was through an online shop. But I was only ordering imports games I also passed up Radiant Silvergun for 59.99 and Taromaru for 69.99 (Those old Gamecave ads)

EmperorIng
05-21-2014, 01:33 PM
Saga I take it ? Skipped the 1st two games, like so many others ? . A real fan of the series would be there from the start . You start off with the 1st one and then move on to 2nd and look forward to the 3rd its what a fan will do

I don't know if you caught this or not, but no one cares whether or not someone is a "true fan" of the series. Your fixation on such a meaningless distinction is laughable. If anyone wants to be "fans" of this dead series they should probably just play Orta and be done with it. Or maybe even Crimson Dragon (haven't played that one).


it goes in to great detail explaining the background story to the games the points of the tunnels and so on .
True fans care about tunnels.


So many claim to be massive fans of Saga yet have hardly played it
Conspiracies of shadowy legions of posers claiming to like games they've never played? Call the police.


How can one be fan of the game yet don't own the system or the game ? .
Its not to act hard or anything just the way I see. See many saying how they loved SEGA's phantasy star series , yet never ever owned a Master system much less played the very 1st Phantasy star and yet make out to be the biggest fans of the series , What ever ..

Ownership=/=enjoyment, especially for rudimentary 8bit RPGs. Or rudimentary 32bit 3D rail-shooters (for the record, I like the series).

Zz Badnusty
05-21-2014, 01:42 PM
Panzer Drwgoon Zwei is hardly rudimentary. The branching paths, variable difficulty, score multipliers, and evolving dragon/weapon forms weren't at all rudiments of the genre at the time.

Baloo
05-21-2014, 02:51 PM
Saga I take it ? Skipped the 1st two games, like so many others ? . A real fan of the series would be there from the start . You start off with the 1st one and then move on to 2nd and look forward to the 3rd its what a fan will do
To me Saga's main appeal is to the fans of the 1st two games, has it goes in to great detail explaining the background story to the games the points of the tunnels and so on . So many claim to be massive fans of Saga yet have hardly played it, much less own the Saturn or Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon Zwei. How can one be fan of the game yet don't own the system or the game ? .

Its not to act hard or anything just the way I see. See many saying how they loved SEGA's phantasy star series , yet never ever owned a Master system much less played the very 1st Phantasy star and yet make out to be the biggest fans of the series , What ever ..

You must be fun at parties.

Gogogadget
05-21-2014, 03:07 PM
Its not to act hard or anything just the way I see. See many saying how they loved SEGA's phantasy star series , yet never ever owned a Master system much less played the very 1st Phantasy star and yet make out to be the biggest fans of the series , What ever ..

You say that like there is anything special about the first Phantasy Star

Jeckidy
05-21-2014, 03:08 PM
These are all meaningless sentiments based more in nostalgia. Our understanding of PDS has been enriched thanks to online communities providing an extensive history, interviews, artwork, etc. on the game than someone who would've been there pre-internet. And people can enjoy something for different reasons which makes the existence of the contrast more complimentary than anything.

EmperorIng
05-21-2014, 03:16 PM
These are all meaningless sentiments
Maybe Andromeda's posts, yeah.


Panzer Drwgoon Zwei is hardly rudimentary. The branching paths, variable difficulty, score multipliers, and evolving dragon/weapon forms weren't at all rudiments of the genre at the time.

I was more talking about Panzer Dragoon 1. I said up above I like the series, after all. Though I don't know if including branching paths and variable difficulty in a game by 1996 can really be called "breaking the mold." Star Fox came out three years prior, after all. Not to mention all the games that had those features that weren't even rail shooters. I don't know about too many rail shooters before that (aside from your Galaxy Force 2/AB2/Space Harrier stuff). Star Wars Arcade? Gyruss?

zetastrike
05-21-2014, 03:24 PM
I was more talking about Panzer Dragoon 1. I said up above I like the series, after all. Though I don't know if including branching paths and variable difficulty in a game by 1996 can really be called "breaking the mold." Star Fox came out three years prior, after all. Not to mention all the games that had those features that weren't even rail shooters. I don't know about too many rail shooters before that. Star Wars Arcade? Gyruss?

PD1 and 2 had the lock on attack and PD2 had an evolution/level up system. There's also the panning camera. That's all stuff Star Fox lacked. As for railshooters before either of them, there's Galaxy Force II, Burning Force, Night Strikers, Space Harrier, Starblade, Burning Soldier, Novastorm off the top of my head.

EmperorIng
05-21-2014, 03:33 PM
Bad on me for forgetting Burning Force and Night Striker. The latter had branching paths, ha.

The camera system of Panzer Dragoon is interesting, yeah, but I never liked how you were just a sitting duck in any perspective but forward.

The Coop
05-21-2014, 03:33 PM
Not to add to the dog piling going on against TA, but...

All this "real fan" stuff reminds me of a poster back on another website I visit who basically made a thread saying "real gamers don't have girlfriends." Their stance was something along the lines of dedicating your time to playing games, and not letting women get in the way of that. It was surreal as hell, because no matter what anyone said, the OP had a strange reason to shoot down any comments that went against their position. A part of me wanted to believe it was just the OP trolling, but... they were dead serious, right down to belittling folks who had wives or girlfriends, and calling them out on not being a so-called real gamer.

So... yeah. I didn't buy the premise of a "real gamer" back then, and I'm not buying into the hipster-like "real fan" mentality being pushed here by Team Andromeda. It's coming off as too much like the "casual/hardcore gamer" argument people made a number of years ago. I mean, if you play games and enjoy them, then it seems to me you're a real gamer. And if you spent the time to play a game from start to finish, and enjoyed the experience, you're a real fan of that game in book. Why bother with splitting a game's fanbase into subsections?

zetastrike
05-21-2014, 03:56 PM
All this "real fan" stuff reminds me of a poster back on another website I visit who basically made a thread saying "real gamers don't have girlfriends." Their stance was something along the lines of dedicating your time to playing games, and not letting women get in the way of that. It was surreal as hell, because no matter what anyone said, the OP had a strange reason to shoot down any comments that went against their position. A part of me wanted to believe it was just the OP trolling, but... they were dead serious, right down to belittling folks who had wives or girlfriends, and calling them out on not being a so-called real gamer.

http://global3.memecdn.com/level-78_c_482579.jpg

Guntz
05-21-2014, 04:48 PM
Ocarina of Time was and still is an amazing game. I don't consider it childish. It's not Yoshi's Story or Super Mario Sunshine.

It originally had bloodshed when you stab the shit out of Ganon's face.

Don't forget all the blood stained floors and walls in the "Beneath the Well" dungeon, or the Shadow Temple. Those still exist in versions after the Player's Choice re-release where Ganon coughs up green blood.

And Ocarina of Time is not an RPG. It's not even an Action RPG. You can't level up or manage stats like an Action RPG. Getting extra hearts and wearing different tunics doesn't count, or "point and click" adventure games count too.

EmperorIng
05-21-2014, 05:47 PM
It's besides the point to the fact that it's better than PDS, though. :p

Iron Lizard
05-21-2014, 06:01 PM
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4104/5166465451_ded900eaf8.jpg

Zz Badnusty
05-21-2014, 06:17 PM
I was more talking about Panzer Dragoon 1. I said up above I like the series, after all. Though I don't know if including branching paths and variable difficulty in a game by 1996 can really be called "breaking the mold."
Bullshit you were "more talking about Panzer Dragoon 1," you clearly wrote of the games as "rudimentary 32bit 3D rail-shooters".

Congratulations on "liking the series"

I'm so happy for all of you. Wear that badge proudly.

What is the point of quotes on "breaking the mold"? No one ever suggested as much.

Black_Tiger
05-21-2014, 07:31 PM
You say that like there is anything special about the first Phantasy Star

This series plummeted downhill after the first game. Not that any other entry was a proper sequel though.

EmperorIng
05-21-2014, 08:01 PM
Bullshit you were "more talking about Panzer Dragoon 1," you clearly wrote of the games as "rudimentary 32bit 3D rail-shooters".
Congratulations on "liking the series"


Well, they certainly look rudimentary, like any 3D game on the Saturn. And I already said that I don't think their defining in-game gimmick, the camera rotation, is all that hot. So what do you have left after that? Nice music, occasionally good boss design, and decent atmosphere. As I hinted at in other posts, Orta has all that and more without the ugly 3D, too. It's the real winner here - taking everything that was good about the first two games and improving on it one hundred-fold.


This series plummeted downhill after the first game. Not that any other entry was a proper sequel though.
Phantasy Star IV is good enough to redeem the whole Genesis trilogy, but that's neither here nor there.

old man
05-21-2014, 08:09 PM
The only thing I think is childish about OOT is how it wants to hold your hand non stop.


And kid link running around in boots with no pants on.

The Coop
05-21-2014, 08:34 PM
... running around in boots with no pants on.

What's childish about that? I do it all the time. Granted, my coworkers don't appreciate it, but...

synbiosfan
05-21-2014, 10:18 PM
Phantasy Star IV is good enough to redeem the whole Genesis trilogy, but that's neither here nor there.

That's like RPG 101. Try to find someone who hasn't beat it. Too easy.

Bottino
05-21-2014, 11:32 PM
I'm so happy for all of you. Wear that badge proudly.

It's like comparing a good rpg with an actual great game (that's Zelda for those not taking notes), one with a saving grace beyond being the final good game released for a dead system. Unless by comparing PDS to Akira, you're saying that it's all flash, and no substance (and I like Akira). There's a point where contrarianism needs to be laughed at - and calling OoT childish is laughable (judging by his post, Badnusty agrees), 'especially in juxtaposition' to a game that's just good.


You say that like there is anything special about the first Phantasy Star


This series plummeted downhill after the first game. Not that any other entry was a proper sequel though.


Well, they certainly look rudimentary, like any 3D game on the Saturn. And I already said that I don't think their defining in-game gimmick, the camera rotation, is all that hot. So what do you have left after that? Nice music, occasionally good boss design, and decent atmosphere. As I hinted at in other posts, Orta has all that and more without the ugly 3D, too. It's the real winner here - taking everything that was good about the first two games and improving on it one hundred-fold.

Phantasy Star IV is good enough to redeem the whole Genesis trilogy, but that's neither here nor there.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/1d/1d1e8afabb2d9ec0820da01ceffcce8b35486db2029b3eda1e b9ad5b03e5d6f3.jpg

Team Andromeda
05-22-2014, 04:49 AM
If anyone wants to be "fans" of this dead series they should probably just play Orta and be done with it

They did but the base is small . Funny how there's little calls for Orta, Panzer Dragoon or Zwei to be updated and brought out on other consoles, by the ones that 'claim to love the series and so on . The joys of what Internet hype and e-bay can do for a game I guess .


True fans care about tunnels.

They might, but there again they would have needed to play the 1st 2 games for the tunnels to have meaning.


I'm pretty sure the most copies of these Sega games went to the biggest cities in the states.

Its not a high horse or trying to act big and cool . There's plenty of rare and most desirable Saturn and SEGA games tbh. But any real die hard fan of any game :the moment they knew they was a sequel coming and that it would see a world wide release , you either go to their local shop and put a pre-order in, or book it on-line (yes even in 1998) They'll do everything they can to make sure they get the copy of the game the moment it ships . So I just don't buy this Saga was mega hard to source. Its just more of a case that many people turned their back on the system and moved on . Only years later with the Internet hype train and the E-Bay marks up are they trying to find out, what all the fuss was about. Hey that happens there's quite a few gems I missed out on stuff like Data East Fuunsaiki series and only years later found out how good they are . But then I'll not make out I'm a massive fan and so wish it would be updated and so on


Conspiracies of shadowy legions of posers claiming to like games

You see it so much on the internet and sometimes on here . How many people have asked SEGA to make a sequel to Streets of Rage, while not owning or playing Part III (a game which in so many ways is much better than SOR II) bu they all wanted SEGA to make a Part IV . How many 360 so called VF fans begged SEGA to bring it on system, only when SEGA calls their bluff it flops .I seem to remember many (not on here) begging SEGA to bring out VF 5 Final Showdown to the consoles and again it flops when it happens . It seems what people don't have makes them want it all the more and then when they do get it, its like what ever... lets move on to the next game or IP we don't have.


And if you spent the time to play a game from start to finish, and enjoyed the experience, you're a real fan of that game in book. Why bother with splitting a game's fanbase into subsections?

And if you like a film or book - you tend to keep hold of it and not get rid of it and hold on to it . Just do laugh at some people who claim to be 'fans' while never owning the system or the game in question but make out to be massive fans and die hards . I love the Mario series of platform games, but came late to the party having skipped through the 8 bit gen from Nintendo and only finding the joys of Mario (platform) in the 16 bit days. So I'll not try and make out that I'm a die hard Mario fan love the series and been there from the start

Gogogadget
05-22-2014, 06:39 AM
This series plummeted downhill after the first game. Not that any other entry was a proper sequel though.

II and IV > I

maxi
05-22-2014, 08:20 AM
Phantasy Star 1 is the best 8-bit RPG and the second was a lot worse than it since its release.
Even 3 is a bit better than 2 in all aspects except in the graphics.

NeoVamp
05-22-2014, 08:23 AM
Phantasy Star 1 is the best 8-bit RPG

I dunno man, PS2/3/4 were pretty good 8bit RPG's too!

ZING!!!!!!

Team Andromeda
05-22-2014, 08:30 AM
You say that like there is anything special about the first Phantasy Star

The 1st one is totally incredible and technical marvel to boot . Though I doubt many people played it in America given the MS poor sales over there. Still didn't stop called fans asking SEGA for a part V on the Saturn or Dreamcast. Yakuza sold in sh8t numbers in the West, but guess there's calls for SEGA to bring out Yakuza V to the west

Gogogadget
05-22-2014, 11:52 AM
The 1st one is totally incredible and technical marvel to boot . Though I doubt many people played it in America given the MS poor sales over there. Still didn't stop called fans asking SEGA for a part V on the Saturn or Dreamcast. Yakuza sold in sh8t numbers in the West, but guess there's calls for SEGA to bring out Yakuza V to the west

PS1 is a good game.

The fairly basic plot and lack of characterization, the obtuse design and difficulty in occasionally finding out what to do, the slow design and menus when just simply trying to talk to people, bad music in places, and those fairly poorly thought 3D dungeons leave it as a flawed good game rather than an incredible one imo.

It is however better than both Final Fantasy 1 and Dragon Quest.

maxi
05-22-2014, 02:08 PM
PS1 is a good game.

The fairly basic plot and lack of characterization, the obtuse design and difficulty in occasionally finding out what to do, the slow design and menus when just simply trying to talk to people, bad music in places, and those fairly poorly thought 3D dungeons leave it as a flawed good game rather than an incredible one imo.

It is however better than both Final Fantasy 1 and Dragon Quest.
Now I understand, you're mistaking PS2 by PS1. That game has no 3D dungeons, though, just dungeons with some ass design where you must fall on a lot of holes to reach it's end.

Gogogadget
05-22-2014, 03:36 PM
Now I understand, you're mistaking PS2 by PS1. That game has no 3D dungeons, though, just dungeons with some ass design where you must fall on a lot of holes to reach it's end.

No, PS2 has it's flaws, but i'm definitely thinking of PS1.

cleeg
05-22-2014, 04:59 PM
Why are we all arguing? It's only a game! I bought it about two years ago, after I'd forgotten about it for many years (I bought PD1 for my brother's Saturn (not even my own console, that must make me the BIGGEST SUPEREST fan EVER!), bought PD2 as soon as it came out and played the arse off it. Shortly after that I stopped playing games for a few years and suddenly remembered about PDS and checked out the prices (yikes!).

The 'Internet hype train' certainly drove up the price, and for what it's worth I don't think any game is worth triple digit prices so this does pee me off somewhat, especially when it's an old title. Because even if it's ace, it's still old and often limited to a degree (in terms of graphics, control, content or whatever) and when held up to a modern counterpart that's its equivalent it is often a slightly lesser experience.

This is all subjective and massively down to opinion of course, but I think my point is largely quite fair.

A true fan is not necessarily willing to part with a big sum, and if you are, it doesn't make you any more super.

One more, sometimes you can't have been there from the beginning, not without one point twenty one jigga watts. But discovering that you like something later and declaring yourself a fan is fine, if you are. There are no Shakespeare fans from back in the day.

Team Andromeda
05-24-2014, 05:48 AM
A true fan is not necessarily willing to part with a big sum, and if you are, it doesn't make you any more super.

Sigh... A fan of the series would have got Saga when it 1st shipped and wouldn't need to pay silly sums , that's my point . Its not to ace big, hard or make out that one is a super fan and one isn't . If you were in to Panzer Dragoon would would have got Saga when it came out , not years latter when the prices go up and it gets harder to find . Sure people can say they weren't born and all that (that's fair enough) . But if you were a fan of Sega and Panzer at the time, you wouldn't need to pay the silly prices , Panzer Dragoon Saga didn't cost more than most Saturn games.


I just don't like the ones that 1st make out they love Panzer Dragoon but only go on about Saga (never talk about the other games) and then say how they wish they could play Saga as they never owned a copy of the game ?


The fairly basic plot and lack of characterization, the obtuse design and difficulty in occasionally finding out what to do, the slow design and menus when just simply trying to talk to people, bad music in places, and those fairly poorly thought 3D dungeons leave it as a flawed good game rather than an incredible one imo.

Hey I'm going by the sort of RPG's I was playing back in 1988 . I found the game to be amazing and the 3D for the Master system a complete knockout

Zz Badnusty
05-24-2014, 08:33 AM
So, back to Panzer Dragoon Saga, what are some of the hidden or "secret" aspects to the game. I dont recall the terms or names, but aren't there hidden eggs you can collect, and if you get them all and complete the game you can then start another game with a special dragon? Or am I making that up?

MarauderEX
05-24-2014, 10:11 AM
So, back to Panzer Dragoon Saga, what are some of the hidden or "secret" aspects to the game. I dont recall the terms or names, but aren't there hidden eggs you can collect, and if you get them all and complete the game you can then start another game with a special dragon? Or am I making that up?

There were items called D-Units scattered throughout the world, where if you collected all of them it gave you access to a unique dragon evolution, No new game required.
There is also a secret music box if you have a Panzer Dragoon Zwei save file.

Gogogadget
05-24-2014, 12:04 PM
Hey I'm going by the sort of RPG's I was playing back in 1988 . I found the game to be amazing and the 3D for the Master system a complete knockout

Yeah in 1988 the game is pretty spectacular, i'll be honest there.