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TailsCD
09-06-2014, 01:41 AM
When it comes to 6th gen and 7th gen multiplats I opt for the Sony version of a game, unless the Nintendo or Microsoft version has extra features. In the case of the 5th gen, I'm less clear. Most of the 5th gen games I've been buying have been exclusives, but I have come across some titles that I used to think were PS1 exclusives, but were actually multiplats with a Saturn version. The most recent examples are Destruction Derby and a Street Fighter Alpha title that I saw at a local game shop (both in longbox cases for about $10-12). I didn't buy them because there were other games that I wanted more that day. While doing a search for PAL Saturn games on ebay, I discovered that both games had a Saturn version (at least in Europe). Once I found that out, I decided not to buy the PS1 copies. I know that may sound fanboyish, but I like buying Sega when I can, even though I'm a Sony fan as well (Sega is my number 1 favorite though).

So what do you guys choose when it comes to a game that was available on both Saturn and PS1?

SEGA.GENESIS1989
09-06-2014, 01:49 AM
Had you posed this question 5 to 6 years ago, I would have said the Saturn. But these days I`ll often seek out the definitive version of the game whether it is on the Saturn or the Playstation. The only thing that may influence my purchase is if the cost is exorbitant.

EmperorIng
09-06-2014, 02:14 AM
I used to want to buy Saturn anything, but over time I realized that cost was more important than negligible differences - or in some cases, flat out worse differences (e.g., Resident Evil SAT vs PS1; PS1 wins very clearly, and is about 4/5 cheaper).

Now I know that Saturn Capcom fighters are generally held as best of the best, but in cases like Darkstalkers, or Alpha 3, I don't think these accuracies are enough to go and buy a Saturn over, unless all you are doing is playing fighting games (do they even play Alpha 3 or Darkstalkers at tournaments?). Plus PS1 has some good exclusives of its own like Rival Schools and Marvel Vs. Capcom. Or you can just get all the good fighting games on the DC and skip the Saturn entirely.

So in general, I go for PS1. There aren't enough Saturn-dominating cross-plats to justify the extra expense. If you can play imports on your PS1/2, then you've solved the one major advantage for the Saturn, which is ease of playing imports.

Granted, I am talking all about NTSC-U and NTSC-J games, so I have no clue how PAL is figured into the mix (probably to everyone's detriment; sorry!).

Benjamin
09-06-2014, 02:37 AM
The most recent examples are Destruction Derby and a Street Fighter Alpha title that I saw at a local game shop (both in longbox cases for about $10-12). I didn't buy them because there were other games that I wanted more that day. While doing a search for PAL Saturn games on ebay, I discovered that both games had a Saturn version (at least in Europe).

I would think a multiple system owner would get the best game available. That's part of the reason you get all the systems in the first place, to expand your options.

In your above example, I'd go with the superior far Saturn Alpha and the PSX Destruction Derby. I'd say those are obvious choices, and generally you'd go Saturn for fighters and shooters while 3-D games tend to be better on PlayStation, though there are cases where that's not true such as Dead or Alive and Grandia. Of course, Grandia presents a potential issue with the language barrier, and some games aren't so clear cut. I'd consider something like Symphony of the Night a toss-up: Do you want the bonus features and area of the Saturn game, or do you want the better looking PSX original?

TailsCD
09-06-2014, 02:51 AM
I would think a multiple system owner would get the best game available. That's part of the reason you get all the systems in the first place, to expand your options.

In your above example, I'd go with the superior far Saturn Alpha and the PSX Destruction Derby. I'd say those are obvious choices, and generally you'd go Saturn for fighters and shooters while 3-D games tend to be better on PlayStation, though there are cases where that's not true such as Dead or Alive and Grandia. Of course, Grandia presents a potential issue with the language barrier, and some games aren't so clear cut. I'd consider something like Symphony of the Night a toss-up: Do you want the bonus features and area of the Saturn game, or do you want the better looking PSX original?

True. I try to be unbiased, but I have to admit, I do prefer certain companies over others. The PS1 and Saturn are both good systems, I guess I go for the Saturn because it's Sega, but in all honesty, it's not my favorite Sega system (that title is a tie between Dreamcast and Genesis for me). The PS1 had a better design and I can find the games much more easily. I often discover games that I didn't even know existed. With the Saturn, I'm limited to ebay so I can't browse the shelves like I can in a store.

I'll keep that in mind.

EmperorIng
09-06-2014, 03:39 AM
With Castlevania, it's an easy choice - the extra feature (Maria Mode) is half-baked, and the game as a whole runs worse than the PS1 version. I appreciate the attempt to give Saturn owners something different, but western CV fans are not missing out on much.

In cases like Silhouette Mirage there is a genuine debate over which is to be had. I'd say it's just easier to have the PS1 release, but people still scream about the "butchered" Working Designs port.

TailsCD
09-06-2014, 03:45 AM
It seems like the Saturn ports are the worst. I guess because it was notoriously hard to program for? Oh well. I'm still buying Saturn games, but I guess I'll stick to exclusives. The search for a game that will make me want to keep coming back to the Saturn continues.

I apologize for coming off as a fanboy earlier.

Benjamin
09-06-2014, 04:19 AM
Yeah, the constant loading on the Saturn game just to get in and out of the inventory screen aggravated me. I remember waiting and waiting for the Saturn game to come out, and when I finally got the game I quickly turned around and sold it. I'm not a big fan of Symphony of the Night as it is, but I waited for the Saturn release because it was expected to be the definitive version. Probably one of the most disappointing game releases I know. Still, I know some people enjoy having Maria playable, though I think most people know the new area is rather pathetic.

"Butchered" is too strong. PSX Silhouette Mirage is worse for the changes but is by no means is a terrible version of the game. Just not the one people should be playing. :p

j_factor
09-06-2014, 04:52 AM
I tend to take it on an individual basis and go for whichever I feel is superior. When neither version is clearly superior (e.g. Gex), I default to the Saturn version.

Gogogadget
09-06-2014, 07:57 AM
I'll probably go with what's cheaper, or what makes more sense to me.

Like, I bought Rayman and Street Fighter Alpha 2 for Saturn because the controller is better for those games, but a lot of 3D games are definitely superior on Playstation.

Assman
09-06-2014, 01:31 PM
It seems like the Saturn ports are the worst.

As a general rule, the Saturn will have the better version of a 2D game (more animation, background details, etc.), with a handful of exceptions; the PS will have the better version of a 3D game (again, with a handful of exceptions).

This is obviously a total generalization, but it's also one that's well-excepted even by fanboys of each system.

j_factor
09-06-2014, 01:50 PM
I dunno, people say that a lot, but I think the exceptions are too numerous for that rule to be very useful.

2D games that are better on Playstation: In the Hunt, DonPachi, DoDonPachi, Strikers 1945 II, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, Rampage World Tour

3D games that are better on Saturn: Powerslave, Wipeout, Mass Destruction, Hexen, Dead or Alive, Tempest 2000

KitsuneNight
09-06-2014, 05:30 PM
i usually buy whatever is available and cheapest
and that is usually the ps1 version but im not too fussy

A Black Falcon
09-06-2014, 05:30 PM
Rampage World Tour is actually better on N64. The PS1 and Saturn versions are only two player! Hexen is best on the N64 as well. It's got four player splitscreen, and slightly better graphics. But yeah, between the Saturn and PS1, there is no absolute there; those are mostly good examples of 2d games better on PS1 and 3d games better on Saturn.

The only one I'd say you are kind of wrong about is Wipeout. Wipeout inarguably has better graphics on PS1; the Saturn version is downgraded, I have both versions. They also removed the two player system-link mode, so on Saturn the game is one player only. Even so, I do like the game more on Saturn because they changed the controls; they removed the PS1s system where you lose ALL acceleration every time you touch the walls, and replaced it with the one you see in the rest of the series where you only lose some acceleration. That makes the game much more fun to play. But because of the somewhat downgraded graphics and missing multiplayer, it definitely gets an asterisk.

Yharnamresident
09-06-2014, 05:40 PM
Rampage World Tour is actually better on N64. The PS1 and Saturn versions are only two player! Hexen is best on the N64 as well. It's got four player splitscreen, and slightly better graphics. But yeah, between the Saturn and PS1, there is no absolute there; those are mostly good examples of 2d games better on PS1 and 3d games better on Saturn.

The only one I'd say you are kind of wrong about is Wipeout. Wipeout inarguably has better graphics on PS1; the Saturn version is downgraded, I have both versions. They also removed the two player system-link mode, so on Saturn the game is one player only. Even so, I do like the game more on Saturn because they changed the controls; they removed the PS1s system where you lose ALL acceleration every time you touch the walls, and replaced it with the one you see in the rest of the series where you only lose some acceleration. That makes the game much more fun to play. But because of the somewhat downgraded graphics and missing multiplayer, it definitely gets an asterisk.

Way to stay on-topic ABF, N64 must always be thrown in the ring too!!


I always go for Saturn version unless ridiculously expensive. Its usually slightly better. Like Croc, both versions have on-par graphics, but the Saturn version has better audio.

Gogogadget
09-06-2014, 05:46 PM
Symphony of the Night Saturn is such a rush job it's sad.

Blades
09-06-2014, 05:55 PM
Like Croc, both versions have on-par graphics, but the Saturn version has better audio.

Completely wrong. PSX Croc is the only version with the full soundtrack, the PC and Saturn versions had abridged soundtracks. Saturn Croc was equally crippled graphically, lacking colored lighting and transparencies. It was also based on a different build and Croc himself is bigger, making platform hopping that much more fun.

A good comparison was Tomb Raider, a game originally intended for the Saturn. It had some neat 3D tricks the PSX didn't.

The Saturn could hold it's own in 3D. I've heard Sonic R's rippling water wouldn't have been as efficient on the PSX.

Bottino
09-06-2014, 06:07 PM
2D games that are better on Playstation: In the Hunt, DonPachi, DoDonPachi, Strikers 1945 II



Now i'm curious. What exactly makes the PS1 ports the best ones?

A Black Falcon
09-06-2014, 06:22 PM
Way to stay on-topic ABF, N64 must always be thrown in the ring too!!
If you're comparing different versions of the same games, and saying "buy those games for PS1 because they're the best ports that gen", that is false. Of course the N64 versions should also be considered.


I always go for Saturn version unless ridiculously expensive. Its usually slightly better. Like Croc, both versions have on-par graphics, but the Saturn version has better audio.
I'd rather get the Saturn versions of games that are on both systems as well, because I don't like Sony... but because of price, I often get the PS1 versions. (As for Croc, no, they don't have on-par graphics; the Saturn version is lower-res, lower-framerate, and looks worse.)


Now i'm curious. What exactly makes the PS1 ports the best ones?
In the Hunt - On PS1 the game has MUCH less slowdown (it's bad on Saturn, minimal on PS1), the game also has a PS1-exclusive CD audio soundtrack option (in addition to the arcade PCM music in both versions), and also supports saving your high scores to the memory card, something the Saturn version stupidly does not have -- no saving there.

DonPachi - Saturn version has worse audio and lots of slowdown

DoDonPachi - Saturn version has more pixelated graphics, making the presentation a bit worse

Strikers 1945 II - much more slowdown on Saturn, and worse general performance as well. The first Strikers 1945 plays better on Saturn than PS1, but it's the reverse for the sequel.

Yharnamresident
09-06-2014, 06:29 PM
Completely wrong. PSX Croc is the only version with the full soundtrack, the PC and Saturn versions had abridged soundtracks. Saturn Croc was equally crippled graphically, lacking colored lighting and transparencies. It was also based on a different build and Croc himself is bigger, making platform hopping that much more fun.

A good comparison was Tomb Raider, a game originally intended for the Saturn. It had some neat 3D tricks the PSX didn't.

The Saturn could hold it's own in 3D. I've heard Sonic R's rippling water wouldn't have been as efficient on the PSX.

Yet you don't mention the flaws in the PS1 version.

The warping polygons are way more noticeable, and the port has less accurate colours.

The sounds effects are more along the lines of what I was saying with better audio.

j_factor
09-06-2014, 07:32 PM
Rampage World Tour is actually better on N64. The PS1 and Saturn versions are only two player!

I thought the Playstation version supported the multitap while the Saturn version did not, which is why I said it. If that's not the case, then they're probably equal. And yeah, the N64 version is best, but I said "better" (a word which implies comparison between two alternatives), not best.


Hexen is best on the N64 as well. It's got four player splitscreen, and slightly better graphics.

Better graphics but worse gameplay. The saving is buggy and the controls are messed up.


The only one I'd say you are kind of wrong about is Wipeout. Wipeout inarguably has better graphics on PS1; the Saturn version is downgraded, I have both versions. They also removed the two player system-link mode, so on Saturn the game is one player only. Even so, I do like the game more on Saturn because they changed the controls; they removed the PS1s system where you lose ALL acceleration every time you touch the walls, and replaced it with the one you see in the rest of the series where you only lose some acceleration. That makes the game much more fun to play. But because of the somewhat downgraded graphics and missing multiplayer, it definitely gets an asterisk.

I preferred the Saturn version's soundtrack, which contains more original tracks, over the Playstation's heavier use of licensed tracks that I've heard a zillion times. YMMV.

Blades
09-07-2014, 10:57 AM
Yet you don't mention the flaws in the PS1 version.

The warping polygons are way more noticeable, and the port has less accurate colours.

The sounds effects are more along the lines of what I was saying with better audio.

?

There's really no difference in the sound effects.

The graphics are incomparably better on PSX Croc. There are various things that are outright missing on the Saturn. Croc never blinks, various enemies are gone (probably to reduce graphics load), Croc's shadow and jellies aren't transparent and the backgrounds are flat on the Saturn though they are wrap-around on the PSX.

Not to mention the frame-rate issues. The lack of sophisticated lighting makes everything look ridiculously dark as well.

Barone
09-07-2014, 03:43 PM
I dunno, people say that a lot, but I think the exceptions are too numerous for that rule to be very useful.
Yep.


2D games that are better on Playstation: In the Hunt, DonPachi, DoDonPachi, Strikers 1945 II, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
+ MKII, MKT, Salamander Deluxe Pack, Parodius Deluxe Pack, Gradius Deluxe Pack.

In this subject, it's interesting to notice that the Saturn can't output resolutions which are 384 wide and 256 wide and the PS1 can. And those were the native resolutions of most of the old Konami and Capcom arcade games.



3D games that are better on Saturn: Powerslave, Wipeout, Mass Destruction, Hexen, Dead or Alive, Tempest 2000
I disagree about Wipeout. 20 fps vs 30 fps on the PS1 kinda hurts the speed sensation; and not full analog support on the Saturn AFAIK. I agree about the Music though.

Duke Nukem 3D also has better looking graphics on the Saturn and more consistent frame rate too. The PS1 version has more content and doesn't have as many simplifications as the Saturn, but in terms of graphics the Saturn one delivers a clearly better experience IMO.

Dead or Alive on the PS1 is based on a later arcade version of the game, so not exactly the same game. But the Saturn port is more impressive IMO as well (higher res, more details, etc).




Better graphics but worse gameplay. The saving is buggy and the controls are messed up.
And you still have to consider the music.

EmperorIng
09-07-2014, 04:16 PM
I didn't know there were enough serious fans of Croc to have a serious argument about it. ;)



In this subject, it's interesting to notice that the Saturn can't output resolutions which are 384 wide and 256 wide and the PS1 can. And those were the native resolutions of most of the old Konami and Capcom arcade games.


Interesting; is that why games like the Capcom Generatons on the Saturn often show a bordered game-screen? Or the Arcade and Arcade Zoom options on the Konami games (e.g. Sexy Parodius, Salamander Deluxe)?

Barone
09-07-2014, 04:21 PM
Yep.

j_factor
09-07-2014, 04:39 PM
I disagree about Wipeout. 20 fps vs 30 fps on the PS1 kinda hurts the speed sensation; and not full analog support on the Saturn AFAIK. I agree about the Music though.

I was under the impression that the Saturn version supported the racing wheel. I still don't have one of those, though. Personally, I detest the neGcon, so that's not really a positive for the Playstation version for me. Neither version supports a "standard" analog controller.

Really the key for me is the difference that ABF described. The later WipEout games play like the Saturn version of the original. The Playstation version is an outlier in the series in terms of handling.


And you still have to consider the music.

Yeah, the music definitely brings down a lot of N64 ports. I really didn't care for the N64 version of Quake.

A Black Falcon
09-07-2014, 04:41 PM
I thought the Playstation version supported the multitap while the Saturn version did not, which is why I said it. If that's not the case, then they're probably equal. And yeah, the N64 version is best, but I said "better" (a word which implies comparison between two alternatives), not best.
The PS1 and Saturn versions are both two player only, yeah. Only the N64 has three player support. Midway's Saturn ports are few and lazy, it must be said, but they didn't cut a 3 player mode from Rampage World Tour compared to the PS1 game it's a port of. At least it doesn't play in a window, like their Saturn ports of Area 51 and Maximum Force (PS1 versions are fullscreen)!


Better graphics but worse gameplay. The saving is buggy and the controls are messed up.
The controls are good. As for buggy saving, not sure what you're talking about there.


I preferred the Saturn version's soundtrack, which contains more original tracks, over the Playstation's heavier use of licensed tracks that I've heard a zillion times. YMMV.
The soundtracks are different? Not sure if I noticed. They're both fine, I guess. I do remember PC/Saturn Wipeout XL having a different soundtrack from the PS1 version, is that what you're thinking of?

Barone
09-07-2014, 04:48 PM
I was under the impression that the Saturn version supported the racing wheel. I still don't have one of those, though. Personally, I detest the neGcon, so that's not really a positive for the Playstation version for me. Neither version supports a "standard" analog controller.
By full analog I mean gas/brake too. It's cool when you have a steering wheel with pedals but the frame rate difference is more important IMO.
I dislike the neGcon as well, but there's a few cheap and well built 3rd party controllers which remap the neGcon twist to regular analog sticks.


Really the key for me is the difference that ABF described. The later WipEout games play like the Saturn version of the original. The Playstation version is an outlier in the series in terms of handling.
That's a pretty valid argument IMO and I wasn't challenging your choice - pretty comprehensible actually.
I think the PS1 version gameplay mechanics is very punitive and is pretty much broken without the analog steering, which required an uncommon controller BITD. So it's a minus, definitely.

The Jackal
09-07-2014, 04:52 PM
I go for both. I'll get the cheapest port first, then hunt down the more expensive one later. My OCD for owning every version of every game I own won't allow me to do otherwise.

Blades
09-07-2014, 05:14 PM
I didn't know there were enough serious fans of Croc to have a serious argument about it. ;)

It's just me and sonicrider really. There used to be a Croc forum though as you might've guessed, it shut down due to lack of traffic a few years ago. The guy running it was strange.

There's an archived fansite around as well. (http://croc.5u.com/)

I thought it was a great game. Very British and atmospheric.

Still waiting for 3.

KnightWarrior
09-07-2014, 05:20 PM
How about the Capcom 2D fighter ports

I think the Saturn wins, Better Framerate & Loading

Bottino
09-07-2014, 05:49 PM
In the Hunt - On PS1 the game has MUCH less slowdown (it's bad on Saturn, minimal on PS1), the game also has a PS1-exclusive CD audio soundtrack option (in addition to the arcade PCM music in both versions), and also supports saving your high scores to the memory card, something the Saturn version stupidly does not have -- no saving there.

DonPachi - Saturn version has worse audio and lots of slowdown

DoDonPachi - Saturn version has more pixelated graphics, making the presentation a bit worse

Strikers 1945 II - much more slowdown on Saturn, and worse general performance as well. The first Strikers 1945 plays better on Saturn than PS1, but it's the reverse for the sequel.

Ah, i see. Thanks for the reply.

j_factor
09-07-2014, 06:07 PM
How about the Capcom 2D fighter ports

I think the Saturn wins, Better Framerate & Loading

The Saturn definitely wins. I would say, though, that Street Fighter Alpha (1) is close. The PSX port of that isn't bad at all. Also, some people say Capcom Generation 5 / Street Fighter Collection 2 is better on Playstation. Personally, I don't really have any interest in that one, though.

Gogogadget
09-07-2014, 08:09 PM
As much as it's preference, I say Saturn wins for fighting games because of the controller.

TrekkiesUnite118
09-07-2014, 09:44 PM
Yep.


+ MKII, MKT, Salamander Deluxe Pack, Parodius Deluxe Pack, Gradius Deluxe Pack.

In this subject, it's interesting to notice that the Saturn can't output resolutions which are 384 wide and 256 wide and the PS1 can. And those were the native resolutions of most of the old Konami and Capcom arcade games.



I disagree about Wipeout. 20 fps vs 30 fps on the PS1 kinda hurts the speed sensation; and not full analog support on the Saturn AFAIK. I agree about the Music though.

Duke Nukem 3D also has better looking graphics on the Saturn and more consistent frame rate too. The PS1 version has more content and doesn't have as many simplifications as the Saturn, but in terms of graphics the Saturn one delivers a clearly better experience IMO.

Dead or Alive on the PS1 is based on a later arcade version of the game, so not exactly the same game. But the Saturn port is more impressive IMO as well (higher res, more details, etc).




And you still have to consider the music.

Actually the older Konami games are 256x224 and 288x224 if I remember correctly. Though Saturn still can't display that natively. The Konami Deluxe packs instead give you the option of running in a letterboxed 256x224/288x224 mode or opening up framing for native 320x224 showing more on the screen.

A Black Falcon
09-07-2014, 11:13 PM
I was under the impression that the Saturn version supported the racing wheel. I still don't have one of those, though. Personally, I detest the neGcon, so that's not really a positive for the Playstation version for me.
Oh, you can play Saturn Wipeout with a wheel, and I've done it because I have the official Saturn wheel and US Saturn Wipeout, the controls just aren't really analog. On Playstation they are. Wipeout XL on Saturn has analog controls, but the first one is digital-only.

As for the neGcon, remember that PS1 racing wheels are neGcon emulators, essentially, so you can use those too. I don't usually like using wheels with racing games, but the option is there for anything with neGcon support, which is most PS1 racing games. Not ALL of them, but most.


Neither version supports a "standard" analog controller.
Not officially... but third-party, you have forgotten about this, clearly! http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?23247-The-Performance-Dual-Impact-Gamepad-for-PS1-Dualshock-neGcon-Compatible-Pad!


Really the key for me is the difference that ABF described. The later WipEout games play like the Saturn version of the original. The Playstation version is an outlier in the series in terms of handling.
Yeah, this is why I prefer the Saturn as well. I wish it had graphics as good as the PS1 version, and the missing analog and two player link cable modes are both quite unfortunate, but the better controls thanks to the hitting-walls fix makes up for all of that.

Specifically about the graphics, though, it's worse on Saturn all around, but the biggest difference are in the special effects, such as weapons and such. On PS1 it uses transparencies and looks great, but on Saturn... it's weak. Special effects probably best show off how bad Sega's missing 3d transparency support was on the Saturn.


Yeah, the music definitely brings down a lot of N64 ports. I really didn't care for the N64 version of Quake.
I only have Quake for the PC. I know it's the best version, so I haven't gotten around to buying the ports yet... but as for Hexen, I have it for PC and N64, and the music seemed similar to the PC music I remember (I got Hexen for PC in the '90s); not quite as good, sure, but good enough to do.


By full analog I mean gas/brake too. It's cool when you have a steering wheel with pedals but the frame rate difference is more important IMO.
I dislike the neGcon as well, but there's a few cheap and well built 3rd party controllers which remap the neGcon twist to regular analog sticks.
Never mind gas and brake, I don't think Saturn Wipeout even has analog turning. I could be wrong, but I don't think it does.

Of course though, I personally don't care much at all about if games support analog gas and braking, I don't like racing sims. Fun racing games are ones where you can keep the accelerator down almost all of the time. :)


That's a pretty valid argument IMO and I wasn't challenging your choice - pretty comprehensible actually.
I think the PS1 version gameplay mechanics is very punitive and is pretty much broken without the analog steering, which required an uncommon controller BITD. So it's a minus, definitely.
This is true, yes. The best Saturn analogies to this would be Hang-On GP and Virtua Racing (Saturn), both of which have pretty bad controls if you don't have the wheel and are entirely incompatible with the 3D Controller or Mission Stick.


How about the Capcom 2D fighter ports

I think the Saturn wins, Better Framerate & Loading
When people say that "the Saturn is better at 2d games", Capcom's games are probably the #1 thing that they mean.

Barone
09-07-2014, 11:24 PM
Have some rep for a change, ABF. Good post.

j_factor
09-08-2014, 02:03 AM
Oh, you can play Saturn Wipeout with a wheel, and I've done it because I have the official Saturn wheel and US Saturn Wipeout, the controls just aren't really analog. On Playstation they are. Wipeout XL on Saturn has analog controls, but the first one is digital-only.

That's odd. So does the Saturn wheel work in digital in general, or is WipEout specifically non-analog wheel compatible?


As for the neGcon, remember that PS1 racing wheels are neGcon emulators, essentially, so you can use those too. I don't usually like using wheels with racing games, but the option is there for anything with neGcon support, which is most PS1 racing games. Not ALL of them, but most.

Yeah, true. Thing is, I'm not crazy about wheel controllers in general, and I especially don't like them for a game that has weapons, or any other functions besides pure racing. Usually the extra buttons are awkward.


Not officially... but third-party, you have forgotten about this, clearly! http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?23247-The-Performance-Dual-Impact-Gamepad-for-PS1-Dualshock-neGcon-Compatible-Pad!

Hah, yes, I did forget about that. I've never actually seen one of those, but I do want one. For WipEout XL if nothing else.


When people say that "the Saturn is better at 2d games", Capcom's games are probably the #1 thing that they mean.

Yeah, I guess Raizing shmups aren't really as high-profile as Street Fighter. :p

Zz Badnusty
09-08-2014, 03:21 AM
When people say that "the Saturn is better at 2d games", Capcom's games are probably the #1 thing that they mean.

I'll always wonder how Harmful Park would have been on the Saturn, and whether Sky Think Systems ever planned a Saturn version, considering two of their Kururuin Pa (http://milky.geocities.jp/shingata_kururinpa/) games are on both Playstation and Saturn.

Barone
09-08-2014, 03:23 AM
That's odd. So does the Saturn wheel work in digital in general, or is WipEout specifically non-analog wheel compatible?
I think it's just a WipEout thing.

However, there are like dozens of similar cases on the PS1. I think it has something to do with US marketing side of things.
Several US covers of PS1 games, and only the US ones, state that such game is compatible with the Analog Joystick (that big one) when they actually just work with its digital mode. Classic example? The Need For Speed (really supports the neGcon though).

A Black Falcon
09-08-2014, 03:34 AM
That's odd. So does the Saturn wheel work in digital in general, or is WipEout specifically non-analog wheel compatible?
It's not the only one. Hi Octane is another racing game that works fine with the Arcade Racer, but car control is definitely not analog. The Mission Stick might just be compatible with digital games, much like how the Mission Stick works fine with most digital-control-only games, albeit with a 'digital' stick instead of a proportional analog one. Or maybe those games were programmed to support it, but they didn't bother with actual analog controls. I don't know which one it is, you'd need to know Saturn controller programming I imagine.

Impact Racing won't work with the Arcade Racer at all, but that's because it requires all the buttons, and the Arcade Racer doesn't have shoulder buttons of course (remember, the two paddles are actually Up and Down on the d-pad).


Yeah, true. Thing is, I'm not crazy about wheel controllers in general, and I especially don't like them for a game that has weapons, or any other functions besides pure racing. Usually the extra buttons are awkward.
The only wheel I actually use with any regularity is actually the Arcade Racer. I almost never use my Playstation or PC racing wheels. Of course it helps make me use it that there are those two games (that I like both of!) that aren't any fun without it, but also it's a nice wheel, and no pedals for me is a good thing... though if I have the choice and they were as good, yeah, I'd probably rather use the Mission Stick or 3D Controller, depending. This is probably why I like the Mission Stick so much in the original version of Daytona USA, and find it so annoying that Daytona Circuit Edition won't work with it -- it's Arcade Racer or 3D Controller only.


Hah, yes, I did forget about that. I've never actually seen one of those, but I do want one. For WipEout XL if nothing else.
It's great, as I say in that thread in Wheel mode you do get more precise analog control in neGcon-supporting games like CTR, Wipeout XL, or R4...


Yeah, I guess Raizing shmups aren't really as high-profile as Street Fighter. :p
What game are you thinking of? Did they do Soukyugurentai? That's supposed to be better on Saturn, yes? That's 3d though...

Kogen
09-08-2014, 04:50 AM
Only get the Saturn versions of mutliplatform games. PS1 has bad video out (worse than Atari 2600) and the Sony controller is like a Mad Catz's SNES knock-off. For 3D games, the Saturn 3D pad is better too, just remember it is not a thumb stick. Alternatively get some missions sticks like a pro. SEGA did analogue before Sony, Sony just ripped it off poorly. They even made their own bad Virtual-On clone (LOL). Also PS1 has poor audio out, Saturn has great audio - look up the specs.

Collision Cat
09-08-2014, 06:53 AM
Only get the Saturn versions of mutliplatform games. PS1 has bad video out (worse than Atari 2600) and the Sony controller is like a Mad Catz's SNES knock-off. For 3D games, the Saturn 3D pad is better too, just remember it is not a thumb stick. Alternatively get some missions sticks like a pro. SEGA did analogue before Sony, Sony just ripped it off poorly. They even made their own bad Virtual-On clone (LOL). Also PS1 has poor audio out, Saturn has great audio - look up the specs.
That post goes perfectly with your signature.

Gogogadget
09-08-2014, 06:58 AM
Only get the Saturn versions of mutliplatform games. PS1 has bad video out (worse than Atari 2600) and the Sony controller is like a Mad Catz's SNES knock-off. For 3D games, the Saturn 3D pad is better too, just remember it is not a thumb stick. Alternatively get some missions sticks like a pro. SEGA did analogue before Sony, Sony just ripped it off poorly. They even made their own bad Virtual-On clone (LOL). Also PS1 has poor audio out, Saturn has great audio - look up the specs.

http://malialitman.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/talking-shit-two.png

Blades
09-08-2014, 10:30 AM
Only get the Saturn versions of mutliplatform games. PS1 has bad video out (worse than Atari 2600) and the Sony controller is like a Mad Catz's SNES knock-off. For 3D games, the Saturn 3D pad is better too, just remember it is not a thumb stick. Alternatively get some missions sticks like a pro. SEGA did analogue before Sony, Sony just ripped it off poorly. They even made their own bad Virtual-On clone (LOL). Also PS1 has poor audio out, Saturn has great audio - look up the specs.

LOL

retrospiel
09-08-2014, 10:51 AM
In this subject, it's interesting to notice that the Saturn can't output resolutions which are 384 wide and 256 wide and the PS1 can.

It is true that PS1 supports the NES = SNES resolution due to its heritage as the SNES CD-ROM drive but I tried looking up whether it also supports 384 like you claim. All I found was that according to Wikipedia PS1 runs at 640x480 and Saturn at 320x224. :nod:

Barone
09-08-2014, 11:56 AM
It is true that PS1 supports the NES = SNES resolution due to its heritage as the SNES CD-ROM drive but I tried looking up whether it also supports 384 like you claim. All I found was that according to Wikipedia PS1 runs at 640x480 and Saturn at 320x224. :nod:
lol
NOWHERE lists all the PS1 resolutions correctly.
The ones I can assure you that exist based on my own tests and which I can remember now (when I arrive at home I can test the other res modes I'm not sure about now):
256 x 224 (The Jumpin Flash games use it, for an example)
320 x 240 (Lots of games, like MKII, MK3 and MKT)
320 x 256 (I think Speed Punks and a few other games use it)
384 x 240 (All 2D Street Fighter games on the system and also MK4 which seems to be using suqare pixels so it looks skinny in a 4:3 TV. Devs probably fucked up and the game will look more "right" in widescreen proportion actually - N64 version runs at 320x240; Critical Blow also uses it IIRC)
384 x 256 (A few 3D games use it, mostly fighting games IIRC)
512 x 256 (Test Drive 5 and a few other 3D games use it)
368 x 480 (Tekken games)
384 x 480 (Some 3D fighting games)
512 x 480 (DOA and a few others)
640 x 480 (Only Internal Section)
640 x 512 (Dead In The Water uses it in its game logo screen, prior the main menu screen. This resolution mode is undocumented AFAIK.)

And then you have the TATE modes. For what I've seen, the PS1 can pretty much "reverse" almost all of those resolutions. By the way, I think it also has the 256x256 mode but I'll need to confirm it later.
Before the PS1, the first home platform to run the capcom games on native res was the X68000 AFAIK. I has a 384x224 mode and uses 256x256 for TATE in some games.

j_factor
09-08-2014, 12:07 PM
I'm pretty sure WipEout 3 is 512 x 240.

bultje112
09-16-2014, 03:13 PM
I used to want to buy Saturn anything, but over time I realized that cost was more important than negligible differences - or in some cases, flat out worse differences (e.g., Resident Evil SAT vs PS1; PS1 wins very clearly, and is about 4/5 cheaper).

Now I know that Saturn Capcom fighters are generally held as best of the best, but in cases like Darkstalkers, or Alpha 3, I don't think these accuracies are enough to go and buy a Saturn over, unless all you are doing is playing fighting games (do they even play Alpha 3 or Darkstalkers at tournaments?). Plus PS1 has some good exclusives of its own like Rival Schools and Marvel Vs. Capcom. Or you can just get all the good fighting games on the DC and skip the Saturn entirely.

So in general, I go for PS1. There aren't enough Saturn-dominating cross-plats to justify the extra expense. If you can play imports on your PS1/2, then you've solved the one major advantage for the Saturn, which is ease of playing imports.

Granted, I am talking all about NTSC-U and NTSC-J games, so I have no clue how PAL is figured into the mix (probably to everyone's detriment; sorry!).

not again the bullshit that resident evil 1 looks worse on saturn than on psx.....

j_factor
09-16-2014, 09:49 PM
With the Saturn port of RE, they just messed up the model on a grandfather clock that appears in one spot. People love to harp on that one clock, but otherwise it's not a bad port.

EmperorIng
09-16-2014, 11:42 PM
You decide between paying $15 for RE1 (if not $5) on PS1, compared to the $30-50 for RE1 on the Saturn. Can you tell me the Saturn version is worth twice as much (if not more) as the PS1 version? Be honest with yourselves.

j_factor
09-17-2014, 12:42 AM
It's not, but by that logic you should just get the Gamecube remake and nevermind either version.

I have RE1 for the Saturn, but I got it for $7 8-10 years ago. I do like the extra game mode that it has, but I'm not sure that I'd buy it for the price it goes for today.

EmperorIng
09-17-2014, 02:14 AM
People assume that complaints are only superficially based off that one comparison webpage. There's also the issue of longer loading times and in general it just feels like a clunkier experience. And the Saturn version doesn't even have the improved Director's Cut.

I'd say RE1: Director's Cut (not the dualshock version) offers enough different from the REmake to justify its own existence, though both are fantastic games.

In my original post, which bultje angrily reacted to, I am more or less saying that given a choice between a PS1 and a Saturn multiplat, unless the differences can actually justify the costs, there is no reason these days to put down for the Saturn version. MM8? Yeah, two new bosses, but that's not a big deal. MMX4? Virtually identical (and you can just get the X Collection anyhow). Both of those games can go for the triple digits because fools can easily be grifted by smart ebay sellers. Same idea with people selling RE1 (the lesser version at that) for the Saturn for $50.

Again, this topic is about "which do you pick of the two?"

bultje112
09-17-2014, 03:28 AM
if you think resident evil 1 on psx looks better than the saturn version by quite a bit then you are either blind or insane. the discussion can be had at best that either version looks marginally better than the other. imo the saturn versions looks a little better because of the more vibrant colors

anyway I have the gamecube version, which is by far the best

Jeckidy
09-17-2014, 11:13 AM
I have played all three versions of the original Croc, and honestly feel the Saturn version is by far the worst. The PC one, which I have been playing as of late, has the best graphics and features, but the PS1 version has the best analog controls. Comparing the Saturn version to the PSX version was like breathing fresh air. I wouldn't want to get stuck with that one by any means.

j_factor
09-17-2014, 11:34 AM
In my original post, which bultje angrily reacted to, I am more or less saying that given a choice between a PS1 and a Saturn multiplat, unless the differences can actually justify the costs, there is no reason these days to put down for the Saturn version.

That's an assertion of practicality that doesn't make for very interesting discussion. "Playstation is cheaper, the end." I'd rather talk about the differences and see which version is better, regardless of cost.


Again, this topic is about "which do you pick of the two?"

Except some of us already own games. I'm not going to go through the hassle of putting up a Saturn game on eBay and buying the Playstation version, just to pocket the $15 difference because the Saturn version is "too expensive" and the Playstation version is almost as good.

Besides, prices fluctuate. I'm sorry I don't keep up on current market values of every game, but I don't wish to check eBay listings before participating in a discussion on the differences in multiplatform titles. The going rate isn't gospel either; sometimes you find a deal, or sometimes you can get the Japanese version for a lot less.

EmperorIng
09-17-2014, 03:54 PM
if you think resident evil 1 on psx looks better than the saturn version by quite a bit then you are either blind or insane. the discussion can be had at best that either version looks marginally better than the other. imo the saturn versions looks a little better because of the more vibrant colors

anyway I have the gamecube version, which is by far the best

Remember in my post where I didn't talk about graphics at all? To bring up graphics: you say "vibrant colors," I say "unable to do decent lighting." That will probably trigger an angry response where you'll forget, for the third time, that I am talking about the game as a whole.


That's an assertion of practicality that doesn't make for very interesting discussion. "Playstation is cheaper, the end." I'd rather talk about the differences and see which version is better, regardless of cost.

You got it in my post. Playstation version is better. And cheaper. End of discussion!


Except some of us already own games. I'm not going to go through the hassle of putting up a Saturn game on eBay and buying the Playstation version, just to pocket the $15 difference because the Saturn version is "too expensive" and the Playstation version is almost as good.

We're talking about a game that's like, 18 years old. Most of us have played it, or played the GC (and now soon-to-be-PC) remake. Price wasn't the only thing I mentioned. I'm talking about general content. Saturn RE is barebones vanilla RE, lacking the arranged modes of the later releases, and not as strong a title on the Saturn library. It's a safer bet to recommend Deep Fear as literally "the poor man's Resident Evil" because it is more optimized for the Saturn, even if it isn't half as fun as Resident Evil (it is one of the best shit games I have played for the saturn, a system with a lot of shitty games). What does RE1 offer the Saturn that RE1 on the PS1 doesn't offer better? That's the question to ask. Is it cheaper? No. Does it run faster? No. Is it filled with extra exclusive content? It has battle mode, but lacks the improvements on RE that made the later releases worthwhile. You might as well sell the game on ebay and pocket the cash for more worthwhile things, unless you have a strong bond of nostalgia for vanilla RE1. I admit fully that my recent purchase of Director's Cut was fueled by the nostalgia to replay a game I had beaten years ago many many times.


Besides, prices fluctuate. I'm sorry I don't keep up on current market values of every game, but I don't wish to check eBay listings before participating in a discussion on the differences in multiplatform titles. The going rate isn't gospel either; sometimes you find a deal, or sometimes you can get the Japanese version for a lot less.

Unless you know Japanese, I think you lose out on a lot in RE without being able to read the flavor text. The game demands you to soak in its atmosphere, and you'd be poorer for not doing so, if the Japanese RE1 was your first go.

As for price, see above. It's worth talking about, or at least mentioning, in a system that quickly became, in the last four or so years, more for collectors than people who enjoy video-games.

Gogogadget
09-17-2014, 04:42 PM
Saturn RE Battle Mode really isn't that fun, it's nowhere near as good as Extreme Battle from RE2 or the Mercenaries mode from RE3.

j_factor
09-17-2014, 11:13 PM
We're talking about a game that's like, 18 years old. Most of us have played it, or played the GC (and now soon-to-be-PC) remake. Price wasn't the only thing I mentioned. I'm talking about general content. Saturn RE is barebones vanilla RE, lacking the arranged modes of the later releases, and not as strong a title on the Saturn library. It's a safer bet to recommend Deep Fear as literally "the poor man's Resident Evil" because it is more optimized for the Saturn, even if it isn't half as fun as Resident Evil (it is one of the best shit games I have played for the saturn, a system with a lot of shitty games). What does RE1 offer the Saturn that RE1 on the PS1 doesn't offer better? That's the question to ask. Is it cheaper? No. Does it run faster? No. Is it filled with extra exclusive content? It has battle mode, but lacks the improvements on RE that made the later releases worthwhile. You might as well sell the game on ebay and pocket the cash for more worthwhile things, unless you have a strong bond of nostalgia for vanilla RE1. I admit fully that my recent purchase of Director's Cut was fueled by the nostalgia to replay a game I had beaten years ago many many times.

Unless you know Japanese, I think you lose out on a lot in RE without being able to read the flavor text. The game demands you to soak in its atmosphere, and you'd be poorer for not doing so, if the Japanese RE1 was your first go.

As for price, see above. It's worth talking about, or at least mentioning, in a system that quickly became, in the last four or so years, more for collectors than people who enjoy video-games.

Uh... what? We weren't just talking about RE. I was responding to your post that said "given a choice between a PS1 and a Saturn multiplat..." and then you used Mega Man for examples. I don't think you'd miss much playing Rockman 8 in Japanese.

EmperorIng
09-18-2014, 01:40 AM
You'd miss out on the horrendous Voice Acting. Well you'd still have lousy high-pitched Japanese voices though.

Most of the discussion has been about RE1. Bringing the Mega Man games back into the equation, there's nothing they offer that isn't offered (and cheaper) on the PS1. MM8 has a slight distinction of a teensy-bit of extra content, but not enough to make the game leaps and bounds ahead of its counterpart. And honestly it's not like 8 is the high-point of Mega Man action anyhow. The choice seems pretty clear: Saturn for "collectors," PS1/PS2 compilations for people who want to just play the game.

My point is that you have to see what you are willing to tolerate to just enjoy the game. Can you tolerate a few frames of animation missing in a fighting game (me: yes)? Can you tolerate the removal of two cameo mid-bosses (me: yes)? Can you handle slightly inferior audio samples like in Thunder Force V (me: yes)?

These niggling details speak to by-and-large how slight the differences between some of these multiplatform games are: they are not as big a deal as people would make them out to be, for the most part. That's when you look at the extra added dimension of cost. Yeah, JPN Rockman is cheaper, but PS1 MM8 is pennies.

j_factor
09-18-2014, 02:39 AM
These niggling details speak to by-and-large how slight the differences between some of these multiplatform games are: they are not as big a deal as people would make them out to be, for the most part. That's when you look at the extra added dimension of cost. Yeah, JPN Rockman is cheaper, but PS1 MM8 is pennies.

I sure wasn't ever encountering this sentiment a few years ago when Saturn games weren't so expensive. Take cost out of the conversation and the common compulsion is to put the Playstation versions on a pedestal (minus the clear cases of Saturn superiority like X-Men vs. SF). I remember being told that Mega Man 8 on Playstation trumps the Saturn version because of a transparency effect seen in one brief section, and the animated FMV sequences look slightly cleaner.

EmperorIng
09-18-2014, 02:48 AM
You have to ask yourself if the differences really lend superiority to one version over the other. All I am saying is that what people now tout as superiority in the Saturn ports is not so clear-cut. It obviously was not clear-cut a few years ago, as you yourself noticed. Tastes change, or new groups of people/consumers gain ascendancy, at least in niche circles. Think about how your (and my and others') posts are even now subtly affecting the used-game market for Saturn games. :cool:

If you take cost out of the conversation, you are mostly left with equitable games. This is ok - you can choose which system you prefer to support. But then add the second-hand market. Then add the general exclusive libraries between the two. That's when the picture changes. What matters to you as a gamer at that point? That's what you have to ask yourself.

TailsCD
09-18-2014, 05:53 PM
I have RE 1 Director's Cut Dualshock Edition for the PS1. Haven't really gotten the chance to play too much of it though. I was going to get the Saturn version, but felt like I would be missing out on the extra content of the Director's Cut.

I bought the PS1 copy of Destruction Derby and I was disappointed. Glad I only paid $10 for it and not the higher price I would've paid for the Saturn version on ebay.

My Saturn library is pretty small: Nights into Dreams and NHL Powerplay Hockey. I had Virtua Fighter 2, but lost it (I didn't really like it anyway though). I had some Japanese titles, but they weren't that great so I sold them (though I think I lost track of one of them). I had one European title, Dragon Ball Z: The Legend, but I sold that one too because I didn't like the game. Out of all the games I still have, Nights is the only one I kind of like. I'm sure there are other good games, but I haven't found them yet (my local game store doesn't have any Saturn stuff, so I'm limited to ebay, and looking at ebay just isn't the same as browsing the shelves at a physical store, IMO. I find ebay harder to look at when you don't have a specific game in mind). I'll probably get Sonic Jam and Sonic R, but other than that I don't know.

EmperorIng
09-18-2014, 09:41 PM
Man, I know you might be a Sonic fan, but Sonic R is not worth it.

I'd rather recommend somewhat cheap games like GunGriffon, Japanese Saturn Bomberman, and Darius Gaiden.

SpaceHarrier
09-19-2014, 12:05 AM
Just read a few posts here & there are some interesting things but also some really wrong ones...



Can you handle slightly inferior audio samples like in Thunder Force V (me: yes)?
You think it's the only difference?


Anyway if it can help, the following games are superior on Saturn (Feel free to ask for some details (When i remember / have them :p)) :

Thunder Force V
Darius Gaiden
Silhouette Mirage
Strikers 1945
Mass Destruction
Vampire Savior
X-Men : Children of the Atom
X-Men vs. Street Fighter
Primal Rage
Soviet Strike
RockMan 8
Gunbird
Metal Slug
Night Striker (Called Night Striker S on Sat', awesome game!)
& all Langrisser games



While the following ones are superior on PS1 :

Strikers 1945 II
Capcom Generation 1; 3 & 4



Special cases :

Capcom Generation 2 -> Ghosts 'n Goblins & Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts best on PS1 but Ghouls 'n Ghosts best on Saturn.



I'm not really into Tomb Raider of Croc so that's why they don't appear here.

Also i guess Destruction Derby is better on PS1?

& Rockman X4 seems clearly better on Saturn but i need to dig more this one...


Also LOL@Sat' "is for collectors" like if, it's not a system for gamers? :D It's easily one of the best console ever made which only real flaw is that most of its RPGs / adventure games have stayed in Japan.

Barone
09-19-2014, 12:13 AM
Feel free to ask for some details (When i remember / have them :p))
Your details would be very welcome here:
http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?24965-Genre-by-Genre-Sega-Saturn-and-Sony-Playstation-worldwide-libraries-comparison

:p

EmperorIng
09-19-2014, 12:31 AM
Indeed; gotta share the wealth.



You think it's the only difference?
No, but since I don't play Thunder Force for score the changes to Free Range, as stupid as they are, don't bother me.


& Rockman X4 seems clearly better on Saturn but i need to dig more this one...
Some backgrounds look a little nicer? It's meaningless - they are virtually identical.


Also LOL@Sat' "is for collectors" like if, it's not a system for gamers? :D It's easily one of the best console ever made which only real flaw is that most of its RPGs / adventure games have stayed in Japan.

I said "quickly became in the last four years a system for collectors." I don't think whatever differences MMX4 has in the Saturn port doesn't correspond to its current price! I can't agree, even as a Saturn owner, to the statement "one of the best consoles ever made." It has good arcade ports (that can often be found elsewhere nowadays, or just MAME), a lousy exclusive library, and its exclusives lack the personality and appeal that characterizes Sega's games in the 16bit and Dreamcast eras. Again, speaking as a Saturn owner - I love Night Striker S.

But keep on fighting the good fight, I guess? I never said Saturn games were inferior (some clearly are better on the Saturn) - I am saying the larger run, those differences don't count for much! In the larger topic of multiplats, the special features of Saturn games are less and less meaningful as long as the core game remains the same.

zetastrike
09-19-2014, 12:43 AM
I can't wrap my head around shelling out whatever MMX4 goes for on the Saturn. Pricecharting has it $18.16 vs $89.00 CIB for what that's worth. You're paying 5x as much so you can use a different controller?

I do want to play MM8 on the Saturn, for the bosses and the differently arranged OST, but I'll keep my eyes peeled for a Japanese copy. I'm curious to hear the Japanese voice cast anyhow.

EmperorIng
09-19-2014, 12:52 AM
Not to mention the X collection, which is an excellent (x-cellent?) compilation of X1-X6, that can be had for ~$10.

Segadream
09-19-2014, 01:44 AM
Warcraft 2 on Saturn is superior to the ps1 version in my opinion.
The graphics are represented better to me.
And the controls seem more adapted to the Saturn controller.

SpaceHarrier
09-19-2014, 03:37 AM
No, but since I don't play Thunder Force for score the changes to Free Range, as stupid as they are, don't bother me.
There are also a LOT of graphical differences. In comparison to the Saturn version the PS1 port looks really crappy in some places like stages 2; 3 or 4 it's like night & day. But the PS1 port has an exclusive mode & new video sequence. In short : the Saturn version is the real deal but the PS1 port has its own little touches which can still make it interesting.




Some backgrounds look a little nicer? It's meaningless - they are virtually identical.
Overall The differences aren't as notable as in RockMan 8.
Also Saturn RockMan X4 has a bit more music & better "music engine" + faster loadings.




I said "quickly became in the last four years a system for collectors." I don't think whatever differences MMX4 has in the Saturn port doesn't correspond to its current price! I can't agree, even as a Saturn owner, to the statement "one of the best consoles ever made." It has good arcade ports (that can often be found elsewhere nowadays, or just MAME), a lousy exclusive library, and its exclusives lack the personality and appeal that characterizes Sega's games in the 16bit and Dreamcast eras. Again, speaking as a Saturn owner - I love Night Striker S.
1st : The price mean nothing.

2nd : when you take a system in consideration you don't have to take in account emulators otherwise ALL systems are "worth nothing" one day or another.

& now the reasons why this system rocks so hard :
- It has a lot of superb Arcade ports (It's SEGA, not Nintendo nor Sony so it's kind of natural for it to be more Arcade focused);
- Quite a good amount of great to awesome exclusives;
- There are a lot of superior versions on it, sometimes even over the Arcade originals & in many instances over some home systems of its gen' (I can add to my previous list that Sōkyūgurentai is better on Saturn too (But in this case the PS1 port is a bit more interesting than PS1 TF V is) & Street Racer Extra also seems better on Sat'...);
- The system itself is reliable + its controllers are perfect;
- There are some great accessories for it like the Virtua Stick / Virtua Stick Pro; the 3D Control Pad or the Twin Stick;
- & also the fact that it has a lot of 2D games that will always be beautiful to look at unlike some 3D games...
(& it is also, of course, a great system for collectors with all its variants; etc...)
= One of the best system ever IMO along with the [Mega Drive + its two add-ons]; the SNES & the PS1.


& now let's talk about the games...

Some of the best Saturn exclusives :

Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Blast Wind
Shinrei Jusatsushi Tarōmaru
Guardian Heroes
Saturn Bomberman (Best bomberman ever)




+ Also the Saturn share some awesome games with the ST-V Arcade board & can be considered as exclusives. Here are my fav' among them :

Radiant Silvergun (Which is not only an amazing (but not for everyone) shooter & has also been amazingly upgraded over the original)
Guardian Force
Cotton 2 (Which adds a Saturn mode over the ST-V version)*
Cotton Boomerang (Which adds only a few things but still)*
Astra Superstars
Purikura Daisakusen
Dynamite Deka
Groove On Fight


*(While Marchen Adventure Cotton 100% on PS1, a 16-bit game ported to a 32-bit system, not only adds nothing but has gameplay flaw / downgrade -> LOL)


+ A HUGE load of great to awesome Arcade ports & the ones i love the most are :

Hyper Duel (Here too huge upgrade over the original)
Battle Garegga
Layer Section (Better music than the orignal + played on tate it's visually improved over the yoko mode & henceforth perfect)
Night Striker S (Best port)
Metal Black
Batsugun
Gokujō Parodius!
Jikkyō Oshaberi Parodius
Sexy Parodius
Game Tengoku - The Game Paradise (Another game which is better than the Arcade version thanx to the Saturn mode which comes with new stages + adds cutscenes + the VHS package version is neat)
Twinkle Star Sprites
Sega Rally
Virtua Fighter 2
Tengai
Bubble Symphony


Etc etc etc...
+ All the SEGA ages incl. OutRun best version; After Burner II & Space Harrier in almost perfect form & very good ports of Galaxy Force II & Power Drift.


+ So many more :

Thunder Force V (best version)
Panzer Dragoon
NiGHTS into Dreams
Cyber Troopers Virtual-On
Stellar Assault SS
Silhouette Mirage (best version)
Shin Shinobi Den
Clockwork Knight 1 & 2
Deep Fear
Super Tempo
Wachenröder
Digital Pinball : Necronomicon


etc...

There's no doubt for me that this system is both dope & top class, timeless stuff 8)




But keep on fighting the good fight, I guess? I never said Saturn games were inferior (some clearly are better on the Saturn) - I am saying the larger run, those differences don't count for much! In the larger topic of multiplats, the special features of Saturn games are less and less meaningful as long as the core game remains the same.
I see no problem in debating ;)
& for the differences between multiplat' games, it's both interesting & fun &, as i said in another topic, it can improve your overall experience / pleasure so, except maybe when the price is really abused, there's no reason to hesitate to pick what is the best version whether for minor or huge differences.

j_factor
09-19-2014, 03:54 AM
Although price is certainly worth mentioning, I don't like the idea that a conversation about the differences between two versions of a game must be framed around the average price that they go for right now. As if the sole purpose of any comparison is for people who currently own neither and are interested in buying the game today. Because then it just becomes a case of doing an eBay search, and unless the price is similar, you stop right there. I think the actual differences, even if relatively small, are still worth talking about for their own sake. Regardless of platform. Even in the worst case scenario -- say, a $400 Jaguar game that's also on the Genesis for $10, when I don't even own a Jaguar or plan on getting one anytime soon -- I still want to know what the differences are, whether the Jaguar version is better and in what ways, even if the differences are not vast. And if the Jaguar version turns out to be superior, even marginally so, I will have no problem accepting its status as the superior version; I'm not going to go "but the price!" or slam the guy posting about it for being loose with his money or whatever. I will then feel free to bitch about the price when the merits of Jaguar collecting becomes the subject at hand -- but not when the subject is the differences in the game between platforms. A difference in price reflects a difference in supply and demand, it's not a "difference" in the actual game.

And I don't agree with Saturn being "a system for collectors" either, or at least, not to any greater extent than the Playstation is. If you're seeking out used copies of games released in 1997, you're probably a collector. Even if you get the cheaper one! Collecting $20 games is not any less "collecting" than collecting $80 games. Playstation collectors are still collectors, they just have it a bit easier than Saturn collectors. If you're going to be all "not a collector" about it, you'll be playing your 1997 games on PSN or GOG or something, short of just pirating everything, if you even play old games at all.

SpaceHarrier
09-19-2014, 04:54 AM
The price is indeed worth mentioning but must not be taking in consideration in a comparison. It's an external factor.



Warcraft 2 on Saturn is superior to the ps1 version in my opinion.
The graphics are represented better to me.
And the controls seem more adapted to the Saturn controller.
I copied / pasted this somewhere & will check it later!

Also i remember that Grandia seemed to be another one better on Saturn but it's a Japanese only release while the PS1 has international versions of it.

Bloodreign
09-19-2014, 06:11 AM
Ghouls N Ghosts on PS1 and Saturn both have their flaws. I hate the longer pre-level loading on the Saturn version, and the PS1 version may have shorter load times, but the backgrounds are far too dark.

I have both because I love the series, and wanted both Capcom Generation 2 versions.

Yharnamresident
09-19-2014, 09:43 AM
Ghouls N Ghosts on PS1 and Saturn both have their flaws. I hate the longer pre-level loading on the Saturn version, and the PS1 version may have shorter load times, but the backgrounds are far too dark.

I have both because I love the series, and wanted both Capcom Generation 2 versions.And probably the definitive version.

j_factor
09-19-2014, 11:26 AM
What you need is the X68000 version. That's the money port. Everything else is small potatoes.

Zz Badnusty
09-19-2014, 02:20 PM
I've mentioned this before is other Saturn comparison threads, the Saturn provides an easier and more immediate gaming experience. There are the exceptions where load times are longer on Saturn. But what I'm talking about is the time from when I decide I want to play a game to the actual moment I'm actually playing. Saturn is more "pick-up-n-play" than PlayStation.

With its internal memory I don't have to locate the appropriate memory card. With PlayStation I'm more likely to have a dozen memory cards to fiddle through.

PlayStation often requires that I dig out and select an appropriate controller for a particular game (which can be a good thing, in the case of Block Kuzushi games, or something like Power Shovel). Saturn I'm almost always going to use the stock pad, or sometimes the 3d pad, and once in a blue moon the Twin Sticks.

Another significant aspect that lends more immediate enjoyment with Saturn is that startup logos and splash screens are always(?) skipable on Saturn by pressing start button. Many PlayStation games require that the player watch multiple splash screens before even getting to a game start screen.

Barone
09-19-2014, 03:06 PM
Once, in the past, I disagreed when you wrote that Zz, but you're right and I was wrong.

It's exactly like you said. The Saturn is more robust all around from the user perspective IMO. Less stuff to worry about when you going to play a game.
The PS1 has awesome and crazy accessories which appeal a lot to a controller nut like me but, seriously, the two default controllers of the Saturn are awesome (the 2D pad and the 3D one) while the PS1's suck in several aspects.
The laser assembly of most of the PS1 models is very iffy too, while Model 2 Saturn is pretty much rock solid - aside from the cartridge slot depending on the usage you give to it.
Etc... Several little details which makes the Saturn rank a lot higher than the PS1 in terms of pick-up-n-play.

stu
09-19-2014, 08:28 PM
Once, in the past, I disagreed when you wrote that Zz, but you're right and I was wrong.

It's exactly like you said. The Saturn is more robust all around from the user perspective IMO. Less stuff to worry about when you going to play a game.
The PS1 has awesome and crazy accessories which appeal a lot to a controller nut like me but, seriously, the two default controllers of the Saturn are awesome (the 2D pad and the 3D one) while the PS1's suck in several aspects.
The laser assembly of most of the PS1 models is very iffy too, while Model 2 Saturn is pretty much rock solid - aside from the cartridge slot depending on the usage you give to it.
Etc... Several little details which makes the Saturn rank a lot higher than the PS1 in terms of pick-up-n-play.



I pretty much agree with the comment regarding the PS1 controllers, the lack of diagonals imo in particular was a major issue. I remember buying SF Alpha and trying it with the standard PS controller, I think it was only maybe a couple of days after I got the game that I felt the need to go out to the store and pick up a controller with a proper diagonal pad on it. I have to admit that I never experienced any issues with my original PS1, but I know a lot of others have. In comparison to the Saturn, well I don't have a whole lot of experience with the system, but since the controller was a development of the excellent Genesis 6 button pad, I can imagine its great for SF games, and obviously others too.

Blades
09-26-2014, 05:02 AM
The PC one, which I have been playing as of late, has the best graphics and features.

No it doesn't. Even if you have one of the ancient video cards, the PSX version is superior. The PC version doesn't have colored lighting or the full soundtrack, among other things. Croc was designed for the PSX, PC Croc was a port.

There are two PC Crocs, which are you talking about?