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Lync
12-28-2014, 07:08 PM
I'm interested in finding a solid 2D fighter for the Saturn and in my crossings found that most signs point to Street Fighter Alpha 2 as being a fantastic, if not the essential, of 90's 2D fighting games for the system. I'm new to the whole Alpha series and don't care much about cross-overs much more imports.

The problem begins when I discover this Street Fighter Alpha 2 Gold version is in a Saturn Street Fighter Collection edition. The price tag is astounding and I've heard mixed reviews about the Super Street Fighter II / X ports. Further, that the Sony Playstation 1 also has the same releases but at a much more reasonable price.

I typically don't like asking someone to 'pick a game for me' but I'm 20 years late and already lost exploring this 32bit era. Between Street Fighter Alpha 2 and the Collection Gold, which is preferred and then further, Saturn or PS1?



Ugh. My head hurts from all of these different Street Fighter releases and console ports... :daze:

Lastcallhall
12-28-2014, 07:12 PM
I wound up buying Street Fighter Alpha 1 for the Saturn back in 96, and I never regretted it. I did, however, switch over to the PSX for the Street Fighter collection series, as well as Alpha 3 (initially). I stand by my choice for the collection series, but I really wish I had imported Alpha/Zero 3 for the Saturn with the 4MB cart back in the day. That version, to me, is the closest version to the arcade, even more so than the Dreamcast version.

TrekkiesUnite118
12-28-2014, 09:57 PM
The PS1 version of Alpha 2 Gold is by far better than the original port of Alpha 2 for the PS1. For Alpha 2 the PS1 version has less animation and background effects than the Saturn version, the intro is an FMV, and it also has crippling slowdown. For Alpha 2 Gold, they fixed the slowdown issues and made some background improvements for the PS1 version while making the intro a real time animation like the Saturn and Arcade versions. Though the Saturn version is still better, the PS1 version is at least respectable.

Basically the Super Street Fighter 2 ports aren't perfect, but decent. There's some slowdown in Turbo on the Saturn, not sure if it's there on the PS1 or not. And the end credits don't switch characters like they do in the arcade. There's also some really technical differences like move rebalancing, but that's in every port.

If you can get the Saturn collection for a good price go for it, if not the PS1 version is acceptable. Though for the standard Alpha 2, definitely get the Saturn Version.

For Alpha 2 vs Alpha 2 Gold, basically there's some slight rebalancing and you can play as Cammy. That's about it as far as I know.

Sega90s
12-28-2014, 10:40 PM
I have both the ps1 and saturn versions with the saturn ones being far superior. The collection with SSF2/Turbo, Alpha 2 gold have significantly shorter loading times and the correct arcade resolution on the saturn. The sprites and screen area on the saturn version is also wider and not resized to fit the screen like the ps1 version. I have noticed this in most capcom fighting games from that era I own.

TrekkiesUnite118
12-28-2014, 10:54 PM
I have both the ps1 and saturn versions with the saturn ones being far superior. The collection with SSF2/Turbo, Alpha 2 gold have significantly shorter loading times and the correct arcade resolution on the saturn. The sprites and screen area on the saturn version is also wider and not resized to fit the screen like the ps1 version. I have noticed this in most capcom fighting games from that era I own.

That's impossible. The Saturn doesn't support the 384x224 resolution the CPS2 uses. The PS1 actually does support that, and the CPS2 ports run in native resolution on the PS1. The sprites are the correct size on the PS1. They look smaller because there's more horizontal squeezing going on when you take 384x224 and squeeze it to 4:3 vs doing the same with 352x224 (What the Saturn ports run at). For this aspect the PS1 version is actually arcade accurate and the Saturn port is the one that's inaccurate.

Don't get me wrong, the Saturn ports are great and their advantages far trump this minor issue. But this bit of misinformation needs to stop being spread around.

j_factor
12-28-2014, 11:24 PM
Alpha 2 Gold adds an "Akuma Mode" where you fight Akuma in every stage. It loses an art gallery of 100 illustrations that is included in regular Alpha 2. Neither is a big deal. Cammy is nice, though. The back of the box says "new animation, moves, and modes of play" but I'd need a guide to figure out what the new moves are, since the manual doesn't list any new moves.


That's impossible. The Saturn doesn't support the 384x224 resolution the CPS2 uses. The PS1 actually does support that, and the CPS2 ports run in native resolution on the PS1. The sprites are the correct size on the PS1. They look smaller because there's more horizontal squeezing going on when you take 384x224 and squeeze it to 4:3 vs doing the same with 352x224 (What the Saturn ports run at). For this aspect the PS1 version is actually arcade accurate and the Saturn port is the one that's inaccurate.

Don't get me wrong, the Saturn ports are great and their advantages far trump this minor issue. But this bit of misinformation needs to stop being spread around.

The Saturn port has an "arcade resolution" option, which the manual warns may cut off part of the display, depending on your TV. If the Saturn doesn't support that resolution, I wonder what that option actually does.

TrekkiesUnite118
12-29-2014, 12:13 AM
The Saturn port has an "arcade resolution" option, which the manual warns may cut off part of the display, depending on your TV. If the Saturn doesn't support that resolution, I wonder what that option actually does.

When the option is off the screen boundaries are pulled in more. So when you reach the edge of the screen your character doesn't get cut off. However this can have a detrimental effect on gameplay as moves that didn't used to reach across the screen now can. Arcade resolution puts the boundaries where they should be but the result is up to 3/4 of your character can get cut off when both characters are on the complete opposite side of the screen. On older TV's with aggressive overscan that could end up with the entire character going off screen.

WoodyXP
12-29-2014, 12:51 AM
Get SF Zero 3 and you're set.

TrekkiesUnite118
12-29-2014, 01:04 AM
Get SF Zero 3 and you're set.

I shudder at the thought of what that costs now. My copy years ago cost me about $80.

Bloodreign
12-29-2014, 01:16 AM
I had to wind up getting Alpha 2 Gold on PS1, one because I found it locally, two it was under 30 bucks for Street Fighter Collection Vol 1 (has both Super SF versions, plus the bonus Alpha 2 Gold. Cammy can't be used in 1 player mode however till the PS2 SF Alpha Anthology). I already had Alpha 2 on the PS1 and Saturn, but I picked this up because that's how I am when it comes to various ports (same way I'll likely do for the 32 bit era KoF titles). Alpha/Zero 3 on Saturn is wonderful, it's price however, isn't wonderful, it's atrocious. I remedied my situation by having SF Alpha Anthology, which has the vanilla Alpha 3, and the updated Alpha 3 Upper (once I played this, I couldn't go back to regular Alpha 3, it feels hollow to me now), which is hidden and unlocked after either beating, or losing to Bison in Alpha 3. That version is no longer the most up to date version as the PSP had Alpha 3 Max with 4 more characters available, one never before seen in a regular Street Fighter game (Ingrid).

Zero 3 Saturn for me falls in the same category as KoF Unlimited Match 2002 Tougeki PS2 version, great game marred by a ridiculous asking price for admission. Both are excellent games, but will kill your wallet, but if you truly want Zero 3, you'll pay whatever you want for it.

Sega90s
12-29-2014, 01:25 AM
I stand corrected the saturn version is not in arcade resolution,but the sprites are still larger than the ps1 and not squished. I have played both versions and definitely prefer the larger sprites ,less cut frames of animation, and saturn d-pad.The ps1 does have two advantages better voices and transparencies(SFZ3 for example). Does the arcade screen option really do that? When I tried it I didnt think it did anything different.

TrekkiesUnite118
12-29-2014, 01:35 AM
That version is no longer the most up to date version as the PSP had Alpha 3 Max with 4 more characters available, one never before seen in a regular Street Fighter game (Ingrid).

The PSP port is solid and the extra characters are nice, but the god awful Playstation D-Pad makes it almost unplayable for me. For that reason alone I prefer the Saturn port.


I stand corrected the saturn version is not in arcade resolution,but the sprites are still larger than the ps1 and not squished. I have played both versions and definitely prefer the larger sprites ,less cut frames of animation, and saturn d-pad.The ps1 does have two advantages better voices and transparencies(SFZ3 for example).

The sprites aren't any bigger on the Saturn. They are the exact same size. They look fatter because of the overall resolution difference.



Does the arcade screen option really do that? When I tried it I didnt think it did anything different.

Visually you wont see a difference. The difference is in how far off the screen your character can go.

Bibin
12-29-2014, 09:59 AM
What? SF collection is cheap, so long as you are buying for the correct region.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Sega-Saturn-Street-Fighter-Collection-Japan-Import-/301379570528?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item462b9f4b60

The Zero 2 / Alpha 2 disc is supposedly both US and JP compatible, by the way.

j_factor
12-29-2014, 11:02 AM
Yeah, this is one game where getting the Japanese version is really no loss. The menus are in English. Even the manual is fairly minimal. Looking at sold listings, that one you're linking is really on the high end for the Japanese version.

chinitosoccer
12-29-2014, 11:18 AM
That's impossible. The Saturn doesn't support the 384x224 resolution the CPS2 uses.

It doesn't matter, the Saturn ports of CPS1/2 games all run at some weird resolution of 400x240 or something like that, I don't remember the exact resolution but it was something like that, it's just that all the graphics are drawn using only the 384x224 lines needed for those games, how I know that? because I used to have my Saturn connected to one of those Extron RGB interfaces equipped with an lcd display showing each signal resolution input.

fluxcore
12-29-2014, 01:48 PM
Just an aside to say that SF Zero 2 (Japanese version of Alpha 2) is very cheap from Japan.

My only dislike of the Saturn port is that it has load times :(

Barone
12-29-2014, 02:20 PM
It doesn't matter, the Saturn ports of CPS1/2 games all run at some weird resolution of 400x240 or something like that, I don't remember the exact resolution but it was something like that, it's just that all the graphics are drawn using only the 384x224 lines needed for those games, how I know that? because I used to have my Saturn connected to one of those Extron RGB interfaces equipped with an lcd display showing each signal resolution input.
Wrong.
The Saturn ports of Capcom games run at 352 x 224, so you DO have small cuts at the left and right boundaries of the screen.
The sprites thus look a bit "fatter" on the Saturn versions and that's why a lot people claim that its versions use bigger sprites, but that is also wrong.

I pretty much confirm everything that Trekkies said in the previous posts regarding the details of each port:
Street Fighter II iterations: a bit better on the PS1 due to some slightly scrolling bugs and some slowdown in some of those iterations on the Saturn. No big difference in terms of load times.
Street Fighter Zero: slightly better on the Saturn (mostly for the shorter load times).
Street Fighter Zero 2: bad on the PS1, stick to the Saturn version.
Street Fighter Zero 2 Gold: better on the Saturn but the PS1 version is also solid.
Street Fighter Zero 3: clearly better on the Saturn but the PS1 version is also solid.

TrekkiesUnite118
12-29-2014, 02:50 PM
It doesn't matter, the Saturn ports of CPS1/2 games all run at some weird resolution of 400x240 or something like that, I don't remember the exact resolution but it was something like that, it's just that all the graphics are drawn using only the 384x224 lines needed for those games, how I know that? because I used to have my Saturn connected to one of those Extron RGB interfaces equipped with an lcd display showing each signal resolution input.

While Barone already covered this, I'm just going to point out that that this is again impossible. The Saturn doesn't support that resolution. The Saturn's supported resolutions are as follows:

320x224
320x240(PAL)
352x224
352x240(PAL)
640x224
640x240(PAL)
704x224
704x240(PAL)
640x448
640x480(PAL)
704x448
704x480(PAL)

chinitosoccer
12-29-2014, 02:54 PM
Wrong.
The Saturn ports of Capcom games run at 352 x 224, so you DO have small cuts at the left and right boundaries of the screen.
The sprites thus look a bit "fatter" on the Saturn versions and that's why a lot people claim that its versions use bigger sprites, but that is also wrong.



This may be true for the Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo port, and a few others , but not for the SFZero3 , the Capcom VS series and the Capcom Generations Vol.5 (SF2)

TrekkiesUnite118
12-29-2014, 02:59 PM
This may be true for the Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo port, and a few others , but not for the SFZero3 , the Capcom VS series and the Capcom Generations Vol.5 (SF2)

Street Fighter Zero 3, X-men vs Street Fighter, Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter, Vampire Savior, Capcom Generations Vol.5, Street Fighter Alpha, Alpha 2, Alpha 2 Gold, etc. all run at 352x224 on the Saturn. That's the closest resolution to the Arcades 384x224 it supports. It's why the character portraits in the Vs games are not next to the health bars like they are on PS1 and in the Arcade. There's not enough horizontal room to fit them so they placed them below the bars.

Bloodreign
12-30-2014, 03:42 AM
The PSP port is solid and the extra characters are nice, but the god awful Playstation D-Pad makes it almost unplayable for me. For that reason alone I prefer the Saturn port.



The sprites aren't any bigger on the Saturn. They are the exact same size. They look fatter because of the overall resolution difference.



Visually you wont see a difference. The difference is in how far off the screen your character can go.
Yeah, it's worse on the first PSP revisions, I tried playing the 3 versions of Street Fighter II on a PSP Capcom compilation, I failed miserably. I prefer my PS2 port as it was affordable, the Saturn one is one I'd only go for when I near the end of my collecting days, much like KoF 02 UM due to insane prices.

WoodyXP
12-30-2014, 11:10 PM
I shudder at the thought of what that costs now. My copy years ago cost me about $80.

Looks like they're going for $150+ now. Even more if you get the cart combo. Glad I already got mine, LOL.

Sega90s
12-31-2014, 11:30 PM
Street Fighter Zero 3, X-men vs Street Fighter, Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter, Vampire Savior, Capcom Generations Vol.5, Street Fighter Alpha, Alpha 2, Alpha 2 Gold, etc. all run at 352x224 on the Saturn. That's the closest resolution to the Arcades 384x224 it supports. It's why the character portraits in the Vs games are not next to the health bars like they are on PS1 and in the Arcade. There's not enough horizontal room to fit them so they placed them below the bars.

I guess the the saturn ports crop the image on these giving the fatter sprite appearance. I still prefer the way it looks and the way it plays(The standard ps1 pad is awful for 2d fighters). At the prices they are going for now I would just get the ps1 versions and play it through a ps2 to cut the loading times down.

gamevet
12-31-2014, 11:41 PM
Wrong.
The Saturn ports of Capcom games run at 352 x 224, so you DO have small cuts at the left and right boundaries of the screen.
The sprites thus look a bit "fatter" on the Saturn versions and that's why a lot people claim that its versions use bigger sprites, but that is also wrong.

Yeah, I'd noticed that the edge of the screen seems cut-off on my import versions of X-Men vs. Street Fighter and Cyberbots for the Saturn.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-01-2015, 03:34 AM
I guess the the saturn ports crop the image on these giving the fatter sprite appearance.

It's not really that it's cropped, it's more of it's just rendering as much as it can into that smaller resolution if that makes sense.

Bibin
01-01-2015, 10:49 PM
From a design perspective, it is basically cropped, with a few things moved about so information isn't missing, disregarding overscan on some television sets. The game, when configured with the "arcade" display setting, runs the games and positions game graphics as if being played at the normal 384x224 resolution, so the gameplay is not affected.

Just about all of Capcom's fighters work this way, with these options present. Capcom did an exceptional job porting to the Saturn, especially with later CPS2 titles like Vampire Savior, Zero 3, and the versus series. As far as accuracy, both in terms of timing as well as animation frames, the Saturn version of Zero 3 beats out the PS1 release.

As for Alpha 2 / Zero 2, just go for the cheapest.

Lync
01-06-2015, 12:52 AM
Thanks everyone for the input - I grabbed a copy of Street Fighter Alpha 2 for my Saturn and really enjoy it, however, were 2D fighting games always this hard?! I have not played a Street Fighter outside of Super Street Fighter New Challengers for the GEN/SNES so maybe I'm behind the times but gosh darn it, I lost to Ryu at least fifty straight times trying to use Guy and my more familiar Ken and he wasn't even a boss! Urgh.

I love how nice these backgrounds are, the detail and general animation is masterful! The music also is very fitting, especially Sakura's stage, the soundtrack feels appropriately energetic. The entire game just seems so fluid, I appreciate the simplicity even with the super moves and combos being new to me.

That said - is Alpha 3 a huge departure from 2 and is it worth the import price tag? I'm interested because I understand the Saturn boasts what is arguably the best port of the game but there seems to be all of these Isms? What's that all about? This is completely long term of course, like when I'm old, retired and rich...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoj94pkKtqc

TrekkiesUnite118
01-06-2015, 01:06 AM
Thanks everyone for the input - I grabbed a copy of Street Fighter Alpha 2 for my Saturn and really enjoy it, however, were 2D fighting games always this hard?! I have not played a Street Fighter outside of Super Street Fighter New Challengers for the GEN/SNES so maybe I'm behind the times but gosh darn it, I lost to Ryu at least fifty straight times trying to use Guy and my more familiar Ken and he wasn't even a boss! Urgh.

I love how nice these backgrounds are, the detail and general animation is masterful! The music also is very fitting, especially Sakura's stage, the soundtrack feels appropriately energetic. The entire game just seems so fluid, I appreciate the simplicity even with the super moves and combos being new to me.

That said - is Alpha 3 a huge departure from 2 and is it worth the import price tag? I'm interested because I understand the Saturn boasts what is arguably the best port of the game but there seems to be all of these Isms? What's that all about? This is completely long term of course, like when I'm old, retired and rich...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoj94pkKtqc

Well here's Joe's Alpha 3 Video if that helps:

pr8NEv4SIP8

Alpha 3 feels the most modern of them all as it should since it's the most recent. There's a lot more characters to choose from, the music and announcer is radically different, you can choose different fighting styles, etc. It also has the most content of any other Saturn 2D Fighter to my knowledge. Though one of the SNK ones might have more, I don't have much experience with them to verify that. Overall it's definitely different enough to justify having if you already have Alpha 2. Whether it's worth the asking price or not though is totally up to you. I paid about $80 for my copy a few years ago and felt it was worth it. At the prices it's going today though, it might be better to go with one of the newer ports such as the Alpha Anthology for PS2 or the PSP port.

It is a Japanese only release though and requires the 4MB RAM cart. So you'll need either a region modded Saturn, a Japanese Saturn, or an Action Replay 4-in-1 cart to play it.

Bottino
01-06-2015, 03:56 AM
Thanks everyone for the input - I grabbed a copy of Street Fighter Alpha 2 for my Saturn and really enjoy it, however, were 2D fighting games always this hard?! I have not played a Street Fighter outside of Super Street Fighter New Challengers for the GEN/SNES so maybe I'm behind the times but gosh darn it, I lost to Ryu at least fifty straight times trying to use Guy and my more familiar Ken and he wasn't even a boss! Urgh.

I love how nice these backgrounds are, the detail and general animation is masterful! The music also is very fitting, especially Sakura's stage, the soundtrack feels appropriately energetic. The entire game just seems so fluid, I appreciate the simplicity even with the super moves and combos being new to me.

That said - is Alpha 3 a huge departure from 2 and is it worth the import price tag? I'm interested because I understand the Saturn boasts what is arguably the best port of the game but there seems to be all of these Isms? What's that all about? This is completely long term of course, like when I'm old, retired and rich...



Street Fighter Zero 3 is quantity over quality. Personally, I find the music forgettable and so the backgrounds; also, the announcer is annoying as hell. The new characters sucks as well ( R.Mika? Cammy clones? Cody like a fucking prisoner? ). Not to mention that ridiculous ending fight with Shin Vega/M.Bison.
I've played it on the Arcades, Playstation and Dreamcast and never liked the game, even though I'm SF fan and fighting game enthusiast.

You've made a great choice with SF Zero 2 for the Satrun, my friend. It's a terrific game, with great visuals, awesome music and with a refined gameplay, along with the just right amount of characters. It's Capcom at their best.

j_factor
01-06-2015, 06:42 AM
Thanks everyone for the input - I grabbed a copy of Street Fighter Alpha 2 for my Saturn and really enjoy it, however, were 2D fighting games always this hard?! I have not played a Street Fighter outside of Super Street Fighter New Challengers for the GEN/SNES so maybe I'm behind the times but gosh darn it, I lost to Ryu at least fifty straight times trying to use Guy and my more familiar Ken and he wasn't even a boss! Urgh.

I love how nice these backgrounds are, the detail and general animation is masterful! The music also is very fitting, especially Sakura's stage, the soundtrack feels appropriately energetic. The entire game just seems so fluid, I appreciate the simplicity even with the super moves and combos being new to me.

That said - is Alpha 3 a huge departure from 2 and is it worth the import price tag? I'm interested because I understand the Saturn boasts what is arguably the best port of the game but there seems to be all of these Isms? What's that all about? This is completely long term of course, like when I'm old, retired and rich...

I used to play a ton of both Alpha 2 and Alpha 3, but it's been years so my memory may be a little hazy on the finer points.

The main difference in core gameplay is the guard gauge. Every time you block, the gauge depletes. Run out of guard power and you temporarily can't block, and also the gauge itself decreases in size, so eventually you can lose your ability to block altogether. (In practice this never happens.) Alpha 2 can be a very defensive game with people blocking everything, and this balances the gameplay in the other direction a bit.

But the main reason for Alpha 3's popularity within the series is its roster of characters. It has 36 playable choices (40 in the PSP version, but meh), which wouldn't be beaten until Super Street Fighter IV Arcade Edition. With Alpha 3, all the characters from Alpha and Alpha 2 return including secret/bonus characters (e.g. Evil Ryu), plus they added back in all of the remaining characters from Street Fighter II that were not in Alpha 2, as well as the four 'new challengers' from Super SF2, Cody to complete the Final Fight trio, four new characters, and two new bonus characters. Unlike Capcom Fighting Evolution, the reintroduced old characters were properly worked into the game, and not just copy-pasted.

The "isms" are tweaks to the main game rules, mainly in terms of things like blocking and how the supers work. Basically, it imports the rules from Super Street Fighter II Turbo (X-ism), Street Fighter Alpha (A-ism), or Alpha 2 (V-ism). I am ambivalent about this feature TBH, but a lot of people dig it. I think I would have preferred that they create another new tweak to the rules for this game rather than let you select from one of the previous ones. To me the isms, along with the roster and the additional features (see below), make Alpha 3 feel more like a Street Fighter Supermix than a distinctive sequel. Which, I mean, that's not a bad thing per se. It is what it is.

The most prominent of the other new features is a world tour mode. It's basically like a (very) lite RPG. You select your character and ism, and you go through a series of stages in various locations. Each stage has you fighting a specific character (or characters) with specific parameters. Parameters include: 50% life to start, shortened timer, survival match (must win two in a row), 50% more powerful opponent, only combos do damage, etc. Winning fights gives you experience points, which levels up your character. Leveling up increases your strength and also gives you access to "ism pluses", which are enhancements that you equip to three slots. Ism pluses include things like infinite guard, or immunity to being dizzied. Lastly you can also tweak your strength balance between offense and defense (increase your attack power at the expense of taking more damage from hits, or vice-versa). Beating the world tour unlocks the bonus characters in the main game. You can also import your leveled up character to be selectable in other game modes.

Aside from world tour there's also dramatic battle, which is 2-on-1 fighting. This originated from a bonus fight in Alpha 1, where two players can play as Ryu and Ken simultaneously fighting against Akuma, with a shared life bar and combo meter. In Alpha 3 it's more of a full mode, not just one fight. There's also survival, team battle, training mode, etc. There's three bonus gameplay modes (for arcade and versus) as well. Classic mode basically turns the game into Super SF2, no guard gauge and no super gauge. I forget the other two, but they're handicaps.

Now, as for the versions. The Playstation version is of course the runt of the litter, but it really isn't bad. It's pretty impressive for the system, and better than the port of Alpha 2. The Saturn version certainly has the best animation, with Dreamcast second. One negative against the Saturn's graphics though: some bad dithering in place of what should be transparencies There is a minor difference in the roster disfavoring the PSX -- two of the characters you have to unlock in the PSX version are available by default on Saturn and Dreamcast, and one additional bonus character unlockable on Saturn and Dreamcast isn't available on PSX. The world tour mode is completely different in the Dreamcast version -- the premise is the same, but the stages are all different, with a little more variety in the different types of stages, and now you get up to six ism pluses. Though the Saturn version was the third release, it uses the world tour mode from the Playstation version. Which is still good, and note that there's no language barrier issue. The dramatic battle mode is limited on PSX; you pick one of a few pairs of characters that share assets (e.g. Ryu and Ken), either with two players or one player and an AI partner, and you fight against the six boss characters in order. In the Saturn version, you can pick any combination of two characters, and you can do either arcade or original (fight the bosses or opponents from the full roster), and you can also reverse it and play as the single character fighting against a team of two. IIRC the Dreamcast version is in between, with the restrictions being a little odd (more like oversights). You can pick any two different characters on the player side but it's still the boss run only. IIRC reverse dramatic battles can only be selected within survival mode on DC, whereas the Saturn allows for either survival or normal battles. Exclusive to the Dreamcast version is Vs Dramatic Battle, which allows three simultaneous players in a 2-on-1 match. Which is nice, but unfortunately it's for human players only, and can't be used as a backdoor to the Saturn's additional dramatic battle options. The DC version also had two online features: leaderboards and master characters. The latter were beefed up AI characters to download to your VMU and use as opponents for your leveled up world tour fighter. Obviously the site is gone, but you can still acquire the master character files. There's also a VMU minigame associated with the world tour mode, but I forget what it does.

So what's the bottom line? I do think the Saturn version is best, but the DC version should be a good option as well, and cheaper. The PSP is garbage for fighting games. The PS2 version in Alpha Anthology is a good port, but it's more of a straight arcade port, lacking the world tour mode, the expanded dramatic battle mode of the Saturn version, the DC's 3-player mode, etc.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-06-2015, 06:52 PM
With the Dithering in the Saturn port, if you set the Video to RGB it will use the Arcade's dithering scheme (The CPS2 doesn't support true transparency/translucency either), which will look significantly better.

The Dreamcast version also has really screwed up V-ISM timings if I remember correctly while the Saturn and PS1 versions, while still not arcade accurate, are closer to the arcade.

zetastrike
01-06-2015, 07:16 PM
What precisely is so bad about the PSX port of vanilla Alpha 2? Alpha 1 is fine besides the load times and controller and 3 is decent all things considered.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-06-2015, 07:25 PM
What precisely is so bad about the PSX port of vanilla Alpha 2? Alpha 1 is fine besides the load times and controller and 3 is decent all things considered.

It has crippling slowdown when ever a character is in the air, the intro is an FMV, there's less animation and background details, etc.

Benjamin
01-06-2015, 07:40 PM
I didn't care about Alpha 3 enough to worry about "arcade perfection," but the Dreamcast Dramatic Battle mode is a blast. It's a great option for those times when you've got friends who just aren't as good as you are at a fighting game, letting them gang up on you.

j_factor
01-06-2015, 10:20 PM
The Dreamcast version also has really screwed up V-ISM timings if I remember correctly while the Saturn and PS1 versions, while still not arcade accurate, are closer to the arcade.

IIRC, Zero 3 Upper arcade was based on the Dreamcast version as far as differences in timing etc.

Either way, in the context of someone not familiar with the game and looking to choose one version to play, I'm not sure that arcade accuracy in minute details is very relevant, unless the differences amount to something that is actually worse in a concrete way, rather than just being different.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-06-2015, 11:29 PM
IIRC, Zero 3 Upper arcade was based on the Dreamcast version as far as differences in timing etc.

Either way, in the context of someone not familiar with the game and looking to choose one version to play, I'm not sure that arcade accuracy in minute details is very relevant, unless the differences amount to something that is actually worse in a concrete way, rather than just being different.

The screwed up timing prevents you from doing things like this:

Q_upmcJLf1o

Bloodreign
01-06-2015, 11:48 PM
The screwed up timing prevents you from doing things like this:

Q_upmcJLf1o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_upmcJLf1o

Fixed for you.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-07-2015, 12:02 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_upmcJLf1o

Fixed for you.

Um, it's the same thing?

j_factor
01-07-2015, 01:32 AM
The screwed up timing prevents you from doing things like this:

Q_upmcJLf1o

What, you mean they got rid of juggling?

TrekkiesUnite118
01-07-2015, 01:50 AM
What, you mean they got rid of juggling?

Basically some of those intricate V-Ism combos can't be done at all on the Dreamcast version as the timings for certain animations and moves are off. The Saturn and PS1 version aren't entirely Arcade Accurate in this regard either, but they are closer so some of them can be pulled of if I remember correctly.

j_factor
01-07-2015, 02:08 AM
I would love to see a detailed explanation for this, but I suspect the timings are "revised" rather than "off".

Bloodreign
01-07-2015, 07:45 AM
Um, it's the same thing?

I saw no video underneath your original post, so I posted it in case there are some who won't see it.

maxi
01-07-2015, 09:58 AM
I suppose it's because the DC version, Upper and the PSP port they rebalanced the game, like they did before with Zero 2 Alpha/Gold. However, I'm not sure because I never heard that before about Alpha 3.

Bibin
01-07-2015, 02:38 PM
The Saturn version is much closer to the arcade than the PS1 and Dreamcast ones.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-07-2015, 07:01 PM
I would love to see a detailed explanation for this, but I suspect the timings are "revised" rather than "off".

Here's this thread that mentions it:

http://dcemulation.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=58200&start=20

If you google Street Fighter Alpha 3 V-ISm Timings you'll probably find more info. Basically the Dreamcast port is all kinds of screwed up. The Saturn port came after it too, so I wouldn't really consider it a revision either. And if I remember correctly even the later ports aren't as badly screwed up either.

j_factor
01-07-2015, 10:00 PM
Here's this thread that mentions it:

http://dcemulation.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=58200&start=20

If you google Street Fighter Alpha 3 V-ISm Timings you'll probably find more info. Basically the Dreamcast port is all kinds of screwed up. The Saturn port came after it too, so I wouldn't really consider it a revision either. And if I remember correctly even the later ports aren't as badly screwed up either.

The details he gives there sound like intentional changes. Apparently those changes were poorly received by the hardcore fan community, but it's not "screwed up" if it's deliberate.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-08-2015, 01:01 AM
The details he gives there sound like intentional changes. Apparently those changes were poorly received by the hardcore fan community, but it's not "screwed up" if it's deliberate.

Except those changes don't carry over to the other versions that came out after the Dreamcast port, including the Saturn port. It's not only the V-ISM timings that are screwed up but supposedly the hitboxes for most the characters are screwed up too.

j_factor
01-08-2015, 02:27 AM
Except those changes don't carry over to the other versions that came out after the Dreamcast port, including the Saturn port. It's not only the V-ISM timings that are screwed up but supposedly the hitboxes for most the characters are screwed up too.

The Saturn port came out only one month after the Dreamcast port. It also doesn't use the Dreamcast version's expanded world tour mode or three player option. I only own the game for Saturn, but I see that even the main menu screen looks completely different on Dreamcast. I would bet that there are a few little things in terms of game options in the Dreamcast version that aren't in the Saturn one. And let's not forget that the later PS2 port gets rid of most of the features from the earlier ports. Discrepancies will arise when a game has separately produced ports for numerous platforms. Also note that the Dreamcast version is subtitled Saikyo Dojo, while the Saturn and Playstation versions are not.

I have not seen anything specifically asserting that the changes did not carry over to Street Fighter Zero 3 Upper. Considering that it's for the Naomi hardware, and has a VMU interface to allow players to upload their character file from the Dreamcast port, I would expect it to be in line with the Dreamcast version. I haven't seen anyone analyze the PSP version either, and that one is subtitled Double Upper in Japan and its world tour mode matches the Dreamcast version. I don't have proof, but I think the changes did carry over to these two ports.

maxi
01-08-2015, 06:58 AM
Capcom recently announced a port of Alpha 3 for the NESiCAxLive and said it would be the CPS2 version, because "fans prefer it over Upper", and by what I'm seeing on that forum the DC version is indeed the same as Upper (and also the PS2/Xbox anniversary collection).
Good to know, because is means it's the best home port excluding Double Upper, since it's more balanced and the anniversary edition is an arcade port that lacks the console exclusive modes.

zyrobs
01-08-2015, 07:13 AM
While Barone already covered this, I'm just going to point out that that this is again impossible. The Saturn doesn't support that resolution. The Saturn's supported resolutions are as follows:

320x224
320x240(PAL)
352x224
352x240(PAL)
640x224
640x240(PAL)
704x224
704x240(PAL)
640x448
640x480(PAL)
704x448
704x480(PAL)

Those are all NTSC. PAL modes have 256/512 lines.

You can also do 320/352 x 448/480/512 as well, though few games use it.

TrekkiesUnite118
01-08-2015, 11:53 PM
Those are all NTSC. PAL modes have 256/512 lines.

You can also do 320/352 x 448/480/512 as well, though few games use it.

My bad, though still the point was that the Saturn can't do 384x224 like the PS1 can.

Though I didn't know it did those odd 320/352x480 resolutions. What games use those? I thought that was just a PS1 thing.

FuturePrimitive
01-09-2015, 12:07 AM
This might have been mentioned earlier in the thread, but which Street Fighter games are on this collection? Now all I need is an adapter to use my arcade sticks for other systems on the Saturn!

TrekkiesUnite118
01-09-2015, 12:38 AM
This might have been mentioned earlier in the thread, but which Street Fighter games are on this collection? Now all I need is an adapter to use my arcade sticks for other systems on the Saturn!

Street Fighter Collection contains:
Super Street Fighter 2
Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo
Street Fighter Alpha 2 Gold

Capcom Generation 5 contains:
Street Fighter 2 The World Warrior
Street Fighter 2' Champion Edition
Street Fighter 2' Hyper Fighting