PDA

View Full Version : Double Take: The Revenge of Shinobi



Melf
09-10-2007, 11:55 PM
Today we kick off a new feature series! Double Take gives readers a chance to take a second look at those special titles that made a major impact. Instead of the standard review fare, the series seeks to offer a better look at the overall experience a particular game offers. We start things off with that first of great Genesis action/platformers: The Revenge of Shinobi. Sega really got the 16-bit ball rolling. Read the full article (http://www.sega-16.com/2007/09/double-take-the-revenge-of-shinobi/) to experience one man's journey into ninja heaven.

Genesis Knight
09-11-2007, 12:01 AM
Looks like a promising new feature series. Since I didn't experience the Genesis back in the day, it's a treat to be able to share in the original perspective of the time, without all the influence of a decade's worth of gaming in-between.

David J.
09-11-2007, 12:14 AM
This game is easily in my top 3 genesis games. It's that good.

Genesis Knight
09-11-2007, 12:28 AM
Although this article helped a little in the nostalgia area, I still don't understand why everybody loves it so much. I mean, it's a good game, don't get me wrong. But David - top three? Top *three*?

Shinobi III is almost universally considered to be superior, and yet people still rave about Revenge. It's just a matter of opinion, I suppose.

Joe Redifer
09-11-2007, 12:37 AM
Neither ending is a good ending. Both are short and severely lacking.

Genesis Knight
09-11-2007, 12:38 AM
I thought the good ending was picturesque, however. I think I mentioned that in my Stories feature on RoS.

108 Stars
09-11-2007, 03:17 AM
Shinobi III is almost universally considered to be superior, and yet people still rave about Revenge. It's just a matter of opinion, I suppose.

Yes it is. I for my part love Revenge of Shinobi much more than Shinobi III; I even love Shadow Dancer more than Shinobi III, because it offered cool new ideas.

1.One obvious reason: nostalgia. My mother bought me a Mega Drive because she was amazed about how awesome Revenge of Shinobi looked. Cool mom, ey?
So this game obviously has a special place in my heart.

2.RoS was truly ahead of it´s time. All gamers of the time when it was released considered this the greatest thing since the wheel was invented. It showed the superior hardware power of the Mega Drive combined with superb controls.

3.atmosphere. I think the atmosphere is just much better in RoS. Joe Musashi has a more realistic look which I prefer to the somewhat cartoonish Shinobi III-Joe. And the Yuzo Koshiro soundtrack serves the purpose very well. Not to mention the crazy ideas like the Godzilla and Spider-Man; things no gemer expected to happen in a Ninja-game.

Shinobi III was good, it had some nice backgrounds (the burning woods and the falling rocks levels) and gave Joe Musashi the ability to run; this is the most important advantage for me. But somehow, the style lacked for me. I disliked the horse-riding and surfing-levels; those felt more like the Ninja Turtles than Joe Musashi to me. Also by the time it was released, there were many more competitors than when RoS was released. It was nothing that spectacular anymore.

About the widely considered superior-thing:
Yes, I noticed that when I began looking into the MD in the www like 2 years ago. Funny thing is I was surprised; in Germany´s most popular Sega-magazine of the time, RoS was rated with a A- while Shinobi III only got a C+ as I recall (in school marks). The game was reviewed by Julian Eggebrecht of Factor-5 I believe who called III somewhat uninspired and disappointing. Of course the rating itself was agreed commonly by the staff. So I never knew that it is regarded as superior by many people. And although I would not rate Shinobi III a C+ (more like a B), I find it less fun than RoS too.

So, it is in my MD-top 3 as well.

Rusty Venture
09-11-2007, 04:15 AM
RoS is good, but I like "III" more simply because they tightened up Joe's moves.

I'm a huge proponent for tight control. You can have the best looking game ever but if that control is sloppy as shit then the game is worthless to me.

Plus "III" had some non-Yuzo music that I enjoy a lot.

Zebbe
09-11-2007, 06:43 AM
Awesome new article series! Thanks for making a reference to my PLAY! feature.

The game itself is a top 10 for me.

megabomberman
09-11-2007, 08:39 AM
God what a few weeks sega-16 is having, the boards have been really lively with some great threads going on..

People are motivated to push things to an even higher level (zebbes suggestions)

The new database is on its way

And a fantastic new feature section has been started.. Very exciting times.

Great choice of game first up as well Melf, that was a thoroughly enjoyable read. Welldone

Genesis Knight
09-11-2007, 08:40 AM
I've said it before, but RoS still has floaty 8-bit controls and physics. III is the only one that makes me feel like a master ninja instead of a walking helium balloon.

108 Stars
09-11-2007, 09:05 AM
I've said it before, but RoS still has floaty 8-bit controls and physics. III is the only one that makes me feel like a master ninja instead of a walking helium balloon.

Now you´re exagerating (how do I spell this?). The controls in RoS are very tight imho. Shinobi III is no worse, but the hanging passages felt kinda akward imho

@megabomberman
How dare you post without stating that you agree with my opinion?

Alianger
09-11-2007, 02:01 PM
While RoS conrols are pretty tight, it feels like you're controlling Robocop, not a ninja. He happens to be a good jumper, but those somersaults can be tricky to pull off when you really need them, making it easy to fall into pits and such..

III was better in most areas, but it had too many autoscrolling segments. I don't think the atmosphere was much different in any of the games, they've always had that b-movie action vibe to them and I actually like that.

Nice feature though, made me really nostalgic (;

Elusive
09-11-2007, 04:29 PM
This is an excellent feature, Melf. It's obvious you've put a lot of thought into this, and avoided simply reviewing the game again.

It's like someone describing the best bits of the title, plus what makes the game fun, rather than simply outlining the ups and downs then giving it a score out of five. Great work.

Melf
09-11-2007, 08:56 PM
Thanks for the kudos guys! I'm glad you all like the new feature so much. I've been thinking of a way to allow contributors and staff to go back and re-examine those great games that have already been reviewed but without actually going and reviewing them again. I wanted to convey the actual experience of playing, instead of just going over the gameplay mechanics and presentation again.

VinnyT
09-11-2007, 11:07 PM
Awesome job! This pretty much sums up what alot of people were thinking for years!

I'm currently trying to get a couple together myself, just trying to get my thoughts out correctly.

Henry Spencer
09-12-2007, 01:24 PM
One of the best articles on this site. Seriously, it's that good. RoS isn't my favourite Shinobi game (that would be III) but it's still a damn good article, that highlights everything that the game had going for it (aside from the obvious nostalgia quality). Good points made all around the article, was a fun read. Thanks.

Genesis Knight
09-12-2007, 09:27 PM
Now you´re exagerating (how do I spell this?). The controls in RoS are very tight imho. Shinobi III is no worse, but the hanging passages felt kinda akward imho

Like that's never happened before. :p I was actually sort of serious. You jump, it floats, you hover, you tap again, it sometimes double jumps...etc.

Rusty Venture
09-13-2007, 12:42 AM
It's much easier to double jump in 3, There are many times when I went back to RoS and I'd try and double jump and I could get Joe to do it part of the time. Many times I'd pray he would do it, while in 3 it was pretty easy and smooth to pull off.

Gentlegamer
09-13-2007, 03:11 AM
The Revenge of Shinobi was one of the games I rented along with a Genesis on a regular basis back in the day. I still remember reading in Gamepro about the unlimited shuriken trick . . . and still use it most of the time when I play!

Is there any hope for the Sega to revive the Shinobi franchise in the modern era? Or given its recent track record is it best that such things be left alone?

108 Stars
09-13-2007, 03:35 AM
Shinobi was already revived on PS2. But unfortunately they did not do as good of a job as Team Ninja with Ninja Gaiden.

Gentlegamer
09-13-2007, 03:37 AM
Shinobi was already revived on PS2. But unfortunately they did not do as good of a job as Team Ninja with Ninja Gaiden.Yeah, but was it even published by Sega? For some reason I thought it wasn't.

I'll agree though on the comparison to the new Ninja Gaiden, which is probably the best action game of the generation.

Mr Smith
09-13-2007, 05:15 AM
What a truly awesome article. Ken, you have excelled yourself. What I like best is watching the life counter descend on the screenshots. Although, using the infinite shurikins cheat brings shame on us all.

Revenge of Shinobi is certainly one of the Mega Drive's better games - I look forward to seeing more "double take" features in the future.

108 Stars
09-13-2007, 05:20 AM
Yeah, but was it even published by Sega? For some reason I thought it wasn't.

I'll agree though on the comparison to the new Ninja Gaiden, which is probably the best action game of the generation.

Yes it was published by Sega and developed by Overworks, which is an in-house team I think. It is not really a bad game, but Shinobi deserves better. I would expect a new Shinobi to be better than Ninja Gaiden.
The Gameboy Advance wanna-be Revenge of Shinobi was published by Infogrames/Atari though.


Although, using the infinite shurikins cheat brings shame on us all.

I always use infinite Shuriken. But I am Kaiser Dei Gratia, so I am right to do so. BTW, I still don´t see the special title of Sega-16-Kaiser I asked for under my name.

Genesis Knight
09-13-2007, 09:32 AM
It's unfortunate just how much better a game Ninja Gaiden is than Shinobi PS2, even with Gaiden's ridiculous difficulty level. That said, does anyone really care sine Musashi isn't even in that one?

108 Stars
09-13-2007, 09:33 AM
Oh yes he is. Joe Musashi is a playable secret character.

Genesis Knight
09-13-2007, 09:42 AM
Really? Nice. But the story isn't about him, which is what I meant.

108 Stars
09-13-2007, 09:48 AM
It would be cool to get a 3D-Remake of the old Shinobi-stories; with really intense cutscenes etc. Putting the old games into a cool action-adventure. A ninja going against the Zeed-syndicate.

BTW, Shadow Dancer(arcade) and Cyber Shinobi feature Joe´s son and grandson.

Genesis Knight
09-13-2007, 09:51 AM
A new Shinobi game will always be compared to/have to compete directly with Gaiden from now on, but I think the franchise is solid and the genre itself has a lot of life left in it, so who knows? It might happen. There seems to be a rising awareness of old franchises in general.

108 Stars
09-13-2007, 11:24 AM
How about a crossover? Joe Musashi and Ryo Hazuki (is that his name?) in one game!

Genesis Knight
09-13-2007, 11:32 AM
Now THAT would be worth buying. Maybe like Onimusha 3, where you control the two characters alternately and their storylines are interwoven; or possibly a situation where Musashi and Ryo are in opposite factions. Can you imagine a matchup like that? That would be pretty epic.

108 Stars
09-13-2007, 12:08 PM
Yeah, they both have different clans, so something like a clan war at first only to unite later against the real enemy.

....

I´ve gotta tell Fonzie this idea. It might just happen on MD.

Genesis Knight
09-13-2007, 12:26 PM
Nice thought. So far the two major releases for G/MD have been RPGs; I'd like to see some other genres explored.

108 Stars
09-13-2007, 12:38 PM
Yes, I think it would be nice to do something different too; after all, an RPG also takes much more time to develope if it´s supposed to be good. A new Shinobi would be fun.

Zebbe
09-13-2007, 12:45 PM
Someday, I will make a shooter on the Mega Drive. It will be in a space age/surrealistic theme. With 2 player co-op, shops, gazillions of weapons and power ups, blast processing, at least 48 MEGA POWER, techno-rock soundtrack, an official Sega-license. Someday... ;)

108 Stars
09-13-2007, 12:52 PM
Someday, I will make a shooter on the Mega Drive. It will be in a space age/surrealistic theme. With 2 player co-op, shops, gazillions of weapons and power ups, blast processing, at least 48 MEGA POWER, techno-rock soundtrack, an official Sega-license. Someday... ;)

You think I´m kidding?;)
Well, if I say that you can take it seriously. I love Shinobi, and a game of that sort is definately an option someday. Of course the title would be a problem, but Shadow Dancer is a Shinobi-game too.

Zebbe
09-13-2007, 12:56 PM
And you think I'M kidding?

108 Stars
09-13-2007, 12:58 PM
And you think I'M kidding?

The way you wrote and the smiley implied so...:p

Mr Smith
09-13-2007, 01:34 PM
Somebody make Sonic the Hedgehog 4 NOW!!

Aarzak
09-13-2007, 04:54 PM
EGM gave RoS high scores back in late 1989......or was it early 1990? When was the damn game released? They gave it 9's and 8's, and in their review description for their BADASS list of all the games they had reviewed up to October 1998 in the 1999 Video Game Buyer's Guide, they said "Battle foes and monsters in one of the first great Genesis games." They also listed it as one of their top 10 Genesis games (#10) in what was their last feature on the Genesis in that same Buyer's Guide.

Anyways, RoS and it's soundtrack are still a favorite of mine to this day. Anyone have any idea what the most popular and best-selling pre-Sonic Genesis games were? I've heard that "Ghouls 'N Ghosts" and "Golden Axe" sold like hotcaeks.

Joe Redifer
09-13-2007, 07:12 PM
unfortunately they did not do as good of a job as Team Ninja with Ninja Gaiden.
Certainly not technically as Ninja Gaiden had far superior graphics as well as 480p + 16:9 widescreen. Also, that game was on the Xbox whereas Shinobi was on the wimpy PS2. However I sure liked PS2 Shinobi a hell of a lot more than Xbox Ninja Gaiden. Hell, I like just about ANY Shinobi game (with the exceptions of Cyber Shinobi and SMS Shadow Dancer, I guess) more than ANY Ninja Gaiden game. I didn't like PS2 Shinobi quite well enough to see it through to the very end, though. I did get fairly close. The music in PS2 Shinobi is leagues better than the music in Ninja Gaiden Xbox.

AxelStone
09-13-2007, 07:31 PM
Somebody make Sonic the Hedgehog 4 NOW!!

SEGA should stop making Sonic, the series is beginning to get tired. I'm not saying I don't like Sonic because that series tops my favourite franchise list however it's probably time they hung up their super sneakers.

Rusty Venture
09-13-2007, 11:40 PM
Now THAT would be worth buying. Maybe like Onimusha 3, where you control the two characters alternately and their storylines are interwoven; or possibly a situation where Musashi and Ryo are in opposite factions. Can you imagine a matchup like that? That would be pretty epic.


I think Joe would whoop on Ryo like three times over.

You gotta respect a ninja that can fight Spider-man, Batman, & Godzilla and live.

I know if I ever got an online ninja degree and wanted a mentor, Joe would be that man.

AxelStone
09-13-2007, 11:44 PM
I know if I ever got an online ninja degree and wanted a mentor, Joe would be that man.

He could take over the Youtube "Ask a ninja" thing and teach from there :)

Rusty Venture
09-14-2007, 12:09 AM
Yeah but it sounds more professional when you say your degree from www.ucanbeaninja2.com instead of Youtube.

GameUser-16-32-128
09-19-2007, 12:53 PM
ROS is one of the best launch titles on the Genesis! Challenging, fun, detailed graphics, awesome soundtrack and good tight control. I don't understand why the Sega CD version ruined Joe's voice whenever he called on ninja magic. That annoyed me!

Aarzak
09-22-2007, 07:55 PM
They did that with SoR and GA in the Sega CD collections, probably to take advantage of the stronger hardware and increased stora.............they did because they felt like it. Same goes for taking out GA's two-player feature.

What was the MSRP or average price of Genny games back in the pre-Sonic days? Joe, anyone?

Joe Redifer
09-22-2007, 08:31 PM
Between $40 and $50 I think.

Man-Fish
09-22-2007, 08:40 PM
What was the MSRP or average price of Genny games back in the pre-Sonic days? Joe, anyone?

Well, I remember finding the receipt in my (preowned) copy of Cannon Fodder (hidden behind the cover) from about 1996 I think (it's been a while since I've seen it, but I'm pretty sure it's 1996 or 1995) and it was priced at either £59.99 or £69.99. :o


I know you asked for pre-Sonic, but I thought someone might find that interesting anyways. :)

Joe Redifer
09-22-2007, 09:33 PM
There were some games that went for a premium (around $55 or so) and then those that went for an ultra premium like Phantasy Star 2, which went for $69.99 plus tax. If you were resourceful and hunted around a bit, you could probably find it for $69.95 plus tax.

Iron Lizard
09-23-2007, 02:09 AM
I remember better titles like Golden Axe and Revenge of Shinobi going for 59.99 and games like Super Hang on were a bit less. The rpgs were more. That was at the beginning. Then they became a bit cheaper

neptun
10-19-2008, 07:43 AM
Funny thing is I was surprised; in Germany´s most popular Sega-magazine of the time, RoS was rated with a A- while Shinobi III only got a C+ as I recall (in school marks). The game was reviewed by Julian Eggebrecht of Factor-5 I believe who called III somewhat uninspired and disappointing. Of course the rating itself was agreed commonly by the staff. So I never knew that it is regarded as superior by many people. And although I would not rate Shinobi III a C+ (more like a B), I find it less fun than RoS too.


C+ what the "Gamers" gave is absolutely unknowable. I was a fan of this magazine but they often scored questionably. I couldn't understand that they used reasons like "uninspired and disappointing". Absolutely confused.
"Video Games" scored 91%. Revenge of Shinobi got 93%. They knew a lot about their job;)


Shinobi 3 is really awesome. I like the self running levels. The graphic is gigantic and the quality of the sound is much better than in Revenge of Shinobi. But this is because of the 4 times bigger cartridge. The melodies of RoS are counted among the best of Genesis. Unfortunately they sound not clear.
"Idaten", "Trap Boogie" or "Whirlwind" for instance from S3 are world class. So difficult to say, which one has better musics. I like Koshiro and his music style but RoS lacks a little bit of the 4Mbit. It's a matter of taste...i would prefer S3 but its quite close. "The long distance" is also a treat for the ears.

Compare both games...it's hard to say which one i prefer. Probably RoS is the favourite for the most people. It has the advantage that there were no big competitors when it was released. So everyone had enough time to play it at full lenght.
In spite of the new moves of Joe in S3, the gameplay of RoS is a bit better. It plays more fluent. And maybe the level design of RoS fits better to the theme...maybe.

So i agree with 93 to 91 :D

djtwok
10-19-2008, 08:09 AM
Anyone of you ever played the non released shinobi 2 beta ? The levels are different to the later released shinoi 3 but music and bosses are most the same.