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segarule
01-31-2017, 10:19 AM
I was chatting with friends and they claimed that SS had only 2 titles considered best of common. I bought an Sega Saturn and had good feelings with it. I mentioned various games and so they told to me that they referred to "exclusive" games. For example: X-men: Children of the Atom not is counted because it was realized for PS too. I recognize that i dont know all Saturn Games but i tried put all that i considered EXCELLENT like Shining Force III.
You could post here titles of Saturn that in your opinion are above of common?
They claimed also that Sega Saturn was a fail Business which i considered too radical. IMO the Sega Saturn not had all the lineup than PS but i dont considered it a junk.
Thanks

Thief
01-31-2017, 10:41 AM
Try playing Shining the Holy Ark before Shining Force 3.

Thierry Henry
01-31-2017, 10:47 AM
The Saturn and "junk" in the same sentence? Depends on your skewed? perspective, I guess. But overall I'd go with "No" on that one.

DJ_Convoy
01-31-2017, 10:58 AM
Saturn wasn't a success here in the states, at least sales-wise. As for there being only a couple of excellent titles? Nonsense.

Radiant Silvergun
Saturn Bomberman
Panzer Dragoon and Zwei
Shining Force III
Guardian Heroes
Batsugun
Battle Garegga
Dark Savior
Daytona Circuit Edition
Burning Rangers
Virtual On
Baku Baku Animal
Dungeons and Dragon Collection

and lots of other titles, that sure, were available elsewhere put paid to that. The Saturn is fantastic.

Thief
01-31-2017, 11:19 AM
^ What, naming shooters and racers but no Galactic Attack and Sega Rally?

Lately, I've been meaning to give the first two Dragoon games another go. Last I played them were in rentals back in the day and didn't beat them. But if anything is going to help me get into the scrolling forward shooters, it could be these two.


Anyway, I want to talk more about StHA. Magazines may of hyped Grandia as the FF killer Saturn needed, but I think it's StHA. I wouldn't go as far as killer, as I enjoy both StHA and FFVII (my most replayed RPGs for both consoles). But it is my fave of the two, and if anything, it has to be the biggest missed out on RPG of the 32-Bit era. With really good atmosphere and lore I fail to see anyone not fall in love with, only with the first person view, it's like you're living and breathing in that great fantasy world. And that music. Then add exciting turn based combat (which is rare), interesting to play as characters (that level up even if not in main party awesomeness) and unique equipment. And it's really a total package JRPG as it can get. PS - Hiroyuki Takahashi even stated he's most proud of this game.

Barone
01-31-2017, 11:53 AM
:topicsucks:

segarule
01-31-2017, 12:10 PM
Magazines may of hyped Grandia as the FF killer Saturn
Grandia! I remember in viewed it on magazines. I never played it.

BonusKun
01-31-2017, 12:21 PM
Seriously what the heck is going on with this thread? There's just way too many awesome games that came out on the Saturn. Whoever you were talking to is a fucking idiot.

segarule
01-31-2017, 12:31 PM
Seriously what the heck is going on with this thread? There's just way too many awesome games that came out on the Saturn. Whoever you were talking to is a fucking idiot.
The thread is only to found excellent SS games unknown. Any member could have experience with much more titles and share it here. What i remember is that Saturn had more sucess in Japan than US but i dont know all exclusive titles realized there.

Black_Tiger
01-31-2017, 12:38 PM
Just make them play through Tengai Makyou The Apocalypse IV.

Gogogadget
01-31-2017, 12:49 PM
The Saturn is awesome and has so many good games, but it is still a flop.

Gentlegamer
01-31-2017, 01:26 PM
Since I bought lastcallhall's modded Saturn, I keep forgetting to start a thread asking for the recommended Saturn games, since I can play totally unauthorized copies so money is no object.

sull56ivan2010
01-31-2017, 01:37 PM
That's a crock of shit. I've only had a Saturn now for a year and a half and it's all opinions, but come on. There's more than two good titles. Gex was fun. I've enjoyed some of the racing games. Sega Rally, Nascar, Daytona USA.

Thierry Henry
01-31-2017, 01:43 PM
Since I bought lastcallhall's modded Saturn, I keep forgetting to start a thread asking for the recommended Saturn games, since I can play totally unauthorized copies so money is no object.

Soon I'll be on the same path. Picked up an "Sega Pseudo Saturn" cart off of eBay. Seemed a decent deal for $23

QuickSciFi
01-31-2017, 01:43 PM
I only have about 70 of the 245 released in the US, and looking at the library as I write this I find dozens of awesome ones I want to play. I can't say the same thing about my Sega CD collection. And add to that all the regions the Saturn was released in, I'd say there are plenty of above average titles to enjoy. I have the same feelings about the Dreamcast. Both systems are shockfull of fun.

Gogogadget
01-31-2017, 01:47 PM
I had the same feeling with the Sega CD, it's probably the console (well, addon I guess) with the most okay library at all times.

Very little is offensively bad except for some silly shovelware titles, but there is almost nothing great. Just a bunch of games that are okay.

I refuse to count anything ported with CD music though, those don't count. You don't need redbook audio to enjoy Ecco.

Lan Di
01-31-2017, 02:01 PM
Seriously what the heck is going on with this thread? There's just way too many awesome games that came out on the Saturn. Whoever you were talking to is a fucking idiot.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BonusKun again".

EyeDeeNo76
01-31-2017, 02:09 PM
The Saturn games I have I like and have fun with but the ones in bold I really enjoy on the system ~ Alien Trilogy; Daytona USA; Galactic Attack; Gex; Hyper 3-D Pinball; NHL All-Star Hockey '98; Pebble Beach Golf Links; Resident Evil; Sega Rally Championship; Shinobi Legions; Star Fighter; Street Fighter Alpha: Warriors' Dreams; Virtua Cop 1 & 2; Virtua Fighter 1 & 2; VR Virtua Racing (Time Warner Interactive's); World Series Baseball '98.
Alien Trilogy, Gex and Resident Evil I also have copies for PlayStation too.

gamevet
01-31-2017, 03:05 PM
Pretty much all of the 2D fighters on the Saturn are better than their PlayStation counterparts. There are exceptions like X-Men: COTA.

Here are a few exclusive Saturn titles that are pretty good.

GunGriffon: The sequels on the Xbox and PS2 aren't as cool as this one.

Last Gladiators: Think of this as the Saturn's version of Pinball arcade. It looks and feels about as close to playing a real pinball machine can get on a video game.

Shining the Holy Ark: I liked this a hell of a lot more than FFVII. I liked Wild Arms more as well.

The Legend of Thor: A continuation of the excellent Beyond Oasis on the Genesis.

Enemy Zero: It's 1 part D's Diner and 2 parts Aliens all wrapped together for a thriller aboard a ship who's crew has mysteriously been killed.

Iron Lizard
01-31-2017, 03:12 PM
I had the same feeling with the Sega CD, it's probably the console (well, addon I guess) with the most okay library at all times.

Very little is offensively bad except for some silly shovelware titles, but there is almost nothing great. Just a bunch of games that are okay.

I refuse to count anything ported with CD music though, those don't count. You don't need redbook audio to enjoy Ecco.

Maybe not but it helps. I can't play Chuck Rock II with out. Granted I paid 99Ę back in 1995. In fact almost all my good Sega Cd games I bought when were dirt cheap so I always loved the system.

Ecco
01-31-2017, 03:14 PM
I had the same feeling with the Sega CD, it's probably the console (well, addon I guess) with the most okay library at all times.

Very little is offensively bad except for some silly shovelware titles, but there is almost nothing great. Just a bunch of games that are okay.

I refuse to count anything ported with CD music though, those don't count. You don't need redbook audio to enjoy Ecco.

Each Ecco soundtrack makes it a different experience though. Tides of Time is amazing on CD and it has 3D FMV.

Saturn: I must be in the minority here, I love my Saturn but to me, it's just a NiGHTS machine (and Christmas NiGHTS).

I have a "bootleg" demo disc that seems lame, and I used to have Sonic 3D Blast but I got rid of it. (I wish I kept it though for the special stages).

I'm sure there are other great games out there, but I never get around it to it. The retro stores always have the same handful of titles that never interested me.

Ecco
01-31-2017, 03:20 PM
Maybe not but it helps. I can't play Chuck Rock II with out. Granted I paid 99Ę back in 1995. In fact almost all my good Sega Cd games I bought when were dirt cheap so I always loved the system.

The Sega CD's approach is more interesting, updating standard games, or inventing new uses for FMV, or the 3D capabilities, or the bigger storage space, etc.

The Saturn seems more just a jumble of powerful hardware that got thrown together lol, when no one really knew what the next generation would be. It worked great for NiGHTS (which seemed to start with its own idea first) but most games' graphics don't even look appealing to me (like on this "bootleg" demo disc).

Thierry Henry
01-31-2017, 03:32 PM
Enemy Zero: It's 1 part D's Diner and 2 parts Aliens all wrapped together for a thriller aboard a ship who's crew has mysteriously been killed.

I enjoyed that one.

Interestingly enough, the third game in that series was originally planned as a launch game for the Panasonic M2, before it found it's way to the Dreamcast.

Gogogadget
01-31-2017, 04:19 PM
Each Ecco soundtrack makes it a different experience though. Tides of Time is amazing on CD and it has 3D FMV.

To be fair, Tides of Time is just an amazing game regardless. Both cart & CD have a fantastic soundtrack.

I do miss that time machine music on the CD version though, the Genesis one is just so perfectly fitting.

xelement5x
01-31-2017, 04:28 PM
Astal is another fun game I don't think I saw mentioned in the thread.

I'm not sure what world someone would live in to think the Saturn only had 2 good games. Maybe the PC-FX, but not the Saturn :P

Gogogadget
01-31-2017, 04:32 PM
The PC-FX has that one crappy RPG! and err.. those other RPGs.

Yeah.

Thierry Henry
01-31-2017, 04:41 PM
Did I hear the mention of PC-FX?

That reminds me, I need to get some Chip Chan Kick! action. :p

Gentlegamer
01-31-2017, 04:59 PM
Two good games on PC-FX?

1. Queen of Queens

What's the second?

Black_Tiger
01-31-2017, 05:37 PM
The Sega CD's approach is more interesting, updating standard games, or inventing new uses for FMV, or the 3D capabilities, or the bigger storage space, etc.

The Saturn seems more just a jumble of powerful hardware that got thrown together lol, when no one really knew what the next generation would be. It worked great for NiGHTS (which seemed to start with its own idea first) but most games' graphics don't even look appealing to me (like on this "bootleg" demo disc).

You don't like 2D games?

Vludi
01-31-2017, 07:30 PM
Garegga is all you need

segarule
01-31-2017, 08:21 PM
There's more than two good titles
Well, they admit that there is good titles for SS but not more than 2 Excellent titles exclusives (not figured in PS1). The problem is the definition of "Excellent" what for them is something memorable.

Black_Tiger
01-31-2017, 08:30 PM
Well, they admit that there is good titles for SS but not more than 2 Excellent titles exclusives (not figured in PS1). The problem is the definition of "Excellent" what for them is something memorable.

How are you supposed to remember games you've never played?

segarule
01-31-2017, 09:53 PM
How are you supposed to remember games you've never played?
They played many games but seems that they dont liked. Except Guardian heroes and other (i dont remember now). And others they dont know via console but emulator. However they dont know all saturn games and i think this is point for ignorance but is good have an opinion about games realized in Japan for example.

Lync
01-31-2017, 11:20 PM
Is this thread necessary?

If anyone can only think of two excellent games on the Saturn, you don't first question it like maybe it's true, and you certainly second don't create a topic to generate conversation as if the Saturn really only had two excellent games.

Instead, you first: Punch that person in the throat.

And second: Go and play Fighters Megamix.

BonusKun
02-01-2017, 03:40 AM
I mean damn. Let's not forget the entire capcom vs series with the RAM cart.

Bloodreign
02-01-2017, 03:54 AM
2 excellent titles on Saturn? Whomever said this is a madman. I'm over 50 Saturn titles, most of these quite good. There's even stuff I don't have that's great, like Street Fighter Zero 3, Marvel Super Heroes Vs Street Fighter, and Purikura Daisakusen (this one is super awesome, I also like the series she is from, Power Instinct) to name a few.

Then there's the Samurai Shodowns, the King of Fighters games, Tokimeki Memorial Taisen Puzzle Dama, Chibi Maruko-chan Taisen Puzzle Dama, Puyo Puyo Tsuu, Puyo Puyo Sun, 3 Magical Drops, the Phantasy Star Collection, and Saturn Bomberman. That's more than 2 there, tell those people to have their heads examined, they're crazy.

segarule
02-01-2017, 08:27 AM
Is this thread necessary?

If anyone can only think of two excellent games on the Saturn, you don't first question it like maybe it's true, and you certainly second don't create a topic to generate conversation as if the Saturn really only had two excellent games.

Instead, you first: Punch that person in the throat.

And second: Go and play Fighters Megamix.
Keep calm. I dont created the thread for know if my friends are correct or wrong but for members here share games considering to be AAA (?) Or excellent games realized in Japan and not known of most people.
I will try adopt you "first" advice.:boxer:

TrekkiesUnite118
02-01-2017, 08:33 AM
They claimed also that Sega Saturn was a fail Business which i considered too radical. IMO the Sega Saturn not had all the lineup than PS but i dont considered it a junk.
Thanks

This isn't radical at all. The Sega Saturn was an abysmal failure from a Business standpoint, especially outside of Japan. Now it wasn't as bad as say the Jaguar, but it was still in last place among the 3 big name systems and dead after about 2-3 years on the market.

Baloo
02-01-2017, 08:58 AM
NiGHTS into Dreams, Burning Rangers, Panzer Dragoon Saga in my opinion can all be considered Excellent games. Not to mention the Street Fighter Alpha 3 port (better than the arcade)

IrishNinja
02-01-2017, 02:13 PM
its weird that retro stuff has been in for years, but ignorance about stuff like the saturn's library of classics still persists - i guess i'd hoped with scenes like that & the turbografx absolutely exploding in price, some knowledge would spread with it.

Gentlegamer
02-01-2017, 03:13 PM
I wish most people still thought old games were bad.

Gogogadget
02-01-2017, 03:37 PM
NiGHTS into Dreams, Burning Rangers, Panzer Dragoon Saga in my opinion can all be considered Excellent games. Not to mention the Street Fighter Alpha 3 port (better than the arcade)

I'd put Burning Rangers in the excellent column if it was a bit more polished, but the ever present pop in and that sours it for me.

Which is a shame because the game has some excellent ideas thrown into the mix

Black_Tiger
02-01-2017, 05:19 PM
I'd put Burning Rangers in the excellent column if it was a bit more polished, but the ever present pop in and that sours it for me.

Which is a shame because the game has some excellent ideas thrown into the mix

Although I'm not a fan of Burning Rangers, I didn't find any pop-up in it to be off-putting. Maybe if I cared more about the game I would.

Pop-up only seemed bad to me in games with poor overall artwork/style or it ruined the gameplay.

Daytona USA is still one of my favorite games of the generation and looks and plays great because it captures the magic of the arcade game. Technicalities like framerate and draw distance aren't equal across games and it's each game's overall experience that I react to.

I realize that it's likely similar for you and we have different preferences, but I'm still surprised that it could ruin that particular game for anyone who finds it otherwise excellent.

gamevet
02-01-2017, 09:04 PM
its weird that retro stuff has been in for years, but ignorance about stuff like the saturn's library of classics still persists - i guess i'd hoped with scenes like that & the turbografx absolutely exploding in price, some knowledge would spread with it.

It's kind of a double edged sword. It didn't get a lot of love, but those that own the system and its low print run of games hold onto the titles more than any other console. I'd say that it's one of the more expensive consoles (outside of the NEO-GEO) to collect games for. I had the good fortune of getting most of my games on the cheap for the console, because I've had it since day one in North America.

bultje112
02-02-2017, 03:38 AM
They played many games but seems that they dont liked. Except Guardian heroes and other (i dont remember now). And others they dont know via console but emulator. However they dont know all saturn games and i think this is point for ignorance but is good have an opinion about games realized in Japan for example.

where you talking to this guy?











http://i.huffpost.com/gen/4164784/images/n-TRUMP-WWE-628x314.jpg

Gogogadget
02-02-2017, 08:17 AM
Although I'm not a fan of Burning Rangers, I didn't find any pop-up in it to be off-putting. Maybe if I cared more about the game I would.

Pop-up only seemed bad to me in games with poor overall artwork/style or it ruined the gameplay.

Daytona USA is still one of my favorite games of the generation and looks and plays great because it captures the magic of the arcade game. Technicalities like framerate and draw distance aren't equal across games and it's each game's overall experience that I react to.

I realize that it's likely similar for you and we have different preferences, but I'm still surprised that it could ruin that particular game for anyone who finds it otherwise excellent.

It doesn't ruin the game for me, it's still enjoyable and unique. it just seriously needed some more polish before being sent out the door and thats a shame really.

I love Daytona USA as well, but the 20fps of the Saturn version kinda kills it for me a little, but then growing up I only ever played the Arcade, i'd probably of been a bit more on board if I had a Saturn when I was younger.

Folco
02-02-2017, 04:50 PM
These were all Saturn exclusive at the time:
Sega Rally, Daytona USA CE, Virtua Fighter 2, NiGHTS into the Dream, Panzer Dragon Zwei, Panzer Dragon Saga, Shinobi Legions, Die Hard Arcade, Shining Force III, Guardian Heroes, Bubble Symphony, Elevator Action Returns, Fighters Megamix, Saturn Bomberman, Bulk Slash, Radiant Silvergun.

Gogogadget
02-02-2017, 04:51 PM
Those games you listed are exactly why the Saturn gets so much shit.

Some of those are genuinely fantastic games, but a 'casual' would never of heard of them, therefore the Saturn has nowhere near the good games of the Playstation, therefore it sucks.

Shinobi Legions is a total dud though.

segarule
02-02-2017, 06:55 PM
Shinobi Legions is a total dud though.
I liked Shin shinobiden.

gamevet
02-02-2017, 10:47 PM
Those games you listed are exactly why the Saturn gets so much shit.

Some of those are genuinely fantastic games, but a 'casual' would never of heard of them, therefore the Saturn has nowhere near the good games of the Playstation, therefore it sucks.

Shinobi Legions is a total dud though.

The PlayStation launched in North America with a bunch of arcade style games and goofy stuff like ESPN Extreme Sports. The casuals were gawking over Battle Arena Toshinden, while the superior playing Virtua Fighter didn't even register with them.

Sik
02-02-2017, 10:51 PM
If we talk about casuals, lemme tell you that if you asked them the only Saturn games they'd know about (if any at all) are... Sonic 3D and Sonic R. They wouldn't even know which games had Saturn ports, let alone which ones are exclusive. So there's that.

Also that list is missing Super Tempo (though that remained Japan only).

bultje112
02-03-2017, 05:12 AM
The PlayStation launched in North America with a bunch of arcade style games and goofy stuff like ESPN Extreme Sports. The casuals were gawking over Battle Arena Toshinden, while the superior playing Virtua Fighter didn't even register with them.

panzer dragoon alone beat anything released on psx for the first 6 months

Gogogadget
02-03-2017, 07:59 AM
The PlayStation launched in North America with a bunch of arcade style games and goofy stuff like ESPN Extreme Sports. The casuals were gawking over Battle Arena Toshinden, while the superior playing Virtua Fighter didn't even register with them.

But Virtua Fighter 1 on the Saturn was terrible

gamevet
02-03-2017, 12:01 PM
But Virtua Fighter 1 on the Saturn was terrible

The only thing terrible about VF on the Saturn was the polygon pop-up. It had all the gameplay that made the arcade game great. Battle Arena Toshiden was a horrible fighting game that looked better to the average Joe because it had texture mapping and transparencies.

Black_Tiger
02-03-2017, 12:33 PM
But Virtua Fighter 1 on the Saturn was terrible

It's pretty much the same game as every Virtua Fighter entry that has followed and remains a timeless quality game.

Toshinden is terrible.

WarmSignal
02-03-2017, 12:33 PM
I think this discussion comes up about once every year, and every year I say I think Saturn is the most overrated Sega console. To date I own about 25 games, half of which are admittedly just shelf-filler and I'm struggling the think of much else I'd even want for it. It needed to be a late 90s console, but mostly failed to deliver in that respect. Some may like that about it, but I don't. No matter how crude, ugly or simplistic, I like the late 90s era of N64 and PC games. That was my jam at the time. If that's casual, then I'm causal. That's what I expected out of the Saturn, and that's not what it delivered.

Had I considered actually buying a Saturn back in the day, as soon as I would realize there was no Sonic, it would have been no sale. WTF is Sega doing with a console that has no Sonic? There's no way Virtua Fighter, Daytona USA or Virtua Cop would have ever sold me on it. A good console shouldn't require that you know every single game that exists for it, in all regions, just to feel like there's an adequate selection.

Gogogadget
02-03-2017, 01:14 PM
It's pretty much the same game as every Virtua Fighter entry that has followed and remains a timeless quality game.

Toshinden is terrible.

Honestly, I played very little of it, but it's a pretty broken port.

Virtua Fighter 2 is like leagues ahead, much better port.

bultje112
02-03-2017, 03:03 PM
But Virtua Fighter 1 on the Saturn was terrible

what? it was 99% arcade perfect

bultje112
02-03-2017, 03:03 PM
Honestly, I played very little of it, but it's a pretty broken port.

Virtua Fighter 2 is like leagues ahead, much better port.

no virtua fighter 2 is a better game, not a better port

Black_Tiger
02-03-2017, 04:29 PM
The quality or technical achievement of graphics are completely independent of the quality of the actual game. All <16-bit games are technically garbage compared to 32-bit games. Does that mean they're all terrible?

Gentlegamer
02-03-2017, 05:17 PM
All <16-bit games are technically garbage compared to 32-bit games.

I understand your point, but this is a hard statement to take on its own.

gamevet
02-03-2017, 09:36 PM
The quality or technical achievement of graphics are completely independent of the quality of the actual game. All <16-bit games are technically garbage compared to 32-bit games. Does that mean they're all terrible?

Exactly. Going from playing Genesis, Sega CD and SNES games to the Saturn was a mind blowing experience. Virtua Racing on the Genesis plays nothing like the arcade, and don't get me started on the visuals, but for someone that owned a Genesis at the time, it must have been pretty exciting to see Sega's 3D racer on the console. The same could be said for playing Virtua Fighter and Daytona on the Saturn; sure they may have had their technical issues, but there wasn't any 3D racer, or 3D fighter on the previous generation of consoles that could compare.

gamevet
02-03-2017, 09:49 PM
I think this discussion comes up about once every year, and every year I say I think Saturn is the most overrated Sega console. To date I own about 25 games, half of which are admittedly just shelf-filler and I'm struggling the think of much else I'd even want for it. It needed to be a late 90s console, but mostly failed to deliver in that respect. Some may like that about it, but I don't. No matter how crude, ugly or simplistic, I like the late 90s era of N64 and PC games. That was my jam at the time. If that's casual, then I'm causal. That's what I expected out of the Saturn, and that's not what it delivered.

Had I considered actually buying a Saturn back in the day, as soon as I would realize there was no Sonic, it would have been no sale. WTF is Sega doing with a console that has no Sonic? There's no way Virtua Fighter, Daytona USA or Virtua Cop would have ever sold me on it. A good console shouldn't require that you know every single game that exists for it, in all regions, just to feel like there's an adequate selection.


No, the N64 is the most over-rated console ever. It's probably my least played console ever, but it isn't, because I own a Jaguar. I've owned it since launch, much like the Saturn, and between the Saturn and PlayStation, most of my N64 playtime was with the 1st and 2nd party stuff, while the rest was meh! I'd be lucky to find 25 titles on the N64 that I thought were better than okay, and I own the rarer games likes of Ogre Battle: Person of Lordly Caliber.


The reason why you hear people being passionate about the Saturn, is because most of the people that bought the console were not your typical casual audience. The Saturn had a lot of great arcade ports, when things like MAME didn't exist. You'd be amazed at how many hidden gems there are for the console with titles like Dark Savior, Tempest 2000 (best version of the game), Last Gladiators, Wing Arms, Mr. Bones, Mystaria: The Realms of Lore, Winter Heat, Decathlete and (10 player) Saturn Bomberman.

WarmSignal
02-04-2017, 12:01 AM
No, the N64 is the most over-rated console ever. It's probably my least played console ever, but it isn't, because I own a Jaguar. I've owned it since launch, much like the Saturn, and between the Saturn and PlayStation, most of my N64 playtime was with the 1st and 2nd party stuff, while the rest was meh! I'd be lucky to find 25 titles on the N64 that I thought were better than okay, and I own the rarer games likes of Ogre Battle: Person of Lordly Caliber.


The reason why you hear people being passionate about the Saturn, is because most of the people that bought the console were not your typical casual audience. The Saturn had a lot of great arcade ports, when things like MAME didn't exist. You'd be amazed at how many hidden gems there are for the console with titles like Dark Savior, Tempest 2000 (best version of the game), Last Gladiators, Wing Arms, Mr. Bones, Mystaria: The Realms of Lore, Winter Heat, Decathlete and (10 player) Saturn Bomberman.

Well I said it was the most overrated Sega console, and that's mostly thanks to Sega diehards hyping it as this crowning jewel of underdog consoles. I've never been able to see it that way. The Genesis was an example of a badass underdog console, not Saturn. I can appreciate nostalgia, and I get it. I'm the same way about N64. I'm willing to admit N64 is overrated, and that the library is kinda small, but it was still an important system in the timeline of console gaming. Saturn only mattered, or appealed to a select few, had almost no impact in the west. I really don't care what went on in Japan, because I didn't live there and it'll never matter to me.

I can't argue that there aren't any "hidden gems" on Saturn, it's true because almost any game worthwhile on it is a hidden gem. But hidden gems can't really make a whole console. Maybe help make it less of an underwhelming experience, but not so when the meat and potatoes are missing. My point is the Saturn is overrated because so many Sega fans like to claim it's some great misunderstood console. But come on, it was a serious blow to Sega for good reason. I think the misunderstanding was on Sega's part.

Mystaria made your hidden gems list? I'm not into the genre, but I've only ever heard negative things about that game.

Ecco
02-04-2017, 12:34 AM
Exactly. Going from playing Genesis, Sega CD and SNES games to the Saturn was a mind blowing experience. Virtua Racing on the Genesis plays nothing like the arcade, and don't get me started on the visuals, but for someone that owned a Genesis at the time, it must have been pretty exciting to see Sega's 3D racer on the console. The same could be said for playing Virtua Fighter and Daytona on the Saturn; sure they may have had their technical issues, but there wasn't any 3D racer, or 3D fighter on the previous generation of consoles that could compare.

I'm jumping into this thread, but, the consensus always seems that 32x Virtua Fighter and VRD are both superior to their counterparts on Saturn.

As for the general thread: I love my Saturn but literally for just two games, NiGHTS and Christmas NiGHTS. I guess I'm in the minority of forums users here lol.

Ecco
02-04-2017, 12:46 AM
I think this discussion comes up about once every year, and every year I say I think Saturn is the most overrated Sega console. To date I own about 25 games, half of which are admittedly just shelf-filler and I'm struggling the think of much else I'd even want for it. It needed to be a late 90s console, but mostly failed to deliver in that respect. Some may like that about it, but I don't. No matter how crude, ugly or simplistic, I like the late 90s era of N64 and PC games. That was my jam at the time. If that's casual, then I'm causal. That's what I expected out of the Saturn, and that's not what it delivered.

Had I considered actually buying a Saturn back in the day, as soon as I would realize there was no Sonic, it would have been no sale. WTF is Sega doing with a console that has no Sonic? There's no way Virtua Fighter, Daytona USA or Virtua Cop would have ever sold me on it. A good console shouldn't require that you know every single game that exists for it, in all regions, just to feel like there's an adequate selection.

Yeah it seems NiGHTS was meant to be the equivalent of Sonic. I love NiGHTS but it could never have mass appeal like Sonic, and it made no sense trying to compete with Mario 64.

Actually the whole console seems like a jumbled mess of hardware; it's unbelievable it was supposed to compete against the N64.

NiGHTS is still brilliant regardless lol.

gamevet
02-04-2017, 01:20 AM
I'm jumping into this thread, but, the consensus always seems that 32x Virtua Fighter and VRD are both superior to their counterparts on Saturn.

As for the general thread: I love my Saturn but literally for just two games, NiGHTS and Christmas NiGHTS. I guess I'm in the minority of forums users here lol.

No, they are not. Virtua Fighter on the 32X has much simpler polygons and the music isn't in the same league as the Saturn game. VRD does have more longevity with more racing options, but the graphics and sound don't compare to the mediocre Saturn port of the arcade game.

TNaB4VgCST0&t=208s

BLU9JJY9SJY

I wasn't even talking about the 32X, when I was talking about the transition from the 16-bit consoles to the 32-bit Saturn. Still, the 32X versions of those games were not as smooth as their Saturn equivalents, and they had to cut out sound and graphics quality to make those game run as well as they did.

Lync
02-04-2017, 01:35 AM
As for the general thread: I love my Saturn but literally for just two games, NiGHTS and Christmas NiGHTS. I guess I'm in the minority of forums users here lol.

You just touched on something I was thinking about having read the last few posts.

As a kid, I had but a handful of games, but those three or four great games made a console gold. Now, in the aftermarket years and age of hyper-collecting, we expect the number of 'excellent' titles to dictate if a console is considered great, good, bad, over and underrated. It'd kind of stupid. What happened to if you had a single game that you really enjoyed, that console is then worth owning?

Anyways, Saturn most overrated Sega console? I wouldn't say that at all, it was the right console for the right time but with the wrong support and direction. And maybe this will read as arrogant, but I don't think Sega made an overrated console. Having ended on the Dreamcast, man, that is a system that goes next to the word 'underrated' in my vocab.

N64 overrated? I used to have a love-hate relationship with the 64, but having scratched, clawed, and dug my way through the library the last year or two, I really like the 64. The problem that plagues the N64 are the die-hards that celebrate the same ten or so games for it. If my last statement wasn't arrogant, this may be, but I feel that the N64 was the last Nintendo console that had a great deal of character. If they hadn't pissed off Squaresoft, Capcom, etc...

Lastly, Hidden gems? These don't exist anymore. Ten years ago, a hidden gem was a good game a lot of people missed the first time over. Today, a hidden gem is a crappy and/or undersold game people like and don't stop talking about... (see 'Conker's Bad Fur Day,' etc.)

Vludi
02-04-2017, 01:35 AM
I don't get how some people like the Genesis but hate the Saturn, they aren't even that different, hell it was arguably stronger in some genres: RPGs, Racing, fighting, railgun/lightgun, STG etc. If all you played on the Genesis was Sonic maybe it makes sense though.

sull56ivan2010
02-04-2017, 02:02 AM
You just touched on something I was thinking about having read the last few posts.

As a kid, I had but a handful of games, but those three or four great games made a console gold. Now, in the aftermarket years and age of hyper-collecting, we expect the number of 'excellent' titles to dictate if a console is considered great, good, bad, over and underrated. It'd kind of stupid. What happened to if you had a single game that you really enjoyed, that console is then worth owning?

Anyways, Saturn most overrated Sega console? I wouldn't say that at all, it was the right console for the right time but with the wrong support and direction. And maybe this will read as arrogant, but I don't think Sega made an overrated console. Having ended on the Dreamcast, man, that is a system that goes next to the word 'underrated' in my vocab.

N64 overrated? I used to have a love-hate relationship with the 64, but having scratched, clawed, and dug my way through the library the last year or two, I really like the 64. The problem that plagues the N64 are the die-hards that celebrate the same ten or so games for it. If my last statement wasn't arrogant, this may be, but I feel that the N64 was the last Nintendo console that had a great deal of character. If they hadn't pissed off Squaresoft, Capcom, etc...

Lastly, Hidden gems? These don't exist anymore. Ten years ago, a hidden gem was a good game a lot of people missed the first time over. Today, a hidden gem is a crappy and/or undersold game people like and don't stop talking about... (see 'Conker's Bad Fur Day,' etc.)

I think it depends on how people hype up the Saturn. I find it to be somewhat underrated. You could make the case of the Dreamcast being overrated. I'm not saying it is since I never played the system, but some could say it was.

I have a hard time figuring out if the people that are so much in love with Nintendo systems are people that do love the systems and games or if it's just a bandwagon/hipster thing to do. SNES is my personal example of die hards celebrating the same ten to twenty games. Personally, I find it to be the most overrated system ever.

gamevet
02-04-2017, 02:26 AM
I think it depends on how people hype up the Saturn. I find it to be somewhat underrated. You could make the case of the Dreamcast being overrated. I'm not saying it is since I never played the system, but some could say it was.

I have a hard time figuring out if the people that are so much in love with Nintendo systems are people that do love the systems and games or if it's just a bandwagon/hipster thing to do. SNES is my personal example of die hards celebrating the same ten to twenty games. Personally, I find it to be the most overrated system ever.

I don't think that the Dreamcast was over-rated at all. It provided a pretty solid online gaming experience, long before the Xbox took the crown a couple of years later.

My opinion of the SNES is, that it was the best console that Nintendo ever created. It had the best 3rd party support, along with the best 1st party titles Nintendo has ever created for their consoles. I think that the NES is the most over-rated console from Nintendo.

Lync
02-04-2017, 03:55 AM
It boils down to how much attention you invest into other people's opinions of things really; time is wasted watching, listening, and reading about other people's thoughts about games. Like, these discussions are worthwhile but the popularization of older games as some kind of media facet is pointless to me.

What I'm getting at is the purest experience of it all is to live long enough to retire, go into seclusion, and play what you've got. That is the ideal gaming condition for me. Completely off the grid, and enjoy playing whatever you have before machines take over the world. Or whatever is going to get us...

Kamahl
02-04-2017, 06:24 AM
There are plenty of great SNES games outside the typical 10 or so that people throw around, certainly many substantially better than DKC, Earthbound, Starfox, or Yoshi's Island.

Hagane, Front Mission: Gun Hazard, Clock Tower, Pocky and Rocky 2, Super Turrican (criminally cut short by the published unfortunately), Demon's Crest, Ninja Warriors Again, Terranigma, Wild Guns, Lufia 2, Ganbare Goemon 2 and 3, Gundam Endless Duel, Fire Emblem, Tactics Ogre, Der Langrisser, even Sparkster.

I have not explored the Saturn library as well as I have the SNESs unfortunately, but a few tiny ROMs are much easier to get than 600 mb CDs.

IrishNinja
02-04-2017, 07:45 AM
I wish most people still thought old games were bad.

....fair


It's kind of a double edged sword. It didn't get a lot of love, but those that own the system and its low print run of games hold onto the titles more than any other console. I'd say that it's one of the more expensive consoles (outside of the NEO-GEO) to collect games for. I had the good fortune of getting most of my games on the cheap for the console, because I've had it since day one in North America.

as a hardcore sega kid, i wish i'dve held out....but $400 at launch & nothing appealing to me (wish i'dve known about panzer dragoon, wish sega would've tried harder to keep the western crowd) pushed me over to the PSX. no real regrets there, but man, you saved a lot - plus it mut've been an exciting time for arcade fans

segarule
02-04-2017, 09:11 AM
Mr. Bones
Very good Gamevet. Very good. I had forget this one! I loved it!

Thief
02-04-2017, 09:19 AM
I think the Dreamast was more overrated then Saturn if we are going that route of discussion. Otherwise anyone who was around 32bit Era and didn't experience both Saturn and PS1, well, they missed out. As they went together like beer and pretzels.


Gamevet also mentioned Mr. Bones. I bought that because EGM loved it. But I was let down to where I wish I never have bought it. Weekend rental would have been more then enough.


I don't get how some people like the Genesis but hate the Saturn, they aren't even that different, hell it was arguably stronger in some genres: RPGs, Racing, fighting, railgun/lightgun, STG etc. If all you played on the Genesis was Sonic maybe it makes sense though.

I agree with this.

Thief
02-04-2017, 09:40 AM
....fair



as a hardcore sega kid, i wish i'dve held out....but $400 at launch & nothing appealing to me (wish i'dve known about panzer dragoon, wish sega would've tried harder to keep the western crowd) pushed me over to the PSX. no real regrets there, but man, you saved a lot - plus it mut've been an exciting time for arcade fans

The opposite for me. Saturn had what I needed at the start and PS1 didn't. Even back then I knew Toshiden was only style over substance compared to Segas VF. Ridge Racer vs Daytona? No contest either. Gamepads for both? Don't get me started.

The itch for me to finally get PS1 was Twisted Metal 2. No regrets. 32bit Era was the last big truly exciting time to be a kid gamer for me. Glad I had both.

Folco
02-04-2017, 10:21 AM
You just touched on something I was thinking about having read the last few posts.

As a kid, I had but a handful of games, but those three or four great games made a console gold. Now, in the aftermarket years and age of hyper-collecting, we expect the number of 'excellent' titles to dictate if a console is considered great, good, bad, over and underrated. It'd kind of stupid. What happened to if you had a single game that you really enjoyed, that console is then worth owning?

Anyways, Saturn most overrated Sega console? I wouldn't say that at all, it was the right console for the right time but with the wrong support and direction. And maybe this will read as arrogant, but I don't think Sega made an overrated console. Having ended on the Dreamcast, man, that is a system that goes next to the word 'underrated' in my vocab.

N64 overrated? I used to have a love-hate relationship with the 64, but having scratched, clawed, and dug my way through the library the last year or two, I really like the 64. The problem that plagues the N64 are the die-hards that celebrate the same ten or so games for it. If my last statement wasn't arrogant, this may be, but I feel that the N64 was the last Nintendo console that had a great deal of character. If they hadn't pissed off Squaresoft, Capcom, etc...

Lastly, Hidden gems? These don't exist anymore. Ten years ago, a hidden gem was a good game a lot of people missed the first time over. Today, a hidden gem is a crappy and/or undersold game people like and don't stop talking about... (see 'Conker's Bad Fur Day,' etc.)
And those 10 or so games are only from first party or second party while games from third-parties like SpaceStation Silicon Valley, Mystical Ninja and Rocket Robot on Wheels are rarely talked about.

Thief
02-04-2017, 11:16 AM
Oh yes, I missed this the first time. You're right, Irish Ninja, it was truly an exciting time for Arcade fans. Of which I was one (but really, who wasn't back then? Arcades were king, and we were finally getting a true taste of Arcades at home). Just to be able to finally be able to play a game like Daytona USA with a Steering Wheel in the comfort of my own home all summer vacation was a dream come true. This was also back when I also forgot exactly what the Arcade version looked like, so to me the original Saturn port looked spot on to where I was 100% satisfied. Wasn't until I read more gaming magazines bring up this port and when I finally seen the Arcade again that I learned words frame rate and pop ups/draw distance. Though I wouldn't be more familiar with frame rate differences until much later in life (today's gaming). So yeah, virgin eyes worked wonders back then too, something that's good to keep in mind during the start of the 3D gaming era.

cabear
02-04-2017, 07:05 PM
i love my saturn. it doesn't get a huge amount of play from me but whe ni do play it, tons of great games and times to be had.

gamevet
02-04-2017, 09:21 PM
Gamevet also mentioned Mr. Bones. I bought that because EGM loved it. But I was let down to where I wish I never have bought it. Weekend rental would have been more then enough.



I once owned Battle Monsters for the Saturn, because Dave Halverson and the crew at Gamefan magazine were gushing about it. I think they may have been dropping acid when they played it, because that Saturn game was pure garbage. I immediately got rid of the game after playing it.

Ecco
02-06-2017, 02:37 AM
No, they are not. Virtua Fighter on the 32X has much simpler polygons and the music isn't in the same league as the Saturn game. VRD does have more longevity with more racing options, but the graphics and sound don't compare to the mediocre Saturn port of the arcade game.

TNaB4VgCST0&t=208s

BLU9JJY9SJY

I wasn't even talking about the 32X, when I was talking about the transition from the 16-bit consoles to the 32-bit Saturn. Still, the 32X versions of those games were not as smooth as their Saturn equivalents, and they had to cut out sound and graphics quality to make those game run as well as they did.

Didn't you and I talk about this, like 6 months ago lol.

I still have not bought Saturn Virtua Fighter or Virtua Racing. These games never show up at the local store. So I can't compare through my own personal experience. (I only have the 32x versions.)

However, I think it's just factual to state that the majority considers these two titles as superior on 32x. VF is considered superior for its tight, responsive controls, while VRD is considered best for its exclusive stages that are only on 32x.

Obviously Saturn has more powerful hardware for polygons, shadows, etc. but the majority view is that 32x has the best home version of Virtua Fighter and Virtua Racing.

When I finally buy the Saturn versions someday, I'll tell my personal impressions. :cool:

Sik
02-06-2017, 04:20 AM
Holy shit, I knew the Saturn port of Virtua Fighter was botched but I didn't think the ring would get clipped out like that o_O (also the 32X version manages to get less flicker because of the low poly models, there's a lot of flicker on the Saturn from small polygons constantly changing their order in the depth sorting)

Black_Tiger
02-06-2017, 08:08 AM
Didn't you and I talk about this, like 6 months ago lol.

I still have not bought Saturn Virtua Fighter or Virtua Racing. These games never show up at the local store. So I can't compare through my own personal experience. (I only have the 32x versions.)

However, I think it's just factual to state that the majority considers these two titles as superior on 32x. VF is considered superior for its tight, responsive controls, while VRD is considered best for its exclusive stages that are only on 32x.

Obviously Saturn has more powerful hardware for polygons, shadows, etc. but the majority view is that 32x has the best home version of Virtua Fighter and Virtua Racing.

When I finally buy the Saturn versions someday, I'll tell my personal impressions. :cool:

I don't think that Virtua Fighter 32X is the best home version, as it's always felt very compromised to me. Kind of like how if you could prove that some of the 16-bit ports of SFII' games play exactly the same as the arcade versions, then they must be the "better" simplay because of the extra options.

I love the 32X and Virtua Fighter in general, but I had already played the Saturn and arcade versions of VF and VF2 to death by the time I was abke to find a copy of the 32X version and it does feel the same, the way that the Saturn and arcade versions do. I can pull off the same moves and combos, but it still feels sluggish and slower and the crudeness of the visuals is lower enough in clarity that it feels like it's harder to judge what's happening or anticipate your opponent.

There is also the PS2 version, which isn't the same kind of port since it's going from weaker to more powerful hardware, but it does feature more characters and expanded moves.

Anyway, playing Virtua Fighter bitd the bit of break up never bothered me and I was more impressed by everything else that was happening. I think that it's just loophole people stretch to try to prop up the 32X version. It makes no sense at all, because if you're honestly that sensitive to an imperfection in 3D graphics, then the 32X version would be unplayable for you due to the deficiencies across the board.

PSA: that VC Decide channel is a bad source for comparisons like that. They use emulation for everything with random settings. In some of the Playstation comparisons I've seen, the graphical imperfections were mostly removed. They also often use the worst clips for comparison, often showing only part of a single stage of games that need much more or any other part to compare. It's still neat to reference, but you should be aware of what you are and are not seeing, unlike the armchair developers who frequent their comments sections.

Ecco
02-06-2017, 08:23 AM
I don't think that Virtua Fighter 32X is the best home version, as it's always felt very compromised to me. Kind of like how if you could prove that some of the 16-bit ports of SFII' games play exactly the same as the arcade versions, then they must be the "better" simplay because of the extra options.

I love the 32X and Virtua Fighter in general, but I had already played the Saturn and arcade versions of VF and VF2 to death by the time I was abke to find a copy of the 32X version and it does feel the same, the way that the Saturn and arcade versions do. I can pull off the same moves and combos, but it still feels sluggish and slower and the crudeness of the visuals is lower enough in clarity that it feels like it's harder to judge what's happening or anticipate your opponent.

There is also the PS2 version, which isn't the same kind of port since it's going from weaker to more powerful hardware, but it does feature more characters and expanded moves.

Anyway, playing Virtua Fighter bitd the bit of break up never bothered me and I was more impressed by everything else that was happening. I think that it's just loophole people stretch to try to prop up the 32X version. It makes no sense at all, because if you're honestly that sensitive to an imperfection in 3D graphics, then the 32X version would be unplayable for you due to the deficiencies across the board.

By the way, I didn't mention the Saturn break-up. If anything, the CD loading would break up the action (but I haven't played the CD version yet myself). Compared to CD media, 32x is at least always instant. I thought I heard the controls were better on 32x, but maybe I'm wrong, maybe they're just the same.

The low-polygon count isn't really a strike against the 32x version (unless it actually bothers someone; I think it looks nice). It's not a problem because the whole point of VF isn't about polygons lol. It's about people wearing sensors on their bodies to create the models and movements of the fighters. :cool:

Ecco
02-06-2017, 08:27 AM
Re: The OP: I think a big part of the problem was the marketing for Saturn (in the US anyway). We saw ads for NiGHTS which looked cool, but which did not have mass appeal. Then we saw ads for football games and sports games. And that's pretty much all the ads on TV and commercials, that I remember from the time. For people (like me) who weren't into sports, the Saturn seemed like a dud, with a library of ugly sports games.

gamevet
02-06-2017, 10:38 AM
By the way, I didn't mention the Saturn break-up. If anything, the CD loading would break up the action (but I haven't played the CD version yet myself). Compared to CD media, 32x is at least always instant. I thought I heard the controls were better on 32x, but maybe I'm wrong, maybe they're just the same.

The low-polygon count isn't really a strike against the 32x version (unless it actually bothers someone; I think it looks nice). It's not a problem because the whole point of VF isn't about polygons lol. It's about people wearing sensors on their bodies to create the models and movements of the fighters. :cool:

I'll take the 15 to 20 seconds of loading to have that beautiful Red Book audio over the compromised sound of the 32X versions.

And I do own both versions of Virtua Fighter. The 32X version of VF feels sluggish and the game runs @30 fps at best. The Saturn version is a silky smooth 60.

Virtua Racing is a different story. Neither version looks or feels like playing the arcade game. The frame rate is horrible, the track width has been reduced and the sound is sort of meh. I'd much rather play the arcade game with MAME, or the PS2 version and also have a much superior racing wheel.

Black_Tiger
02-06-2017, 10:54 AM
I'm not sure if VF32X even has a real light source for flat shading. The models may have so few polygons that changes in shade are hard to catch, but I wouldn't be surprised if they just change shade slightly as part of their animations. The end result is much less 3D looking models and harder to discern animations.

segarule
02-06-2017, 11:57 AM
VF in Saturn is a much better game than 32x version. Only the soundtrack show the capacities of console that 32x dont touch it. Pay attention in ground and colors square. Not doubt here, Saturn is better.

Thief
02-06-2017, 12:37 PM
All this Saturn VF talk and no mention of it's most excellent sound fx. Shame, shame.

gamevet
02-06-2017, 01:09 PM
I brought up its Redbook Audio. Yeah, when Jacky does his round house kick, the sound goes around the room (using Pro-Logic receiver) like a giant tidal wave.

Sik
02-06-2017, 05:32 PM
The low-polygon count isn't really a strike against the 32x version (unless it actually bothers someone; I think it looks nice). It's not a problem because the whole point of VF isn't about polygons lol. It's about people wearing sensors on their bodies to create the models and movements of the fighters. :cool:
The whole point of Virtua Fighter was to showcase their 3D hardware (at least on arcades).

But yeah, honestly the lo-poly models look better (there, I said it). The lighting is a lot less harsh on those and as I mentioned there are many less sorting problems from small polygons constantly switching places. Would have been nice to get other patterns for the ring floor (even if still much less detailed than the arcade), but oh well.


And I do own both versions of Virtua Fighter. The 32X version of VF feels sluggish and the game runs @30 fps at best. The Saturn version is a silky smooth 60.
32X version runs at 20FPS I think. It seems to be a hard limitation of whatever 3D code they used, all the 32X games with untextured polygons cap at 20FPS (though for the most part, they stick to that framerate).


I'm not sure if VF32X even has a real light source for flat shading. The models may have so few polygons that changes in shade are hard to catch, but I wouldn't be surprised if they just change shade slightly as part of their animations. The end result is much less 3D looking models and harder to discern animations.
They do have a light source (the shading depends on the camera angle), though it's probably palette based (i.e. increase or decrease the color index) instead of RGB. Now, Virtua Racing 32X definitely doesn't have any lighting at all (the wheels spin only 1/8 of a circle to give the impression of shading, but that hack aside everything remains a fixed color).

Gogogadget
02-06-2017, 06:22 PM
20fps for a 32X isnt bad, those Super FX SNES games run at what? 6?

Black_Tiger
02-06-2017, 07:38 PM
20fps for a 32X isnt bad, those Super FX SNES games run at what? 6?

Yeah, it's very impressive and looks great on its own, but if hairs are being split over a minor graphical detail in the Saturn version, the 32X visuals are much more imperfect and actually affect the gameplay. The extra variety of modes is nice, but I don't think that most people, hardcore Sega fans or normies, would insist that the 32X version is the best.

Sik
02-06-2017, 08:25 PM
Except people for the most part absolutely hate the Saturn port (not the remix, which is considered what it should have been in the first place). Then again if you're going to get that nitpicky over visuals you'd insist that anything that isn't the arcade is shit.

The problem with the first Saturn port isn't that visuals aren't perfect, it's that the polygons look glitchy as heck which is a whole different kind of problem. People are going to be way more forgiving to simplified graphics than to glitchy graphics.

Vludi
02-06-2017, 08:49 PM
From what I know...

Saturn port: downgraded visuals but faithful gameplay to the arcade
32x: much downgraded visuals but tighter controls than Arcade/Saturn
Remix: improved graphics and controls over arcade/saturn original

The arcade original runs at 30 fps, for the ports I'm not sure but I think Saturn+remix are 30 fps too.

IrishNinja
02-06-2017, 09:09 PM
Oh yes, I missed this the first time. You're right, Irish Ninja, it was truly an exciting time for Arcade fans. Of which I was one (but really, who wasn't back then? Arcades were king, and we were finally getting a true taste of Arcades at home). Just to be able to finally be able to play a game like Daytona USA with a Steering Wheel in the comfort of my own home all summer vacation was a dream come true. This was also back when I also forgot exactly what the Arcade version looked like, so to me the original Saturn port looked spot on to where I was 100% satisfied. Wasn't until I read more gaming magazines bring up this port and when I finally seen the Arcade again that I learned words frame rate and pop ups/draw distance. Though I wouldn't be more familiar with frame rate differences until much later in life (today's gaming). So yeah, virgin eyes worked wonders back then too, something that's good to keep in mind during the start of the 3D gaming era.

yeah, like PS2/xbox/GC gen was cool but 32-bit gen was absolutely magical. ive loved finally diving into the saturn's library these last 5 years or so, but at the time, the combination of FF VII's announcement & seeing Resident Evil pushed me over the edge, personally. looking back, you couldn't go wrong with either of em.

Black_Tiger
02-06-2017, 09:14 PM
From what I know...

Saturn port: downgraded visuals but faithful gameplay to the arcade
32x: much downgraded visuals but tigher controls than Arcade/Saturn
Remix: improved graphics and controls over arcade/saturn original

The arcade original runs at 30 fps, for the ports I'm not sure but I think Saturn+remix are 30 fps too.

If the Saturn/Arcade versions run at 30fps and the 32X version runs at 20fps, it shouldn't have tighter controls.

AM2 has made a big deal about not compromising on 60fps for Virtua Fighter games ever since VF2. It was the excuse for not supporting online play in the PS3 version of VF5.

Dropping from 30 to 20fps in a game designed around 30fps should only affect the gameplay in a negative way, unless they re-balanced it so that it plays differently and it is actually a unique VF game.

AM2 has always talked about response time being priceless. Even if VF32X invisibly plays at 30fps behind the visuals, the player will still be relying on visuals which are out of sync with the gameplay.

Vludi
02-06-2017, 09:27 PM
Improving the gameplay mechanics such as controls/combo system work independently if the game has lower frame-rate or not, but I suppose the difference in frame-rate would act as a tradeoff anyway.
Anyway, I think we need more info about 32x port's framerate first.

Sik
02-06-2017, 10:32 PM
Well, I went recheck in Fusion with framestep and I stand corrected: Virtua Fighter 32X does indeed run at 30FPS. Go me x_x

gamevet
02-06-2017, 11:01 PM
Improving the gameplay mechanics such as controls/combo system work independently if the game has lower frame-rate or not, but I suppose the difference in frame-rate would act as a tradeoff anyway.
Anyway, I think we need more info about 32x port's framerate first.

The game cuts out half of the frames of animation. The jump heights are also reduced.

It was quite jarring to go from playing the Saturn version to playing the game on the 32X. The 32X does an admirable job of mimicking the gameplay of the arcade game, but there's no way I will ever think it's as good as the Saturn version, warts and all. It's like going from playing Ultimate MK3 on the Saturn and then playing MK2 on the SNES.

Vludi
02-06-2017, 11:25 PM
Reducing the jumps isn't necessarily bad, it was way too high in the original lol.

Black_Tiger
02-07-2017, 12:47 PM
Hearing about some of the changes makes the 32X version more interesting to me. I'm definitely going to compare all versions once I have time to play them seriously.

bultje112
02-07-2017, 02:41 PM
then your best of to play virtua fighter remix

Leynos
02-17-2018, 06:31 AM
Saturn has Bulk Slash. Whoever said that can fuck right off.

Eep386
03-01-2018, 01:05 AM
My nominations for 'excellent' games, that I've played and own: Mystaria, Shining the Holy Ark, Dragon Force (gotta love Working Design's hilarious translation!), Fighter's Megamix (loads of stupid fun!) and Panzer Dragoon Zwei.
I'd like to say that's a fair bit more than just two.

There's a slew of less 'excellent' titles that I thoroughly enjoyed too, but since we're talking games that would by themselves sell the system...

Epyx
03-01-2018, 05:48 AM
There are far more games I'd turn my Saturn on to play than my PS1!

zyrobs
03-03-2018, 11:30 AM
then your best of to play virtua fighter remix

VF Remix is missing the real time lightning.

Orchid87
05-03-2018, 04:12 PM
Why discuss VF when VF2 is superior in every way? Both Saturn ports of VF2 and Dead or Alive are excellent.

Jeckidy
05-03-2018, 11:44 PM
In all honesty, the Saturn probably has more games worth owning and playing than Dreamcast. I like both, but Dreamcast shouldn't win this contest just because it has prettier graphics. If any disc-based Sega console only has "two" excellent titles, it would likely be Sega CD for Sonic CD and Popful Mail :lol: Unless you add the two Lunar games (I personally am not big on that series, myself). Snatcher deserves mention, but that's only worth playing through once every decade at most, IMHO. Maybe Shining Force CD, too, and then--oh well, even Sega CD has its "Shining" moments (pun intended), I guess, but Saturn has way more than CD. :rofl:

Moirai
06-09-2018, 12:31 PM
The Saturn is awesome and has so many good games, but it is still a flop.

I donít think the Dreamcast sold any better than the Saturn on a worldwide scale

Nightwolf
06-09-2018, 01:11 PM
Recently bought finally a Saturn!! Sadly, the laser is not working (so going back to the seller as he will replace it) Dammit, I just want to play Virtual Hydlide! And I know, after that, all goes up as game quality is concerned for Saturn!!! :D (No kidding, for some reason, I really like VH, but probably because I really love Super Hydlide)

So many games now to discover.... (no, I dont think so only two!)

zyrobs
06-09-2018, 11:24 PM
Why discuss VF when VF2 is superior in every way? Both Saturn ports of VF2 and Dead or Alive are excellent.

VF2 had no dynamic lightning on Saturn either ;) Plus it had sound glitches. Don't take me the wrong way, I love the game, but there a few technical areas where it is lacking. Still plays excellent though.

bultje112
06-10-2018, 03:41 AM
I donít think the Dreamcast sold any better than the Saturn on a worldwide scale

that's why the dreamcast is a flop as well.

Moirai
06-30-2018, 03:57 AM
Games I adore:

Steep Slope Sliders
Daytona USA CCE
Hyper Duel, now in regular rotation
Nights
The house of the dead
Virtua cop 1&2
Burning Rangers, on the shelf and looks coool but rarely played
Die hard arcade
Panzer saga is okay I guess. Worth bootlegging.

bultje112
06-30-2018, 04:02 AM
steep slope riders has one of the best soundtracks I've ever heard and in general is a great game

Moirai
06-30-2018, 04:08 AM
Last Bronx
Dead Or Alive
Fighters Megamix

The trinity

EDIT:
new challenger arrives
How could I forget SAVAKI

Moirai
06-30-2018, 04:16 AM
Thunder storm/road blaster.. nice fmv game
Clockwork Knight 1&2 collection... jpn only
Gungriffon 1 & 2 but 2 has big language barrier ....

QUAKE
powerslave if only for the Iron Maiden reference
Duke 3D
Yawn itís late, point is Saturn has fucking MORE than 2


Hnnnnnnnnnng!

Jake Armitage
08-20-2018, 10:03 PM
In all honesty, the Saturn probably has more games worth owning and playing than Dreamcast. I like both, but Dreamcast shouldn't win this contest just because it has prettier graphics. If any disc-based Sega console only has "two" excellent titles, it would likely be Sega CD for Sonic CD and Popful Mail :lol: Unless you add the two Lunar games (I personally am not big on that series, myself). Snatcher deserves mention, but that's only worth playing through once every decade at most, IMHO. Maybe Shining Force CD, too, and then--oh well, even Sega CD has its "Shining" moments (pun intended), I guess, but Saturn has way more than CD. :rofl:

Shining Force CD is in the top tier if for nothing other than that awesome museum battle. ^___^

I would count the two Lunars has being top notch. There was also Dark Wizard (kind of a Shining Force/Master of Monsters (Genesis) hybrid except on steroids), The Secret of Monkey Island, Third World War (woefully underappreciated to the point of being unknown) and possibly Rise of the Dragon and Vay (depending on one's tastes).

And a pretty fair number of good (although not great ) titles.

Pretty impressive IMHO given the small US library compared to the Saturn and Dreamcast.

Moirai
08-21-2018, 12:17 AM
Marvel Super Heroes Vs. Street Fighter, an excellent gem, street fighter zero 3..

Last gladiators pinball

bultje112
08-21-2018, 04:43 AM
Shining Force CD is in the top tier if for nothing other than that awesome museum battle. ^___^

I would count the two Lunars has being top notch. There was also Dark Wizard (kind of a Shining Force/Master of Monsters (Genesis) hybrid except on steroids), The Secret of Monkey Island, Third World War (woefully underappreciated to the point of being unknown) and possibly Rise of the Dragon and Vay (depending on one's tastes).

And a pretty fair number of good (although not great ) titles.

Pretty impressive IMHO given the small US library compared to the Saturn and Dreamcast.

oh god yes. this game is so unknown and it's like a 9.5/10 game. doesn't get much better in political strategy, simulation games.

Eep386
08-22-2018, 01:37 AM
Mystaria: Realms of Lore.
Fighting Vipers.
Shining the Holy Ark.
Soviet Strike (also on other systems).

Those four ate up so much of my time on the Saturn.

gamevet
08-22-2018, 02:01 AM
Marvel Super Heroes Vs. Street Fighter, an excellent gem, street fighter zero 3..

Last gladiators pinball

Best version of Tempest 2000!

Team Andromeda
08-24-2018, 03:36 AM
oh god yes. this game is so unknown and it's like a 9.5/10 game. doesn't get much better in political strategy, simulation games.

Spot on, its one of the best made and deepest sims made in that era the game was and still is incredible.



Also I'm still amazed at how people think either the Jag or Saturn version of Tempest are good games. Found them to be super overrated myself

nv0bdizc
09-20-2018, 02:29 PM
Best version of Tempest 2000!

I tend to favour the Jaguar for two reasons:

1) It was the version which Minter wrote based around the capabilities of the Jaguar, such as particle effects, which heavily influence the design and aesthetics. They're present in the Saturn adaptation to a degree, but the artist's vision was influenced directly by his tooling.
2) Rotary controller support.

Both are better than the PS version with the shaded well though.