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Team Andromeda
03-23-2018, 06:31 AM
True, but then back in those days, most PC games came out on CD-ROM. They were very few PS2 games that the DC or Cube disc medium couldn't have done, more when one got over SONY hype load of tosh. They said the same with the BluRay and the 360 showed that despite the Gulf in disc medium the 360 handle pretty much any PS3 game. I remember Phil Harrison saying that GOD Of War 3 was only possible because of BluRay

[QUOTE]The PS2 has 1/3 more RAM than the Dreamcast(and its faster RAM)

Agreed, The DC didn't have enough RAM and have said in the past, a lot of developers found its memory slow. I would find hard to see how the DC could handle Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, but not so for GTA III. And I seen plenty of games appear on different systems with nothing like the RAM, how Dungeon Master was able to run on the old PC Eng CD-Rom was quite beyond me and the same goes for getting Quake II on the PS or Populous 3 again onthe PS.


The guy is trying to find anyway to avoid being wrong

The guy has a name and its called a debate. It was a mandate by MS that all games had to be able to run on a 360 with out an HD, but it broke the rule, just like it for EA with LIVE or with its 720p Mandate on the 360.

Team Andromeda
03-23-2018, 06:50 AM
Except that's not true either. By 2009 that mandate

It was 2007/8 that we got the new Jasper chipset to try and end the Three Rings of Death issues and a huge increase in the systems Flash Ram; It around that time, that MS started to lessen its restrictions on silly stuff like the size of XBLA games and how knows maybe thats why FF 11 came to the 360 ?. But Still MS had the mandate that all games had to run on 360 without an HD and it kept that mandate with the Slim Xbox 360 which only had 4 GIG.


When to play online you're required to get the expansion, it stops being optional DLC

Not at the start. So yes I was wrong about Football Manager (and the best part I own the game for the 360) like you are we wrong over PSU.


Those storage limits were ditched long before GTAV was a thing as is obvious from the games requiring a HDD as early as 2006

I made the point that MS was changing 'its limits', but it still had the mandate of all its games had to run on an XBox without the aid of the HD, no doubt a developer was also allowed to break how all games hat to support achievement, never mind how MS itself, broke the 720p mandate. It stuck to no HD mandate even with its top In-House games like Halo 3 which had issues if you used the HD on the 360 or the mess of where Crackdown online part had to use the HD, but the developer wasn't allowed too for the single player mode.
It was a mess and a silly mandate that like I said, MS looked to fix with dropping its silly limits of what size of Pen drives and storage one could use.


The PC can also handle better compression most likely
Pretty lame given so many PC didn't worry about console levels of compression and that's not to overlook how the whole GTA III came could fit on just 2 CD's hardly needing DVD Rom style of storage.


You've yet to provide any evidence of this mandate.

You asked for evidence, that's a laugh when I'm still waiting for yours over Martin Marietta/Lockheed making SEGAs Model 1 board.
It was a mandate, and it's quite clear it was given that nearly ever 360 games had to operate in that way, MS had another mandate of how all 360 games had to run in 720p and again that was broken as was the LIVE mandate on the OG XBox by EA


And I find it funny that Microsoft would make an exception for Sega to allow HDDs being required for their games
One game and where that game was one of the biggest selling games in the UK and the UK was a part of the world where 360 was a clear number one in sales. So when you want a product on your system you break rules, more so when this game was hardly going to set a president. Wasn't it true that SEGA gave Bleem DC development kits, you can break the rules when it suites and speaking of Football Manager that also came out on the PSP; So it shows what can be done even with lesser storage and no Hard Drive.

The PSP had its own silly mandates too, remember the CPU clock speed limit that all PSP developers had to follow by, wasn't that dropped for games like Vice Stories on the PSP for a little irony too

Leynos
03-23-2018, 07:32 AM
Why so many double and triple posts? Can't you edit?

Blades
03-23-2018, 10:31 AM
^Who cares.

gamevet
03-23-2018, 02:48 PM
There was a reason I had him on ignore. That idiot will respond to everything.

Leynos
03-23-2018, 07:45 PM
Yeah, I agree if it used standard DVD size the DC would not need an HDD really at all. What I meant really but didn't word it right.

Yharnamresident
03-24-2018, 02:21 AM
I would find hard to see how the DC could handle Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, but not so for GTA III.GTA III is no problem for the Dreamcast whatsoever. If you look at that "PS2 vs Dreamcast graphics" thread, you'll see I found out the game barely reaches 1 million polys per second.


Why so many double and triple posts? Can't you edit?In my view, I think double posts are fine when they are done at least an hour apart.


Yeah, I agree if it used standard DVD size the DC would not need an HDD really at all. What I meant really but didn't word it right.If the Dreamcast used like a clone DVD that also supported CDs, it would've been set.

Of course someone is probably gonna respond to this saying "they were able to port tons of PS2 games to the PSP and that has barely more storage than the Dreamcast", but I'm done debating with the guy. If Trekkies or someone else wants to take over debating then they can.

gamevet
03-24-2018, 02:48 AM
The PSP ran at a lower resolution than the PS2. It didn't require as much disc space because of that.

Team Andromeda
03-24-2018, 05:53 AM
GTA III is no problem for the Dreamcast whatsoever. If you look at that "PS2 vs Dreamcast graphics" thread, you'll see I found out the game barely reaches 1 million polys per second.

I think the point was more about storage, not GFX. There is no reason why the DC couldn't handle GTA III at all.

And MS did have mandates over 360 games being able to run without the HD. In Technical certification requirements for 360 games as it was for 720p, another mandate that was broken. MS did have mandates and I remember the Crackdown Team and Fable II team interview saying there were having to use adv streaming routines to get around the issue.

Team Andromeda
03-24-2018, 05:56 AM
There was a reason I had him on ignore. That idiot will respond to everything.

Only for you to no use it and there for being an idiot by definition.

BonusKun
03-24-2018, 09:11 AM
Only for you to no use it and there for being an idiot by definition.

You need to stop fighting with people. Now.

Mega Drive Bowlsey
03-24-2018, 02:59 PM
Team Andromeda reminds me of the Energizer bunny. :D

gamevet
03-24-2018, 03:25 PM
Only for you to no use it and there for being an idiot by definition.

The very fact that you couldn't even respond with a proper sentence confirms what I'd said.

Team Andromeda
03-26-2018, 06:50 AM
The very fact that you couldn't even respond with a proper sentence confirms what I'd said.

One who doesn't follow their own advice could be classed as an idiot.

BonusKun
03-26-2018, 12:38 PM
One who doesn't follow their own advice could be classed as an idiot.

Do not post anymore in this thread. I've gotten way too many complaints from multiple people about you in this thread. If you make one more single idiotic post, you're going to get timed out again by me.

IrishNinja
03-26-2018, 07:29 PM
hey guys what'd i miss http://content.invisioncic.com/i278993/emoticons/default_bailout.gif

gamevet
03-27-2018, 11:07 AM
TA being TA.

Moirai
07-30-2018, 11:13 AM
Pssst...

Shenmue was a waste of money.

Black_Tiger
07-30-2018, 12:15 PM
Pssst...

Shenmue was a waste of money.

Only if you bought it hoping for much more than a tech demo and paid full price.

Yharnamresident
07-30-2018, 07:21 PM
I think he means as a financial investment by Sega.

Leynos
07-31-2018, 06:06 AM
Shenmue is awesome.

Team Andromeda
07-31-2018, 08:47 AM
I think he means as a financial investment by Sega.

Think like that, the Dreamcast was the biggest waste of money and not only cost SEGA the Hardware dream but also its shareholders and lead bloody Sammy taking them over :(

Leynos
07-31-2018, 06:04 PM
DC was not a waste of money. DC was a great machine. 32X was a waste. Saturn (as much as I love it) is the one that broke them financially and didn't BonusKun tell you to not post in this topic? I'm not going to report it but lol no DC was worth every penny. SEGA because of Saturn and 32X and Nomad wasn't going to last much longer anyway.

Team Andromeda
07-31-2018, 07:34 PM
The DC saddle SEGA with near a billion dollars of debt. Unlike with either the 32X, Saturn SEGA not only dropped the system early but didn't develop a successor and pulled out of the console hardware business altogther, after every year of the DC being on sale SEGA were reporting its biggest losses in its history of over 200 millon dollars a year, which in the end not only cost SEGA the console dream, but lead to the SAMMY takeover which SEGA didnt want and tried so hard to stop

So if people think Shenmue was a waste of money, since it cost so much and made so little back, that's nothing to the DC console. Me I love both, but that's not looking at the bottom line or what the return was for shareholders .

Yharnamresident
07-31-2018, 07:59 PM
DC was not a waste of money. DC was a great machine. 32X was a waste. Saturn (as much as I love it) is the one that broke them financially and didn't BonusKun tell you to not post in this topic? I'm not going to report it but lol no DC was worth every penny. SEGA because of Saturn and 32X and Nomad wasn't going to last much longer anyway.I agree. Let me sum it up:

profitless mess after profitless mess.



So if people think Shenmue was a waste of money, since it cost so much and made so little back, that's nothing to the DC console. Me I love both, but that's not looking at the bottom line or what the return was for shareholders .
I've always thought Shenmue was a balls-deep effort to gain Dreamcast market share after the PS2 was taking the spotlight.

Team Andromeda
08-01-2018, 04:01 AM
I've always thought Shenmue was a balls-deep effort to gain Dreamcast market share after the PS2 was taking the spotlight.

That be clever since the Shenmue project started in 1994. I think people do one of 2 things with regards to Shenmue 1) Over play its budget and 2)Look over its sales... Sure Shenmue cost 70 million dollars but that was for 2 games on developed on 2 systems (Saturn and DC) To put in to some sort of contrast FF7 cost over 44 million dollars for one game on a 32bit system (PS). Also people forget the 1st game sold over a million copies, thats more than any 'single' Yakuza game ever managed. It was the sequel that sold like rubbish, but I also blame SEGA for that, with dropping the USA version for the DC and then the OG XBox version looking no better than a DC game.


There were a lot more wastes of money than Shenmue , Saturn or even the 32X with-in SEGA imo

axel
08-01-2018, 06:10 PM
That be clever since the Shenmue project started in 1994. I think people do one of 2 things with regards to Shenmue 1) Over play its budget and 2)Look over its sales... Sure Shenmue cost 70 million dollars but that was for 2 games on developed on 2 systems (Saturn and DC) To put in to some sort of contrast FF7 cost over 44 million dollars for one game on a 32bit system (PS). Also people forget the 1st game sold over a million copies, thats more than any 'single' Yakuza game ever managed. It was the sequel that sold like rubbish, but I also blame SEGA for that, with dropping the USA version for the DC and then the OG XBox version looking no better than a DC game.


There were a lot more wastes of money than Shenmue , Saturn or even the 32X with-in SEGA imo

One game. Unreleased titles don't count. $70 million for a game that sold 1 million, vs. FF7, which cost less and sold 11 million copies. Not even remotely comparable.

Leynos
08-01-2018, 10:00 PM
It did not cost 70 million. Yu has gone on record saying that's BS. It was somewhere around $47 million. Also, Shenmue 1-2 were not developed as 2 different games but as one game. They broke up the game when they had a deadline and they just last minute broke the game up in 2 different parts.

Team Andromeda
08-02-2018, 06:53 AM
One game. Unreleased titles don't count. $70 million for a game that sold 1 million, vs. FF7, which cost less and sold 11 million copies. Not even remotely comparable.

Unreleased titles still take money and staff to make released or not and when one is making a project no one really knows if it's going to sell millions or not sell great (thats a rather silly bit of point scoring) . I'm simply saying that Shenmue Budget was not the biggest and that a great many games also had huge massive budgets.
I mean I found it amazing that Halo 3 and Halo 2 cost much to make never mind Call Of Duty 5 given they were pretty standard (but well made) FPS, amazing that FF 7 cost over 44 million dollars for a bog standard JPRG with no voice acting or and no real music orchestra score.

Team Andromeda
08-02-2018, 07:03 AM
It did not cost 70 million. Yu has gone on record saying that's BS. It was somewhere around $47 million. Also, Shenmue 1-2 were not developed as 2 different games but as one game. They broke up the game when they had a deadline and they just last minute broke the game up in 2 different parts.


Sorry its not Bull at all. It was Yu desperate to make Shenmue 3 and get some funding to it and so just talked the actual buget to develop the DC games (minus the PR and Saturn spends) and we all know Shenmue was developed has 16 chapters and that it would take until Shenmue V to finish the Saga.

From the man himself



https://youtu.be/mmXVco0Bkyk?t=5m11s

And here's SEGA Japan producer Kat's Sato also confirming Shenmue's Budget

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5136/5493890277_54a5c0a27a_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/9ntCba)IMG_0002 (https://flic.kr/p/9ntCba) by Mega Drive (https://www.flickr.com/photos/27368881@N00/), on Flickr


I don't talk bullsh9t .

Leynos
08-02-2018, 08:42 AM
lol a magazine again huh?

it became the most expensive game ever developed at the time, reported to have cost US$70 million; in 2011, Suzuki said the figure was closer to $47 million including marketing.[5] Development also covered some of Shenmue II (2001) and possibly groundwork for future Shenmue games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenmue


Also been reported multiple times on major Shenmue fan sites.

Team Andromeda
08-02-2018, 09:26 AM
lol a magazine again huh?

it became the most expensive game ever developed at the time, reported to have cost US$70 million; in 2011, Suzuki said the figure was closer to $47 million including marketing.[5] Development also covered some of Shenmue II (2001) and possibly groundwork for future Shenmue games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenmue


Wiki lol . I remember that interview with 1up.com. Yu Suzuki was desperate to downplay the costs because he wanted so much to make the sequel and getting funding for it . SEGA Japan spent over 20 million dollars on Shenmue PR alone, the project cost them over 70 million but that was not too bad for 2 top quality RPG's (developed on 2 totally different systems) and an RPG that looked to do stuff no other console RPG had done before. Given the spends on some other games that do little new, some sort of perspective needs to be put on Shenmue. Even this day so little games have dynamic weather, Shenmue was doing all that (and the real correct weather patterns for each day of the games time line of 86) in 1999

Shenmue budget wasn't that huge 'when' you compare it to some other games and Shenmue didn't kill SEGA like some make out. The Shenmue budget was already paid for in the 200 million dollars SEGA had set aside for software development after Shenmue shipped in 1999 didn't kill AM#2 or even the Dreamcast SEGA kept on going and selling the system. What killed SEGA was the huge hit it was talking for every DC unit sold. The DC hardware left SEGA with a near a billion dollars in debt and where SEGA had to stop and kill production straight away. So much debt which in the end cost SEGA its main backers and led to the Sammy Hostile Takeover. In many ways, SEGA would have been better off not making the DC and going software only, but it wouldn't have great for the SEGA fans or the SEGA staff that loved working on their own Hardware.

Leynos
08-02-2018, 02:58 PM
Oh so he is lying. You sure like to troll don't you.

Team Andromeda
08-02-2018, 04:44 PM
Oh so he is lying. You sure like to troll don't you.

Did you even wach the interview. He was quite clear and even asked twice how much had been spent on Shenmue. 70 million USA dollars that was in 2000 interview when Yu was directing and producing the series, not in a interview decades latter, when Yu was looking for backers to make a Shenmue III.

If that wasn't enough, I'll also produced a interview with SOJ and SOE producer Kats Sato who also confirmed the cost. So how does make me a troll and I guess that makes both Suzuki-san and Kats Sato lairs then *rolls eye's *.

Also I'll never call Yu 'GOD' Suzuki a lair, I'm simply said he was down playing the real cost, because even wanted so desperately to make the other 3 games to finish the Saga.

I love Yu and think he's was screwed by SOJ and was taken full advantage of by Sony who used him in their shocking E3 conference but wouldn’t stump up the cash, much less publish Shenmue 3.

Leynos
08-02-2018, 05:00 PM
2011 he was looking for Kickstarted backers? lol ok. Dude stop lol.

Team Andromeda
08-02-2018, 07:08 PM
Try he was setting up is own Corp, making Shenmue spin off games for the mobile and looking to make a real sequel to Shenmue. So was looking for backers from Publishers and of course would look to down play it costs when looking from investment to start up his company I really doubt Yu is happy with needing Kick starter funding , but it was the only way. Yu was use to huge budgets and Shenmue was a series made with perfection in mind, sadly Shenmue III is going to let a lot of people down, given it’s done on the cheap.

Mega Drive Bowlsey
08-24-2018, 08:24 AM
Try he was setting up is own Corp, making Shenmue spin off games for the mobile and looking to make a real sequel to Shenmue. So was looking for backers from Publishers and of course would look to down play it costs when looking from investment to start up his company I really doubt Yu is happy with needing Kick starter funding , but it was the only way. Yu was use to huge budgets and Shenmue was a series made with perfection in mind, sadly Shenmue III is going to let a lot of people down, given it’s done on the cheap.

It won't disappoint me even if it looks identical to the first two Shenmue games. They blew me away back when they were first released and I still think they look amazing. It's all about the story and the gameplay for me, not the graphics.

Team Andromeda
08-24-2018, 08:52 AM
It won't disappoint me even if it looks identical to the first two Shenmue games. They blew me away back when they were first released and I still think they look amazing. It's all about the story and the gameplay for me, not the graphics.

The story in Shenmue is basic and standard Kung Fu stuff (Yakuza series as a much better story and script) .It was the world, that made Shenmue imo and how close AM#2 tried to model a living breathing world. You watch people be very disappointed with Shenmue III because they are expecting a Shenmue style epic, only this time its done on a tiny budget, a handful of staff and Shenmue III won't even finish the story either that will take Shenmue V. SEGA should be funding and makeing Shenmue and helping the man that made SEGA what it was in the 80's and 90's. Shenmue III will be good, but Yu is having to do Shenmue on the cheap and that was one thing the series was ever meant to be...

Mega Drive Bowlsey
08-24-2018, 11:26 AM
The story in Shenmue is basic and standard Kung Fu stuff (Yakuza series as a much better story and scribt) .It was the world that made Shenmue imo and how close AM#2 tried to model a living breathing world. You watch people be very disappointed with Shenmue III because they are expecting a Shenmue style epic, only this time its done on a tiny budget and a handful of staff and Shenmue III won't even finish the story either that will take Shenmue III. SEGA should be funding and makeing Shenmue and helping the man that made SEGA what it was in the 80's and 90's. Shenmue III will be good, but Yu is having to do Shenmue on the cheap and that was one thing the series was ever meant to be...

Sega of today is a very, very different company from the Sega of the 80's and 90's. I wouldn't be surprised if 95-99% of the staff from those days have since left. There probably isn't anybody left who would appreciate Yu Suzuki's past work and legacy, let alone write him a blank cheque to go and make whatever he wants.

Team Andromeda
08-24-2018, 12:13 PM
Sega of today is a very, very different company from the Sega of the 80's and 90's. I wouldn't be surprised if 95-99% of the staff from those days have since left. There probably isn't anybody left who would appreciate Yu Suzuki's past work and legacy, let alone write him a blank cheque to go and make whatever he wants.

Yeah and thats most prob, why even SEGA own fans don't care about them anymore and look to others .. Sadly

BonusKun
08-25-2018, 11:54 AM
Think like that, the Dreamcast was the biggest waste of money and not only cost SEGA the Hardware dream but also its shareholders and lead bloody Sammy taking them over :(

If I'd have to say anything, The 32X was a huge waste compared to the Dreamcast.

Mega Drive Bowlsey
08-28-2018, 07:19 PM
If I'd have to say anything, The 32X was a huge waste compared to the Dreamcast.

Absolutely. The Dreamcast was a great console which is much loved to this day and had serious potential at the time. The 32X on the other hand wasn't a console, isn't loved to this day and had zero potential from day one.

Leynos
09-12-2018, 02:21 PM
Let's be honest. 32X,Pico,WonderMega,Nomad,Game Gear,SCD and anything not their main hardware was a waste of money that sank them.

BonusKun
09-12-2018, 05:30 PM
Let's be honest. 32X,Pico,WonderMega,Nomad,Game Gear,SCD and anything not their main hardware was a waste of money that sank them.

Agree on everything here except the Nomad which I loved and the Game Gear.

cleeg
09-12-2018, 05:41 PM
Absolutely. The Dreamcast was a great console which is much loved to this day and had serious potential at the time. The 32X on the other hand wasn't a console, isn't loved to this day and had zero potential from day one.

Not sure about zero potential... I like it for the novelty but feel that some great titles could have been released. Virtua Fighter alone proves this, though only speaking technically. I also would have loved an Ecco sequel. Unloved and non console though, bang on!

Yohko16
09-12-2018, 06:18 PM
@SegataS: I vastly disagree.

For start the Game Gear was the best-selling color handheld of its time.

Then the Sega CD was a good move and the best-selling CD add-on of its time.

The Nomad was a good move too but whose sales were hampered by a rather late and not worldwide release.

And about the Wondermega's, they were handled both by Sega and Victor and in any cases they weren't meant for mass sales since they were expensive all-in-one deluxe systems.

The Pico though, no idea how this one fared but a console dedicated to the youngest audience? Why not!


So overall, it's the 32X which was the sole unnecessary Sega system. Then there are things like the SG-1000 II, not sure if it was useful but not sure either if it cost much doing and handling it...


And anyway a few bad hardware moves is one thing, but the main problem remains the bad management from the Saturn and onwards. The overcomplicated and expensive Saturn hardware, the lack of a "true" Sonic Saturn game, the rivalry between Sega of Japan and Sega of America or the issues with third party dev during the Saturn and Dreamcast days...

Leynos
09-12-2018, 06:21 PM
Agree on everything here except the Nomad which I loved and the Game Gear.

I do as well but financially they just were a waste. I am glad Nomad existed because SEGA fans can shove it in the face of Sony and Nintendo fans that SEGA had the idea of a handheld that connected to the TV as a console first.

Leynos
09-12-2018, 06:23 PM
@SegataS: I vastly disagree.

For start the Game Gear was the best-selling color handheld of its time.

Then the Sega CD was a good move and the best-selling CD add-on of its time.

The Nomad was a good move too but whose sales were hampered by a rather late and not worldwide release.

And about the Wondermega's, they were handled both by Sega and Victor and in any cases they weren't meant for mass sales since they were expensive all-in-one deluxe systems.

The Pico though, no idea how this one fared but a console dedicated to the youngest audience? Why not!


So overall, it's the 32X which was the sole unnecessary Sega system. Then there are things like the SG-1000 II, not sure if it was useful but not sure either if it cost much doing and handling it...


And anyway a few bad hardware moves is one thing, but the main problem remains the bad management from the Saturn and onwards. The overcomplicated and expensive Saturn hardware, the lack of a "true" Sonic Saturn game, the rivalry between Sega of Japan and Sega of America or the issues with third party dev during the Saturn and Dreamcast days...

Best selling of a niche market that sold like shit anyway isn't saying much.

bultje112
09-12-2018, 06:48 PM
Let's be honest. 32X,Pico,WonderMega,Nomad,Game Gear,SCD and anything not their main hardware was a waste of money that sank them.

I doubt the game gear cost them a lot of money, if any at all. system was quite succesfull.

Leynos
09-12-2018, 07:11 PM
11 million isn't horrible but Game Boy sold 118 million. I dunno Sega Master System hardware in a portable in 1991 that ate 6 AA batteries in about 2 hours with a backlit LCD and huge seemed like it consumed a lot of power plus costing $150 which was far more than the Game Boy. For that time, may not be so different than when PSP or PSvita launched as impressive for handheld tech. Gameboy could have been sold for less likely but Yamauchi was greedy.

SEGA never attempted a truly dedicated handheld ever again(Nomad wasn't a true handheld and was like 32X,SCD just to squeeze another drop of life into Genesis). After that, they put their games on Neo Geo Pocket and even allowed it to hook up to the Dreamcast like Game Boy Advance would later on Gamecube.

Yohko16
09-12-2018, 07:41 PM
@SegataS: handhelds, niche? The Game Boy was highly successful and so were the Game & Watch or other things prior to it so engaging such market was safe and Sega did this in a pretty good way, reusing the Master System hardware with a few tweaks and ended with the best-selling color handheld of its time which more likely meant profits.

And add-ons at the time weren't niche either, they were rather common things, the Famicom or PC Engine already had some and Sega already planned add-ons during the Mega Drive hardware development and so they did the Power Base Converter or the Mega-CD and the latter was the best-selling CD add-on of its time and with all its variants, it probably meant profits too (though it could have been more successful had Sega focused as much on "classic games" (i.e. Sonic CD, Lunar, Soul Star...) than they did on FMV games whose craze apparently faded out quite quickly).


edit: also what about editing instead of double-posting?

edit2:
"Join Date Feb 2018
Posts 1,730"
lol. I hope that at least it's the only forum that your frequent! ^^'

Leynos
09-12-2018, 07:52 PM
No one cares about double posting on this forum. If they did TA would have been warned or banned for it long ago. No, you said color handhelds and color handhelds in the 90s were niche. The proof is in the sales. None of them sold very well. CD add on systems also niche. Like VR of today is niche. PSvr sold 3 million system in 2 years which is the best selling VR set but that's not saying much in a market that is small to begin with.

Yohko16
09-12-2018, 08:17 PM
@SegataS: handhelds are handhelds and CD systems were taking off so this were all legit moves.

And it's not because a lower-end hardware sold more, the Game Boy, that nothing else could be attempted. It's the same for everything: cars, hi-fi, food... lower-end stuff will often sold more, I would say sadly in some cases, but this doesn't mean that other brands shouldn't attempt different/better products and if they sell enough then it's all good regardless of the amount of competiting cheaper stuff sold.

And bar some exceptions, double-posts are crap and affect the forum lisibility, but maybe that's just me...

Leynos
09-12-2018, 09:20 PM
CD Add-ons didn't do well because it was an expensive add-on that added little to nothing with 95% of the game being shit FMV games. SCD held Genesis back and look SNES outsold it and didn't need a CD ad on. For the SNES canceling the add-on was best for that system. The only handheld that sold well was black and white and had a really long lasting battery and inexpensive. CD consoles did well because it wasn't an add-on. They didn't focus on shit FMV games (unless it's CDi/3D0) and was full 3D. I don't know what lisibility is but get over it. Are you trying to say legibility? If you are, lol at the irony.

sull56ivan2010
09-12-2018, 10:35 PM
I know it's Segata and all, but I'm pretty sure 95 percent of the Sega CD and Turbo CD libraries weren't FMV games. Game Boy did not sell 118 million. It's including both the original and the Color. Take out 50 million from it and there you go with original Game Boy, which probably half of its sales came during the Pokemon craze. (I'm just guessing) Cancelling the SNES add-on exposed Nintendo a lot more than it helped.

Leynos
09-13-2018, 12:36 AM
I know it's Segata and all,

Qué?

Yohko16
09-13-2018, 06:30 AM
I know it's Segata and all, but I'm pretty sure 95 percent of the Sega CD and Turbo CD libraries weren't FMV games. Game Boy did not sell 118 million. It's including both the original and the Color. Take out 50 million from it and there you go with original Game Boy

This ^^


which probably half of its sales came during the Pokemon craze. (I'm just guessing)

And more likely this too...


Cancelling the SNES add-on exposed Nintendo a lot more than it helped.

And while I'm not sure here but having a CD add-on wasn't a bad thing anyway but glad that Nintendo didn't work with Sony so the latter, as a rival just as greedy, could kick Nintendo's ass later on and did it rightfully so!

Team Andromeda
09-13-2018, 11:45 AM
No one cares about double posting on this forum. If they did TA would have been warned or banned for it long ago. No, you said color handhelds and color handhelds in the 90s were niche. The proof is in the sales. None of them sold very well. CD add on systems also niche. Like VR of today is niche. PSvr sold 3 million system in 2 years which is the best selling VR set but that's not saying much in a market that is small to begin with.

No TA just gets reproted by you and warned for going off topic, But somehow its quite ok for you to go off topic. What has Handhelds like the Gameboy, much less a Wondermega or PS4 VR got to with a DVD Dreamcast or Master system thread ?

Leynos
09-13-2018, 04:18 PM
No TA just gets reproted by you and warned for going off topic, But somehow its quite ok for you to go off topic. What has Handhelds like the Gameboy, much less a Wondermega or PS4 VR got to with a DVD Dreamcast or Master system thread ?

All you do is go off topic and shitpost and troll the same tripe we have all heard a thousand times before from you. Not to mention you don't just DP but this is not an uncommon site. I see that a lot making the ignore feature almost pointless with you. Lastly, hard to take a lot of your stuff serious when you as a native English speaker can't spell half your words correctly when every browser has spellcheck. You don't have to be perfect but at least legible enough you don't seem like a drunk person.

https://i.imgur.com/rnnpNhJ.jpg

Leynos
09-13-2018, 04:22 PM
This ^^



And more likely this too...



And while I'm not sure here but having a CD add-on wasn't a bad thing anyway but glad that Nintendo didn't work with Sony so the latter, as a rival just as greedy, could kick Nintendo's ass later on and did it rightfully so!
Letting Sony go didn't hurt Nintendo,Remember SEGA let Sony go as well. Having N64 be cartridge based did. Final Fantasy VII for example was to be an N64 game at first. Cartridge killed that. Sony was put in a prime position less by what they did right and by what SEGA and Nintendo did wrong. Not that Sony didn't do some good things but had Saturn been easy to program for and N64 used CD-Rom. Sony at worst would have been CDi and possibly at best Xbox.

Yohko16
09-13-2018, 04:59 PM
@SegataS: Sony did many things right even though some of said things weren't fair.

They had a great hardware. Efficient, versatile and affordable. The PlayStation was basically the Mega Drive of its time.

They also gathered many important third party developers.

And it was like a breath of fresh air in a market saturated with okayish systems (CD32, Jaguar, 3DO...) and with Sega struggling with their Sega of Japan/Sega of America-Saturn/32X duality.

Their success was well deserved.

Apparently not as much when it comes to the PS2.


btw regarding the discussion about the handhelds, I was reading some sales figures lately and apparently the Game Boy sold "only" 16 million units by 1995. It was still the best-selling handheld of its time but not as much as what it seems to be when using overall Game Boy sales figures like you did since said figures include all Game Boy variants as well as the Game Boy Color which is actually a next gen system. So the Game Gear was more likely quite successful within its generation and like we said a good and legit move from Sega.

The Nomad was good too but should have been released earlier and worldwide.

But it's clear that overall Sega never cared much about handhelds. Their main focus has always been arcade boards and home consoles.

Blades
09-14-2018, 12:45 AM
All you do is go off topic and shitpost and troll the same tripe we have all heard a thousand times before from you. Not to mention you don't just DP but this is not an uncommon site. I see that a lot making the ignore feature almost pointless with you. Lastly, hard to take a lot of your stuff serious when you as a native English speaker can't spell half your words correctly when every browser has spellcheck. You don't have to be perfect but at least legible enough you don't seem like a drunk person.

I don't think you understand how the ignore feature works.

Leynos
09-14-2018, 03:47 AM
I don't think you understand how the ignore feature works.
I do but no self-control at times. I like forums that the ignore feature truly makes that person vanish. Like they legit don't exist. This board is using the pretty old software. Laura Branigan said it best. You take my self control. In the night.

Team Andromeda
09-14-2018, 05:19 AM
All you do is go off topic and shitpost

Try what has SONY VR and Gameboy got to with a DVD Dreamcast or Master System?. I love the irony and rank hypocrisy, of you clearly going off topic and having no issues with it.

bultje112
09-14-2018, 10:01 AM
CD Add-ons didn't do well because it was an expensive add-on that added little to nothing with 95% of the game being shit FMV games. SCD held Genesis back and look SNES outsold it and didn't need a CD ad on. For the SNES canceling the add-on was best for that system. The only handheld that sold well was black and white and had a really long lasting battery and inexpensive. CD consoles did well because it wasn't an add-on. They didn't focus on shit FMV games (unless it's CDi/3D0) and was full 3D. I don't know what lisibility is but get over it. Are you trying to say legibility? If you are, lol at the irony.

the snes cd add on was terrible. it couldn't even play fmv's due to it's slow processor. the sega cd was amazing though and did a lot more than just add cd storage. I own about 50 sega cd games of which maybe 5 are fmv games and they are good as well like road avenger. but I doubt you even own a sega cd.

Leynos
09-14-2018, 11:27 AM
Except at the US Senate hearings, Night Trap was being played on Nintendo's CD add-on hardware with better resolution than the SEGA CD. Nintendo tried to pass it off as SEGA's and it worked.

sull56ivan2010
09-15-2018, 09:06 AM
Except at the US Senate hearings, Night Trap was being played on Nintendo's CD add-on hardware with better resolution than the SEGA CD. Nintendo tried to pass it off as SEGA's and it worked.

Can you even back that claim up?

Blades
09-15-2018, 10:44 AM
I do but no self-control at times.

Then get some.

Leynos
09-15-2018, 11:42 AM
Then get some.

Sold out.

StuOhQ
01-06-2019, 04:45 PM
The Dreamcast could have done kids homework,transformed into a break dancing robot, granted wishes or printed money and it wouldn't have mattered. Everyone was hot on the DC until the specter and eventual release of PS2. At that point everyone just dropped their Dreamcasts on the floor wondering over like Zombies to line up and buy PS2s

Even I bought that hype. I ignored my gut instinct and passed on the Dreamcast because of a handful of (probably sponsored) articles in gaming mags talking about how the PS2's graphics would obliterate the Dreamcast. As it was, I ended up passing on the PS2 as the GCN was on the horizon and I'm a slave to Nintendo IPs.

Thenewguy
07-15-2019, 11:19 AM
FTFY, I don't ever recall disputing that the Spectrum outsold the C64/CPC464/6128/BBC Micro and every other 8 bit computer under the sun. Go read my previous posts again since I was disputing your distorted view that it had same kind of dominance in the UK as NES did in the US.
Still waiting for you to prove that the Spectrum had a 94% share of the UK market like you seem to think.:bs::fail: :bull:
To be fair, I think if we limited this to the 48k models of Spectrum then it would be accurate to say it dominated, not to the level of 94% obviously, but perhaps as much as 80%+ of the market during specific times, most C64 sales in Britain happened post 1985 IIRC and Amstrad didn't exist until mid 1984'

SegaAMD
08-11-2020, 05:20 PM
sorry up the topic, but do you know if someone from SEGA went public afterwards, explaining why in fact the console did not have dvd as a media, any interviews? thank you

Leynos
08-11-2020, 05:29 PM
sorry up the topic, but do you know if someone from SEGA went public afterwards, explaining why in fact the console did not have dvd as a media, any interviews? thank you

I don't have it in front of me but I recall that Stolar said they had a choice. Focus on movie playback or online. They bet on online gaming. Might have been a financial choice really. DVD royalties might be more expensive at the time and drives be more expensive than using their own GDRom.

Psy
08-11-2020, 07:34 PM
sorry up the topic, but do you know if someone from SEGA went public afterwards, explaining why in fact the console did not have dvd as a media, any interviews? thank you
Probably because when the Dreamcast's specs where locked the DVD had only just launched in Japan. Sega at that point was not going to go back and quickly change over just a year to launch especially when the first Panasonic DVD players that came out were as expensive as the 3DO at launch and an unproven format.

Leynos
08-11-2020, 07:57 PM
Takes this for what you will.

http://www.thedreamcastjunkyard.co.uk/2018/03/an-interview-with-bernie-stolar.html
https://i.imgur.com/uEvnEPy.jpg

SegaAMD
08-11-2020, 11:42 PM
Takes this for what you will.



I ask because I no longer remember where I read that the real obstacle to using DVD was that DVD made games themselves more expensive, requiring beautiful FMV, games would be complex to make and that was why they did not use the DVDs as spending on games would be prohibitive

thank you for the link

Psy
08-11-2020, 11:59 PM
I ask because I no longer remember where I read that the real obstacle to using DVD was that DVD made games themselves more expensive, requiring beautiful FMV, games would be complex to make and that was why they did not use the DVDs as spending on games would be prohibitive

thank you for the link
It would have made the hardware more expensive, Sony had the advantage with the PS2 as Sony was part of the DVD consortium and had invested invested in the success of the DVD format where Sony also wanted to use the PS2 kill the VHS and LaserDisc format. Sega would have had to pay a licence to the DVD consortium along with meet their standards for MPEG video playback, it is why Nintendo didn't bother with DVD playback with the Gamecube.

SegaAMD
08-12-2020, 12:12 AM
It would have made the hardware more expensive, Sony had the advantage with the PS2 as Sony was part of the DVD consortium and had invested invested in the success of the DVD format where Sony also wanted to use the PS2 kill the VHS and LaserDisc format. Sega would have had to pay a licence to the DVD consortium along with meet their standards for MPEG video playback, it is why Nintendo didn't bother with DVD playback with the Gamecube.


yes, there are two situations involving the dvd one was to use the dvd media the other was to reproduce films, the most expensive was licence to reproduce movies, however it seems that what prevented Sega from producing a proprietary media from 3,5GB to 5GB was that the games would need to have more advanced scopes, it would be as if SEGA needed to make a shenmue for each game, so they chose to use GD so that the games themselves were simpler. Nevertheless the real advantage was in reproducing the movies, SEGA would not achieve this, not in 1998

axel
08-12-2020, 01:28 AM
I don't have it in front of me but I recall that Stolar said they had a choice. Focus on movie playback or online. They bet on online gaming. Might have been a financial choice really. DVD royalties might be more expensive at the time and drives be more expensive than using their own GDRom.

At the time that was probably a reasonable decision. FMV had fizzled out on CD-ROM based hardware but online gaming looked like the next big thing. Instead it was just the opposite, I knew people who barely played videogames who bought a PS2 for the DVD player.

Leynos
08-12-2020, 01:37 AM
DVD was the short term right answer. SEGA bet on the right long term answer but they needed something out of the gate and that would have been DVD.

Team Andromeda
08-12-2020, 07:36 AM
I ask because I no longer remember where I read that the real obstacle to using DVD was that DVD made games themselves more expensive, requiring beautiful FMV, games would be complex to make and that was why they did not use the DVDs as spending on games would be prohibitive


It was the cost of a DVD that was the issue for SEGA they just couldn't afford to take a hit on the DC spec's and also then also massive hit on the price of a DVD drive inside the system.
Quite a few of SEGA's GD-Rom efforts cost a fortune to produce, same went for PC CD-Rom games. Long after the PS2, most PC Games still used CD-Rom as the cost of a basic DVD Drive (even for a PC) was expensive. So one could see why SEGA had issues over making a DVD drive standard inside the DC. Just because one offers more storage doesn't mean all games cost more to produce. I highly doubt there was a massive budgetary difference between the cost of making a 360 game on DVD to that of making a PS3 game on BluRay.


Speaking of the PC. It's a shame SEGA plans for using the SOC DC hardware inside PC's (not just set-top boxes) never came off.

SegaAMD
08-12-2020, 08:42 AM
I highly doubt there was a massive budgetary difference between the cost of making a 360 game on DVD to that of making a PS3 game on BluRay.

.


as I said above, I read somewhere but I didn’t keep the source, the DVD wasn’t prohibitive, Sega could have put a DVD drive or even invented a higher capacity GD-ROM, but that would bring two problems, the first is run movies, it would be like the Wii U that has a media as Blu ray but that doesn’t play movies. so Sega realized that it wouldn’t be worth having a DVD or a bigger gd-rom, that would bring an increase in hardware cost but the worst thing would be an increase in the cost of games.
it's the same cartridge and the cd era, the magazines said that the cd made it cheaper, yes, that's half true, when a game uses the cd with fmv, with better audio, with complex assets, the cost of producing the game get bigger, I believe that the main ps3 games that used blu ray well as MGS4 were more expensive than the average of equivalent games on DVD-DL xbox 360

Team Andromeda
08-12-2020, 10:47 AM
as I said above, I read somewhere but I didn’t keep the source, the DVD wasn’t prohibitive, Sega could have put a DVD drive or even invented a higher capacity GD-ROM, but that would bring two problems, the first is run movies, it would be like the Wii U that has a media as Blu ray but that doesn’t play movies. so Sega realized that it wouldn’t be worth having a DVD or a bigger gd-rom, that would bring an increase in hardware cost but the worst thing would be an increase in the cost of games.
it's the same cartridge and the cd era, the magazines said that the cd made it cheaper, yes, that's half true, when a game uses the cd with fmv, with better audio, with complex assets, the cost of producing the game get bigger, I believe that the main ps3 games that used blu ray well as MGS4 were more expensive than the average of equivalent games on DVD-DL xbox 360


Adding advanced audio and graphical capability is what really drive us the costs of games development. Halo 3 cost $60 million, Halo 4 even more and there were just DVD games

SegaDreamcast
08-21-2020, 05:15 AM
Takes this for what you will.

http://www.thedreamcastjunkyard.co.uk/2018/03/an-interview-with-bernie-stolar.html
https://i.imgur.com/uEvnEPy.jpg

Bernie Stolar's thought process was truly ahead of its time. All those ideas became winners either actively during or barely after the Dreamcast's generation.