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bultje112
02-16-2018, 05:02 AM
Just wanted to share this fantastic article/interview:

https://www.theringer.com/2018/1/29/16940902/1998-video-games-panzer-dragoon-saga-missing-masterpiece

cleeg
02-16-2018, 07:38 AM
Nice share there, good read! I especially agreed with the point that it's an RPG for those of us, myself included, who are not RPG fans.

Kamahl
02-16-2018, 04:13 PM
There really is nothing else like the game, by far the greatest and most impressive thing to come out of the Saturn..

A team with no experience in RPGs, working a console with extremely difficult hardware and very little support, somehow produced one of the most unique, atmospheric and memorable games ever made.

And of course barely anyone played it. If there is ever a reason for the importance of emulation, this game is it.

Prince Talmit
02-16-2018, 04:40 PM
What do they mean with the opening statement: "remains nearly impossible to play".
Do they mean because it is expensive, that makes it impossible to play? Is PDS not able to be emulated or played on modded consoles? What is so impossible, and why have I not heard of this before?
Do I really want to continue reading an article that opens with such a moronic statement?
No.


A team with no experience in RPGs

Off the top of my head, I'd thought one of the team members worked on Crusader of Centy.

Kamahl
02-16-2018, 05:14 PM
Off the top of my head, I'd thought one of the team members worked on Crusader of Centy.
Not really an RPG.

bultje112
02-16-2018, 05:24 PM
What do they mean with the opening statement: "remains nearly impossible to play".
Do they mean because it is expensive, that makes it impossible to play? Is PDS not able to be emulated or played on modded consoles? What is so impossible, and why have I not heard of this before?
Do I really want to continue reading an article that opens with such a moronic statement?
No.


Off the top of my head, I'd thought one of the team members worked on Crusader of Centy.

did you read past the first 4 lines?

cleeg
02-16-2018, 05:36 PM
I took it to mean that in order to play it properly and without too much faff (emulation, looking for the right ROMs, settings tweeking etc) you'd need a Saturn. Even then we have the faff of connecting that to a modern TV and having it run right. All our kind of thing, being that we like complicated gaming setups and tinkering with them as much as we like actually playing.

I also got the impression that this article was aiming more at the more modern gamer who might have an interest in older games but not wanting to go to these lengths - there was the reference to ports for modern systems and so on, I think the author meant it's almost impossible to play for this more casual crowd given all the limitations to actually accessing the title effectively and easily to play in a worthwhile way.

zyrobs
02-16-2018, 06:13 PM
I skimmed over the article, there are some parts in it I find strange, particularly how they changed stuff in the localization. Did they really come up with things like "Pattergo" and "Baldor"? Or would I see パッテルゴ and バードル if I booted up the JP version?

It's well known that the localization does contain liberties (Stolarium comes to mind), but some of those are suspicious.


What do they mean with the opening statement: "remains nearly impossible to play".
Do they mean because it is expensive, that makes it impossible to play? Is PDS not able to be emulated or played on modded consoles? What is so impossible, and why have I not heard of this before?
Do I really want to continue reading an article that opens with such a moronic statement?
No.

The only good emulators that can play it are for Windows PCs. Emulation today means virtual console on the Wii or some Android crap to play on your phone. And you have to know how to set up those emulators too; if it's more complicated than buying it on Steam then it is automatically impossible to play for a lot of people.

It sucks that the game went up so much in price. I remember buying my copy for something around 80 british pounds and selling it for twice as much a year later. Today it would cost me 320 pounds minimum, or 400 with the cardboard cover included.

cleeg
02-16-2018, 06:27 PM
Android is quite interesting at the mo - Yabasanshiro is quite capable, all things considered, and quite frequently updated with a responsive dev.

Da_Shocker
02-16-2018, 09:49 PM
I need to boot this fucker up I bought this Warcraft and Steep Slope Sliders and Hexen all for 360 like wow 9-11-15

Prince Talmit
02-16-2018, 11:09 PM
did you read past the first 4 lines?

Do I really want to continue reading an article that opens with such a moronic statement?
No.
(but actually I did skim it. And I see the author again claims the original PDS is "impossible" to play today.)

I know hyperbole is very popular especially with videogame writers but this is worse than that.
Does the writer know what impossible means? Do the readers?

Buy Panzer Dragoon Saga (and a Saturn), play it, sell it, pretty much break even. Where's the impossibility again?

Team Andromeda
02-17-2018, 05:36 AM
I skimmed over the article, there are some parts in it I find strange, particularly how they changed stuff in the localization. Did they really come up with things like "Pattergo" and "Baldor"?

This is whats gets me when people slag off Working Designs, there are always changes with translation jobs and to me Working Designs did some of the best..


It sucks that the game went up so much in price.
Yeah, I remember getting my copy for 35 a day before the official release from Gameplay (who always shipped games early) . Good times and for my money the best RPG of that generation

Black_Tiger
02-17-2018, 10:35 AM
This is whats gets me when people slag off Working Designs, there are always changes with translation jobs and to me Working Designs did some of the best..


Yeah, I remember getting my copy for 35 a day before the official release from Gameplay (who always shipped games early) . Good times and for my money the best RPG of that generation

Even if that was true, the reason is that Working Designs is responsible for the absolute worst.

bultje112
02-17-2018, 11:10 AM
working designs did some very bad translation work. shining wisdom in us makes no sense compared to the actual true translation that is the pal version of the game. there are also differences in translation between saga us and saga pal version. the pal version probably being a lot more trustworthy again.

Barone
02-17-2018, 11:21 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOIgYrLi5Tc

Team Andromeda
02-17-2018, 11:33 AM
Even if that was true, the reason is that Working Designs is responsible for the absolute worst.

There are behind some of the best IMO. Fantastic translations and also a true commitment to kind of artwork, packaging and colour scans on games discs to their Japanese equivalents. I only wish Bernie didn't pee them off and with it, any hope of Grandia on the Saturn in the West. The SONY translation is a joke

bultje112
02-17-2018, 01:54 PM
grandia would've never been released in the west on saturn knowing how tediously slow working designs were in translating a game.

Team Andromeda
02-17-2018, 02:49 PM
grandia would've never been released in the west on saturn knowing how tediously slow working designs were in translating a game.

Only Albert Odessy was delayed for ages and lead to the tagline of Working Delays (Magic Knight Rayearth was different) . Most were done in reasonable time frame of 8 months or so and SEGA were still brining games out for the Saturn in late 98 like with Deep Fear for Pal

Black_Tiger
02-17-2018, 03:51 PM
Only Albert Odessy was delayed for ages and lead to the tagline of Working Delays (Magic Knight Rayearth was different) . Most were done in reasonable time frame of 8 months or so and SEGA were still brining games out for the Saturn in late 98 like with Deep Fear for Pal

Albert Odyssey was one of WD's timelier releases. Shockman 2, Cosmic Fantasy 3, King of Monsters and World Heroes never even got released.

bultje112
02-17-2018, 05:59 PM
Only Albert Odessy was delayed for ages and lead to the tagline of Working Delays (Magic Knight Rayearth was different) . Most were done in reasonable time frame of 8 months or so and SEGA were still brining games out for the Saturn in late 98 like with Deep Fear for Pal

pretty much every working design game took 1-3 years to develop (including all their sega cd games). a huge game like grandia would've at least taken them 2 years meaning a november 99 release on saturn in europe and us. yeah that was very realistic...

Team Andromeda
02-18-2018, 06:48 AM
pretty much every working design game took 1-3 years to develop (including all their sega cd games). a huge game like grandia would've at least taken them 2 years meaning a november 99 release on saturn in europe and us. yeah that was very realistic...

No they did not, most were done in a 8-month time frame. You are going from when the Came out in Japan to when the USA version came out, not on when WD actually picked up the rights to bring the game out and acutally started work on the project . Popful Mail, for example, took just over 4 months to handle and also Working Desgins did a fab job on the Voice acting too, somthing which terrible back inthe old days for Western versions, one only needs to play Grandia or Castlevania SOTN On the PS to see crappy voice acting and a horrible translation in full effect, hell even SEGA Shenmue was a totoal joke for western voices.

Team Andromeda
02-18-2018, 06:49 AM
Albert Odyssey was one of WD's timelier releases. Shockman 2, Cosmic Fantasy 3, King of Monsters and World Heroes never even got released.

No really it was delayed forever and a day, so much so WD even said sorry for the delay in the Translation notes.

Silence The Fallen
02-20-2018, 08:30 PM
That was a great article! Thanks for sharing, man.

I lap up every article about the Panzer games that I can.

When the article was talking about how PDS had possibly been influential, even if in an indirect way, on other more established games, i'm surprised they didn't mention Septerra Core. The designers of that game specifically sited the visual style of the Panzer games as a direct influence and it really shows from the opening cut scene.

Black_Tiger
02-21-2018, 05:30 PM
No really it was delayed forever and a day, so much so WD even said sorry for the delay in the Translation notes.

Are the release dates online incorrect? I remember the delays, but I also rented or bought it before the Saturn died. I don't think that it coukd have been delayed nearly as long as Arc the Lad Coll or Growlancer Generations.

But like I said, the fact it made it out at all likely makes it above average.

stika
02-22-2018, 07:03 AM
This is one game I've given up on ever owning. I wold love to play it some day, but I can't bring myself to pay the price.

This article though, really makes me want to splurge the hundreds that I don't have on a copy

Team Andromeda
02-22-2018, 07:31 AM
Are the release dates online incorrect? I remember the delays, but I also rented or bought it before the Saturn died. I don't think that it coukd have been delayed nearly as long as Arc the Lad Coll or Growlancer Generations.

But like I said, the fact it made it out at all likely makes it above average.

It was delayed for over 8 months from when WD said it would ship. If you read the translation notes WD list all the issues they had, the planned stuff they had to cut at the last mine and said sorry for the huge delay with the game. Still it was a stunning RPG and made fun use of the Saturn's sound chip too

Da_Shocker
02-24-2018, 05:45 PM
Does anyone on here have the translation notes for Silhouette Mirage for the PSx. I remember reading the notes for MKR saying how good ole Vic fought tooth and nail to get the original names for MKR but then for whatever reasons he changed the names in Silhouette Mirage and those were biblical based and he wouldn't have to go through hell to do that. So what was the deal with that?

Jeckidy
03-09-2018, 07:18 PM
Did anyone hear about Saori Kobayashi (the composer) remaking and arranging the PDS soundtrack for release on CD, vinyl and digital just this past January? Lookie:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/24/16925534/panzer-dragoon-saga-soundtrack-composer-interview

Hope one of you guys got a copy in some format or another. This is pretty amazing! :D

zyrobs
03-09-2018, 09:41 PM
Does anyone on here have the translation notes for Silhouette Mirage for the PSx. I remember reading the notes for MKR saying how good ole Vic fought tooth and nail to get the original names for MKR but then for whatever reasons he changed the names in Silhouette Mirage and those were biblical based and he wouldn't have to go through hell to do that. So what was the deal with that?

The deal is that USA censorship rules are retarded and hypocritical, and anything alluding to sexuality or religion is a big nono and video games lead directly to school shootings and the corruption of the innocent. Just like it did in the 1950s with Rock & Roll, and in the 1970s with hippies.

IrishNinja
03-09-2018, 10:08 PM
good article - working through it, thanks OP


Albert Odyssey was one of WD's timelier releases. Shockman 2, Cosmic Fantasy 3, King of Monsters and World Heroes never even got released.

huh...i knew about Cosmic 3, didn't know about the others

Team Andromeda
03-10-2018, 03:50 AM
[QUOTE=zyrobs;808749]The deal is that USA censorship rules are retarded and hypocritical/QUOTE]

Tell me about it. Lunar II had to have the nipples off the vine boss in Lunar II taken out for the SEGA CD version at the request of SOA, SOA took out some of the full body CGI pictures of Dural in FightingMega mix, but forgot that the Dural was fully playable in the game.
Some of the censorship that happened back in the day was utterly ridiculous.

xelement5x
03-17-2018, 02:22 AM
Did anyone hear about Saori Kobayashi (the composer) remaking and arranging the PDS soundtrack for release on CD, vinyl and digital just this past January? Lookie:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/24/16925534/panzer-dragoon-saga-soundtrack-composer-interview

Hope one of you guys got a copy in some format or another. This is pretty amazing! :D

I looked at this but to be honest I didn't really like what was done with the soundtrack so I decided to pass on picking it up.

Blades
03-17-2018, 06:56 AM
Just ordered mine.

Blades
03-19-2018, 07:47 AM
I listened to the album. It's fantastic. Highly recommended, even as a standalone album.

BonusKun
03-25-2018, 09:19 AM
I listened to the album. It's fantastic. Highly recommended, even as a standalone album.

Where did you listen to it at?

Edit: Never mind I found it.

Blades
03-26-2018, 11:11 AM
When I bought it, they gave me a FLAC download.

BonusKun
03-27-2018, 12:43 PM
I had a chance to sit and listen. This is very damn well done. So many memories of this game flooded into me listening to this.