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cleeg
02-28-2018, 06:03 PM
https://www.patreon.com/prof_abrasive/posts

This looks to be getting interesting...

MushaAleste
05-22-2018, 05:47 AM
Hopefully this thing gets released this year. Would be so awesome playing saturn discs from usb sticks.

Mad Moham
10-07-2019, 07:41 PM
Is this project going anywhere?

The original video gave me the impression that most of the work had already been done. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know exactly what's involved in bringing a product like this to market, so I'm guessing that progress has happened fairly steadily since the original announcement. Surely he's close to launch by now?

zyrobs
10-07-2019, 07:46 PM
AFAIK he is struggling to get them to the market - finding good places to mass produce them, building his QA test bench, getting components, etc.

It sucks that he put his latest updates to be patreon only, so I'm not up to date with the progress. I hope I'll be able to test it once the devices are out.

Virtua Hunter
11-09-2019, 10:42 AM
any news about the satiator?

Greg2600
11-10-2019, 01:25 AM
I'm not paying Patreon for what are generally quite uninspiring updates. He talked about eXFAT awhile ago, then the other day posted about shells yet again.

zyrobs
11-10-2019, 04:16 PM
any news about the satiator?

In the professors words, it is "finally close to shipping".

Virtua Hunter
11-11-2019, 07:30 AM
shipping to patreons only or finally selling to everyone?

MushaAleste
11-11-2019, 02:50 PM
It kind of looks sexy. Like Soap Bars or something?
15173https://i.redd.it/m00qdhjb7yx31.jpg

zyrobs
11-11-2019, 03:31 PM
For prototypes, it's not bad (I didn't follow, they might be even 3d printed?).
Paint it black or grey, leave space for a sticker and you got a deal. You could even make the satiator text spray painted gold (Megadrive colour scheme), white (PAL colour scheme), or have the plastic grey/white with black/purple logo (jp colour scheme), etc.

My only concern is about whether they fit in the slot or not, since the MPEG cards use a thin metal layer that hugs the port very closely (if the metal is bent a little, you can barely insert the card). A plastic case as thin as the MPEG cards would be brittle, so it has to be made thicker, and then it may not have enough space. But I'm guessing that this is something that was at least tested in advance.
Either way, hopefully we'll soon see.

Unfortunately I can't access the last patron-only posts, this may have been addressed there.


shipping to patreons only or finally selling to everyone?

Only the beta units for now.

roce
11-12-2019, 06:09 AM
Yeah that's obviously 3d-printed with the extrusion method (cheapest). That can't be colored easily, it'd be by hand.

Virtua Hunter
11-15-2019, 10:51 AM
I prefer if they make it black.

I also hope it will fit the mpeg slot without issues.

CrossBow
11-15-2019, 01:41 PM
I prefer if they make it black.

I also hope it will fit the mpeg slot without issues.

It plugs in the back? Does the color really matter? I know I don't see the back of my consoles when they are up on the shelf connected up for use. Unless you are using a mirror back glass behind your consoles?

zyrobs
11-15-2019, 09:56 PM
Oh haha true enough, once plugged in you'll never see it. And in that regard, any sort of paint job whatsoever would be a liability, since it would scrape off while being inserted or removed.

Mad Moham
11-16-2019, 07:59 AM
I'm interested in buying one, but I don't have a 'Siega'. Hopefully it'll work with my Sega console.

Jeckidy
11-17-2019, 09:21 AM
Does this cartridge have the same problem of the PCB being too thick so as to stretch out the connectors in the Saturn like Action Replay did? I might get one to play Saturn Grandia in english with the patch. I want to rip my copy of it from CD and patch it to play on the system through this device. I only do things legally for the most part. Also want to know if you can dump your bios for emulators through it.

zyrobs
11-17-2019, 10:06 AM
Does this cartridge have the same problem of the PCB being too thick so as to stretch out the connectors in the Saturn like Action Replay did? I might get one to play Saturn Grandia in english with the patch. I want to rip my copy of it from CD and patch it to play on the system through this device. I only do things legally for the most part. Also want to know if you can dump your bios for emulators through it.

That's an urban legend that has been debunked repeatedly. ARs and pretty much all carts use the same thickness PCBs, and also it is an industry standard size. I think there's one card that is half a milli thicker but it's some obscure mega memory card with 80k blocks. And even then, the Saturn cart slot isn't killed by the slightly thicker card, the problem is just that the pins are so small that the connectors get contact problems if there's even minimal amounts of dirt on them.

Virtua Hunter
11-18-2019, 08:34 AM
It plugs in the back? Does the color really matter? I know I don't see the back of my consoles when they are up on the shelf connected up for use. Unless you are using a mirror back glass behind your consoles?

that's true, still I prefer black :D
Also I hope that you don't have to left the expansion port open to make it fit.

Virtua Hunter
11-18-2019, 08:40 AM
That's an urban legend that has been debunked repeatedly. ARs and pretty much all carts use the same thickness PCBs, and also it is an industry standard size. I think there's one card that is half a milli thicker but it's some obscure mega memory card with 80k blocks. And even then, the Saturn cart slot isn't killed by the slightly thicker card, the problem is just that the pins are so small that the connectors get contact problems if there's even minimal amounts of dirt on them.

I don't think it's an urban legend.
In my experience the official Sega carts are recognized by the console as soon as they are inserted.

The infamous CD+Plus (the one with the JP mega drive cart shell) that should have a thicker PCB "that could damage the slot", is recognized easily.

While other carts that should have thinner PCB like Saturn CD Key or AR can tooks even 50 attempts before being recognized and sometime you just have to give up.

Team Andromeda
11-18-2019, 09:49 AM
I don't think it's an urban legend.
In my experience the official Sega carts are recognized by the console as soon as they are inserted..

No, it's not. The 8 MEG (Black) Memory Carts were terrible for not being recognized by the Saturn same for the early Pro Uni Adapter (also black) and could mess up your Saturn. I'm not sure if they were ever sold outside the UK mind
That said I can't help but feel that SEGA used a cheap cart slot inside the Saturn and should and could have been a lot better

CrossBow
11-18-2019, 10:14 AM
that's true, still I prefer black :D
Also I hope that you don't have to left the expansion port open to make it fit.

I haven't seen what it looks like inserted of course, but if the SD card sticking out is any indication, I'm going to guess, this will require leaving the rear cover off in order to use it as the SD card might stick out too far to allow the entire thing to be closed up. Also, it might make it difficult to remove the card from the Saturn if it is recessed in too far. Similar to how the blinking light win on the NES can make removal of NES carts kinda a pain.

zyrobs
11-18-2019, 05:08 PM
I just measured my Saturn carts with a Vernier, the action replay, two backup memory carts, and two RAM Expansions all measured to 16mm. So no, the AR is not thicker. I still maintain that they just get dusty too easily, every time I have cart problems I can just clean the carts and they'll work. It's tiresome but it is what it is.

I also had to clean up MPEG carts in the past to get them working. In every case, you could see visible dust marks in the middle of the pins of all the carts.

Virtua Hunter
11-18-2019, 05:51 PM
No, it's not. The 8 MEG (Black) Memory Carts were terrible for not being recognized by the Saturn same for the early Pro Uni Adapter (also black) and could mess up your Saturn. I'm not sure if they were ever sold outside the UK mind
That said I can't help but feel that SEGA used a cheap cart slot inside the Saturn and should and could have been a lot better

absolutely agree.
By the way since I have to buy a new Action replay, do you know for your experience, if there is a good Action Replay or another adapter that doesn't have have this issue?

Virtua Hunter
11-18-2019, 05:56 PM
I haven't seen what it looks like inserted of course, but if the SD card sticking out is any indication, I'm going to guess, this will require leaving the rear cover off in order to use it as the SD card might stick out too far to allow the entire thing to be closed up. Also, it might make it difficult to remove the card from the Saturn if it is recessed in too far. Similar to how the blinking light win on the NES can make removal of NES carts kinda a pain.

you're right, hope they hit the sweet spot so you can close the reare cover without making it a pain to remove when necessary.
Leaving it open would be cheap for what is (seems) otherwise an elegant solution.
We'll see.

zyrobs
11-18-2019, 06:52 PM
absolutely agree.
By the way since I have to buy a new Action replay, do you know for your experience, if there is a good Action Replay or another adapter that doesn't have have this issue?

The standard Action Replay 4+1 cart is exactly as thick as the official backup/ram carts.

The problem isn't the cart slot being cheaply made - it has too many pins, so each pin has to be thinner, and so minimum amount of dirt on the pins or the cartridge can cause contact issues. The be more reliable, the cartridge slot needs to be either wider, or have fewer pins. If they removed all the CPU accesses and left it as a data-only port, then the problem wouldn't have occurred, but they wanted to put all those pins there because of all the problems they had with expanding the Megadrive (the Megadrive lacked CPU interrupts or video input pins in the cart and ext connectors, resulting in the Mega CD and the 32x both requiring expensive and unreliable workarounds).

The MPEG expansion slot has the same pin pitch as the cart slot, by the way, so don't expect there to be no issues with it once the Satiator comes out.

edit: regarding the action replay, as well as some of the "mega memory" carts, they use an internal firmware either to compress saves, move saves, act as a region unlock cart, etc. However the firmware and the save data is on the same flash chip, so if there's a faulty write when copying a save file, there's a chance for the firmware to get corrupted (it gets partially overwritten making it unable to boot). So there's a chance that they can brick themselves no matter what, which can explain all those "cart is not working" issues. You can unbrick them with a firmware patcher luckily, but the savegames will be lost.
Backup memory carts can sometimes go corrupted the same way too. I had to write a memory cart parser once to recover my lost saves, it wasn't fun. It's why I'm hoping that the Satiator can save stuff to the SD card, so I can back up my save games more easily.

Team Andromeda
11-19-2019, 03:26 AM
absolutely agree.
By the way since I have to buy a new Action replay, do you know for your experience, if there is a good Action Replay or another adapter that doesn't have this issue?

The latter white ones were a lot better. I still also still have the old back ones and can tell you from personal experience it's No Myth' the launch 8 Meg cart was horrible and that backline you can see on the Universal adaptor was where I had to mark the line where the cart should be sitting, for the Cart to work. But I got my Universal adaptor on the launch of Bug in the USA in 1995 and thankfully Datel improved the Carts later on

https://i.imgur.com/EL1SPnu.jpg

Virtua Hunter
11-20-2019, 08:03 AM
The standard Action Replay 4+1 cart is exactly as thick as the official backup/ram carts.

The problem isn't the cart slot being cheaply made - it has too many pins, so each pin has to be thinner, and so minimum amount of dirt on the pins or the cartridge can cause contact issues. The be more reliable, the cartridge slot needs to be either wider, or have fewer pins. If they removed all the CPU accesses and left it as a data-only port, then the problem wouldn't have occurred, but they wanted to put all those pins there because of all the problems they had with expanding the Megadrive (the Megadrive lacked CPU interrupts or video input pins in the cart and ext connectors, resulting in the Mega CD and the 32x both requiring expensive and unreliable workarounds).

The MPEG expansion slot has the same pin pitch as the cart slot, by the way, so don't expect there to be no issues with it once the Satiator comes out.

edit: regarding the action replay, as well as some of the "mega memory" carts, they use an internal firmware either to compress saves, move saves, act as a region unlock cart, etc. However the firmware and the save data is on the same flash chip, so if there's a faulty write when copying a save file, there's a chance for the firmware to get corrupted (it gets partially overwritten making it unable to boot). So there's a chance that they can brick themselves no matter what, which can explain all those "cart is not working" issues. You can unbrick them with a firmware patcher luckily, but the savegames will be lost.
Backup memory carts can sometimes go corrupted the same way too. I had to write a memory cart parser once to recover my lost saves, it wasn't fun. It's why I'm hoping that the Satiator can save stuff to the SD card, so I can back up my save games more easily.

You made good points.
What I don't understand is this, in my case I have the ST Key, that is a simple and very common import adapter (at least back in the day) with no other functions, so I don't think it has problem with firmware corruptions.

ST Key always had problem being recognized since day one, sometime it could be worse with dirt, but even after lots of cleaning, it never worked fine.
Then I have the infamous CD+Plus, another adapter only, notorious among the community to have a thinker PCB that could damage the slot pins.
I don't know if it's true, but what I can say is this cart never need any cleaning, it work as soon as you insert it, but you can easlily feel that it's harder to insert in the slot than other carts...

Maybe there are multiple causes, but I cannot exclude the PCB variable thickness.

Virtua Hunter
01-16-2020, 08:13 AM
Any news about satiator?

Greg2600
01-17-2020, 01:16 AM
He's shipped all the Beta units, and those people have been testing for several weeks. From what I've read, most games are running fine. There's some FMV hiccups, but he had them working previously, so it's a matter of figuring out what he "broke."


https://youtu.be/digVewVEqGg

Joe Redifer
01-17-2020, 04:52 AM
Very much looking forward to this! Does anyone know what format the disc images need to be in? I know the Phoebe and Rhea need them to be in Disc Juggler format, of all things. That disappointed me because I was hoping for a format that would be far more obscure and annoying to deal with. Nobody wants it easy! J/K I hope it likes ISO + WAV or BINs and CUEs or both or all!

CrossBow
01-17-2020, 10:20 AM
He's shipped all the Beta units, and those people have been testing for several weeks. From what I've read, most games are running fine. There's some FMV hiccups, but he had them working previously, so it's a matter of figuring out what he "broke."

Wonder if the issue is actually the SDcards themselves? I know when I got my Atari 5200 AtariMax SD, that one of the first things I tested on it was the Bad Apple demo. It ran but did so at inconsistent speed and just jerky overall. I was using the SDcard that came with the atarimax cart at the time. I then thought I would try using a faster class SDcard and sure enough the demo ran smoothly once I did that.

So again it could be more to do with the quality and speed of the read/write of the SD cards vs the satiator itself?

Assman
01-17-2020, 11:22 AM
Very much looking forward to this! Does anyone know what format the disc images need to be in? I know the Phoebe and Rhea need them to be in Disc Juggler format, of all things. That disappointed me because I was hoping for a format that would be far more obscure and annoying to deal with. Nobody wants it easy! J/K I hope it likes ISO + WAV or BINs and CUEs or both or all!

This is from about a year ago on the Patreon page:


currently, it supports ISO and BIN/CUE. ... The BIN/CUE support handles multiple files (eg .iso + .cdr audio). It doesn't currently handle WAV tracks but that should be easy to add.

zyrobs
01-17-2020, 11:45 AM
Very much looking forward to this! Does anyone know what format the disc images need to be in? I know the Phoebe and Rhea need them to be in Disc Juggler format, of all things. That disappointed me because I was hoping for a format that would be far more obscure and annoying to deal with. Nobody wants it easy! J/K I hope it likes ISO + WAV or BINs and CUEs or both or all!

Rhea supports CloneCD, which is like a bin/cue plus a subcode file and a different descriptor. The key is that Rhea needs subcodes to work because the device is not strong enough to *generate* subcode data.
Satiator does not need or use subcodes but as a consequence things like seeking in the cd player do not work. There are also some a handful of games using multiple track indexes which are not handled yet. And CD+G discs probably also do not work.

Greg2600
01-17-2020, 04:40 PM
I'm watching ReEnthused (Twitch) https://www.twitch.tv/reenthused and he's testing a new fix for FMV. Seems the FMV skipping is fixed though sound effects are a bit laggy (probably due to his capture card).

Virtua Hunter
01-18-2020, 10:19 AM
hope this could be mass produced soon.
I'm also looking for these features:

-ability to change console region discs, just like a normal EU/US/JP adapter, but via Satiator
-support for cheat codes and homebrew
-save cart funcions

Anybody mentioned these features?

gamevet
01-18-2020, 03:45 PM
I just measured my Saturn carts with a Vernier, the action replay, two backup memory carts, and two RAM Expansions all measured to 16mm. So no, the AR is not thicker. I still maintain that they just get dusty too easily, every time I have cart problems I can just clean the carts and they'll work. It's tiresome but it is what it is.

I also had to clean up MPEG carts in the past to get them working. In every case, you could see visible dust marks in the middle of the pins of all the carts.

Do you have the black (1st Edition) Action Replay? That was the 1st one I had bought back in 1995. My memory carts worked fine, until I used that fat POS.

Greg2600
01-18-2020, 10:21 PM
hope this could be mass produced soon.
I'm also looking for these features:

-ability to change console region discs, just like a normal EU/US/JP adapter, but via Satiator
-support for cheat codes and homebrew
-save cart funcions

Anybody mentioned these features?

https://www.patreon.com/posts/features-and-23766725?utm_medium=post_notification_email&utm_source=post_link&utm_campaign=patron_engagement

Granted that feature update is a year old, I don't think he's changed much since then.

--Definitely bypasses region locking.
--Does not interefere with the cart slot, so saves, RAM, and AR will function as is. He wasn't sure at the time how AR boot sequence affects it. Though it doesn't interact with the internal save mechanism, no reason something can't be written to do so.
--Supporting ISO and BIN/CUE formats, including multi-disc games (swapping).
--Does not support Video CD emulation, nor will it.
--Load times will mirror the OEM CD Drive.
--WAV support has to be added, MP3 will not be supported.

Virtua Hunter
01-21-2020, 10:08 AM
https://www.patreon.com/posts/features-and-23766725?utm_medium=post_notification_email&utm_source=post_link&utm_campaign=patron_engagement

Granted that feature update is a year old, I don't think he's changed much since then.

--Definitely bypasses region locking.
--Does not interefere with the cart slot, so saves, RAM, and AR will function as is. He wasn't sure at the time how AR boot sequence affects it. Though it doesn't interact with the internal save mechanism, no reason something can't be written to do so.
--Supporting ISO and BIN/CUE formats, including multi-disc games (swapping).
--Does not support Video CD emulation, nor will it.
--Load times will mirror the OEM CD Drive.
--WAV support has to be added, MP3 will not be supported.


Thanks
It's not clear if the region bypass works only for ISO or also for retail discs.

zyrobs
01-21-2020, 04:38 PM
I believe it was mentioned that it'll let all region original discs work as well, but I'm too busy to test it now...

Greg2600
01-21-2020, 09:05 PM
*I'm pretty sure that Satiator only comes online if you're disc drive is empty; therefore, it will likely not act like an Action Replay and allow other region discs to play.

From the ReEnthused Channel


We take another look at the Satiator after updating to the newest firmware.
Firmware 73:
Fixes FMV stuttering
Speeds up menu loading when there are lots of files
Adds page switching with shoulder buttons
First attempts at implementing audio indexing


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2yMWUPr9l8

GameUser-16-32-128
02-16-2020, 05:39 PM
Do you have the black (1st Edition) Action Replay? That was the 1st one I had bought back in 1995. My memory carts worked fine, until I used that fat POS. From Interact (or whatever they were called)? I bought the Gameshark at Software Etc / EB and that thing was a pain in the ass to fit into the slot. Once it "stopped" working, I trashed it. Then my other carts suddenly took more effort to make them work (ie, remove and put back into slot 3-5x). Thankfully, the cart slot still works.

Knuckle Duster
05-07-2020, 03:54 PM
The MODE looks tempting. Still waiting for the Satiator though.


Hey, Prof. Abrasive.

https://media.tenor.com/images/a1beb57cbae4d6723117076b5c57e6aa/tenor.gif

Greg2600
06-08-2020, 02:50 PM
So with the PCB and Case manufacturing I guess sorted out, shouldn't be too much longer before retail production can commence. I finally saw what Prof. wrote back in April, which made reference that assembly will occur in California, with a small run of 100 for testing. They have the test rig there, and once those pass, he will order 1000. PCB and the below injected molded case will come from China, while the boxes also are printed in USA. So I would expect another update about the boxes, the first 100 batch testing, and also his pre-order site. Being that the units may be shipped out of the USA, those in the EU are already aghast at what kind of import cost they'll be stuck with. One last thing is that Patreon supporters will get first dibs, and right now he's got over 1200 of them, which could possibly account for the entire "first run" that he wrote about in April.

https://www.retrorgb.com/satiator-case-enters-production.html


ďThese are the first samples off the tool Ė and theyíll be the last. Thanks to the expertise of my US manufacturing partner and the toolmaker, they fit perfectly first time; the tool does not need revision. Iím ordering production parts right now.ď

https://cdn.retrorgb.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/21101448/satiator2-768x562.jpg

https://cdn.retrorgb.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/21101443/satiator1-2048x994.jpg

Black_Tiger
06-08-2020, 04:13 PM
The design is nice but that logo is terrible. :P

Hopefully these devices will continue to limp on and eventually get close enough to perfect. I'd love a plug 'n play solution.

xelement5x
06-09-2020, 05:36 PM
I really hope he does his manufacturing in the US instead of abroad. I've heard of nothing but issues with manufacturing stuff like this abroad, then getting just ripped off when bootleggers make and sell them cheaper.

Greg2600
06-09-2020, 05:57 PM
The design is nice but that logo is terrible. :P

Hopefully these devices will continue to limp on and eventually get close enough to perfect. I'd love a plug 'n play solution.

Well you won't see the logo once it's installed!


I really hope he does his manufacturing in the US instead of abroad. I've heard of nothing but issues with manufacturing stuff like this abroad, then getting just ripped off when bootleggers make and sell them cheaper.

From the post I saw, it sounds like assembly will take place in California, although the PCB's and other components (I assume chips) are probably being printed/shipped from China. Soldering, testing, shell molding, and boxing would be in USA. Buyers in the EU are not happy because they'll have to pay a hefty duty to import them unless a retailer does it for them.

Virtua Hunter
06-09-2020, 06:20 PM
Case is nice, apart for the "gold sparkles" that make it feel more cheap somewhat.

any rumor about the final price?
So the first run will be for patreons...

Greg2600
06-09-2020, 10:27 PM
Case is nice, apart for the "gold sparkles" that make it feel more cheap somewhat.

any rumor about the final price?
So the first run will be for patreons...

Price completely unknown at this point. Yes Patreon first, and he's got like 1300 technically signed up, though not sure if they're all still contributing to him. I would imagine that run sells out before the Gen Pop gets near it.

Virtua Hunter
06-10-2020, 10:54 AM
Price completely unknown at this point. Yes Patreon first, and he's got like 1300 technically signed up, though not sure if they're all still contributing to him. I would imagine that run sells out before the Gen Pop gets near it.

Yeah probably.
I hope he will still want to go for a more "accessible" price.
Something like Everdrive prices would be perfect.

WaverBoy
06-11-2020, 06:32 AM
I really really want one of these. I might join his Patreon to make sure I get one...

Greg2600
06-30-2020, 01:58 PM
https://www.patreon.com/posts/pandemic-38781159


Hi gang,

I'm dismayed to see the way things are unfolding across the world at the moment. Obviously this is affecting the Satiator, and it's also affecting a lot of you, so I'm making some changes in this space.

In short, I want to make sure nobody feels pressured to contribute. As of now, all of my posts will be public access. I've also secured a copy of the patron data, as of today, that will be used to determine your place in the queue: if you drop or delete your pledge now or in the future, you'll still have the same priority when the first units ship.

I'm pretty frustrated at just how much this project has been affected. I had assumed Made in USA was going to result in a faster, better product (though of course who predicts a global pandemic in their production planning?). Now the first 100 PCBs are, finally, being populated in a Californian fabrication facility this week. Shells have arrived in the US and the production test system is ready to go; it's almost there.

To all of you who've been affected, virus or recession, I send my thoughts. I hope we can all stick together & get through this as fast as we can.

- James

MushaAleste
07-05-2020, 12:29 AM
I can already see these hit eBay... for 400$ a pop.

Virtua Hunter
07-05-2020, 09:42 AM
Yeah :(
I still hope the price will match the Kritzz products and the stocks will be adeguate to demand, to avoid these kind of sad situations.

Greg2600
07-05-2020, 02:20 PM
Look you may get shut out initially, but if he isn't capable of producing thousand of these in the first few months, that would be crazy. He's gone to all this trouble to outsource the manufacturing and testing for specifically that purpose.

wowsux133
07-05-2020, 03:21 PM
As long as it beats the MODE in price and Rhea/Phoebe in availability, that's what it needs to do (aside from 100% game compatibility, last I heard the beta units were a bit buggy) to succeed. Keeping the disc drive intact is a nice feature but I doubt the majority of potential buyers would see it as a deal breaker.

Joe Redifer
07-05-2020, 08:45 PM
Supposedly MODE has 100% compatibility, but I haven't tried one yet. Rhea/Phoebe are jokes and should be regarded as such. This may be a good middleground for people who don't need that obscure Japanese-only mahjong game to work or whatnot. Or who don't wanna open up their Saturns and prefer to retain optical drive capabilities. I wish it the best!

wowsux133
07-05-2020, 09:16 PM
Supposedly MODE has 100% compatibility, but I haven't tried one yet. Rhea/Phoebe are jokes and should be regarded as such. This may be a good middleground for people who don't need that obscure Japanese-only mahjong game to work or whatnot. Or who don't wanna open up their Saturns and prefer to retain optical drive capabilities. I wish it the best!

I've heard the same regarding MODE, speaking of which is TerraOnion sending you a review unit? Yeah, Rhea and Phoebe were fine years ago when they were the only thing out there for the Saturn, but we've gotten so many more options in the last year or so, that they're pretty much a relic of the past ODE-wise. I think I'd be more inclined to go for the MODE as it stands now, but if the Satiator is a decent price and has really high/perfect compatibility, I'd go that route.

CrossBow
07-05-2020, 10:08 PM
I've preorderd for a MODE but plan to use it in my DC. I already have a Rhea in my main Saturn I use and it has been great! That said, when the Satiator is released to the masses and if it works as well as a Rhea/Phobe do, then I can see me ordering one to put into my other Saturn that I keep as a backup. So I've been watching the Satiator's progress intently.

Greg2600
07-05-2020, 11:15 PM
I check the Terraonion forums a lot, and there's some growing pains with the Saturn from people who just got it. Not compatibility just some install/hardware bugs. There's a bug for one of the Saturn versions they are fixing too.

Satiator beta testing seemed to be fairly good, with some CDDA audio hiccups. Tough to know exactly how far along that is, since his posts are behind the Patreon $ wall.

roce
07-06-2020, 04:14 AM
He took so long with the Satiator that an entire new device was developed and released before it could get out (Fenrir).

cleeg
07-07-2020, 01:59 AM
Supposedly MODE has 100% compatibility, but I haven't tried one yet. Rhea/Phoebe are jokes and should be regarded as such. This may be a good middleground for people who don't need that obscure Japanese-only mahjong game to work or whatnot. Or who don't wanna open up their Saturns and prefer to retain optical drive capabilities. I wish it the best!

What's bad about the Rhea and Phoebe? I have a Rhea and it works really well. Bit of a faff admittedly, but I wouldn't call it a joke. I am looking forward to trying a Satiotor though, it's such a beautiful concept to plug and play like that.

CrossBow
07-07-2020, 03:55 PM
What's bad about the Rhea and Phoebe? I have a Rhea and it works really well. Bit of a faff admittedly, but I wouldn't call it a joke. I am looking forward to trying a Satiotor though, it's such a beautiful concept to plug and play like that.

I think the main issue anyone really has with the Rhea/Phobe's is their lack of availability. Aside from that, the are very easy to install and once you get the menu loader onto them in the first boot partition, it is very easy to use it and to create your own dumps to put onto it as I did on mine?

Again I'm curious to see how the Satiator does when it is released and will be reading all the reviews I can on it to see what it is like.

Centrale
07-10-2020, 12:34 PM
Even for a niche product like this, you can expect demand to be in the thousands... that's still pretty tough logistically for a one-person operation to pull off. It would take a lot of money up front to cover manufacturing and shipping to make things go as quickly as possible. In most cases I imagine that up-front money isn't present, and so one handful of orders has to fund the next.

Joe Redifer
07-13-2020, 01:56 AM
The thing about Rhea and Phobe besides the lack of availability is that you need to install a menu loader. The user should have to do that. Same with the GDEmu. It's a half-baked product at best. Not only that, it requires outdated DiskJuggler images and won't work with redumps or other rips. It's a joke product as obviously the creator couldn't be bothered to make it better (or even available). I can't take it seriously. The creator insists on doing everything himself and his product is far worse off for it.

CrossBow
07-13-2020, 10:28 AM
The thing about Rhea and Phobe besides the lack of availability is that you need to install a menu loader. The user should have to do that. Same with the GDEmu. It's a half-baked product at best. Not only that, it requires outdated DiskJuggler images and won't work with redumps or other rips. It's a joke product as obviously the creator couldn't be bothered to make it better (or even available). I can't take it seriously. The creator insists on doing everything himself and his product is far worse off for it.

Well, I can understand it not having a built in menu being a pain, but there is one and it isn't that big a deal to get it installed and working. As for the images, I gave up trying to make any I found online work so I created my own using DJ off my originals and with the exception of one of my games that always had issues being read in the first place due to severe scratches, I've got my library backed up on my Rhea working just fine. I've got a MODE on order that I will put into my Dreamcast but I do plan to pick up a Satiator once released to the masses for my other Saturn.

Greg2600
07-26-2020, 12:18 AM
I'm working on a shopping cart now! The assembler tells me the boards are all soldered and I'm waiting for them to get to test and programming. I'll get a proper post up this weekend.

The Prof replied on Patreon the other day with that, so I guess an update is forthcoming.

wowsux133
08-17-2020, 11:34 AM
So the Satiator is going to cost $259.99...

roce
08-17-2020, 03:24 PM
Trying hard to outdo TerraOnion it seems :P

Virtua Hunter
08-17-2020, 05:17 PM
So the Satiator is going to cost $259.99...

I hope it's a joke :|

wowsux133
08-17-2020, 05:29 PM
I hope it's a joke :|

Nope. Patreon supporters get $15 off.

Virtua Hunter
08-17-2020, 05:37 PM
Nope. Patreon supporters get $15 off.

What, even patreons receive a $15 discount instead of a "free" unit? What's the point then...
IIRC Satiator wasn't supposed to be a "cheaper" alternative to other ode devices?

MushaAleste
08-17-2020, 05:59 PM
$260 is a hard pass and a slap in the face after all these years of waiting. No thanks.

Greg2600
08-17-2020, 06:15 PM
Hold on, he said he was making ALL new updates open to the public, and puts this one BEHIND the Patreon pay wall???

zyrobs
08-17-2020, 07:29 PM
Ouch.

Psy
08-17-2020, 09:32 PM
$260 is a hard pass and a slap in the face after all these years of waiting. No thanks.

That is more then twice what Fenrir and GC Loader costs.

zyrobs
08-17-2020, 10:27 PM
Unlike the Fenrir this is plug and play and is compatible with all units.

TrekkiesUnite118
08-18-2020, 01:59 AM
Unlike the Fenrir this is plug and play and is compatible with all units.

It also wont result in a bunch of Saturn Disc drives being needlessly thrown in the trash.

cleeg
08-18-2020, 03:20 AM
I'll probably still end up buying one at some point. It is pricey though. It'd be cool if the video card could be integrated into this thing too somehow.

Virtua Hunter
08-18-2020, 06:33 AM
It also wont result in a bunch of Saturn Disc drives being needlessly thrown in the trash.

that was the main purpose of satiator.
But it hardly justify the ludicrous price point, especially since it was meant to be cheaper than other expensive ode around...

Personally I would've used to play some of the Saturn games that are now out of reach ($200-$400), but with satiator at $260 it's just crazy, it's half the price of Hyper Duel for example, if I had to pay 260 to still play some crappy ISO/ROM, at this point it's better to add the other half and just buy a genuine Hyper Duel instead.
It's starting to not feel that expensive anymore lol.

zyrobs
08-18-2020, 10:05 AM
that was the main purpose of satiator.
But it hardly justify the ludicrous price point, especially since it was meant to be cheaper than other expensive ode around...

Personally I would've used to play some of the Saturn games that are now out of reach ($200-$400), but with satiator at $260 it's just crazy, it's half the price of Hyper Duel for example, if I had to pay 260 to still play some crappy ISO/ROM, at this point it's better to add the other half and just buy a genuine Hyper Duel instead.
It's starting to not feel that expensive anymore lol.

What if you wanted to play Hyper Duel, Keio Flying Squadron 2, Castlevania SOTN, Cotton Boomerang, Radiant Silvergun, and Taromaru as well?

Virtua Hunter
08-18-2020, 10:36 AM
What if you wanted to play Hyper Duel, Keio Flying Squadron 2, Castlevania SOTN, Cotton Boomerang, Radiant Silvergun, and Taromaru as well?

I understand your point, but then with this mindset we could excuse even a price point of $2000, since "you can play virtually the entire Saturn catalogue that could cost $30.000 or more, wow what a bargain!"

Psychology is also a factor I suppose, luckly I never paid that much for a game or an accessory, but if I have to bite the bullet with current retro prices and spend $260 i prefer to buy a genuine game, not for a ODE to play roms, especially when there are tons of cheaper options available.

The main complain is that Satiator was supposed to be the cheaper answer to other expensive ODE, instead it became the most espensive one.

Virtua Hunter
08-18-2020, 10:39 AM
cafe alpha, the maker of pseudo saturn kai, suspended development of kai for satiator

https://www.patreon.com/posts/satiator-support-40567382

Greg2600
08-18-2020, 04:14 PM
that was the main purpose of satiator.
But it hardly justify the ludicrous price point, especially since it was meant to be cheaper than other expensive ode around...

Personally I would've used to play some of the Saturn games that are now out of reach ($200-$400), but with satiator at $260 it's just crazy, it's half the price of Hyper Duel for example, if I had to pay 260 to still play some crappy ISO/ROM, at this point it's better to add the other half and just buy a genuine Hyper Duel instead.
It's starting to not feel that expensive anymore lol.

Given the barebones aspect to Fenrir, Rhea/Phoebe, etc., had it not been for Terra Onion, the price tag probably wouldn't have caused so many eye rolls. However, when you're $60 above T.O., that's problematic. Furthermore, you're probably going to be forced to spend more money on storage since the MODE can make use of a HDD vs. a high capacity SD card. It's likely that the Satiator's costs are much higher, but the Prof has yet to provide ANY rationale for this.


cafe alpha, the maker of pseudo saturn kai, suspended development of kai for satiator

https://www.patreon.com/posts/satiator-support-40567382

Prof offered the Kai guy a dev Satiator for free. He's still working on Fenrir support, and will double back with him at a later date.

What exactly would PS Kai provide on any of these ODE's?

Virtua Hunter
08-18-2020, 05:35 PM
Given the barebones aspect to Fenrir, Rhea/Phoebe, etc., had it not been for Terra Onion, the price tag probably wouldn't have caused so many eye rolls. However, when you're $60 above T.O., that's problematic. Furthermore, you're probably going to be forced to spend more money on storage since the MODE can make use of a HDD vs. a high capacity SD card. It's likely that the Satiator's costs are much higher, but the Prof has yet to provide ANY rationale for this.





I don't know, for these retro devices my standard for quality and price are the Everdrive.
Even the most barebone Everdrive, the X3 do lot more things that any of these ODE and it cost like $40.

The most expensive the Everdrive Pro is $199 but it include fpga hardware for Sega CD, we are on a total different scale.

So yeah for me Fenrir etc. were a little overpriced, unfortunately it seems MODE set a new standard for prices...

People probably complain so hard because Prof make us believe that Satiator was the cheaper/affordable and non-destructive answer to other ODE, but only the "non-destructive" part is true.
The irony is it become the most expensive device, I don't know why he decided to not manufacture it in Asia.



Prof offered the Kai guy a dev Satiator for free. He's still working on Fenrir support, and will double back with him at a later date.

What exactly would PS Kai provide on any of these ODE's?


Yeah, it seems to have his reasons, after all the wait the price reveal was a slap in the face for almost everyone.

Dunno what kai could provide, but iirc cafe alpha was working on a save-file management feature.

Greg2600
08-18-2020, 08:19 PM
People probably complain so hard because Prof make us believe that Satiator was the cheaper/affordable and non-destructive answer to other ODE, but only the "non-destructive" part is true.
The irony is it become the most expensive device, I don't know why he decided to not manufacture it in Asia.

I recall he said that he decided (after like a year of searching/contemplating) on the California operation because they would be able to assemble, test, package, and ship the product all over the world. Whether it's Terra Onion, Krikzz, Cybdyn, or RetroHQ, they'll all having China producing their boards to various degrees of completion. Some are assembling themselves, and most all are testing, packaging, and distributing from their own homes more or less. Prof. Abrasive, being in Australia, I suppose wished to avoid doing all this down there. Given his lack of spare time, I don't blame him. In fact, for awhile his idea was to sell them himself at first, and then license production/sales to someone else once the Satiator was out there. I have no clue if that's still his plan or not?

zyrobs
08-18-2020, 11:58 PM
Given the barebones aspect to Fenrir, Rhea/Phoebe, etc., had it not been for Terra Onion, the price tag probably wouldn't have caused so many eye rolls. However, when you're $60 above T.O., that's problematic. Furthermore, you're probably going to be forced to spend more money on storage since the MODE can make use of a HDD vs. a high capacity SD card. It's likely that the Satiator's costs are much higher, but the Prof has yet to provide ANY rationale for this.

The Satiator can iirc write to the SD card, and has an USB port, so it could potentially be used for interactive development. The entire original reason for the project was to make this possible. However, I have no idea if there's any development regarding making this possible (just getting the device made, tested, put on a web store, etc, is already a HUGE job for one man). The original concept was to have something like the LSDJ, an interactive music tracker on the Saturn, and then it evolved to being able to control it from the PC side (admittedly the showcase of that in the video was a mockup, but the plan was to be able to do that).

So the device could potentially make up the price issue with software features.

Also the TO Mode requires full disassembly to be installed, you have to remove everything down to the shielding because it needs the pegs unscrewed, worse than the Rhea which you can just have sitting on the pegs. And doesn't the TO Mode block the cartridge slot? I recall someone mentioning that problem, but I don't have one to test.


What exactly would PS Kai provide on any of these ODE's?

It has a save manager for one, which was one of the two features I was looking forward to - saving entire memory carts and being able to dump the CD Block. The status on both of those features, so far, is "well, it's open source, so you can add that feature".
I can't complain because I'm most likely the person who got the most out of the Satiator while paying the least, in the entire world. It's just that, I'm a little bit disappointed.

Black_Tiger
08-19-2020, 10:55 AM
I recall he said that he decided (after like a year of searching/contemplating) on the California operation because they would be able to assemble, test, package, and ship the product all over the world. Whether it's Terra Onion, Krikzz, Cybdyn, or RetroHQ, they'll all having China producing their boards to various degrees of completion. Some are assembling themselves, and most all are testing, packaging, and distributing from their own homes more or less. Prof. Abrasive, being in Australia, I suppose wished to avoid doing all this down there. Given his lack of spare time, I don't blame him. In fact, for awhile his idea was to sell them himself at first, and then license production/sales to someone else once the Satiator was out there. I have no clue if that's still his plan or not?

As far as I know, part of the premium price of TerraOnion products is that everything is manufactured locally in Spain and they visit the factory frequently to ensure everything is made how they want it.

Greg2600
08-19-2020, 01:44 PM
As far as I know, part of the premium price of TerraOnion products is that everything is manufactured locally in Spain and they visit the factory frequently to ensure everything is made how they want it.

Well Prof Abrasive I assume feels the same way about this American partner. The other price consideration vs. MODE is that it doesn't need a shell. It's been mentioned here I think, but the decision to pay for tooling to mold the shells, plus that device that lets you pull the board out of the Saturn, while very handy, costs money.

Team Andromeda
08-19-2020, 02:43 PM
Also the TO Mode requires full disassembly to be installed, you have to remove everything down to the shielding because it needs the pegs unscrewed, worse than the Rhea which you can just have sitting on the pegs. And doesn't the TO Mode block the cartridge slot? I recall someone mentioning that problem, but I don't have one to test..


No it does not . It should also be noted that MODE also allows you to use the MPEG Cart, unlike this offering .

All options have a few good and bad points. I'm more than happy with the MODE. It's yet another quality product form Terraonion. Really must say what a great and talented bunch of engineers they really are

wowsux133
08-19-2020, 03:02 PM
No it does not . It should also be noted that MODE also allows you to use the MPEG Cart, unlike this offering .

All options have a few good and bad points. I'm more than happy with the MODE. It's yet another quality product form Terraonion. Really must say what a great and talented bunch of engineers they really are

I think I saw what Zyrob was talking about, the guy installed the MODE wrong and that's why he was having issues with it partially blocking the cart slot.

Black_Tiger
08-19-2020, 03:19 PM
In the official MODE videos you can see the carts in the cart slot. They also said since the initial announcement that every game works in everyway.

Greg2600
08-19-2020, 10:09 PM
Here's an answer Prof. A. gave on Patreon to the whole cost thing...


I'll do a bit of a FAQ on this announcement in the coming days, but in the mean time, some exposition. Exact costs aside, the markup is needed in part to cover the production ramp. I've diligently saved every dollar from Patreon - separate bank accounts and everything - and it's not nearly enough to make a big batch. Right now I'm putting in orders for the longer lead time items, and then I need sales to buy parts, sort out manufacture, pay the logistics people... If the Satiators were priced at cost, I'd be stuck doing them in series, and it'd take 6 months to a year to cover the Patreon orders. As it is I am looking at dipping into my personal savings to complete the next batch promptly.

In terms of the discount, he did $15 as an average because his web store wouldn't allow multiple values. Apparently he spent a day coming up with a personalized value instead dependent on length of support. Look folks the price is what it is. He gave up the idea of assembling these himself a long time ago. COVID has thrown a wrench in his plans, making it likely that he has to put a lot of money up front now. Patreon is a tip platform, it is not kickstarter, which is why I did not participate. Had he put up product rewards up front, I would have. He did not, and anyone part of Patreon should have understood this.

zyrobs
08-20-2020, 12:31 AM
I think I saw what Zyrob was talking about, the guy installed the MODE wrong and that's why he was having issues with it partially blocking the cart slot.
Ah, okay, so that was it. My mistake.


It should also be noted that MODE also allows you to use the MPEG Cart, unlike this offering .
Who gives a shit? There's something like twelve discs that use it for slightly better video (of which half are demo cds and have the video content up on Youtube), and a re-release of Lunar that requires it. They are all curiosities at best. If you want to watch your HK porno video CDs, you can still remove the satiator and put the MPEG card back in.

Black_Tiger
08-20-2020, 12:59 AM
Ah, okay, so that was it. My mistake.


Who gives a shit? There's something like twelve discs that use it for slightly better video (of which half are demo cds and have the video content up on Youtube), and a re-release of Lunar that requires it. They are all curiosities at best. If you want to watch your HK porno video CDs, you can still remove the satiator and put the MPEG card back in.

It would suck if the most expensive Mega Drive flashcart couldn't play Phantasy Star IV.

zyrobs
08-20-2020, 03:28 AM
It would suck if the most expensive Mega Drive flashcart couldn't play Phantasy Star IV.

More like if it couldn't play one single game on a Mega Games 6 cartridge.

Team Andromeda
08-20-2020, 04:24 AM
Who gives a shit? .

Some might, more so if you want to be the complete Saturn nerd or perv (for Wangan Dead Heat) and have every Saturn title on your Harddrive or SSD. I quite enjoy Gun Griffon and it's intro MPEG to this very day.
Let's also remember with MODE inside your Saturn is become all-region, so no worries on Japanese games that only have the MPEG Code, unlike Pal Gun Griffon. Take out the Satiator and you're Saturn isn't all-region is it?


MODE is for me the better and cheaper option

Team Andromeda
08-20-2020, 04:29 AM
I think I saw what Zyrob was talking about, the guy installed the MODE wrong and that's why he was having issues with it partially blocking the cart slot.

I'm at a loss how anyone can make that mistake TBH. It's not hard to install and if you have also have a lot of freedom to move the MODE around before you use the sticky feet, you haven't even got to use them. I haven't since, as I will be taking my MODE out and placing in an SSD drive instead of my old Laptop Harddrive I currently use when hopefully Amason have some nice offers on Prime day.

roce
08-20-2020, 04:41 AM
Surely with all the folks in heat about couple-minute several-gigabyte videos on Genesis, there's someone who insists on burning all their movies as VCD and watching them on the Saturn. That at least has watchable quality and enough colors.

zyrobs
08-20-2020, 05:19 AM
Surely with all the folks in heat about couple-minute several-gigabyte videos on Genesis, there's someone who insists on burning all their movies as VCD and watching them on the Saturn. That at least has watchable quality and enough colors.

VCDs play in modern DVD players though, and they aren't really watchable anymore compared to HD videos. Even DivX encodes of DVDs have significantly better quality. About the only VCD worth watching are those which didn't get HD releases, but the only one I can think of are the original cuts to Star Wars 4-6, and I'm not even sure about those. I know they were on Laserdisc.

Team Andromeda
08-20-2020, 09:57 AM
Surely with all the folks in heat about couple-minute several-gigabyte videos on Genesis, there's someone who insists on burning all their movies as VCD and watching them on the Saturn. That at least has watchable quality and enough colors.

I watched Drunken Master II for the 1st time via Video CD on the Saturn way back when in the day. Still have it too LOL

https://i.imgur.com/kmlO1NY.jpg

Black_Tiger
08-20-2020, 12:49 PM
More like if it couldn't play one single game on a Mega Games 6 cartridge.

That would the equivalent of 283 unsupported Saturn games.

Why do you irrationally hate Silver Star Story and the Satiator so much?

eukara
08-20-2020, 01:19 PM
There's always going to be someone that'll want to play the games in the fullest experience possible, may it be with improved FMV - or the games that require it. What's wrong with that?
This doesn't even have anything to do with VCD movies.
Anyway, it was known from the get-go that Satiator is occupying the slot. For those that care the Rhea/Phoebe/MODE was the only other option.

I installed MODE the other week in my brothers Saturn, the drive in his V0 JP Saturn was dying. It couldn't even get through a session of Fighters Megamix without the CD giving up mid match.
I couldn't care less about gutting a dying drive at that point.

It's great we've got options. I hope Prof. Abrasive gets through this logistics mess of all this.

zyrobs
08-20-2020, 07:26 PM
That would the equivalent of 283 unsupported Saturn games.
I really wonder how your math added up on that, 1 re-release of a Megadrive game equalling the entire US Saturn library.


Why do you irrationally hate Silver Star Story and the Satiator so much?
I think you are confusing me with someone else, I'm actually looking forward for the Satiator because I want to see apps that use the SD Card and USB connector.

As for Lunar, I don't hate it, I just find it pointless to worry about the MPEG version of it when you can play at least 3 or 4 other versions.

gamevet
08-21-2020, 01:11 PM
VCDs play in modern DVD players though, and they aren't really watchable anymore compared to HD videos. Even DivX encodes of DVDs have significantly better quality. About the only VCD worth watching are those which didn't get HD releases, but the only one I can think of are the original cuts to Star Wars 4-6, and I'm not even sure about those. I know they were on Laserdisc.

Lucasfilm did a DVD release of the original theatrical releases a little over 10 years ago. I got 4, with the comic book from Walmart for $20, when they came out.

TrekkiesUnite118
08-21-2020, 04:29 PM
Honestly I'm with zyrobs on this one. If you want to use the MPEG card just remove the Satiator and put the MPEG card back in and use your discs. That's much easier to do with the Satiator than with the MODE. Satiator at least works alongside the disc drive instead of replacing the disc drive. In my opinion it's a much more elegant solution as it allows you to still play discs while the drive still works. It's easily removable too so you can just swap the MPEG card back in if you want to play MPEG games.

Finally, for what it's worth I've been working on the Lunar Silver Star Story Translation effort and we've already improved the original Cinepak FMV quality:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5uDCugVl5s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsZxWBtLXdk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UTOHmHufg0

The original Saturn FMVs were 232x152, PS1's are I think 238x192. These ones for the patch are 288x200.

afro man dan
08-24-2020, 04:30 AM
Wow, $260 is waaaay too much. You'd have to be an idiot to think that would be a reasonable price. He's sabotaging himself from the get-go.

Virtua Hunter
08-24-2020, 07:53 AM
I was reading his reasons, it seems that money earned from the first run of 100 units will be used to pay the production for the next run (1000 units) and so on in theory.

But after he start to mass produce this, maybe around the third run I expect the price to be greatly lowered (around $100), otherwise it's not viable for him and for us, especially in the current climate.

gamevet
08-24-2020, 11:41 AM
Why not just get a Terraonion instead?

https://shop.terraonion.com/en/home/17-Terraonion_MODE_Dreamcast_Saturn_ODE.html

Greg2600
08-24-2020, 12:19 PM
https://www.patreon.com/posts/faq-40787196

Long form FAQ posted yesterday.


supports images in BIN/CUE format (single- and multi-BIN), and ISO files. It supports on-the-fly region patching of games, so you don't need to modify your games to play them out of region.
acts as a "system disc", allowing you to boot CD-Rs, if for some reason you really want to do that.
compatible with both RAM carts and the backup save cartridge.
unaffected by 50/60 Hz switches, and by modchips.


Coming features.


Saturns with BIOS 1.00, booting into the Satiator menu requires opening and closing the CD drive lid. I already have a fix for this and it just needs a little bit of integration work.
will be a save manager integrated to the menu, so that you can transfer game saves from the Saturn's memory to the SD card and vice versa. This will also work for the backup cartridge, if you have one.
Multi-disc games will be supported. Opening and closing the Saturn's real drive lid will be used to indicate to the Satiator that you want to switch discs.
AR not supported AS IS, but AR also stores its firmware on Flash chips - it can be reprogrammed at will. So my plan here is to develop an alternative firmware for the AR to embrace the Satiator. This is actually an opportunity disguised as a problem: there are a number of cool features which can be implemented once you have a little bit of storage in the cart slot. This will be open source, however it eventuates. In the mean time, it's possible to use an AR as a RAM cartridge by flashing it with an empty firmware - which is what I run on my development system.


Compatibility spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NsgnKeMwA-ATlyKZfL3R44d8E_O9sFlWdXSnltFkE_A/edit?usp=sharing

Joe Redifer
08-24-2020, 01:56 PM
You can rip your VCDs and put them on a MODE drive and watch them in the Saturn if you have the MPEG card. Pretty cool.

TrekkiesUnite118
08-24-2020, 08:22 PM
Why not just get a Terraonion instead?

https://shop.terraonion.com/en/home/17-Terraonion_MODE_Dreamcast_Saturn_ODE.html

Because I'd like to still have the option to use my actual discs without having to completely disassemble my Saturn and reinstall the disc drive.

zyrobs
08-24-2020, 09:27 PM
Why not just get a Terraonion instead?

https://shop.terraonion.com/en/home/17-Terraonion_MODE_Dreamcast_Saturn_ODE.html

It can't back up my save game cartridge to the SD card.

gamevet
08-25-2020, 12:42 AM
Because I'd like to still have the option to use my actual discs without having to completely disassemble my Saturn and reinstall the disc drive.

You can find a backup Saturn for about $60, or better yet, a Saturn with a burned out optical lens.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-Console-Gray-HST-3210-junk-or-for-parts-japan/164213752518?hash=item263be702c6%3Ag%3AUvQAAOSwhL5 dcLru&LH_ItemCondition=7000



It can't back up my save game cartridge to the SD card.

Why would you need to do that?

It's a replacement for the CD drive. Its not like your save carts wouldn't work anymore.


https://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1blTz1W1n4=youtu.be

zyrobs
08-25-2020, 07:44 AM
Why would you need to do that?

It's a replacement for the CD drive. Its not like your save carts wouldn't work anymore.

Being able to dump data on SD card means that it can be used a dumping tool without needing to bother with soldering. And if you can dump data to SD card, that means you can also do it the other way - write savegames INTO backup carts, or even better, run binaries directly on the Saturn without needing to convert them to ISO. Plus there's the USB cable, if that will allow real time controlling, then we have miniature dev kit in our hands. Which was THE original purpose of this project.

And I've had issue with my save carts getting corrupted, and had to write my own software to recover data from them, so being able to back up the savegame cart is extremely useful.

TrekkiesUnite118
08-25-2020, 12:47 PM
You can find a backup Saturn for about $60, or better yet, a Saturn with a burned out optical lens.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-Console-Gray-HST-3210-junk-or-for-parts-japan/164213752518?hash=item263be702c6%3Ag%3AUvQAAOSwhL5 dcLru&LH_ItemCondition=7000


That's wasteful and stupid. Secondly you could probably repair the disc drive to working order in those junk systems. I think that's what irritates me more with ODEs. All the disc drives being needlessly thrown in the trash instead of being properly serviced. Which is why I think the Satiator is the better idea.

As for price, how much does MODE cost when paired with a decent sized SSD? At that point Satiator's price isn't looking too bad.

Black_Tiger
08-25-2020, 01:03 PM
That's wasteful and stupid. Secondly you could probably repair the disc drive to working order in those junk systems. I think that's what irritates me more with ODEs. All the disc drives being needlessly thrown in the trash instead of being properly serviced. Which is why I think the Satiator is the better idea.

As for price, how much does MODE cost when paired with a decent sized SSD? At that point Satiator's price isn't looking too bad.

MODE supports multiple storage devices, includung the same one that Satiator uses.

A Satiator + a HiSaturn costs more than MODE + a cheap model of Saturn, but what's the point of saying this?

The only combo worth mentioning is that the MODE supports a cheaper storage format than the Satiator does, which makes it the cheaper solution.

CrossBow
08-25-2020, 01:21 PM
For me the MODE ticked the right boxes since it gives options on what storage medium to use. And at least in the case of the SATA and SD , you can use them both. While still not possible to transfer files from the SD to SATA and vice versa, I could see that getting added in future firmware updates for he MODE. But cost wise it came to this for me:

MODE + Shipping = around $220 USD
250GB SSD = $50 USD
Total cost = Around $270USD. But I end up with enough storage to have images of all of my personal library of games with plenty of space left over to add in the future.

If I had gone with a Satiator I would be looking at this:
Satiator = $260 + Shipping
256GB SD Card = $40 - $60 depending on the brand speed etc...
Total cost = $300 -$320.

And while the added convenience of simply sloting the Satiator into the back and still able to use the original drive is excellent. I don't know if that warrants the extra costs to me. Also, while I've not done actual speed comparisons to know, I would think that the SSD in this case will perform faster overall than an SD card would. Then again, I know we are limited to the speeds of the actual interface with the Saturn/Dreamcast in this case. But to me it would be having that option to use either for less price is really cool. Okay so I can't use my discs in that Saturn or Dreamcast. Well, they aren't the only consoles I have. Most of us are collectors and likely have at least 1 if not two spare units? I personally have 3 Saturns and 3 or 4 Dreamcasts but only 1 of each has any modifications to them. The others do not and I still have the disc drives on them to use with actual discs if I want or need.

But I'm the wrong guy about this I guess as my Saturn has a Rhea in it and I've never thought how tragic it is that I can't actually use my physical Saturn game disc in that system.

People own books but then still end up using eReaders or eReader apps on the tablets to read eBooks? What is the difference here exactly?

wowsux133
08-25-2020, 01:38 PM
That's wasteful and stupid. Secondly you could probably repair the disc drive to working order in those junk systems. I think that's what irritates me more with ODEs. All the disc drives being needlessly thrown in the trash instead of being properly serviced. Which is why I think the Satiator is the better idea.
It's not like you have to throw out the drive. I keep all my drives safely stashed away when they get replaced with ODEs, I and many others would never throw away working hardware. That's on the end user, not the ODE itself.


As for price, how much does MODE cost when paired with a decent sized SSD? At that point Satiator's price isn't looking too bad.

Except that point goes completely out the window when you ask the same question for the Satiator. How much does the Satiator cost when paired with a 1TB SD card compared to a MODE with a 1TB SSD (1TB to my knowledge will fit everything)? Either way the Satiator is losing on the cost front.

TrekkiesUnite118
08-25-2020, 01:45 PM
MODE supports multiple storage devices, includung the same one that Satiator uses.

A Satiator + a HiSaturn costs more than MODE + a cheap model of Saturn, but what's the point of saying this?

The only combo worth mentioning is that the MODE supports a cheaper storage format than the Satiator does, which makes it the cheaper solution.

At the cost of being a royal pain in the ass if you still want to use your real discs.

Not to mention the bugs they introduce which can be quite frustrating for people making homebrew, hacks, and translation patches. For example MODE had a recent firmware update where they put things in memory and didn't clean up after themselves. So then people tried to play English Grandia only to have it display garbage every line, because MODE put things in memory that the game normally expects to be cleared at start up. They just today released an update that fixed it, but I still got quite a few frustrating bug reports of people telling me the patch is broken and buggy when I couldn't reproduce it on a real system with an actual CD. And that's just the tip of that iceberg. I get quite a few bug reports from MODE and Fenrir users for things that 9/10 boil down to bugs in the ODE. The MODE people do reach out to me for how to fix the issues, but it's still frustrating dealing with the bug reports and people saying patch is buggy and unstable.

The only one I have not gotten any non-reproducible bug reports from users for is the Satiator. And yes beta testers for the Satiator have been playing the English Grandia patch on it.


It's not like you have to throw out the drive. I keep all my drives safely stashed away when they get replaced with ODEs, I and many others would never throw away working hardware. That's on the end user, not the ODE itself.

Yet the majority of people picking these up are probably not doing that.



Except that point goes completely out the window when you ask the same question for the Satiator. How much does the Satiator cost when paired with a 1TB SD card compared to a MODE with a 1TB SSD (1TB to my knowledge will fit everything)? Either way the Satiator is losing on the cost front.

We're talking maybe a difference of $50 tops when you factor in shipping. And I think the added convenience of how it installs, it works along side the drive, has additional features like backing up and restoring saves, USB Dev support, etc. more than makes up for it.

wowsux133
08-25-2020, 02:15 PM
Yet the majority of people picking these up are probably not doing that.
And we know that for certain? Either way it's not the ODE's fault. It's like blaming the beer for drunk driving.


We're talking maybe a difference of $50 tops when you factor in shipping. And I think the added convenience of how it installs, it works along side the drive, has additional features like backing up and restoring saves, USB Dev support, etc. more than makes up for it.
The MODE is $200 before shipping, the Satiator is $260. If you buy the MODE direct from TO, it's about $236 to America (it's going to be far less from StoneAgeGamer). We don't know the cost of the Satiator yet. For the sake of argument, let's say that the MODE will cost $236 and the Satiator will have free shipping in America, and we'll ignore tax. So a base price of $236 for MODE versus $260 for the Satiator. Now let's get into storage. A 1TB SDD is around $100, depending on brand and type it could be more or less, but you don't need anything fancy for the MODE. The cheapest 1TB SD card available right now on Amazon (that I could find) is $233. Amazon ships for free even without Prime over a certain amount, which is like $35 I believe.

So worst case scenario, A MODE will set you back $236 and a great SSD (Samsung EVO, well beyond what you need for a Saturn) will cost you $140. That's a total of $376. Best case scenario for the Satiator is $260 flat, then $233 for the 1TB Sandisk Extreme, which is a total of $493.

TrekkiesUnite118
08-25-2020, 02:26 PM
SD cards are easily swappable in the Satiator though. Swapping the SSD in your MODE still requires you to open up the Saturn doesn't it? Same with SD cards and USB last I checked. With Satiator you can easily swap cards out, so a 32GB or 64GB SD Card would be fine, as you can just load the games you want to play and then swap ones in and out. Those are only what, $10 last I checked?

wowsux133
08-25-2020, 02:28 PM
SD cards are easily swappable in the Satiator though. Swapping the SSD in your MODE still requires you to open up the Saturn doesn't it? Same with SD cards and USB last I checked. With Satiator you can easily swap cards out, so a 32GB or 64GB SD Card would be fine, as you can just load the games you want to play and then swap ones in and out. Those are only what, $10 last I checked?

Part of one of the 3D printed enclosures for the MODE includes an SD card slot extender so you can do the same, or you can even use a SATA extender if you really want to, the HDD/SSD just needs to fit under the lid. RetroRGB did that with his. But yeah, that is a downside of the MODE otherwise. It's an easy fix, but it's not how it comes.

CrossBow
08-25-2020, 02:39 PM
SD cards are easily swappable in the Satiator though. Swapping the SSD in your MODE still requires you to open up the Saturn doesn't it? Same with SD cards and USB last I checked. With Satiator you can easily swap cards out, so a 32GB or 64GB SD Card would be fine, as you can just load the games you want to play and then swap ones in and out. Those are only what, $10 last I checked?

This is also correct accept that I would argue that adding in an extender either a SATA or SD so that I can access the devices under the lid is still easier than reaching around the back of the console on my shelf trying to feel for the card and slot. And even with extenders added...it is still less expensive in the end.

Also you English patch for Grandia works fine on my Rhea and never had any issues with it that I'm aware of. Then again I haven't updated the patch on it in sometime but yeah. I wasn't aware about the MODE having issues with it because I got my MODE specifically for my Dreamcast and so far the ONLY game I had an issue with not working was that the images I kept making for Volgarr wouldn't work so I did resort to getting an ISO of it off the net but that game offers disc images to make yourself so not a huge issue.

TrekkiesUnite118
08-25-2020, 03:13 PM
This is also correct accept that I would argue that adding in an extender either a SATA or SD so that I can access the devices under the lid is still easier than reaching around the back of the console on my shelf trying to feel for the card and slot. And even with extenders added...it is still less expensive in the end.

Also you English patch for Grandia works fine on my Rhea and never had any issues with it that I'm aware of. Then again I haven't updated the patch on it in sometime but yeah. I wasn't aware about the MODE having issues with it because I got my MODE specifically for my Dreamcast and so far the ONLY game I had an issue with not working was that the images I kept making for Volgarr wouldn't work so I did resort to getting an ISO of it off the net but that game offers disc images to make yourself so not a huge issue.

Fenrir, MODE, and cheap all-in-one pirate Pseudo Saturn carts from China have all had issues with it. Satiator may be expensive and it may have taken a long time, but it seems to be the least rushed to me and as a result is the more appealing Product. MODE is pretty close too to be fair. However I think they may have released it a tad too soon as it seems more focus was put on the Dreamcast side and the Saturn side needed more time in the oven.

eukara
08-25-2020, 05:22 PM
Through the open hole in the tray I was able to put in a 64 GB SanDisk USB drive just fine into the MODE.

zyrobs
08-25-2020, 07:23 PM
Don't forget that the MODE is by a company that has a long track record of releasing such devices, and therefore likely more capital to create larger factory orders, thereby driving the manufacturing costs lower. Satiator is by 1 guy, who had to find the correct company for PCBs, parts assembly, creating the plastic shell, and creating some hardware that can do QA check on the devices - he did that all on his own, while working on his doctorate and while his firstborn arrived. It was stated before that the Satiator costs so much because production is just ramping up right now and he does not have the capital to create a large enough batch. The high prices are there to ensure that he makes enough so creating further batches are easier, driving the prices down eventually.

I don't know why you are arguing about the price for SD cards vs SSDs, a 128gb SD card can already hold more games than you'd bother to play with.
There's also the USB connector on the Satiator, was it mentioned yet what it will be used for? If you can connect storage devices to that, then you can just use a portable USB Drive or a random SATA drive with a sata to usb converter.

wowsux133
08-25-2020, 08:26 PM
I don't know why you are arguing about the price for SD cards vs SSDs, a 128gb SD card can already hold more games than you'd bother to play with.
Because TrekkiesUnite118 brought it up earlier in regards to the cost of the Satiator versus the MODE:


As for price, how much does MODE cost when paired with a decent sized SSD? At that point Satiator's price isn't looking too bad.


There's also the USB connector on the Satiator, was it mentioned yet what it will be used for? If you can connect storage devices to that, then you can just use a portable USB Drive or a random SATA drive with a sata to usb converter.

As far as I'm aware, the USB port is for development. Whether or not you can connect storage devices to it I don't know, but I assume it's just for direct transfer via PC.

gamevet
08-26-2020, 11:25 AM
That's wasteful and stupid. Secondly you could probably repair the disc drive to working order in those junk systems. I think that's what irritates me more with ODEs. All the disc drives being needlessly thrown in the trash instead of being properly serviced. Which is why I think the Satiator is the better idea.

As for price, how much does MODE cost when paired with a decent sized SSD? At that point Satiator's price isn't looking too bad.

And how many Saturns got trashed, because of a dead laser lens?

I have a backup Saturn, just in case my Saturn shits the bed. And a 256GB SSD can be had for $30. Theyíre dirt cheap. Hell, I have a 64GB SSD thatís just been sitting around.

TrekkiesUnite118
08-26-2020, 12:51 PM
And how many Saturns got trashed, because of a dead laser lens?

The difference there is that they usually show up on ebay for repair/parts. And in many cases the drive can be refurbished. And I think Saturn Laser Death might be a bit over exaggerated like a lot of other fear panics going around. My main Saturn I've had since 1996 and it gets played regularly. The Laser and Drive are still going strong as far as I can tell.

gamevet
08-26-2020, 01:36 PM
The difference there is that they usually show up on ebay for repair/parts. And in many cases the drive can be refurbished. And I think Saturn Laser Death might be a bit over exaggerated like a lot of other fear panics going around. My main Saturn I've had since 1996 and it gets played regularly. The Laser and Drive are still going strong as far as I can tell.

Yes, I posted an eBay ad that had one such drive failure and was being sold for cheap.

I have a North American Launch Saturn, that Iíd thought was having laser issues. I had to crack it open and grease the rails with White Lithium Grease to get it working again.

Like I said, Iíd bought a spare (when Iíd thought my Saturn CD laser was dying), so I do have a backup. I also have 2 Dreamcasts, 2 PS3s and 2 Xbox 360s, because you never know with those drive based consoles.

Right now Iím using Psuedo Saturn, and it works great. You really canít beat the price. The Mode is a pretty good option for someone with a dead Saturn CD laser, and itís better than just having it collect dust, or end up being thrown on eBay for little to nothing.

zyrobs
08-26-2020, 04:05 PM
The difference there is that they usually show up on ebay for repair/parts. And in many cases the drive can be refurbished. And I think Saturn Laser Death might be a bit over exaggerated like a lot of other fear panics going around. My main Saturn I've had since 1996 and it gets played regularly. The Laser and Drive are still going strong as far as I can tell.

I went through something like 40-50 saturns and only 2 had dead lasers, one was completely dead and another was on the way out and there was nothing that could be done about it.
The rest either had working lasers, or they just needed to be calibrated or the tray height adjusted.

TrekkiesUnite118
08-26-2020, 10:23 PM
I went through something like 40-50 saturns and only 2 had dead lasers, one was completely dead and another was on the way out and there was nothing that could be done about it.
The rest either had working lasers, or they just needed to be calibrated or the tray height adjusted.

Exactly. It seems this and disc rot are the two most overblown panics going on right now with the Saturn.

wowsux133
08-27-2020, 12:27 AM
Exactly. It seems this and disc rot are the two most overblown panics going on right now with the Saturn.

I feel Saturns are actually some of the most reliable disc drive based consoles of that era, especially compared to the Sega CD and PlayStation.

Team Andromeda
08-27-2020, 03:33 AM
I feel Saturns are actually some of the most reliable disc drive based consoles of that era, especially compared to the Sega CD and PlayStation.

Yes, they are, more so when compared to the crap PS and PS2 lens and early OG Xbox Thomson drives.
I think it's more about the need not to use CD's and have your collection of games all on the storage, able to be selected at a click of a button. Which is not only far more convenient but also great in that you don't need to get those RARE and expensive games out of their cases. I use MODE and its a great product and so far as worked with any game I've looked to play on it.

gamevet
08-27-2020, 11:06 AM
Iíve been thinking about getting a mode for my white Dreamcast.

Team Andromeda
08-27-2020, 11:13 AM
Iíve been thinking about getting a mode for my white Dreamcast.

Its the best thing ever to happen to the DC. The pure joy of not having to put up with the horrible DC loading noise is worth the price alone

eukara
08-27-2020, 09:47 PM
and unlike the GDEMU doesn't leave excess 12V from the PSU dissipating into heat making your DC smell of an electrical fire after half an hour.

CrossBow
08-27-2020, 11:43 PM
and unlike the GDEMU doesn't leave excess 12V from the PSU dissipating into heat making your DC smell of an electrical fire after half an hour.

Althought the MODE is designed to provide a dummy load to the +12, I still removed mine just to be sure. It still ends up running cooler overall without that VR in place since it simply isn't needed once you put one of these ODEs in.

afro man dan
08-30-2020, 06:59 PM
I went through something like 40-50 saturns and only 2 had dead lasers, one was completely dead and another was on the way out and there was nothing that could be done about it.
The rest either had working lasers, or they just needed to be calibrated or the tray height adjusted.


I dunno, both my saturns have dead lasers. I never have had any luck with one of those OEM lasers.

zyrobs
08-30-2020, 07:23 PM
I dunno, both my saturns have dead lasers. I never have had any luck with one of those OEM lasers.

Do you know how to calibrate the pickup?

gamevet
08-30-2020, 07:39 PM
No, and most people don't.

C64 Disk Drives supposedly can go out of alignment, but I'm pretty sure you'd have to drop it, to make that happen. I've thought that mine were out of alignment, until I opened both of them up and gave the heads a thorough cleaning.

TrekkiesUnite118
08-30-2020, 09:42 PM
No, and most people don't.


There's people who offer those kind of services.

gamevet
08-31-2020, 12:28 AM
There's people who offer those kind of services.

$16-$20 shipping (round trip), plus labor. That's probably approaching @ $70- $80.

Sure, they may be able to find a local repair through Craigslist, but that really depends on where they live.

zyrobs
08-31-2020, 10:00 AM
Or you can calibrate it yourself, there are plenty of youtube guides for it, all you need is a multimeter and soldering iron (and you already need an iron to install a new pickup).

gamevet
08-31-2020, 12:54 PM
I can solder, but there are a lot of people that canít.

Iím pretty sure that a lot of them aren't out of alignment and just need the sled rails greased.

TrekkiesUnite118
08-31-2020, 05:52 PM
$16-$20 shipping (round trip), plus labor. That's probably approaching @ $70- $80.

Sure, they may be able to find a local repair through Craigslist, but that really depends on where they live.

$70-$80 isn't bad really with all things considered. Still cheaper than an ODE and the thing will probably last for at least another 10-20 years considering how long it lasted before it started having issues.

zyrobs
08-31-2020, 11:21 PM
$70-$80 isn't bad really with all things considered. Still cheaper than an ODE and the thing will probably last for at least another 10-20 years considering how long it lasted before it started having issues.

It's not that good either since for that price you could get a new used Saturn (console only).
At least you could a few years back, I don't know how the prices go nowadays.

gamevet
08-31-2020, 11:39 PM
The Grey Japanese consoles can be had for @ $60 plus shipping.

*Edit*

I take that back. A scruffy grey Sega Saturn will cost you about $80, while a North American Saturn averages around $100. I got lucky when I got my backup NA Saturn for $65 (Shipped) last year.

Greg2600
09-01-2020, 12:33 AM
https://www.patreon.com/posts/launched-and-etc-41056496


A collection of small updates today ~

Orders have opened for people 0-49 in the queue; you should have received an email, or check the queue manager. I decided to open orders slowly to shake problems out of the logistics chain, which was the right decision - I already got a grumpygram from my logistics person because their customs declarations were coming out with a value of $9999.99! Needless to say, that has been fixed... The first orders have now shipped.
If you are still waiting in the queue, note that your number in the queue manager will not change; the order window will rise to include you when it's your turn.

In other news, I'm beyond impressed that slinga-homebrew has managed to update their savegame manager to support the Satiator, before it even launched! This was entirely based on work in an emulator - I published a fork of Yabause some years ago that provides the Satiator API, though it's now a little out of date. The tool has been tested on real hardware by one of the Satiator beta testers, and even found a little bug in the firmware, which is addressed by a firmware update.

Also in firmware, I've addressed the boot issue I previously mentioned with BIOS 1.00. It turned out that it would get so eager to start up that it'd try reading an emulated disc without first authenticating it, so the CD block would lock out its read attempts... I've worked around this, and booting on BIOS 1.00 is now perfect, just like on 1.01 systems.

Another minor firmware change is that the Satiator now acts as an SD card reader over USB when the Saturn is powered off. This is pretty slow, and is not intended for copying games! - but it is useful for development work on the menu and homebrew. I actually implemented it today because I just moved house and I couldn't find my full-size SD reader, and I desperately needed to get a file on a card to look at slinga's save manager...

So when you get your Satiator and set up your SD card, do make sure to grab the latest firmware!

TrekkiesUnite118
09-01-2020, 04:05 AM
It's not that good either since for that price you could get a new used Saturn (console only).
At least you could a few years back, I don't know how the prices go nowadays.

True, but I'd say it's still not that bad considering if you get it done it will probably last longer than the new used Saturn.

Knuckle Duster
09-01-2020, 09:09 AM
My Saturn's battery just died again, and going to a PS Kai memory cart & AR cart for backup saves of Shining Force 3 S1 has only led to corruption that won't load. Thanks, Obama.

Hopefully the Satiator save management is totally painless and it plays well with PS Kai. I don't want to touch the 4MB cart ever again.

gamevet
09-01-2020, 10:48 AM
Does that happen whenever you change to a different game that requires a save?

It happened to me when I switched from Grandia to Powerslave. Luckily, I made backup save of Grandia to a cart, or I would have lost 2 hours of game time.

zyrobs
09-01-2020, 10:56 AM
Ah, finally, a savegame manager.
Now it only needs an option to dump the full cart into one file, as well as restore it. Partially because I don't want to copy 100 files one by one, but also because from there it's a minor jump to dump any location from memory into the SD Card (bios, ROM carts, etc).


True, but I'd say it's still not that bad considering if you get it done it will probably last longer than the new used Saturn.

Yeah but for some people using a screwdriver alone is too complex of a task, using a soldering iron and a multimeter is straight up wizardry.

Knuckle Duster
09-01-2020, 11:28 AM
Does that happen whenever you change to a different game that requires a save?

It happened to me when I switched from Grandia to Powerslave. Luckily, I made backup save of Grandia to a cart, or I would have lost 2 hours of game time.

It only happened because I made backups, and I did it with 2 different carts. The backups I made won't load in the game, when you move them back to the internal memory.

TrekkiesUnite118
09-01-2020, 01:42 PM
Ah, finally, a savegame manager.
Now it only needs an option to dump the full cart into one file, as well as restore it. Partially because I don't want to copy 100 files one by one, but also because from there it's a minor jump to dump any location from memory into the SD Card (bios, ROM carts, etc).

There is a an app someone made recently on SegaXtreme that allows you to back up saves via the Audio Output of the system. Though to restore you need to make a disc with Psuedo Saturn.

I've been brainstorming about making an App that would work with the Netlink Modem to allow people to upload and download saves to and from a database.

Knuckle Duster
09-01-2020, 03:44 PM
Hopefully the Satiator queue moves along and I can drop the 320+ CAD on this thing before the end of the month. I expect the country to fall apart and our currency to devalue a bit soon after.

gamevet
09-01-2020, 04:04 PM
$320!

Passes out onto the floor.

Knuckle Duster
09-01-2020, 05:13 PM
$320!

Passes out onto the floor.

Yeah, that's after the $15 USD discount.

Our dollar is floating around $.75 USD. I expect it to drop when the central bank loses it's grip on the housing market here. It's already printing money by buying back junk mortgages.

Our incompetent Crime Minister Justin Trudeau is scheduled to unload massive, poorly thought out, universal welfare programs on the country when parliament returns at the end of the month. He prorogued and shut down the government last month to stop committees that were investigating his corruption. He will politically leverage those insane programs against the opposition, playing a game of who is holier than thou or more popular when it comes to "helping" people.

Nevermind that their pandemic emergency benefits and programs are set up to punish you if you try to go to work and earn money. Nevermind that all relief and deferral programs around rent, mortgages, etc. are about to expire and banks will come collecting next month; effectively murdering half of small businesses that weren't allowed to operate and earn for the past half a year, and never qualified for any sort of freezing. Our credit will be downgraded (again), our debt will grow exponentially just by the need to spend more and react to the already poorly managed situation.


If the queue doesn't move on the second batch of 1000 units soon, I wouldn't be shocked if Satiator costs me something like $400 + Shipping + Customs + Lost for months in Donald Trump's gloriously efficient USPS. :lol:

Mad Moham
09-01-2020, 06:01 PM
Yeah, that's after the $15 USD discount.

Our dollar is floating around $.75 USD. I expect it to drop when the central bank loses it's grip on the housing market here. It's already printing money by buying back junk mortgages.


Sorry for taking the thread off at a tangent, but I've been showing people the 'Crack shack or Mansion' websites (check them out if you haven't already) whenever some boomer tells me I'm lazy for not already owning a huge house with a big garden and a gated driveway. I expect the mortgage situation to become exactly the same worldwide pretty soon, and I honestly don't know whether to be concerned or to just sit back and laugh at the insanity that we're all in.

gamevet
09-01-2020, 06:05 PM
Please drop the word Boomer from your vocabulary. The people you are referring to are Gen-X, not boomers. It just sounds totally ignorant and retarded.

Mad Moham
09-01-2020, 06:48 PM
Please drop the word Boomer from your vocabulary. The people you are referring to are Gen-X, not boomers. It just sounds totally ignorant and retarded.

You don't know who my social circle is, nor do you know their age range, boomer was the correct term. I can't say I've been lectured about my laziness by anyone from gen-x so far.

zyrobs
09-01-2020, 08:20 PM
There is a an app someone made recently on SegaXtreme that allows you to back up saves via the Audio Output of the system. Though to restore you need to make a disc with Psuedo Saturn.

I've been brainstorming about making an App that would work with the Netlink Modem to allow people to upload and download saves to and from a database.

I know about that app, I'm posting in its thread. Incidentally, dumping as audio is how the King of Fighters 95 ROM cart was dumped by Steve Snake over ten years ago, so it's not a new idea. The problem with dumping through audio is that it's stupid slow and it needs extra scripts running on client side. Dumping to single file is simpler and faster, and now we have the hardware for it.

Madroms made an app a while ago that could load files from CD and copy into memory, it was an extension of the old Save Game Manager app, that was also used for the Dezaemon collection discs. I asked him to throw it together, so I can copy back my saves from corrupted memory cart to a new one: I dumped the flash rom - which it then died - and wrote a parser to get the save files out of the dump, then used Madroms' app to upload the saved files from an iso to a memory cart). I'm not sure if he ever released this application, and it was custom tailored for a specific format that I dumped data as - with separate filename, comment, file date, and other metadata blocks, it gets a bit muddy as to how exactly you store a Saturn save game. Funny story, after I wrote my rudimentary parser, a month later someone wrote a full fledged editor app that could take a memory cart file and copy in/out files in any format specified, with a sector viewer included.


Please drop the word Boomer from your vocabulary. The people you are referring to are Gen-X, not boomers. It just sounds totally ignorant and retarded.
There's quite a lot of political elite currently in power who still belong in the boomer category, the most prominent example being Trump. There's even people in power from the silent generation (!!!), like the Queen of England, and technically also Bernie and Pelosi.
But I don't know which age group that Canadian homosexual falls into.

gamevet
09-01-2020, 10:07 PM
And those Baby Boomers were calling Gen-X lazy and without focus as well. Some things never change.



You don't know who my social circle is, nor do you know their age range, boomer was the correct term. I can't say I've been lectured about my laziness by anyone from gen-x so far.

They were talking about this on the radio about a month ago. The guy was in his mid 40s and his kid used that stupid line on him. He was like, WTF is he talking about? And then went on to talk about how that was the new way for kids to tell older people that they ain't listening. It's lamest line ever and just repeating it makes you sound like a Parrot. Just be your own man.

roce
09-02-2020, 03:58 AM
CAD and AUD seem to be constantly taking hits. I hope you canucks and aussies are not keeping your savings in your local currency.

At least it provided a nice surprise in the other way, when I checked what PSIO would cost. Sticker shock but then converted from AUD it was no longer so bad :P

Knuckle Duster
09-02-2020, 01:15 PM
Please drop the word Boomer from your vocabulary. The people you are referring to are Gen-X, not boomers. It just sounds totally ignorant and retarded.

OK Boomer.

Seriously though. Why? Boomers are a generation. They are blaming Millenials for everything. That's the joke of it.

Boomers curse about them wanting free rides in life, or make comments about school and college tuition. Blaming stupid kids for being lazy. The younger generations say OK boomer in a way to say "OK, shut up, you don't understand, you're confused." to old people that still throw themselves into every situation possible on Facebook and Twitter. I've seen more than a few bombastic old talking heads on American news media preaching and blaming "Millennials" on "Spring Break", carelessly spreading Covid-19 in Florida. And yet there I was shaking my head like: "Fucking boomers... Thinking a generation pushing 40 years old still goes on 'Spring Break' from college."

That whole generation had affordable houses and could go anywhere to get decent work. Their home assets skyrocketed in value, and building a home for 50 grand back in the day might have turned them into millionaires by now if they were in any inflated market. Yet they think the millennials are lazy and don't work hard enough. They think that the inflation in value that they reaped is going to magically repeat itself for their poorer kids that have lower wages, higher costs of education that is more competitive/devalued than ever, higher costs of living on food prices, and who are already priced out of most of the housing market. Boomers don't even know who they are complaining about half the time. Gen-X isn't half as bad in this regard.



On the Satiator front, does anybody know how difficult it will be to enable CCD/IMG/CUE/SUB support? I don't think Prof mentioned supporting it yet and I'm going to prep a hard drive library I can dump onto an SD card.

Knuckle Duster
09-03-2020, 06:26 PM
Anyone using the Satiator yet? My concerns around it are:

Whether or not it will easily support CCD/IMG/CUE backups like a lot of the Japanese stuff that is already kicking around online archives.

How easy or difficult it might be to enable a quick save backup feature that pulls everything out of internal memory and drops it into a brand new folder on root. I just want to reset and dump the saves and not need to worry about the battery dying or micro-managing the contents of the saves.

How it will work with PSKai carts. Will Kai boot first and need a new update flashed? Does Satiator boot first?

UI themes and skins. Will it be eye candy, or eye cancer when using the thing? I just blue screened myself into a headache navigating through the Dreamcast game list on my USB GDROM. I need to lay down now. :lol:

Joe Redifer
09-07-2020, 03:10 AM
Seriously though. Why? Boomers are a generation. They are blaming Millenials for everything. That's the joke of it.

Boomers curse about them wanting free rides in life, or make comments about school and college tuition. Blaming stupid kids for being lazy. The younger generations say OK boomer in a way to say "OK, shut up, you don't understand, you're confused." to old people that still throw themselves into every situation possible on Facebook and Twitter. I've seen more than a few bombastic old talking heads on American news media preaching and blaming "Millennials" on "Spring Break", carelessly spreading Covid-19 in Florida. And yet there I was shaking my head like: "Fucking boomers... Thinking a generation pushing 40 years old still goes on 'Spring Break' from college."

That whole generation had affordable houses and could go anywhere to get decent work. Their home assets skyrocketed in value, and building a home for 50 grand back in the day might have turned them into millionaires by now if they were in any inflated market. Yet they think the millennials are lazy and don't work hard enough. They think that the inflation in value that they reaped is going to magically repeat itself for their poorer kids that have lower wages, higher costs of education that is more competitive/devalued than ever, higher costs of living on food prices, and who are already priced out of most of the housing market. Boomers don't even know who they are complaining about half the time. Gen-X isn't half as bad in this regard.

LOL. OK Boomer.

"OK boomer" has simply become a way to lazily dismiss anything anyone says without providing an argument why their statement may be in error. That was not the original intent, but that's the way it is now.

zyrobs
09-08-2020, 01:20 AM
LOL. OK Boomer.

"OK boomer" has simply become a way to lazily dismiss anything anyone says without providing an argument why their statement may be in error. That was not the original intent, but that's the way it is now.

I prefer "Cool story, bro".

Mad Moham
09-08-2020, 11:51 AM
LOL. OK Boomer.

"OK boomer" has simply become a way to lazily dismiss anything anyone says without providing an argument why their statement may be in error. That was not the original intent, but that's the way it is now.

So how exactly is one supposed to refer to those of the Boomer generation?

I'm not changing the way I speak, Boomer is a generation in the same way that Gen-X is a generation and Millennial is a generation. If some prick who grew up in a time when property was cheap and career opportunities were plentiful wants to lecture me on how I'm lazy because he'd already paid off the mortgage and got married by the time he was 25, then the chances are he's a Boomer and he doesn't understand how the world works now.

Knuckle Duster
09-08-2020, 12:03 PM
Kids these days.

:lol:

Centrale
09-08-2020, 12:40 PM
These "generations" are mostly fictions, as you can plainly tell that there is no sharp dividing line between the life experiences of, say, a "gen x" born in 1978 and a "millennial" born in 1982, or whatever. Choose any of the boundaries of these so-called generations. Variations in technological, cultural and economic factors can be found, but it's all within a continuum and didn't hinge on some sort of epoch that began on Jan. 1, 1980, or whatever year.

But as to the specifics of the "ok boomer" dismissal, to me it is a statement of exasperation for the fact that there are these people who are now willfully obtuse and feel they have earned the right to refuse to continue to learn. "Ok boomer" essentially means, now we are just waiting for your kind to die off so you no longer have any power to prevent us from taking action that makes the world a better place. But any such generalization is naturally offensive to the ones who do not fit the stereotype. Ultimately it takes a different kind of engagement to affect real change, so these conveniences of generations and generalizations are mostly self-defeating ways of blowing off some steam, even if kernels of truth can be found here and there.

Mad Moham
09-08-2020, 01:17 PM
I posted this earlier then deleted it. But my local radio station ran a piece on Boomers vs Millennials last year and it was hilarious to hear Boomers phoning in and explaining that they worked hard for the $6000 they paid for their first home, only for Millennials to call in and be shot down for saying that they can't even afford a home and are still living with parents.

There's no way anyone genuinely believes that there's no difference in mentality and economic opportunity between generations. Its likely that people just ignore the differences until they are affected by it themselves.

gamevet
09-10-2020, 07:19 PM
OK Boomer.

Seriously though. Why? Boomers are a generation. They are blaming Millenials for everything. That's the joke of it.

Boomers curse about them wanting free rides in life, or make comments about school and college tuition. Blaming stupid kids for being lazy. The younger generations say OK boomer in a way to say "OK, shut up, you don't understand, you're confused." to old people that still throw themselves into every situation possible on Facebook and Twitter. I've seen more than a few bombastic old talking heads on American news media preaching and blaming "Millennials" on "Spring Break", carelessly spreading Covid-19 in Florida. And yet there I was shaking my head like: "Fucking boomers... Thinking a generation pushing 40 years old still goes on 'Spring Break' from college."

That whole generation had affordable houses and could go anywhere to get decent work. Their home assets skyrocketed in value, and building a home for 50 grand back in the day might have turned them into millionaires by now if they were in any inflated market. Yet they think the millennials are lazy and don't work hard enough. They think that the inflation in value that they reaped is going to magically repeat itself for their poorer kids that have lower wages, higher costs of education that is more competitive/devalued than ever, higher costs of living on food prices, and who are already priced out of most of the housing market. Boomers don't even know who they are complaining about half the time. Gen-X isn't half as bad in this regard.



On the Satiator front, does anybody know how difficult it will be to enable CCD/IMG/CUE/SUB support? I don't think Prof mentioned supporting it yet and I'm going to prep a hard drive library I can dump onto an SD card.

Boomers are my parents, with my mother passing away in 2011 at the age of 67, after a short battle against Cancer. My dad turned 76 last december. I'm part of Gen-X at the age of 52.

Their houses were no more affordable for them, than a house is for you today. We lived in an old house back in the early 80s, that my parents picked up (Montana) for $38,000. That was during a time when my dad had what you'd call a good job, at $12 an hour (@ $38K a year) and my mom really didn't have a job. I bought our new home back in 2004 for $138,000. It's value has now jumped up to over $200,000, because of the growing economy in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I was only making about $40K a year and combined with my wife's income, around $70K. You can get in a house, with what is called a 1st time buyer's discount, where the down payment is waived. We only had to pay the processing fees, which were under $2,000. Our house payment, with insurance rolled in, was only $100 more than we were paying for rent, when we lived in a 1,200 square feet apartment.

I went to a tech school for a degree in the Applied science of Electronics. I didn't get a high paying job, right out of school. As a matter of fact, I ended up in a field that was not really what my schooling had trained me for. I ended up in the Network/telecommunications field, where I'd be installing fiber optic and copper network backbone services, along with the internal network cabling for businesses. It wasn't until about 10 years later, that I got out of most of that stuff and ended up in the service field, where I install the hardware and troubleshoot many different issues. I keep telling these younger guys that there is no money in pulling cable. They need to learn all of the other things that are involved with running a companies entire network. That's where the money is and I pretty much learned all of it on the job, with about 30% of it being figured out by myself.

Okay Boomer is a copout.

I look at my latin brothers at my work place and some of them are the hardest workers. They didn't have much in South America/Mexico, so are always eager to earn as much money for their family and work the extra hours to live the American Dream, which seems to be lost on a pampered American generation that never faced adversity.

Black_Tiger
09-10-2020, 08:05 PM
If your Mother didn't need to have a job for your family to afford a house then they did have it easier than people do today.

Mad Moham
09-10-2020, 08:31 PM
If your Mother didn't need to have a job for your family to afford a house then they did have it easier than people do today.

Exactly.
When I was still in school it was quite normal in my hometown to see families where the father worked full time, the mother looked after the home full time and they all lived in a house they owned. That living arrangement has become extremely rare now in my hometown and instead its now normal for both parents to work and the family are either renting a home or are living in a small apartment. There's always exceptions obviously.



Their houses were no more affordable for them, than a house is for you today. We lived in an old house back in the early 80s, that my parents picked up (Montana) for $38,000. That was during a time when my dad had what you'd call a good job, at $12 an hour (@ $38K a year) and my mom really didn't have a job.

I had this exact conversation with one of my parent's Boomer neighbors. The Boomer generation could buy a decent house for the equivalent of 1-3 years salary of a single person. There aren't many places where that's possible now and by the time I moved out of my hometown a few years ago it had reached the point where a single person needed about 8-10 years salary to buy an apartment (and no I'm not exaggerating).
There have been plenty of Boomers lecturing me on: "When I bought my first house". Yeah, when you bought your first 'house'. Not many people are buying a house as their first home now though. I'm one of the lucky ones who has been able to relocate and get my own place in a relatively affordable area, but most millennials can't do that.

gamevet
09-10-2020, 08:47 PM
If your Mother didn't need to have a job for your family to afford a house then they did have it easier than people do today.

She occasionally had a job. She ran a paper route at night, which I'd sometimes ride along with her.

We did not have it easy. We didn't have new cars, or expensive clothes. I had to make my single pair of tennis shoes last for the whole year, and what clothes we got at the beginning of the school year, was all we got. It was a small town as well, so I really didn't have any jobs until my senior year of High School. It was all the motivation I needed to get out of the house and make money once I graduated. I did not like being poor. I worked my ass off for 3 years, while I attended tech school in Phoenix. I had to work 40 hours a week, along with about 20 hours of school. There wasn't a summer vacation either.

I had friends that had both parents working to afford a home, and their homes were a hell of a lot newer than that house from the 60s that we lived in. We did not live in a very nice house, or a town with a great economy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libby,_Montana



Exactly.

I had this exact conversation with one of my parent's Boomer neighbors. The Boomer generation could buy a decent house for the equivalent of 1-3 years salary of a single person. There aren't many places where that's possible now and by the time I moved out of my hometown a few years ago it had reached the point where a single person needed about 8-10 years salary to buy an apartment (and no I'm not exaggerating).
There have been plenty of Boomers lecturing me on: "When I bought my first house". Yeah, when you bought your first 'house'. Not many people are buying a house as their first home now though. I'm one of the lucky ones who has been able to relocate and get my own place in a relatively affordable area, but most millennials can't do that.

I bought my house for just a little over 3 years of my salary and after inflation(2004-2020), my house is still 3 times the value of my salary. Things haven't changed much. I'll put it this way. What my dad made back in the early 80s, is now what a shift manager makes at McDonalds.

The economy in the 70's was shit. They actually had it a lot worse than even people during the economic collapse 8 years ago.

wowsux133
09-10-2020, 09:39 PM
What's up with all this Boomer/Gen-Xer/Millennial talk? I don't really want to reveal my age (technically... I'm a Zoomer, that's all you'll get from me), but damn is it annoying to listen to each generation rag on each other based on generalizations. No, not all boomers are entitled. No, not all Gen Xers are apathetic. No, not all Millennials are lazy bums. No, not all of Gen Z likes to eat detergent.

As someone who's not a Boomer or Millennial, I can safely say that I have equally found some people from both generations to be insufferable twats for different reasons. It's often my generation that pulls the "OK Boomer" and Karen crap. Every generation has it's issues. Blaming all the problems of the world on another gen isn't going to fix anything.

Knuckle Duster
09-10-2020, 09:47 PM
OK Zoomer.

wowsux133
09-10-2020, 09:54 PM
OK Zoomer.

Saw that one coming.

Mad Moham
09-10-2020, 10:04 PM
I bought my house for just a little over 3 years of my salary and after inflation(2004-2020), my house is still 3 times the value of my salary. Things haven't changed much. I'll put it this way. What my dad made back in the early 80s, is now what a shift manager makes at McDonalds.

The economy in the 70's was shit. They actually had it a lot worse than even people during the economic collapse 8 years ago.


Come to my hometown, I'd love to see what you can afford for three years salary. Unless you're a hedgefund manager, or you enjoy living out of a storage unit, you won't get much.

gamevet
09-11-2020, 01:00 AM
Come to my hometown, I'd love to see what you can afford for three years salary. Unless you're a hedgefund manager, or you enjoy living out of a storage unit, you won't get much.

That happens to a lot of places, when an economy booms and people start charging more for property. You're talking about an isolated region, that does not represent everywhere.

The Dallas/Ft.Worth area has seen massive growth in the last 10 years. I bought my house in what was once a small town of 18,000. It has now grown to nearly 50,000 in 15 years, and the prices of houses have doubled. Frisco, North of Plano/Dallas, was isolated pockets of houses and farmland. Now, it's one of the fastest growing areas in the whole metroplex and houses are expensive there. Jerry Jones even moved the Cowboys headquarters to the area, along with a lot of major corporations. Anyone that had bought land there 15 years ago, is now raking in the dough, because their property values have increased over 100%.

Mad Moham
09-11-2020, 07:29 AM
That happens to a lot of places, when an economy booms and people start charging more for property. You're talking about an isolated region, that does not represent everywhere.

The Dallas/Ft.Worth area has seen massive growth in the last 10 years. I bought my house in what was once a small town of 18,000. It has now grown to nearly 50,000 in 15 years, and the prices of houses have doubled. Frisco, North of Plano/Dallas, was isolated pockets of houses and farmland. Now, it's one of the fastest growing areas in the whole metroplex and houses are expensive there. Jerry Jones even moved the Cowboys headquarters to the area, along with a lot of major corporations. Anyone that had bought land there 15 years ago, is now raking in the dough, because their property values have increased over 100%.


You're living in a fantasy land. Its quite well known that in most of the Western world property values have been climbing much faster than incomes. But because you seem to live in the one part of the world where your income has increased at the same rate as house values, you think Boomers didn't have it easy.
My hometown hasn't seen any major change to economic opportunities, the biggest change has been Boomers buying up all the property in the hope that they can use it to pay for retirement. And I've seen the same pattern in a lot of towns now.

Joe Redifer
09-13-2020, 06:54 PM
damn is it annoying to listen to each generation rag on each other based on generalizations. No, not all boomers are entitled. No, not all Gen Xers are apathetic. No, not all Millennials are lazy bums. No, not all of Gen Z likes to eat detergent.

^^ EXACTLY! Generalizations are bad. It's how all forms of intolerance grows. Once you begin generalizing based on things out of a person's control (age, race, etc) then YOU become the bad guy.

BTW I am looking forward to trying the Satiator.

Baloo
09-14-2020, 03:56 PM
Thanks all for the heads-up on this Satiator. I'm going to try to find myself one of these. Haven't had a Saturn in years but seems like a good reason to own one now.

MushaAleste
09-26-2020, 12:07 AM
Please drop the word Boomer from your vocabulary. The people you are referring to are Gen-X, not boomers. It just sounds totally ignorant and retarded.

That always has me scratch my head too. Its so fucking retarded.

Greg2600
11-18-2020, 09:15 PM
https://www.patreon.com/posts/big-batch-exfat-43392797

Latest Patreon Update:

Planning a big batch to be manufactured and ready by end of November. Should suffice for all Patreon supporters to buy. General release would follow that.

Added exFAT support.

Added Action Replay support.

cleeg
11-19-2020, 03:37 PM
I was defo going to get one of these, and am still really interested, but... I found myself in the situation where my brother asked me to sort him out with a Saturn. Knowing he is a space saver type I opted to give him mine with its Rhea and region free mod. So now I've got a Japanese Saturn's innards in a PAL shell plus a replacement 240v PSU on the way from eBay, and I've plumped for a MODE.

I'm looking forward to it, but I'll miss the Rhea, I think I was among the first to have one fitted (it was my console in the VGP review) and I like the way it works so well, albeit with a bit of faff. With the MODE on the way, and with my other Saturn and its modchip I just don't need the Satiator anymore. But still, I'd love to try one; I had planned on putting it in my disc drive unit.

Armoured Priest
12-24-2020, 12:37 AM
I have my Satiator ordered and it's on it's way. I should get it on Tuesday.

The orders were opened up to everyone who was pre-approved on the Patreon, so once these 950-1000 are sorted there should be about 200 left over from the first big run for people who want to order one.

After those are out, he'll probably to to gauge interest to see how many he should keep on hand for orders.


Update: Got it. Works pretty well once I parsed out exactly the file lay out I needed.

Direct connection to the TV works great.

Connecting through the retrotink and elgato...way more finicky...but I did ultimately get it to work.

Greg2600
01-16-2021, 10:26 PM
Preorder avail to general public

https://twitter.com/prof_abrasive/status/1350617747286200321

roce
01-17-2021, 04:15 AM
Greg2600, I appreciate that you've been posting updates.

Virtua Hunter
01-18-2021, 10:37 AM
good to know, but he need to cut the price at least in half to start to being reasonable.

The irony is part of the price is due to the packaging too, and that box is ugly...

xelement5x
01-18-2021, 01:39 PM
$260 is pretty reasonable since there's no disassembly of the Saturn required. It'll be interesting to see how well it supports everything long term though. This is the kind of product where I'll probably wait until several years later to pick one up to make sure any issues are fully ironed out, since no one has ever done this before.

Greg2600
01-18-2021, 05:00 PM
good to know, but he need to cut the price at least in half to start to being reasonable.

The irony is part of the price is due to the packaging too, and that box is ugly...

:confused: The box is not the reason. The price is due to his choosing to have it assembled fully by professionals in California. As a result to what are surely higher overheard, they also require a bigger down payment. That's why he's had to seek a higher price to pay down that down. If he lowered the price in the future, I can't see it getting near 200, it's just what it is.

Virtua Hunter
01-19-2021, 11:16 AM
:confused: The box is not the reason. The price is due to his choosing to have it assembled fully by professionals in California. As a result to what are surely higher overheard, they also require a bigger down payment. That's why he's had to seek a higher price to pay down that down. If he lowered the price in the future, I can't see it getting near 200, it's just what it is.

Yeah of course it's only a little part.
I remember Abrasive saying that packaging wasn't cheap, when you have an already ridicolous price, you can certainly cut on the useless things like packaging.
What I find funny is that the box make it feels more like a cheap chinese bootleg rather than a quality product.

In the end at that price it's a niche solution to an already niche market.
Hope there will be other similar and cheaper solutions in a near future.

Greg2600
01-20-2021, 03:41 PM
Yeah of course it's only a little part.
I remember Abrasive saying that packaging wasn't cheap, when you have an already ridicolous price, you can certainly cut on the useless things like packaging.
What I find funny is that the box make it feels more like a cheap chinese bootleg rather than a quality product.

In the end at that price it's a niche solution to an already niche market.
Hope there will be other similar and cheaper solutions in a near future.

MODE is cheaper, though I would suggest one of the Laser Bear brackets and SD card extenders, so you don't have to keep reopening the system or whatever. That makes the prices pretty on par. Fenrir is obviously WAY cheaper, but I don't know a ton about the compatibility. Abrasive has updated his firmware dozens of times already, and the MODE is being supported pretty well.