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View Full Version : So, Virtua Fighter 3 on Dreamcast was basically arcade perfect?



Orchid87
05-01-2018, 12:09 PM
I never played the arcade version myself but I've just stumbled upon this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJsdwrrOoTg

It looks almost the same. Somehow, I remember people dismissing the port as not doing justice to the glorious arcade version. Was it some kind of elitism? Or there are really some differences that are not noticeable on the first sight, like botched controls.

Team Andromeda
05-01-2018, 12:14 PM
All but, like I always said its an internet myth that it wasn't nearly perfect; That like with no good 3D Sonic game, Working Designs, Capcom, Call Of Duty hate people just copy and paste.

bultje112
05-01-2018, 02:32 PM
I never played the arcade version myself but I've just stumbled upon this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJsdwrrOoTg

It looks almost the same. Somehow, I remember people dismissing the port as not doing justice to the glorious arcade version. Was it some kind of elitism? Or there are really some differences that are not noticeable on the first sight, like botched controls.

it was utter bullshit. the reason the game got flak in 99 when it was released in the rest of the world was because it didn't look good compared to sonic adventure, soul calibur and pretty much anything released on dreamcast. but that's not because it was a bad port, but simply because virtua fighter 3 on model in the arcades was weak compared to the naomi board on the dreamcast so virtua fighter 3 in the arcade didn't look better and it wasn't a remake either, like soul calibur turned out to be somewhat.

Black_Tiger
05-01-2018, 02:58 PM
I remember that it was little things about the graphics, like how some people can't handle bits of the floor in the background popping in and out in Virtua Fighter for Saturn. Didn't the DC version take a hit in texture quality as well?

These two versions of VF3 do look different in person though. The imperfections were noticeable to me at the time and I wasn't a fan and didn't spend much time with either version.

Watching both versions emulated by computers from decades in the future isn't a good way to judge.

bultje112
05-01-2018, 06:13 PM
I remember that it was little things about the graphics, like how some people can't handle bits of the floor in the background popping in and out in Virtua Fighter for Saturn. Didn't the DC version take a hit in texture quality as well?

These two versions of VF3 do look different in person though. The imperfections were noticeable to me at the time and I wasn't a fan and didn't spend much time with either version.

Watching both versions emulated by computers from decades in the future isn't a good way to judge.

they aren't emulated in the videos.

Team Andromeda
05-01-2018, 07:49 PM
I remember that it was little things about the graphics, like how some people can't handle bits of the floor in the background popping in and out in Virtua Fighter for Saturn. Didn't the DC version take a hit in texture quality as well?.

The floor was a glitch and bug, same for the shadow clitch, hardly because the DC couldn't handle the game. People also moaned at a lack of Vs option in the Japanese version, overlooking thats how the Arcade version played, where the 2nd player needed to press start to enter Vs mode

The game was all but perfect.

zyrobs
05-01-2018, 08:14 PM
it was utter bullshit. the reason the game got flak in 99 when it was released in the rest of the world was because it didn't look good compared to sonic adventure, soul calibur and pretty much anything released on dreamcast. but that's not because it was a bad port, but simply because virtua fighter 3 on model in the arcades was weak compared to the naomi board on the dreamcast so virtua fighter 3 in the arcade didn't look better and it wasn't a remake either, like soul calibur turned out to be somewhat.

It's not even the power of the arcade machine (Soul Calibur ran on a souped up PSX and the DC version ended up looking worlds apart); VF3 was a 1996 game. Compared to Soul Calibur and later Tekken Tag (both which stole a lot of gameplay from it), it just looked and played dated. It didn't help that it was the most experimental game in the VF series either.

Team Andromeda
05-01-2018, 08:36 PM
It's not even the power of the arcade machine (Soul Calibur ran on a souped up PSX and the DC version ended up looking worlds apart); VF3 was a 1996 game. Compared to Soul Calibur and later Tekken Tag (both which stole a lot of gameplay from it), it just looked and played dated. It didn't help that it was the most experimental game in the VF series either.

Soul Calibur was a remake, VF 3tb was a simple Arcade port. In 1998 there was nothing to touch VF on any home system and Genki did all that was asked of them and that was to port the game to the home. I’m sure if given the task to remake VF3, they would have like they did for Daytona USA 2001.

Black_Tiger
05-01-2018, 09:02 PM
they aren't emulated in the videos.

How do you know? They typically use emulation and there's no mention of real hardware in the description or the google translation of their large comment about the port.

The translation agrees that the graphics took a hit, but argues that it was still impressive when it came out.



Even their TV screen comparison is emulation:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLX7zb2YAqI

Barone
05-02-2018, 04:20 AM
DC version is by no means arcade perfect and it looks drab and dull compared to the original game.

Team Andromeda
05-02-2018, 07:37 AM
DC version is by no means arcade perfect and it looks drab and dull compared to the original game.

That is simply not true and a complete load of tosh


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXysdrbENIM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nphdKx9Omn4

Silanda
05-02-2018, 12:19 PM
Texture quality and certain small details took a hit in the Dreamcast version, but for a launch title I've always thought it was a pretty decent port. It ran at a higher resolution than the arcade version too.

Barone
05-02-2018, 07:02 PM
That is simply not true and a complete load of tosh
Texture quality, lighting, geometry, animation, etc. Downgraded.

It's "not true" for you since you're a blind fanboy and can't conceive any other perspective.

OverDrone
05-02-2018, 11:47 PM
I don't think Fighting Vipers 2 was perfect either.

Team Andromeda
05-03-2018, 01:16 AM
Texture quality, lighting, geometry, animation, etc. Downgraded.

It's "not true" for you since you're a blind fanboy and can't conceive any other perspective.

Coming from one who's endlessly trying to bash the Snes and cheer on the MD, that's irony at its peak as is liking emu footage of MD and SNES games . It's quite clear it's all but perfect as the footage shows (non emu btw) There's the odd missing detail, but that's it. Every Arcade port back in the day was downgraded (non-Neo) even NA@MI ports, given the DC lack of Ram, but one would be hard pushed to see any difference and the difference with VF3 port is tiny.
Plus I really don't know where you get better lighting, much less more drab and dull from; given the vibrant and clear image the DC would pump out, Think you should go back and play your DC in VGA and see VF3tb running, The only major stand out diff was the more blocky and low res background plane.

Barone
05-03-2018, 06:04 AM
Coming from one who's endlessly trying to bash the Snes and cheer on the MD, that's irony at its peak as is liking emu footage of MD and SNES games . It's quite clear it's all but perfect as the footage shows (non emu btw) There's the odd missing detail, but that's it. Every Arcade port back in the day was downgraded (non-Neo) even NA@MI ports, given the DC lack of Ram, but one would be hard pushed to see any difference and the difference with VF3 port is tiny.
Plus I really don't know where you get better lighting, much less more drab and dull from; given the vibrant and clear image the DC would pump out, Think you should go back and play your DC in VGA and see VF3tb running, The only major stand out diff was the more blocky and low res background plane.
You're such a clueless moron. Shut up.

You can't stand people having opinions or stating facts that go against your blatant fanboyism. Quit your stirring shit routine; nobody is talking about SNES and MD here.
I just answered to the OP, try to live with that.

Team Andromeda
05-03-2018, 06:29 AM
You're such a clueless moron. Shut up.

You can't stand people having opinions or stating facts that go against your blatant fanboyism. Quit your stirring shit routine; nobody is talking about SNES and MD here.
I just answered to the OP, try to live with that.

It's clear that you can't and no insults please .

BonusKun
05-03-2018, 08:43 AM
Why am I getting a reported post about this thread? If you seriously can't handle arguing with each other then I suggest you put each other on ignore and move on with your lives. This kind of petty crap doesn't need me to step in to do anything when people are capable of acting like adults.

Barone
05-03-2018, 08:54 AM
I'm pretty sure I didn't start it. I simply replied to the OP; didn't quote anyone, didn't questioned anyone else's opinion; just stated mine.
Then TA came and shitted all over it for no good reason.
I'm also not the guy trying to bring the 16-bit war to a DC thread.

TrekkiesUnite118
05-03-2018, 09:10 AM
Honestly, I think TA just needs to learn a more effective and mature way to debate these things with people. This situation almost always plays out like this:

TA: "Game/Console A is so amazing and perfect! It's so much better than B."

Someone else: "Well that's not entirely true for reasons X, Y, and Z."

TA: "WTF HATER YOU KNOW NOTHING TAKE THAT BACK! HOW DARE YOU!" *Proceeds to vomit old magazine scans all over the forum*

BonusKun
05-03-2018, 11:52 AM
Honestly, I think TA just needs to learn a more effective and mature way to debate these things with people.

This is what needs to happen more then anything else. Reported posts from people for discussions like this just annoy me slightly. Having a debate is fine but learn to keep an open mind on both sides and everyone can enjoy the discussion without the need to 1up everything.

Team Andromeda
05-03-2018, 11:53 AM
You're such a clueless moron. Shut up.

You can't stand people having opinions or stating facts that go against your blatant fanboyism. Quit your stirring shit routine; nobody is talking about SNES and MD here.
I just answered to the OP, try to live with that.


Why am I getting a reported post about this thread? If you seriously can't handle arguing with each other then I suggest you put each other on ignore and move on with your lives. This kind of petty crap doesn't need me to step in to do anything when people are capable of acting like adults.

Because I was called a Moron and insulted. Now you were quick enough to warn me and look to ban me. Be nice if you stopped the insults coming my way in the interests of fairness.

Team Andromeda
05-03-2018, 12:04 PM
You're such a clueless moron. Shut up.

You can't stand people having opinions or stating facts that go against your blatant fanboyism. Quit your stirring shit routine; nobody is talking about SNES and MD here.
I just answered to the OP, try to live with that.




TA: "WTF HATER YOU KNOW NOTHING TAKE THAT BACK! HOW DARE YOU!" *Proceeds to vomit old magazine scans all over the forum*

Hardly, I had a warning and a telling off and reported, just the other month. So from now on the interests of fairness, I'm reporting any time I get insulted in a thread and expect the mod to sort it out. I never insulted anyone in this thread, not called anyone a hater and just said VF3tb looked all but perfect and produced videos to back it up..Also I'm sure as a DC fan you know and respect how clear and vibrant the DC display is via VGA. VF3tb isn't perfect but the differences are tiny..

On another day you might have agreed, but not today I guess.

BonusKun
05-03-2018, 12:43 PM
Because I was called a Moron and insulted. Now you were quick enough to warn me and look to ban me. Be nice if you stopped the insults coming my way in the interests of fairness.

You could say that but it would be nice if you learned to have a discussion with people instead of...


That is simply not true and a complete load of tosh.

What did you think was going to happen when you said this?

Do you want people to stop "insulting" you? Then stop being a hardass when you walk into threads like this and say, "NO, YOU'RE WRONG!" all the time.

Edit: You were banned that one time because I asked you to stop fucking arguing not once but multiple times and you didn't listen.

You just had to get the last word in. You couldn't help yourself but to constantly reply to make a point nobody cared about that much that I was "forced" to make you stop talking.

Orchid87
05-03-2018, 12:46 PM
So, uhm, where does the truth lie? Are there any actual examples of huge diferences between the versions? Because going by that video they are almost identical.

Barone
05-03-2018, 12:47 PM
Honestly, I think TA just needs to learn a more effective and mature way to debate these things with people. This situation almost always plays out like this:

TA: "Game/Console A is so amazing and perfect! It's so much better than B."

Someone else: "Well that's not entirely true for reasons X, Y, and Z."

TA: "WTF HATER YOU KNOW NOTHING TAKE THAT BACK! HOW DARE YOU!" *Proceeds to vomit old magazine scans all over the forum*
This.
And then he plays the victim card on top of everything.


Anyway, more to what I said and TA fiercely attacked as being "not true and a complete load of tosh":

The DC port was flawed even in the environments. The beach stage in the model 3 version was a sight to behold and it still amazes me till today. If you look at the DC port of the beach stage, the clouds are pixelated and they look horrid compared to the arcade version’s beauty. The res was also lower and the graphics are kinda blurry when compared to the sharp, yet smooth and higher res model 3 version.


Yeah, something really did seem to be off about the background scenery in the beach stage, especially when I played the game on VGA. It looked like a low-res, pixelated bitmap, kind of like the lifeless 2D bitmap backgrounds most PS1/Saturn 3D fighters had back then.


from what I remember in the DC version the character would bounce a bit higher off of some moves, I think that was the main complaint


I know for sure some combos that work on Model 3 version do not work on DC. Also there are combos that only work on the DC version. Most of them were documented, I don’t know where to look for them at the moment.
https://forums.shoryuken.com/t/virtua-fighter-3-tb-underrated-or-garbage/21548



So, uhm, where does the truth lie? Are there any actual examples of huge diferences between the versions? Because going by that video they are almost identical.
In terms of graphics, you really just need to play the beach stage back to back to understand the differences. On the arcade it was really refreshing and impressive.
The DC version lost most of the "wow" factor of the original version graphics IMO.

And the video is emulation-based. Model 3 emulation is not perfect.

BonusKun
05-03-2018, 01:03 PM
Seriously I just wish we could have honest and open debates instead of thread shitting because someone feels that an opinion different from theirs is a travesty and must be challenged to the ends of the earth.

Silanda
05-03-2018, 04:33 PM
So, uhm, where does the truth lie? Are there any actual examples of huge diferences between the versions? Because going by that video they are almost identical.

IMO, without evidence to the contrary, it's probably somewhere in between. There's no debating that the DC version does have significantly downgraded textures (both in variety and resolution it would seem), it has a few minor graphical glitches, and there are possibly some issues with the joints of some of the models. Supposedly the DC models were downgraded in terms of polygon count, but I don't see it so I'd need to see some receipts on that. There are also possibly some gameplay differences, but I don't know the intricacies of the game well enough to say. That being said, it's nowhere near the levels of awful that some people have claimed over the years.

To be honest, I'd like to see someone who's really familiar with the game (and preferably has an arcade board) document the differences, because best as I can tell there are no really good comparisons on the net. Personally, I'm inclined to think that the graphic emulation in current WIP builds of Supermodel is good enough to draw rough comparisons from, but running from a real board would eliminate any doubt. There's been too much said over the years that seems to be based on memories that could be called into question, or comparisons between the DC version and the Model 3 promo video (which looked better than the actual game), and it would be nice to finally put this debate to bed with irrefutable proof.

Team Andromeda
05-03-2018, 05:03 PM
You could say that but it would be nice if you learned to have a discussion with people instead of...

You gave me a warning, for making out someone was an idiot (when all I did was imply) . So in the interest of fairness and impartiality, I expect you do come down on anyone who personally insults people; Calling someone a Moron is insulting and personal attack. So kindly put a stop to it please.


What did you think was going to happen when you said this?

A detailed response telling me how wrong I was and maybe the odd video or picture to back it all up, which is usually what Baron likes to do; even likes to put in markers in some of his pic's pointing out differences or shortcomings like for SEGA Rally on the Saturn and the fanboy banter, which is fair enough
Did not expect to be personally insulted, not least when I never called anyone names or personally insulted attacked anyone. So like I said, you came down hard on me, I'll expect you to do the same, for others who personally insult a fellow member.

So, please put a stop to it.

Team Andromeda
05-03-2018, 05:16 PM
The DC port was flawed even in the environments. The beach stage in the model 3 version was a sight to behold and it still amazes me till today.


I said the main difference was the low res background Plane which looked more blocky than the Arcade version, even this DC fanboy could see that. So looking over that I was also on about how close graphics the game was, not going off any differences in combos, that is a separate matter.
Now back in the day, I use to see VF3 running in the Arcades, my importshop and then play the game on the DC and I could barely see any difference between the 2 versions, even when you had the DC version being played on one side of the shop (import) to the Arcade board via Supergun or whatever .
I've never understood why people single the game out. Playing Sega Rally II in the Arcade to the DC version, you saw big cutbacks and differenes. I never saw that with the DC ports of Getbass, VF3TB, Virtual Striker 2, Virtual On 2 they were very much near spot on ports and in fact I'll go as far to say, that other than slow down the NA@MI port of Model 2 Virtual Striker 2 looks better

Barone
05-03-2018, 06:03 PM
To be honest, I'd like to see someone who's really familiar with the game (and preferably has an arcade board) document the differences, because best as I can tell there are no really good comparisons on the net. Personally, I'm inclined to think that the graphic emulation in current WIP builds of Supermodel is good enough to draw rough comparisons from, but running from a real board would eliminate any doubt. There's been too much said over the years that seems to be based on memories that could be called into question, or comparisons between the DC version and the Model 3 promo video (which looked better than the actual game), and it would be nice to finally put this debate to bed with irrefutable proof.
This.

But here's what I've noticed in these last years: most people don't play these old games thoroughly anymore.
The thread I quoted is from 2007 and by now you'd think this debate would have been ended with a detailed comparison like you said; nah. People want to talk about things they don't know and make bold claims about games they don't play anymore.

TrekkiesUnite118
05-03-2018, 08:55 PM
Well there are these videos from real Model 3 hardware:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihBCn5hfOJQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nphdKx9Omn4

gamevet
05-03-2018, 09:04 PM
I've always thought that the knock on VF3 was that the changes they made to the fighting system weren't liked by a lot of the fans of the Virtua Fighter games. I avoided buying it, after hearing the rather ho hum reviews for the DC game.

Orchid87
05-04-2018, 12:15 AM
BTW, what monitor do you need to play Model 3 board via supergun at home? I guess 15khz TVs won't work with it?

Blades
05-04-2018, 01:34 AM
BTW, what monitor do you need to play Model 3 board via supergun at home? I guess 15khz TVs won't work with it?

Also want to know this.

Team Andromeda
05-04-2018, 03:40 AM
Well there are these videos from real Model 3 hardware:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nphdKx9Omn4

Yeah and that's the video I linked

Now is there much difference between that and this, also running on real Hardware


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXysdrbENIM

Barone
05-04-2018, 05:49 AM
BTW, what monitor do you need to play Model 3 board via supergun at home? I guess 15khz TVs won't work with it?
https://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=10331

Monitor:

Orientation: Horizontal
Type: Raster: Medium Resolution
CRT: Color


https://www.arcade-museum.com/monitor.html#M

MEDIUM RESOLUTION

HORIZONTAL VERTICAL
Scan Frequency: 25.00 KHz Scan Frequency: 60.0 Hz
Scan Period: 40.0 µSec Scan Period: 16.7 mSec
Active Video: 32.0 µSec Active Video: 15.4 mSec
Video Delay: 7.2 µSec Video Delay: 1.2 mSec
Sync Pulse: 4.0 µSec Sync Pulse: 0.2 mSec
Scan Line: 640 Pixels Screen: 416 Lines
Resolution: 512 Pixels Resolution: 384 Lines
Clock Freq: 16.00 MHz


Also: https://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?t=16682

Orchid87
05-04-2018, 06:36 AM
https://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=10331

Monitor:

Orientation: Horizontal
Type: Raster: Medium Resolution
CRT: Color


https://www.arcade-museum.com/monitor.html#M

MEDIUM RESOLUTION

HORIZONTAL VERTICAL
Scan Frequency: 25.00 KHz Scan Frequency: 60.0 Hz
Scan Period: 40.0 µSec Scan Period: 16.7 mSec
Active Video: 32.0 µSec Active Video: 15.4 mSec
Video Delay: 7.2 µSec Video Delay: 1.2 mSec
Sync Pulse: 4.0 µSec Sync Pulse: 0.2 mSec
Scan Line: 640 Pixels Screen: 416 Lines
Resolution: 512 Pixels Resolution: 384 Lines
Clock Freq: 16.00 MHz


Also: https://forum.arcadeotaku.com/viewtopic.php?t=16682

I mean, out of more easily obtainable ones...

Barone
05-04-2018, 07:59 AM
I mean, out of more easily obtainable ones...
What I mean is: it seems that you need a 24 kHz monitor.

BonusKun
05-04-2018, 09:54 AM
A detailed response telling me how wrong I was and maybe the odd video or picture to back it all up, which is usually what Baron likes to do;

You want me to stop it?

Why can't you just stop it yourself?

You keep saying "insulting" over & over like it's going to change the outcome.

Here's the thing I can just suggest which can make all of this just go away.



Stop replying & talking to Barone. You two obviously do not like each other and yet you chose to say something to him in this thread with..


That is simply not true and a complete load of tosh.

You started this. Not him. You know how he is and he knows how you are.

Why you chose to even talk to him knowing full damn well what kind of reply he would give you is beyond me. I can't help but think you want to prove something to him or earn his approval in some strange level of love/hate relationship.

Either way, stop quoting him or replying to him or even talking to him. If you can do that, I'm pretty sure you'll both be happier.

Team Andromeda
05-04-2018, 11:21 AM
You want me to stop it?

Why can't you just stop it yourself? .

No, You are the MOD. You gave me a warning and threatened me with a ban for insulting a fellow member. So please, very kindly stop others from insulting fellow members, like you told me.


You started this. Not him. You know how he is and he knows how you are.

I know you dislike me, but instead of trying to seek and justify a personal insult and attack, just issue a warning and say it's not correct, After all You did it to me, and part of being a MOD is you have to be fair, impartial and also constant.
Barno is always very dismissive of my comments (far more than just saying a load of old tosh) but I don't look to insult him on a personal level.

stu
05-04-2018, 12:10 PM
Barno is always very dismissive of my comments (far more than just saying a load of old tosh) but I don't look to insult him on a personal level.

His name is Barone, why oh why won't you proof read what you post? :daze:

He said you were a "blind fanboy" which is true since you always seem to act that way. You then started your usual attempt at shit stirring by bringing up old disagreements in order to disrupt and derail the thread.

A better course of action would have been to have followed what BonusKun told you, which is not to reply in the 1st place with your "utter tosh" statement, which was a rude and dismissive comment for you to make.

Stop playing the victim.

BonusKun
05-04-2018, 12:38 PM
No, You are the MOD.

That's right a mod job is to stop this crap. And yet I'm giving you the option to stop it on your own. You're a grown adult and you can't just put Barone on Ignore?

Is that so hard for you to do?

Don't go off with the he insulted me crap when you insulted him with with that "utter tosh" comment first.


P.S. I don't dislike you. I just dislike how you're acting right now.

Team Andromeda
05-04-2018, 12:51 PM
He said you were a "blind fanboy" which is true since you always seem to act that way. tatement.
.

I don't play the victim. Just like some people defend and praise the Mega Drive, I do that for the Saturn and DC and if I told by a MOD that posting an insult to a fellow member is wrong and not to be tolerated; Then it should apply across the board and MOD needs to be impartial, fair and consistent. Yes its a pain being a MOD


Let's look at what Barone has to say to people that dare even try to have a debate (not me btw, so I'm not the victim)


Pretty much everything you said in this thread is either partially or completely wrong; or just plain made up bullshit.


Bullshit.

Charming and what a way to encourage a debate.

So lets the bull and also this fanboy nonsense, because It is quite clear when to the MD its a different matter. Somehow then its ok for people defend the system, praise the games and rubbish people comments who dare to find faults or issues with the games or Hardware

Now, What are the main differences between this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXysdrbENIM

And this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nphdKx9Omn4


I'm not seeing many at all, are you ?

BonusKun
05-04-2018, 01:03 PM
So here's the main question.

Why won't you put Barone on ignore?

Blades
05-04-2018, 04:10 PM
I mean, out of more easily obtainable ones...

I'll settle for just 'obtainable.'

Barone
05-04-2018, 07:01 PM
I mean, out of more easily obtainable ones...

What I mean is: it seems that you need a 24 kHz monitor.

I'll settle for just 'obtainable.'
These should help:
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45926
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=118240.0
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=135428.0
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=138291.0
http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=81249.0

Da_Shocker
05-05-2018, 07:49 PM
Barone and TA ya'll be on here for 8 years I just don't know what else to say :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Wasn't the main issue with VF3TB was that it was a rushed port? I'm pretty sure that a running theme with Sega back then was rushing games before they were ready. VF 1 and to a certain extent 2 were rushed out. And we all know how Doom turned out.

Team Andromeda
05-06-2018, 02:58 AM
Wasn't the main issue with VF3TB was that it was a rushed port? I'm pretty sure that a running theme with Sega back then was rushing games before they were ready. VF 1 and to a certain extent 2 were rushed out. And we all know how Doom turned out.

I take it we're on about 32X DOOM being rushed?. Most launch software is rushed out unless you were Nintendo with the Snes, N64 or MS with the OG XBox and while VF3TB was rushed it was still all but perfect.
Its not like the launch software for the Mega Drive was brilliant, Space Harrier II and Super Thunder blade weren't the best, RR V on the PS2 was hardly a blowing away DC games and in terms of content was a massive step down from RR4, Perfect Dark Zero an utter joke on the 360, Killzone 4 on the PS4 utter tosh, 3DO with Crash and Burn and one of the worst ever was Mega CD launch software of Sol feace and Earnest Evans But that's the price of launch software.. Limited time and making the games on brand new hardware and for most of the time development on incomplete development kits and back in the day, most new Harwdare launches in Japan only ever came with about 3 games, one of which would would hope would at least look and sound a big jump over the Previous gen

If people want to talk of combo systems, then I gather VF on the Saturn is 100% perfect, its also better in the Sound dept for sound effects and music, but I hardly say that means its Arcade perfect. For VF3TB on the DC baring some issues with the odd missing polygons and animation of flags or characters clothing, its all but perfect. I know back in the day people even knocked the lack of the Vs mode in the options screen, but that was the case in the Arcade version. Genki was asked to port the game and they did and its about 97% perfect. The differences are tiny. BTW VF II on the Saturn wasn't rushed at all, it was in development for a year, when most SEGA Arcade ports would get 6 to 8 months.

Bottino
05-22-2018, 12:31 PM
The redundant technical discussion ( at this point ) and the fact that the game is not visually on par with the Model 3 version ( which obviously should've been ) helps to cement the misconception that VF3 is inferior to it's competitors at the time, when in fact is the superior 3D fighting game, outclassing both Dead or Alive 2 and Soul Calibur, just to keep things on the Dreamcast arena; it simply lacks that 'wow' factor, the gorgeous presentation ( especially in SC's case ) and a bunch of different modes and unlockables that people seem to like so much ( well, I like them too to an extend, but 'content' is not a factor that makes a game automatically better ).

However, once you get pass that, it's very clear to me that VF3 is the undisputed champion, as it always has been with the VF series. That's why it never needed to resort in adding a huge roster of character, bouncing boobs and panty shots, having story modes etc - as a pure 3D fighting game experience, that's where it is.

NO BUTTON MASHING ALLOWED.

In fact, I find VF3tb to be the most satisfying 3D fighting game to play even to this day - it's the most complex VF game ( the sequels simplified things quite a bit, especially VF5 ), has good deal of balance between it's characters ( a huge improvement over VF2 ) and the E button combined with the uneven arenas ( which aren't simply a gimmick ) adds a special layer of challenge and excitement to the matches, since controlling the 'maai' is a gauntlet in itself.

In that regard, the VF series is the one that has better managed to capture the martial arts 'spirit' ( in a lack of a better term and floating jumps aside hehe ) without losing the appeal of a fighting game.

Fighting and improving your game against the CPU even in the harder difficulties actually makes you feel like you're accomplishing something, using your moves and combos to overcome the ever-adapting AI, instead of just spamming the same moves over and over again.

Also, despite the graphic imperfections that are particular to the DC version, the craftsmanship and artistic excellency of the arenas are very nicely complemented by the the soundtrack (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weUPCmxhIHY), a personal favorite of mine.

This game gets a bad rep in the west for no good reason, other than people that casually played the game and dismissed for the lack of the aforementioned 'wow' factor.
Soul Calibur 10/10 ? Better than VF3, Third Strike or Garou ? I suppose for people that like to orgasm over teh graphicz...

And yes, I ignored Tekken deliberately.

Leynos
07-09-2018, 02:37 AM
EGM or was it Next Gen Magazine that was hyping up the graphics of this game and they sure did look amazing then. Then I saw Soul Calibur lol. I guess VF3 did take a small hit which is interesting when SC looked better than the arcade and better looking than VF3. My blind fanboyism can never not be impressed by Dreamcast games visuals. Maybe it's the Aspergers talking but the crisp colorful visuals just make me smile and only recently some games made by a certain publisher reminded me of those games. SEGA did it again early 7th gen with Rally Revo and VF5. I also don't feel VF3 is as badas people say. I quite enjoyed it.

Jeckidy
07-12-2018, 02:49 PM
I'm a Virtua Fighter fan and can play any game in the series including the first. However, it wasn't until fairly recently that I began to appreciate the series. Did anyone notice that Ryo from Shenmue employes some of the Virtua Fighter moves in the game? I seem to recall him using the palm thrust attack that Akira Yuki does in VF.

Leynos
07-12-2018, 05:21 PM
I'm a Virtua Fighter fan and can play any game in the series including the first. However, it wasn't until fairly recently that I began to appreciate the series. Did anyone notice that Ryo from Shenmue employes some of the Virtua Fighter moves in the game? I seem to recall him using the palm thrust attack that Akira Yuki does in VF.
Dude, Shenmue was originally a Virtua Fighter RPG. Ryo was Akira in the Saturn version. It was later that changed it into a new IP. The Virtua Fighter like moves is deliberate.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ6-QRThA8A

Jeckidy
07-12-2018, 08:58 PM
Dude, Shenmue was originally a Virtua Fighter RPG. Ryo was Akira in the Saturn version. It was later that changed it into a new IP. The Virtua Fighter like moves is deliberate

Oh, a Virtua Fighter RPG? The idea that eventually became Virtua Quest on PS2/GC! :D

Leynos
07-12-2018, 09:21 PM
I try to forget that game exists.

Blades
07-15-2018, 01:20 AM
I'm a Virtua Fighter fan and can play any game in the series including the first. However, it wasn't until fairly recently that I began to appreciate the series. Did anyone notice that Ryo from Shenmue employes some of the Virtua Fighter moves in the game? I seem to recall him using the palm thrust attack that Akira Yuki does in VF.

https://tfui5g.by.files.1drv.com/y4mf17QTh-90zey_JwnSW44zF62P4W9_zfZwGaX-QKDye9YLuMrMGA3pYu0GGBimR7Ps1eFv3mXJFUNJpTMw8uyCf9 HWPo8_WfF5ZPpeNH3_3bwXno8TUoeHwhtYeTK3pLsfiJT2aC8z GSY9frFfR60vG90c2RDs8IgYGV0MeU28RpWYzOk3Taue_k_-NVMk9ZthAFkAy7GU3zdSsBEK8VIXw?width=800&height=533&cropmode=none

zyrobs
07-22-2018, 10:05 PM
https://tfui5g.by.files.1drv.com/y4mf17QTh-90zey_JwnSW44zF62P4W9_zfZwGaX-QKDye9YLuMrMGA3pYu0GGBimR7Ps1eFv3mXJFUNJpTMw8uyCf9 HWPo8_WfF5ZPpeNH3_3bwXno8TUoeHwhtYeTK3pLsfiJT2aC8z GSY9frFfR60vG90c2RDs8IgYGV0MeU28RpWYzOk3Taue_k_-NVMk9ZthAFkAy7GU3zdSsBEK8VIXw?width=800&height=533&cropmode=none

Yeah, Shenmue started as Virtua Fighter RPG, we all know.

Blades
07-23-2018, 10:05 PM
Yeah, Shenmue started as Virtua Fighter RPG, we all know.

Glad I posted the image then.

StuOhQ
01-06-2019, 04:49 PM
... Didn't the DC version take a hit in texture quality as well?

That much is pretty obvious from the thumbnail to the video featured in the OP (check the ground). Dreamcast would often have cleaner visuals than the PS2, but have muddy - almost N64-esque - textures.

Black_Tiger
01-06-2019, 06:11 PM
That much is pretty obvious from the thumbnail to the video featured in the OP (check the ground). Dreamcast would often have cleaner visuals than the PS2, but have muddy - almost N64-esque - textures.

I guess you're talking about later PS2 games vs DC era DC games, because sharp and vibrant textures also stood out in Dreamcast games at the time.

Blades
01-08-2019, 04:30 AM
That much is pretty obvious from the thumbnail to the video featured in the OP (check the ground). Dreamcast would often have cleaner visuals than the PS2, but have muddy - almost N64-esque - textures.

What? Dreamcast textures were crazy sharp for their time.

Team Andromeda
01-09-2019, 03:21 AM
What? Dreamcast textures were crazy sharp for their time.

Agreed, that was always the best part of the DC games and how clean and vibrant most games looked with beautiful textures, bar the odd game like MSR :)

copper20
01-14-2019, 11:02 PM
I never played the arcade version myself but I've just stumbled upon this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJsdwrrOoTg

It looks almost the same. Somehow, I remember people dismissing the port as not doing justice to the glorious arcade version. Was it some kind of elitism? Or there are really some differences that are not noticeable on the first sight, like botched controls.

You could say this about EVERY arcade port on the Dreamcast. Gauntlet Legends? Oh it was good on the Nintendo 64? Try the Dreamcast version. Seriously when it came to games that were on PS1, N64, and Dreamcast at the same time, the Dreamcast was almost always the better. Same with Sega Genesis and Sega Saturn. Not always, but most of the time the arcade ports were always the best on Sega systems. Not sure why but it's the same problem with Activision and how they had Super Pitfall and Ghostbusters on the NES. Ghostbusters on Master System was good, and Pitfall the Mayan Adventure was far better on any Sega system, and the same could be said about Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1 being better on PS1/Dreamcast. I really think that some companies like Activision had some deadly grudge against Nintendo or something but that's just me.