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Yharnamresident
06-16-2018, 07:22 AM
Finally managed to hook up my Dreamcast to my home theatre. So I will be personally verifying which games have surround sound, whether its undocumented or documented(says on game case).

The most common format is Dolby Surround(Pro Logic I), because the Dreamcast was discontinued before Dolby Pro Logic II became popular in 2001/2002.

https://i.imgur.com/sUGzB4gl.jpg



Undocumented:
-Virtua Tennis(lots of centre channel use)
-Sega GT(actually uses rear channels for rival car noises)
-Test Drive Le Mans(surround effects seem to be amped up during replays)
-Metropolis Street Racer(game intro sounds impressive, but the rest of the game has rather scarce surround effect)
-Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2(the music is mixed in surround like Ridge Racer V)
-Ikaruga(the game has constant surround effects, can/should be cited as a Dreamcast game with full surround sound)

Documented:
-NHL 2K
-NHL 2K2

I will be updating this list as I go through more games

Yharnamresident
10-09-2019, 01:17 PM
Added Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2

I've come to the conclusion that most games use Dolby Surround encoding, what depends is if they actually do anything impressive with the encoding.

Yharnamresident
10-10-2019, 02:27 PM
I've discovered something substantial that makes me glad I made this thread.

Ikaruga is absolutely loaded to the brim with surround effects. Its a quantum leap over the other games I've tried. Stuff like corridors opening, enemies falling off screen, entering new areas, its very well done. This game must be included in any Dreamcast surround sound lists.

GohanX
10-10-2019, 05:28 PM
How are you verifying that they were actually created with surround encoding? Pro Logic or DTS surround modes in a receiver can apply processing to pretty much any stereo source, doesn't mean the designers were giving the faintest thought to rear channels when they were designing the audio. Try going through time in Sonic CD, it sounds pretty amazing in surround but I can guarantee you Sega did not give the slightest care to surround sound in 1993.

Yharnamresident
10-10-2019, 10:41 PM
How are you verifying that they were actually created with surround encoding? Pro Logic or DTS surround modes in a receiver can apply processing to pretty much any stereo source, doesn't mean the designers were giving the faintest thought to rear channels when they were designing the audio. Try going through time in Sonic CD, it sounds pretty amazing in surround but I can guarantee you Sega did not give the slightest care to surround sound in 1993.

Well it should be pretty obvious that I'm relying upon my personal observations. AKA take it with a bit of salt. I will say that a lot of the things I mention are practically impossible for the receiver to come up with on its own.

Team Andromeda
10-11-2019, 07:28 AM
Try going through time in Sonic CD, it sounds pretty amazing in surround but I can guarantee you Sega did not give the slightest care to surround sound in 1993.

Yeah NiGHTS on the Saturn can give some great surround, while not supporting in it. In 1993 SEGA seemed more focus on Q-Sound I did like how some EA Mega-CD games used Surround sound officially.
FIFA on the Mega CD was quite impressive in sound sound

Yharnamresident
10-11-2019, 01:24 PM
Yeah NiGHTS on the Saturn can give some great surround, while not supporting in it. In 1993 SEGA seemed more focus on Q-Sound I did like how some EA Mega-CD games used Surround sound officially.
FIFA on the Mega CD was quite impressive in sound sound

Thanks for the idea TA, there also has to be surround sound list threads for the Saturn and Sega CD. I will eventually create them if they aren't already created.

Ecco
10-11-2019, 08:50 PM
How about Ecco on Dreamcast? I bet it's loaded with surround-sound effects...

Ecco
10-11-2019, 08:53 PM
Yeah NiGHTS on the Saturn can give some great surround, while not supporting in it. In 1993 SEGA seemed more focus on Q-Sound I did like how some EA Mega-CD games used Surround sound officially.
FIFA on the Mega CD was quite impressive in sound sound

^I never really checked specifically for surround sound effects, but years ago, I remember that FIFA on Sega CD, had really nice sound effects in general. The crowd cheering real audio recordings. I remember the audio was relaxing, and realistic.

Yharnamresident
10-12-2019, 12:22 AM
How about Ecco on Dreamcast? I bet it's loaded with surround-sound effects...Well personally I lack the motivation to check, that game genre just isn't my style. But maybe TA has a Dolby receiver hooked up where he could check.


^I never really checked specifically for surround sound effects, but years ago, I remember that FIFA on Sega CD, had really nice sound effects in general. The crowd cheering real audio recordings. I remember the audio was relaxing, and realistic.The possibility of surround sound on the Sega CD never popped in my head, even though its clearly a good match for it, CD storage space and multiple PCM channels.

Team Andromeda
10-12-2019, 04:31 AM
Well personally I lack the motivation to check, that game genre just isn't my style. But maybe TA has a Dolby receiver hooked up where he could check.


The game doesn't support Dolby in software/hardware. You do get some nice effects mind (but its not coded in) it's just a quirk of using a sound system
There's some nice Q-Sound support in the likes of D2, Pen Pen, Sonic Adv mind . I'm not sure if they were brought over to the USA/Pal versions

Baloo
01-05-2021, 10:01 PM
Is there a comprehensive list of the retro video games that support Dolby Pro Logic and QSound for Genesis, SNES, Saturn, Dreamcast, Gamecube, etc? And can a Dolby Pro Logic receiver support games that have QSound abilities?

roce
01-06-2021, 04:53 AM
Some N64 games also support Dolby something-or-other surround sound.

Joe Redifer
01-06-2021, 05:46 AM
Anything that has sounds in the center channel simply means that some of the sounds are in mono. All mono sounds will come through the center channel. In fact ONLY mono sounds will come through the center channel. Surround sound is almost as simple. The sound must be in mono (same sound and volume in the left and right audio signal) but that sound is out of phase, meaning that sound in the left channel will be 180ļ out of phase with that same sound in the right channel. The receiver sends it to the surround speakers. Lots of sounds can do this accidentally.

Q Sound is stupid as it relies on the person being directly between the two speakers. Don't turn your head or move. Even if you don't the effect is underwhelming at best. If you wanna hear great surround from only two speakers, play PSVR with headphones.

Team Andromeda
01-06-2021, 09:50 AM
Q Sound is stupid as it relies on the person being directly between the two speakers. Don't turn your head or move. Even if you don't the effect is underwhelming at best. If you wanna hear great surround from only two speakers, play PSVR with headphones.

I don't think it was stupid, but a product of its time for the home and Arcades. The effect did work well on my old Nicam Stereo TV and I think some games did it a lot better than others; Ecco on the Mega CD was really good and I also got some good effect with Pen Pen on the DC, where it really did give a wide sound space . Not a game changer or anything but a nice effect from just a basic set up and it meant one could use RGB Scart lead on the DC.

I was disappointed to see SEGA who the time, were such a forward thinking and tech corp, give so little support for surround sound with the DC and Saturn in Hardware or its games (I take it Dolby asked a lot?) I did enjoy playing NHL 2K2 in Surround sound back in the day, one of the few SEGA games to support it. I got to give credit to RARE on the N64 when it came to Dobly support early in too

All that said SEGA 5.1 in SEGA GT 2002 and SpikeOut was some of the best use of the format. The sound effects in Spikeout were bone crushing and crystal clear and the 5.1 in SEGA GT the best ever you could even hear the engine purring LOL

Joe Redifer
01-06-2021, 08:00 PM
Q Sound never worked well in arcades because it was rarely on games where you could stand directly and equally between the two speakers. I didn't think Ecco had any good effects, even with headphones. Q Sound was all hype, no bite. It just happened that Q Sound had a good marketing team and a few in the videogame industry fell for their spiel. Dolby Pro Logic and Pro Logic II are both proven technologies with years and years of research behind them. Not that they really matter any more.

Team Andromeda
01-06-2021, 09:03 PM
Stage 3 to Ecco CD had really good sound space in the music and in Pen Pen, I found some nice separation in the swimming sections

The trouble with Dolby was not many people had that sort of set up in 1993 and it cost quite a lot of money. So it made sense to try and look for clever ways of just using 2 speakers.
I was always impressed with the sound separation from just 2 speakers in Snatcher and Road Adv on the Mega CD .

I think my 1st experience of Dolby Road Rash on the 3D0 where you could hear the traffic behind you and it was like a game changer at the time LOL

MegaDriver
01-12-2021, 04:05 PM
The trouble with Dolby was not many people had that sort of set up in 1993 and it cost quite a lot of money. So it made sense to try and look for clever ways of just using 2 speakers.
I was always impressed with the sound separation from just 2 speakers in Snatcher and Road Adv on the Mega CD .

Precisely.

But the necessary space to put up a sound system with good results could also be a constraint for many, especially if the room one plays in is small or already crowded with other objects, furniture, etc

In my case when I first got a 2nd hand Cambridge Soundworks PS2000 I was blown away with the sound I was getting from just 2 speakers placed in the corner of the room!

Interestingly, that sound system in particular also seems able to deal with analogue sources with early type of dolby surround encoding to it. Either that or it fakes it very well through the CMSS setting.

cleeg
01-13-2021, 02:54 AM
So this where I get a bit confused... Eventually I want to get an AV HDMI receiver with surround sound. I don't want anything too fancy, and might not even go for 7.1, staying with 5.1 if the price is better, but if I watch say, a Blu Ray with a 7.1 or Atmos soundtrack, will I miss anything? Or would the receiver / Blu Ray player do some magic to ensure the sound is distributed throughout the setup accordingly?

Any recommendations / tips? I also have a vintage B&O quodrophonic hifi, which I think I'll just use for music, though I'm still thinking of integrating it somehow into the gaming setup...

Baloo
01-13-2021, 06:15 PM
Cleeg: check out my latest post in the HiFi Stereo thread in Off-Topic.

cleeg
01-13-2021, 06:25 PM
Thank you Baloo, I can't rep you.

gamevet
01-16-2021, 08:57 PM
Stage 3 to Ecco CD had really good sound space in the music and in Pen Pen, I found some nice separation in the swimming sections

The trouble with Dolby was not many people had that sort of set up in 1993 and it cost quite a lot of money. So it made sense to try and look for clever ways of just using 2 speakers.
I was always impressed with the sound separation from just 2 speakers in Snatcher and Road Adv on the Mega CD .


They certainly weren't trying then. I pieced together a Pro-Logic surround setup, by buying open box stereo equipment from Best Buy. I had a full blown surround sound setup by the summer of 1993 and was making less than $14 hour back then.

The Sony STR-D990 came out in 1992.

https://usermanual.wiki/Sony/STRD990.3567019342


Look at some of the inputs that thing had. It even had a connection for DAT.

https://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15834&d=1610845962

Team Andromeda
01-17-2021, 04:51 AM
They certainly weren't trying then. I pieced together a Pro-Logic surround setup, by buying open box stereo equipment from Best Buy. I had a full blown surround sound setup by the summer of 1993 and was making less than $14 hour back then.


Overlooking SONY Hi-Fi equipment was never cheap, also like £100 more for similar products. Most sperate Hi-Fi amp's cost over £300 in the UK in the early '90s and that's before you even added speakers, even by the time of the Xbox, I didn't know many people with a separate sound amp for sound sound and making use of 5.1, USA could well be different
I had surround sound from my Philips separate Hi-Fi that I got for £250 in a Dixsons ex-display weekend offer in 1993. To be honest I didn't such much difference in games that used Dolby to those that's didn't as the sound was coming out of the back speakers no matter and didn't heard that much sound separation from Fifa on the Mega CD. That changed the time I got Road Rash on the 3DO and you could hear traffic that was behind you and was really impressed with the number of RARE titles that used Dolby on the N64. It was a pain moving the wires and all that, so didn't make that much of Dolby until I got my Kenwood Dolby Digitial stet up with the OG XBox and also at that time got a Philips TV widescreen TV with built in Dolby

For most of the 90's I had a Nicam TV with built-in speakers each side and my old PC 14 monitor had speakers on the sides, so it was easy to get in the correct position for me with the Mega CD and Dreamcast for Q sound. Stage 3 to Ecco CD on the Mega CD had some epic sound separation and it really did fill the room, I wasn't that impressed at all with Terminator on the Mega CD, but did experience some ok sound separation with Jurassic Park on the Mega CD. For The DC, on the Sonic Adv intro, I heard some nice sound separation and on stages like Twinkle park. Pen Pen underwater sections seemed to fill my room with sound as did to parts to D2

Nothing to a dedicated setup but still quite impressive with just a basic 2 speaker set up. The real game changer moment came for me playing Halo in 5.1 in Digital on my Kenwood with throwing a grenade and hearing grunts going flying over my head and through each of the back speakers separately with the sound of debris coming to throw the front speakers. Then was no going back from that moment on

gamevet
01-17-2021, 01:35 PM
Pioneer was more expensive than Sony. I decided I was going to get a surround sound setup, after hearing my friendís Pioneer setup. I started out with just the receiver and a couple of cheap Pioneer speakers, then got a pair of JBL bookshelf speaker that were open box at Best Buy for $90.

I had the system paired up with a Fisher Hi-Fi VCR that I got on clearance from a rental center. The day that thing died was almost heart breaking. Movies sounded awesome with Pro-Logic surround, and so did some of the Dolby SNES games I played through that receiver.

Team Andromeda
01-18-2021, 04:36 AM
Pioneer was more expensive than Sony. I decided I was going to get a surround sound setup, after hearing my friendís Pioneer setup. I started out with just the receiver and a couple of cheap Pioneer speakers, then got a pair of JBL bookshelf speaker that were open box at Best Buy for $90.

I had the system paired up with a Fisher Hi-Fi VCR that I got on clearance from a rental center. The day that thing died was almost heart breaking. Movies sounded awesome with Pro-Logic surround, and so did some of the Dolby SNES games I played through that receiver.

I don't remember any shop selling Pioneer stuff in my area you went up to SONY and that was it and SONY stuff always cost like a £100 more than similar products from JVC, Panasonic Ect and funilly enough my 1st ever job was working in Curry's LOL .
Like I said I never saw many benefits from using Dolby for the early stuff as the sound was coming out of the back speakers anyway and you had the issue of my rather using the Scart RGB lead to RCA leads if I wanted surround sound on systems with no separate Left Right outs

Road Rash on the 3DO was a big marker for surround sound but playing Halo in 5.1 was the real game changer for me and when I looked to play all games in surround sound. It's disappointing to see how little sound gets covered even today by the likes of Digital Foundry; they just focus on graphics and that's it. Such a shame when the stunning use of Dolby Atmos in Gears 4 and COD Modern Warefare adds so much to the experience.

gamevet
01-18-2021, 11:17 AM
It certainly sounds more like Sony didnít have any competition, if JVC, Philips and Panasonic were their competitors over there. Over here it was Kenwood, Pioneer (we all thought they were an American company), Yamaha, Onkyo and Sony. Sony was the best bang for the buck, because the others were a lot more expensive. I paid over $500 for my 27Ē Sony Trinitron back @ 1995, because Sony really didnít have any competition in the CRT market, other than Toshiba with their Trinitron clone televisions and Panasonicís flat screen CRTs. My receiver was only $300 (open box), because it was last years model. Compare that to something similar to what Kenwood, or Pioneer was selling, and it was $100 cheaper. I wouldnít even think of looking at something from JVC or Phillips, because they werenít considered high quality in the 90s, and were peddling trash under the guise of their quality products from the 80sí.

I mainly got my receiver to watch movies in surround and it was a plus that there were a few SNES games, like Star Fox, that supported the format. There were other games on the SNES that supported it as well, but didnít put the Dolby logo on the box, to avoid paying licensing fees to Dolby Labs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/miniSNESmods/comments/hyajts/snes_dolby_surround/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

Team Andromeda
01-19-2021, 03:40 AM
It certainly sounds more like Sony didnít have any competition, if JVC, Philips and Panasonic were their competitors over there. Over here it was Kenwood, Pioneer (we all thought they were an American company), Yamaha, Onkyo and Sony. Sony was the best bang for the buck, because the others were a lot more expensive. I paid over $500 for my 27Ē Sony Trinitron back @ 1995, because Sony really didnít have any competition in the CRT market, other than Toshiba with their Trinitron clone televisions and Panasonicís flat screen CRTs. My receiver was only $300 (open box), because it was last years model. Compare that to something similar to what Kenwood, or Pioneer was selling, and it was $100 cheaper. I wouldnít even think of looking at something from JVC or Phillips, because they werenít considered high quality in the 90s, and were peddling trash under the guise of their quality products from the 80sí.

I mainly got my receiver to watch movies in surround and it was a plus that there were a few SNES games, like Star Fox, that supported the format. There were other games on the SNES that supported it as well, but didnít put the Dolby logo on the box, to avoid paying licensing fees to Dolby Labs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/miniSNESmods/comments/hyajts/snes_dolby_surround/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

I don't agree that just because SONY cost more they were better. I remember when I got my Panasonic portable DVD L50 on holidays in Hong Kong and it was light years of the SONY offering and cheaper too. I was always super impressed with what Kenwood could offer for its price, but that's another Topic.
I didn't really care for Surround sound in the early 90's, so little games used and other than Fifa on the Mega CD or Super Turrican 2 on the Snes, I never really bothered to try and change the sound options, that started to change with the 3DO and the N64 and then I went into full flight when I had my X Box in 2001 and finally could experience Dolby Digital for games and films

Playing Halo in 5.1 was a total game changer. Even now mind I don't know that many people will a full surround set up even on some of the gaming forums. Which is such a shame, I love how Atmos was used in the likes of Gears IV and COD or even in games like Shadow Of the Tomb Raider. Shame for films and while the film might be dire, the use of Atmos in The Predator 2018 is the best I've heard in any film to date.

Like said I find it such a shame that the likes of Digital Foundry hardly cover or give time to sound design in games, much less where all the staff have the full Dolby Atmos set up Ect. It's really poor when how sound is used can really add to the game and its impact on the player.

gamevet
01-19-2021, 10:25 PM
I don't agree that just because SONY cost more they were better. I remember when I got my Panasonic portable DVD L50 on holidays in Hong Kong and it was light years of the SONY offering and cheaper too. I was always super impressed with what Kenwood could offer for its price, but that's another Topic.
I didn't really care for Surround sound in the early 90's, so little games used and other than Fifa on the Mega CD or Super Turrican 2 on the Snes, I never really bothered to try and change the sound options, that started to change with the 3DO and the N64 and then I went into full flight when I had my X Box in 2001 and finally could experience Dolby Digital for games and films

Playing Halo in 5.1 was a total game changer. Even now mind I don't know that many people will a full surround set up even on some of the gaming forums. Which is such a shame, I love how Atmos was used in the likes of Gears IV and COD or even in games like Shadow Of the Tomb Raider. Shame for films and while the film might be dire, the use of Atmos in The Predator 2018 is the best I've heard in any film to date.

Like said I find it such a shame that the likes of Digital Foundry hardly cover or give time to sound design in games, much less where all the staff have the full Dolby Atmos set up Ect. It's really poor when how sound is used can really add to the game and its impact on the player.

I was talking about their televisions, which were considered the best in the consumer market, as well as their studio monitors that are heavily sought out today, for their RGB quality.

I was saying that if Sony's stereo equipment was the most expensive over there, it's because they didn't have any competition. Sony over here was what you bought if you couldn't afford Kenwood, Yamaha or Pioneer. You didn't buy it because it was the best. You bought it, because it was the best bang you could get for your cash.

And, like I said, surround sound wasn't that scarce around here. By the late 90's they were selling cheap all-in-one surround sound kits for people to connect to their televisions. Just because you weren't interested at the time, doesn't mean anything about the discussion.