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View Full Version : Can SEGA fans stop with Dreamcast 2? Because it already came out years ago.



Leynos
03-04-2019, 07:09 PM
I realize it's mostly said in jest these days and I don't see it here thankfully unless it's used as a joke but I still see people every so often elsewhere who still genuinely think SEGA should make a Dreamcast 2. I'm not here to discuss the obvious reasons we all know why it will never happen but to actually say. I think Dreamcast 2 released already had a full console lifespan and was a great system. It just didn't have SEGA's branding on it.



Xbox 360.

I know most comparisons are surface level.. I don't have that 1up article anymore sadly that compared the Dreamcast to the Xbox 360 launch but they did have a lot of parallels. We even know the controller evolved from the Saturn/Dreamcast controller. They were by no means exactly the same systems as they do have their own quirks and yes I will say personality traits. I do feel the hardware in design to the controller to XBL and XBLA felt like what a Dreamcast successor would have evolved into. I love the 360 and possibly the best console of its generation. I go back & forth on that personally between it and PS3. If anyone can find that way back machine 1up article that would be awesome. I have had no luck. I also feel it had some short-sightedness that SEGA would have had. Focused more on online than offering a better disc medium. Didn't have HDMI (until the elite)


Now I know Xbox 360 by 2012 was being marketed differently. The first few years with J Allard in charge it felt like if you replaced the MS brand with SEGA not much would change in philosophy of the 360 as a console. Before Don Mattrick tried to chase the Wii with Kinect. SEGA showed strong support for it. Maybe I'm just too much of a Dreamcast fanboy I want to see more than is really there but I really do feel Xbox 360 was the closest we will ever get to DC2. No, I don't feel that way about Xbox One for various reasons. While I love Original Xbox it never felt like a DC2 either to me but 360 always did.

What do you guys think?

Greg2600
03-04-2019, 07:55 PM
Xbox 360?? OG Xbox maybe, although there's never been anything conclusive said about Microsoft taking much of anything off the Dreamcast platform. 360 had nothing to do with DC.

Leynos
03-04-2019, 08:06 PM
No one said they needed direct involvement but the 360 as a console in its hardware design. Controller. Logo. Focus on online and strong SEGA support the first couple of years all felt like an evolution of what DC started. 360 felt like the next logical step if there was a true successor in the next generation.

Tower of Power
03-04-2019, 08:54 PM
I agree, time to start begging for Dreamcast 3.

gamevet
03-05-2019, 01:20 AM
The OG Xbox felt like the evolution of the Dreamcast. It had a North American release of Shenmue 2, the next Panzer Dragoon game, the next chapter to Jet Grind Radio, Crazy Taxi 3, Sega GT 2002, Outrun 2, the best version of NFL2K5 and an outstanding online service.

Leynos
03-05-2019, 01:34 AM
I agree, time to start begging for Dreamcast 3.

Nah. Sega Nomad 2!

Vorenge
03-05-2019, 03:43 AM
I think the OG Xbox was the spiritual successor to the Dreamcast. As mentioned, all the great games that were ported over and continued from the Dreamcast, 4 controller ports, freakin' PSO with voice chat...Peter Moore.

Anyway, I think Retro-bit is trying to clone the Nomad, but it won't only NOT be a 2, it probably won't be even as good as a 1 or even a composite LCD modded 1.

Team Andromeda
03-05-2019, 04:46 AM
We had the DC II it was called the NA@MI II . But looking over that the closest we ever got in the home was the OG Xbox - It was also the system that got the best out of SEGA since they went 3rd party IMO too

Leynos
03-06-2019, 04:26 PM
Xbox to me just felt like a continuation of DC rather than a full-on Next Generation sequel. Xbox is maybe 1.5 and 360 IMO is the true 2.0.

zyrobs
03-06-2019, 06:18 PM
The Dreamcast 2 was the OG Xbox.

It was like the Dreamcast in every area that mattered. It had a cutting-edge feature set that Sega was known for. The system was touted for the same high PC compatibility as the DC, which resulted in a very high number of homebrew just like the DC. The controller was similar (although that was down to MS already having a long history in making gamepads). But most importantly it had a lot of exclusive Sega titles, most of them being their more unique/iconic titles like Panzer Dragoon, Crazy Taxi, Jet Set Radio, Toejam & Earl, Shenmue, Outrun, etc. Even Rent-a-Hero No.1., although the english version of that got cancelled despite being complete. Yeah, the other systems got exclusives too, but on the Xbox, said games are some of the more notable titles the system is known for.
There's also that detail, that they aimed for DC compatibility at one point, but it fell through because it would've raised the bill of materials by another $50, when MS was already losing $100 on every unit.

And beyond all that, it entered the market around the time when the last Sega machine (one with huge Windows logos on the side) exited.
As far as I'm concerned, the original Xbox is the Dreamcast 2 in everything but name.

vexatious
03-10-2019, 08:00 AM
Most people don't mention this but Sega always seems to have had a grey relationship with Microsoft.

First MSX console is arguably the first Xbox. With an adapter, MSX cartridges work fine on the Sega Game Gear (probably Master System & Genesis too); these all share the same hardware. Then there's the Microsoft Sidewinder gamepad which coincides with Sega Genesis 6 button pad and Sega Saturn pad; it also has the mode button and other model variants. There's the Nvidia NV1 card with Sega Saturn pad ports for Windows 95 and there are quite a few Sega games ported to Windows 95. PDAs with Windows CE were powered by SuperH cpus. There's also a situation where 3dfx hardware was used in arcade machines that weren't Sega but 3dfx was bought by Nvidia the same time Dreamcast got obsolete with OG Xbox, and the Xbox does have Nvidia hardware being a variant of Chihiro arcade unit.


EDIT

Actually think Xbox 360 is where Microsoft-Sega relationship might've changed. Sega Europa-R unit was implemented with Sega Rally 3 (Sega Rally Revolution on consoles and Windows OS) and Race Driver Grid, and consisted of Nvidia 8800 graphics with Intel cpu, but Xbox 360 uses PowerPc with ATI graphics. Similarly, Sega Ring Edge 1-2 and Sega Nu units utilize intel 8086 with nvidia hardware and Windows embedded OS.

Capcom has similar relationship with Sega. Cps2 utilizes 68k cpu and similar sound system to Sega Genesis. CPS3 similar to 32x Mars (only one SH2 implemented). Alot of game content and designs possibly shared between games like Sonic, Megaman, Streets of Rage, Final Fight, Aliens vs Predator, Cadillacs & Dinosaurs, Lost World Jurassic Park, etc.

zyrobs
03-10-2019, 10:48 AM
First MSX console is arguably the first Xbox. With an adapter, MSX cartridges work fine on the Sega Game Gear (probably Master System & Genesis too); these all share the same hardware.

That had nothing to do with Sega. The MSX used an off the shelf Texas Instruments VDP, which was the same thing the first Sega console used (the SG-1000). Master System was backwards compatible with that, and the Game Gear is a souped up Master System. The GG being able to run MSX titles is entirely coincidental. The Genesis removes that mode iirc, but it still has the Master System modes of course.


Capcom has similar relationship with Sega. Cps2 utilizes 68k cpu and similar sound system to Sega Genesis. CPS3 similar to 32x Mars (only one SH2 implemented).
The parts you mentioned are all off the shelf components, and it doesn't make the systems similar at all. Things like the video subsystem, memory bus, etc were all different, and they are what primarily dictate how the game will run on the system.


Alot of game content and designs possibly shared between games like Sonic, Megaman, Streets of Rage, Final Fight, Aliens vs Predator, Cadillacs & Dinosaurs, Lost World Jurassic Park, etc.
I'm pretty sure there was nothing shared between Sega and Capcom game developers, other than Streets of Rage 2 (developed by Ancient, not Sega) being very heavily influenced by Street Fighter and Final Fight. AvP, C&D, Punisher, were all Capcom in-house games, so most likely had some stuff shared, especially since they all play pretty similar.

Team Andromeda
03-10-2019, 11:46 AM
The Dreamcast 2 was the OG Xbox.

It was like the Dreamcast in every area that mattered. It had a cutting-edge feature set that Sega was known for. The system was touted for the same high PC compatibility as the DC, which resulted in a very high number of homebrew just like the DC. The controller was similar (although that was down to MS already having a long history in making gamepads). But most importantly it had a lot of exclusive Sega titles, most of them being their more unique/iconic titles like Panzer Dragoon, Crazy Taxi, Jet Set Radio, Toejam & Earl, Shenmue, Outrun, etc. Even Rent-a-Hero No.1., although the english version of that got cancelled despite being complete. Yeah, the other systems got exclusives too, but on the Xbox, said games are some of the more notable titles the system is known for.
There's also that detail, that they aimed for DC compatibility at one point, but it fell through because it would've raised the bill of materials by another $50, when MS was already losing $100 on every unit.

And beyond all that, it entered the market around the time when the last Sega machine (one with huge Windows logos on the side) exited.
As far as I'm concerned, the original Xbox is the Dreamcast 2 in everything but name.

Spot on post. The OG XBox was the DC II in all but name and does it get any better than Orta, JSRF and Outrun II- SEGA at their very best, its not even close

redsox2013
03-11-2019, 09:22 PM
Spot on post. The OG XBox was the DC II in all but name and does it get any better than Orta, JSRF and Outrun II- SEGA at their very best, its not even close

I fully agree, though I still don't understand why Virtua Fighter 4 was a PS2 exclusive. Why couldn't it have at least been multi-platform? I'd love to have seen VF4 (and Evolution) fully maxing out the Xbox, even though VF4 Evo on PS2 is already a damn near perfect game.

Actually, the original Sega vs. Sony fighting game competition (VF vs. Tekken) ultimately manifested itself late in the PS2's lifecycle with VF4 Evo & Tekken 5 - two games that could easily pass for early Xbox 360/PS3 games. Both also include versions of the older games in the series' as bonuses.

Greg2600
03-12-2019, 02:14 AM
The OG was NOT the Dreamcast whatever! Read some actual interviews. Microsoft created that system completely on their own, while hiring some SEGA folks as consultants prior to launch. Plenty of DC titles/sequels were ported to Gamecube as well. There is NO Dreamcast II, nor will there ever be.

Leynos
03-12-2019, 02:28 AM
The OG was NOT the Dreamcast whatever! Read some actual interviews. Microsoft created that system completely on their own, while hiring some SEGA folks as consultants prior to launch. Plenty of DC titles/sequels were ported to Gamecube as well. There is NO Dreamcast II, nor will there ever be.

Eh, they used Dreamcasts in focus testing while developing the Xbox. They almost had a VMU in the controller but on focus, testing noticed no one looked down so they abandoned the idea. There is also no denying the controller evolved from Dreamcast. MS wanted to buy SEGA & Nintendo. Xbox was almost fully BC with DC games.

Team Andromeda
03-12-2019, 10:10 AM
I fully agree, though I still don't understand why Virtua Fighter 4 was a PS2 exclusive. Why couldn't it have at least been multi-platform? I'd love to have seen VF4 (and Evolution) fully maxing out the Xbox, even though VF4 Evo on PS2 is already a damn near perfect game.


I could see why VF 4 was just on the PS2 given that the series at that point only sold well in Japan and the PS2 was just so dominating there. It would have been nice to see near perfect version of VF 4 and Evo on the OG Xbox. I agree too VF Evo is perfection, its hands down the best 3D fighting game made to this day and the quest mode was incredible. Sammy's treatment of Yu'GOD' Suzuki was shamefull.

Leynos
03-12-2019, 02:51 PM
VF is a series that got better with each entry and IMO VF5 is better than Evo. Evo is fantastic tho.

DreamCarts
03-19-2019, 10:47 AM
LOL Xbox 360 was a console that is known for the tray scratching discs and I thought Dreamcast 2 was just a codename for Sega to re-enter the market again. To be fair. I never owned any Xbox until Xbox One and with the backwards compatibility, I really wanted to play those games and I would think those games are for me, considering I grew up with Sega consoles, so yeah, I do feel the power from the hardware coming from Sega.

MrMatthews
03-19-2019, 09:28 PM
Greg, I feel like you might be taking this a bit too literally.

Team Andromeda
03-22-2019, 05:49 AM
This really is what the Dreamcast II would have been. Shame too would have loved this tech in a home system and it would have been fully BC with Dreamcast too


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWI_A-_PPT0

Moirai
03-26-2019, 02:19 PM
this thread is blasphemy

Tripredacus
03-26-2019, 03:24 PM
The Orbi was supposed to be Dreamcast 2 but then it became a zoo.

KitsuneNight
04-03-2019, 12:31 PM
No one said they needed direct involvement but the 360 as a console in its hardware design. Controller. Logo. Focus on online and strong SEGA support the first couple of years all felt like an evolution of what DC started. 360 felt like the next logical step if there was a true successor in the next generation.

always felt the original 2001 xbox was closer to the dreamcast 2
with a glut of sega titles and a suspiciously similair controller

the 360 is just the xbox 2 for a console to be a dreamcast 2 it kinda needs to have sega games which the 2001 xbox had in spades

KitsuneNight
04-03-2019, 12:32 PM
The Orbi was supposed to be Dreamcast 2 but then it became a zoo.

...i remember that clusterfuck with mrsega
whats he up to these days anyway ?

Tripredacus
04-03-2019, 01:12 PM
WHO CARES!

I want to point out that Netgear or someone makes a home wireless thing called Orbi. I see it when I go into Best Buy and have myself a good laugh.

KitsuneNight
04-03-2019, 01:14 PM
WHO CARES!

I want to point out that Netgear or someone makes a home wireless thing called Orbi. I see it when I go into Best Buy and have myself a good laugh.

pics !

sides id like to see what he is up to these days
ie what other sega communities have kicked him out and where he is talking to himself
morbid fascination