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View Full Version : Why did Sega fail? A look at the 32X, Saturn and Dreamcast.



Mega Drive Bowlsey
06-10-2019, 06:50 PM
Ok, so I know at first glance most of you will dismiss this as something you are already well aware of and as something that has been discussed to death in other videos. However, for me personally this video is the final word on the subject. Presenting graphs, stats, interviews and quotes from the key players involved, this vid gave me the best understanding to date regarding Sega's fate and the economics involved. What I found especially interesting is the quote from former Sega engineer and company legend, Hideki Sato, who said that due to the high cost of the Saturn's manufacture, Sega actually got FURTHER in the red the more consoles they sold. So much so that Sega actually deliberately started making less consoles to counter this as the level of debt they were accruing became apparent.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu9_Oxn8LmA

axel
06-10-2019, 09:11 PM
He never mentioned the piracy on the Dreamcast. That was the reason no one was buying games for the thing.

Gryson
06-10-2019, 10:22 PM
What I found especially interesting is the quote from former Sega engineer and company legend, Hideki Sato, who said that due to the high cost of the Saturn's manufacture, Sega actually got FURTHER in the red the more consoles they sold. So much so that Sega actually deliberately started making less consoles to counter this as the level of debt they were accruing became apparent.

*cough cough* http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?33506-Hideki-Sato-on-the-Sega-Saturn-(incredible-new-interview)

I like Jenovi's video - I'm glad we are moving in a positive direction away from the usual story.

That said, there are some things that I'd like to point out, some of which are not well known:

1) The 32X was the direct result of the SOA's belief that the Saturn was priced too high to sell in NA. Both Nakayama and Toyoda have explicitly stated this in Collected Works. Nakayama wanted to push the Saturn in both Japan and NA from the start, but SOA convinced him that the Saturn would never sell with a $400 price tag, so they started thinking of ways to revitalize the 16-bit market for a few more years. The 32X would come about as a result of this.

2) The original intention was for the 32X to be the dominant console in NA and the Saturn to be the dominant console in Japan, at least for the first few years. Nakayama saw the 32X as a godsend because it would allow him to focus fully on the Japanese market, and SOA also saw the 32X as a godsend because they were finally in control of their own hardware. This is documented in quotes from Nakayama which I don't think have been translated yet. This helps explain why Kalinske actually talked down the Saturn in order to promote the 32X in late '94. He didn't think he was going to have to deal with the Saturn for a while yet.

3) Everything changed when the 32X began to fall apart before it had even launched. The most obvious sign of impending failure was that Kalinske had been almost entirely unable to attract 3rd party support, despite going to extravagant lengths. Within one month of the 32X's release, Kalinske went from talking down the Saturn to promoting its near-future release. It's partially speculation, but I think that the early limited release of the Saturn in NA was at least somewhat intended as damage control for the 32X failure. Nakayama wanted to shift focus back to the Saturn. Once it was clear the 32X was a failure, the less attention it received the better.

4) It's not true that the Genesis was unofficially discontinued when the Saturn was released. I don't know why this rumor persists so strongly. Read the Sega press releases from '95/'96 to see how much they were focusing on the Genesis. In fact, once it became clear that the Genesis was still selling strongly at the end of '95, Nakayama wanted more Genesis game development.

Barone
06-10-2019, 11:25 PM
2)The original intention was for the 32X to be the dominant console in NA and the Saturn to be the dominant console in Japan, at least for the first few years.
One thing I don't understand is why they even introduced the 32X in Japan.
Given the small MD user base there and the far more advanced adoption of CD medium (even the 3DO had some decent months there at some point according to sales figures), it just doesn't seem to make sense. Also, both the Saturn and PS1 being introduced there at the same time.



3) Everything changed when the 32X began to fall apart before it had even launched. The most obvious sign of impending failure was that Kalinske had been almost entirely unable to attract 3rd party support, despite going to extravagant lengths.
I wonder to which extent the abrupt deterioration of Atari's finance (and use of false sales numbers for quite some time) which resulted in the sudden death of the Jaguar contributed to the 32X failure in the US.

I say this because both platforms have titles which were developed sharing resources and they also share a good number of same cancelled games.
Both line-ups were composed of "enhanced" versions of 16-bit games and "next-gen" 2D games for the most part.
Even the 3DO already had a selection of titles closer to low-budget PS1 games than to 16-bit remixes.

Therefore, I think the 32X would have been a more viable platform if developers could split costs with the Jaguar other than insisting in a line-up of games which would only fit this one weird add-on platform.
On the other hand, you had Sony approaching these same developers and offering money to shift their projects to the PS1 instead; or at least use their best resources on PS1 projects. And go full 3D, of course.

Mega Drive Bowlsey
06-10-2019, 11:41 PM
*cough cough* http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?33506-Hideki-Sato-on-the-Sega-Saturn-(incredible-new-interview)

I like Jenovi's video - I'm glad we are moving in a positive direction away from the usual story.

That said, there are some things that I'd like to point out, some of which are not well known:

1) The 32X was the direct result of the SOA's belief that the Saturn was priced too high to sell in NA. Both Nakayama and Toyoda have explicitly stated this in Collected Works. Nakayama wanted to push the Saturn in both Japan and NA from the start, but SOA convinced him that the Saturn would never sell with a $400 price tag, so they started thinking of ways to revitalize the 16-bit market for a few more years. The 32X would come about as a result of this.

2) The original intention was for the 32X to be the dominant console in NA and the Saturn to be the dominant console in Japan, at least for the first few years. Nakayama saw the 32X as a godsend because it would allow him to focus fully on the Japanese market, and SOA also saw the 32X as a godsend because they were finally in control of their own hardware. This is documented in quotes from Nakayama which I don't think have been translated yet. This helps explain why Kalinske actually talked down the Saturn in order to promote the 32X in late '94. He didn't think he was going to have to deal with the Saturn for a while yet.

3) Everything changed when the 32X began to fall apart before it had even launched. The most obvious sign of impending failure was that Kalinske had been almost entirely unable to attract 3rd party support, despite going to extravagant lengths. Within one month of the 32X's release, Kalinske went from talking down the Saturn to promoting its near-future release. It's partially speculation, but I think that the early limited release of the Saturn in NA was at least somewhat intended as damage control for the 32X failure. Nakayama wanted to shift focus back to the Saturn. Once it was clear the 32X was a failure, the less attention it received the better.

4) It's not true that the Genesis was unofficially discontinued when the Saturn was released. I don't know why this rumor persists so strongly. Read the Sega press releases from '95/'96 to see how much they were focusing on the Genesis. In fact, once it became clear that the Genesis was still selling strongly at the end of '95, Nakayama wanted more Genesis game development.

Very good points, Gryson. I'm a big fan of your work.

Team Andromeda
06-11-2019, 05:17 AM
He never mentioned the piracy on the Dreamcast. That was the reason no one was buying games for the thing.

It a way, that should have helped SEGA (at least with hardware sales) . Piracy was rife on the PS and I bet it sold millions of hardware on the back of it, back in the day you had people in my area selling PS copies and even modding PS systems in the car parks of major Supermarkets like TESCO's.
Almost everyone was modding their PS, but it didn't matter the PS was selling millions of hardware and so that was attracting developer support and even if just a tiny % of those PS users bought some games, it would result in millions of sales. Also, everyone I knew too, modded their OG XBox and that really never hurt the system.

The trouble with the DC was even at the start no enough people in Japan or in Europe were buying the hardware and everyone fell for the PS2 hype and that bloody MGS 2 E3 trailer, which was a killer moment, even I wanted a PS2 after that trailer lol But I held off until the day SEGA called it quits and then got a PS2 along with DMC and ICO lol

I think 3 major cock-ups were the main downfall of SEGA

1) 32X.

2) No 3D Saturn Sonic platform game.

3) Not getting SquareSoft on board.

For me, the day that Final Fantasy demo came out in Japan was the day SEGA lost the battle and never really recovered. Shame too, SEGA was really building something in Japan

Mega Drive Bowlsey
06-11-2019, 05:38 AM
It a way, that should have helped SEGA (at least with hardware sales) . Piracy was rife on the PS and I bet it sold millions of hardware on the back of it, back in the day you had people in my area selling PS copies and even modding PS systems in the car parks of major Supermarkets like TESCO's.
Almost everyone was modding their PS, but it didn't matter the PS was selling millions of hardware and so that was attracting developer support and even if just a tiny % of those PS users bought some games, it would result in millions of sales. Also, everyone I knew too, modded their OG XBox and that really never hurt the system.

The trouble with the DC was even at the start no enough people in Japan or in Europe were buying the hardware and everyone fell for the PS2 hype and that bloody MGS 2 E3 trailer, which was a killer moment, even I wanted a PS2 after that trailer lol But I held off until the day SEGA called it quits and then got a PS2 along with DMC and ICO lol

I think 3 major cock-ups were the main downfall of SEGA

1) 32X.

2) No 3D Saturn Sonic platform game.

3) Not getting SquareSoft on board.

For me, the day that Final Fantasy demo came out in Japan was the day SEGA lost the battle and never really recovered. Shame too, SEGA was really building something in Japan

Even if Sega had got the likes of Squaresoft on board I highly doubt that they could have made a game like FFVII on the Saturn hardware. Not necessarily because the console couldn't handle it, but because the only developers who seemed to consistently get the most out of the Saturn were Sega themselves and Capcom. Most other third party developers seemed to struggle with the hardware.

Team Andromeda
06-11-2019, 06:14 AM
Even if Sega had got the likes of Squaresoft on board I highly doubt that they could have made a game like FFVII on the Saturn hardware. Not necessarily because the console couldn't handle it, but because the only developers who seemed to consistently get the most out of the Saturn were Sega themselves and Capcom. Most other third party developers seemed to struggle with the hardware.

If you were on about FF8 I might agree. There isn't that much special in FF7 imo. And if relatively small 3rd parties like Lobotomy, Scavenger, Camelot, Genki, Climax Entertainment, GameArts (for me both Gradina and Dark Saviour looked better than FF 7) could make the Saturn sing .I see no reason why Square couldn't, more with FF 7 being developed around the hardware, instead of being ported to it . Like Square told Retro Gamer mag, a major factor in why they choose with SONY (despite the Saturn having over a million bigger user base adv in Japan at the time ) was a commitment from SONY, to push and promote the game heavily in the West.

Mega Drive Bowlsey
06-11-2019, 06:24 AM
If you were on about FF8 I might agree. There isn't that much special in FF7 imo. And if relatively small 3rd parties like Lobotomy, Scavenger, Camelot, Genki, Climax Entertainment, GameArts (for me both Gradina and Dark Saviour looked better than FF 7) could make the Saturn sing .I see no reason why Square couldn't, more with FF 7 being developed around the hardware, instead of being ported to it . Like Square told Retro Gamer mag, a major factor in why they choose with SONY (despite the Saturn having over a million bigger user base adv in Japan at the time ) was a commitment from SONY, to push and promote the game heavily in the West.

Oh I agree that it COULD have been done, games like Shining Force III on the Saturn look every bit as good as FFVII I think, I'm just questioning whether it WOULD have been done or whether Squaresoft would have had to cut corners if they'd started to struggle with certain aspects of programming.

Team Andromeda
06-11-2019, 06:34 AM
Oh I agree that it COULD have been done, games like Shining Force III on the Saturn look every bit as good as FFVII I think, I'm just questioning whether it WOULD have been done or whether Squaresoft would have had to cut corners if they'd started to struggle with certain aspects of programming.

If the game was being developed around the Saturn hardware they wouldn't cut corners. It's not like FF 7 is such an amazing game to look at (FF8 different story) they were plenty of examples of small teams getting great results out of the Saturn. Shining Force III team was tiny in comparison to FF 7. FF 7 had over double to staff to what GameArts had on Grandia and to me, Grandia blows away FF 7 in almost every area (Gfx and sound) and its a far better RPG to boot. Just look at what the tiny team that was Traveller's Tales (at that stage) did on the Saturn with Sonic R.

Leynos
06-13-2019, 01:26 AM
Even if Sega had got the likes of Squaresoft on board I highly doubt that they could have made a game like FFVII on the Saturn hardware. Not necessarily because the console couldn't handle it, but because the only developers who seemed to consistently get the most out of the Saturn were Sega themselves and Capcom. Most other third party developers seemed to struggle with the hardware.

I'm honestly not sure I can see Final Fantasy VIII or IX on Saturn. FFIX was pushing PS1 pretty hard. Vagrant Story was another. Esp Metal Gear Solid. MGS was one of the most impressive looking games of its generation.

Vector
06-13-2019, 03:56 AM
it didn't, its hardware mini might out sell nintendos and konami but ESP sony ah the irony 20 years revenge

Leynos
06-13-2019, 04:11 AM
it didn't, its hardware mini might out sell nintendos and konami but ESP sony ah the irony 20 years revenge

It's doubtful it sells more than NES or SNES classic. NES Classic sold close to 4 million and SNES classic just over 5 million. SEGA would be thrilled if they reached half that. 2-3 million is closer to its ceiling IMO. No doubt it will sell better than the TG16 Mini and PS1 Classic. TG16 just wasn't as popular. PS1 classic was just a disaster.

Team Andromeda
06-13-2019, 07:26 AM
I'm honestly not sure I can see Final Fantasy VIII or IX on Saturn. FFIX was pushing PS1 pretty hard. Vagrant Story was another. Esp Metal Gear Solid. MGS was one of the most impressive looking games of its generation.

But if SEGA had Square onboard then the games would be designed around the Saturn hardware, in just the same way had Sony signed up Treasure to develop Radiant Slivergun on System 11 board it would have been a different looking game, same goes for Panzer Dragoon Orta if developed for the PS2 or even Skies of Arcade if developed on PS2 hardware. Had Square beeing making Chrono Trigger or Seiken Densetsu 3 for the Mega Drive hardware we wouldn't have Snes specific effects or music and the games would have been designed around Mega Drive hardware strengths. If SEGA had Square in the 16 bit days, I bet sales of the Mega Drive and even Mega CD hardware would have been vastly different and I loved have loved too seen what Square would have done with a Mega CD RPG

gamevet
06-14-2019, 01:10 AM
Panzer Dragoon Orta would have looked like ass on the PS2.

Team Andromeda
06-14-2019, 04:07 AM
Panzer Dragoon Orta would have looked like ass on the PS2.

It would have looked different. That's what happens when you sign up a 3rd party and it develops a system around your hardware. If Nintendo had signed up Treasure then Gunstar Heroes would have been a very different game, or if SONY got them in the 32bit days then Guardian Heroes would have looked different. If SEGA had got Square in the 16 bit or 32-bit era, then the FF would have looked a sounded different Ect

Virtua Hunter
06-24-2019, 08:23 AM
I'm honestly not sure I can see Final Fantasy VIII or IX on Saturn. FFIX was pushing PS1 pretty hard. Vagrant Story was another. Esp Metal Gear Solid. MGS was one of the most impressive looking games of its generation.

Vagrant Story was impressive, Metal Gear not really in my opinion (after all it was 2,5D game for 90% of the time).
Don't forget Shenmue Saturn, that was on a another level compared to MGS and many last gen PSX games.

What Saturn lacked wasn't horse power, was just marketing and success.

Leynos
06-24-2019, 12:10 PM
MGS was in no way 2.5D. Full 3D characters in full 3D environments. Top-down mostly sure but that's not 2.5D. It also shifted to the third person at times. Shenmue Saturn was never released so we don't know how well or poorly it ran. We have no idea how it was optimized, just a target video. What we saw was impressive but you can't compare it to released games.

Raijin Z
06-24-2019, 05:46 PM
Sega being stupid with development kits and information resources did nothing to prevent Sony from caving the competitions' collective head in with the PlayStation. I hate Sony more than most (software) companies, but credit where it's due. They didn't leave development houses in a lurch.

Team Andromeda
06-25-2019, 05:47 AM
I hate Sony more than most (software) companies, but credit where it's due. They didn't leave development houses in a lurch.

No, They would just leave that until the PS 3

Virtua Hunter
06-25-2019, 07:28 AM
MGS was in no way 2.5D. Full 3D characters in full 3D environments. Top-down mostly sure but that's not 2.5D. It also shifted to the third person at times. Shenmue Saturn was never released so we don't know how well or poorly it ran. We have no idea how it was optimized, just a target video. What we saw was impressive but you can't compare it to released games.

Probably was a little unfair to call MGS 2.5D, but it has 2Dish gameplay just like the original two Metal Gear on MSX.
Sure it's easier for hardware to handle a game that has a top down view for the majority of the time, VS handling a game with a third person free camera (like Burning Rangers, PD Saga on Shenmue Saturn).


That said the comparison is totally unfair, you're taking for example games that were released at the end of PSX life cycle (1998/2000), with developers that were able to use any kind of tricks to achieve results that were virtually not possible on the PSX, while the Saturn was already discontinued and never had the same chance.

The only glimpse we had of a late generation Saturn game, was the Shenmue Saturn video, (that wasn't a target video, it was demo running on real hardware like AM2 said), and it showed many things that we don't see even in later PSX games, like real faces and impressive facial animations (MGS had plain polygon faces with no animations, just saying).

If Saturn was a successful console, third party games like FF8, MGS or Vagrant Story would have been possible on the console.

Vector
07-02-2019, 11:47 PM
It's doubtful it sells more than NES or SNES classic. NES Classic sold close to 4 million and SNES classic just over 5 million. SEGA would be thrilled if they reached half that. 2-3 million is closer to its ceiling IMO. No doubt it will sell better than the TG16 Mini and PS1 Classic. TG16 just wasn't as popular. PS1 classic was just a disaster.

Friendly bet then. I say the Genesis mini outsells Nes mini by end Dec 2019/Early 2020 worldwide. I say 4.5 million ish.

Greg2600
07-03-2019, 12:47 AM
Several of the bad decisions were simply risks that didn't work out. The video also correctly points out that financially Sony was a behemoth that SEGA couldn't compete with. I've always maintained that even with clairvoyance, SEGA was not going to survive SONY's barrage.

Blades
07-03-2019, 03:00 AM
The only glimpse we had of a late generation Saturn game, was the Shenmue Saturn video.

Saga looks better than Shenmue Saturn IMO.

Vector
07-07-2019, 01:55 PM
It didn't fail really. They released consoles from 1983 to 2001 then took a break and are making consoles (mini anyway) again =) Master System did good almost everywhere except USA, Genesis did great and took on NES and SNES and others and sold just shy of 7 million compared to SNES when all was said and done (maybe more if all 20 variants are added in), Game Gear did ok, Sega CD sold 3 million and was highest selling add on ever before Kinect, 32X sold 600,000 mostly in USA in just 1 or 2 months =0, Saturn did good everywhere except USA (still sold 10 million right?) and Dreamcast is beloved worldwide. They did great in 80s and 90s in Arcades and became a great 3rd Party. Maybe one day they will come back again. Here endth the lesson.

gamevet
07-09-2019, 01:25 AM
It didn't fail really. They released consoles from 1983 to 2001 then took a break and are making consoles (mini anyway) again =) Master System did good almost everywhere except USA, Genesis did great and took on NES and SNES and others and sold just shy of 7 million compared to SNES when all was said and done (maybe more if all 20 variants are added in), Game Gear did ok, Sega CD sold 3 million and was highest selling add on ever before Kinect, 32X sold 600,000 mostly in USA in just 1 or 2 months =0, Saturn did good everywhere except USA (still sold 10 million right?) and Dreamcast is beloved worldwide. They did great in 80s and 90s in Arcades and became a great 3rd Party. Maybe one day they will come back again. Here endth the lesson.

I'm almost certain that the Saturn sold better in North America, than it did in Europe.

Leynos
07-09-2019, 04:24 AM
It didn't fail really. They released consoles from 1983 to 2001 then took a break and are making consoles (mini anyway) again =) Master System did good almost everywhere except USA, Genesis did great and took on NES and SNES and others and sold just shy of 7 million compared to SNES when all was said and done (maybe more if all 20 variants are added in), Game Gear did ok, Sega CD sold 3 million and was highest selling add on ever before Kinect, 32X sold 600,000 mostly in USA in just 1 or 2 months =0, Saturn did good everywhere except USA (still sold 10 million right?) and Dreamcast is beloved worldwide. They did great in 80s and 90s in Arcades and became a great 3rd Party. Maybe one day they will come back again. Here endth the lesson.

Saturn sold 9 million and that's pathetic. Wii U and Vita for example which are colossal failures sold 13 and 14 million. SEGA no doubt failed when they were bankrupt in 2001. Sammy basically saved them (Okawa's donation just kept their head above water for a period) PS5 will be if not the last one of the last traditional consoles. Physical media is gone after that. A mini doesn't count nor does the Tectoy SMS in Brazil.

Virtua Hunter
07-09-2019, 07:14 AM
Saga looks better than Shenmue Saturn IMO.

This would be an interesting topic :)
Saga is impressive for many reasons, but it's a little too rough around the edge (no pun intended :D ) in my opinion.
While they are different games, Shenmue Saturn seemed more refined, in any case:

https://www.unseen64.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/12sat.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fmxvlw7mvNM/hqdefault.jpg

https://r.mprd.se/fup/up/138544-Panzer_Dragoon_Saga_(E)_CD2-1.jpg

Shenmue Saturn seemed to use detailed 3D models at the same levels of fighting games (VF2, etc.)
enviroments seems more detailed too, it would've been probably the best 3D game of the 32bit era if released.

Virtua Hunter
07-09-2019, 07:16 AM
Saturn sold 9 million and that's pathetic. Wii U and Vita for example which are colossal failures sold 13 and 14 million. SEGA no doubt failed when they were bankrupt in 2001. Sammy basically saved them (Okawa's donation just kept their head above water for a period)

I'm pretty sure Sega was already out of the red before Sammy arrived.

Team Andromeda
07-10-2019, 04:19 AM
I'm pretty sure Sega was already out of the red before Sammy arrived.

SEGA did get back into the red in 2002 thanks to Virtual Fighter IV in the Arcades, which I'm sure still holds the record for a SEGA coin up in Japan for sales revenue. But the trouble was SEGA had a huge debt mountain and CSK selling it's controlling stake, left SEGA wide open to takeover's

Virtua Hunter
07-11-2019, 10:46 AM
SEGA did get back into the red in 2002 thanks to Virtual Fighter IV in the Arcades, which I'm sure still holds the record for a SEGA coin up in Japan for sales revenue. But the trouble was SEGA had a huge debt mountain and CSK selling it's controlling stake, left SEGA wide open to takeover's

thanks to Okawa, Sega managed to survive and to recreate a profitable business as a software company, I don't remember if it was thanks only to VF4, but in 2002 they were in a "growth phase", basically Sega saved Sega.

I agree, the real backstab was CSK selling its stakes, unfortunately without Okawa and without a console, CSK wasn't interested anymore in Sega, that left us open for Sammy.

When Sammy arrived, Sega was already in good shape financially speaking, they didn't save us, they destroyed us. Internal Sega teams, productive and creative capacity were damaged beyond repair, we operated for a decade or more with the lowest budget and resources ever (despite being backed up by one of the most powerful entertainment companies in Asia, one that could've made and mantained a brand new console without troubles).

Leynos
07-11-2019, 02:52 PM
You keep saying we and us. Did you work for SEGA?

Gryson
07-12-2019, 11:28 PM
thanks to Okawa, Sega managed to survive and to recreate a profitable business as a software company, I don't remember if it was thanks only to VF4, but in 2002 they were in a "growth phase", basically Sega saved Sega.

I agree, the real backstab was CSK selling its stakes, unfortunately without Okawa and without a console, CSK wasn't interested anymore in Sega, that left us open for Sammy.

When Sammy arrived, Sega was already in good shape financially speaking, they didn't save us, they destroyed us. Internal Sega teams, productive and creative capacity were damaged beyond repair, we operated for a decade or more with the lowest budget and resources ever (despite being backed up by one of the most powerful entertainment companies in Asia, one that could've made and mantained a brand new console without troubles).

Sega was not in a "growth phase" in 2002. Its annual revenue was declining, its arcade machine sales were OK (but not as high as late '90s), its consumer business was obviously declining. The company barely managed to make it into the black in FY2003, mostly by cutting costs and downsizing. There's no way you could look at Sega at this time and think the company was healthy. Sega was one of the most recognizable brands in the game industry and yet its net income in 2003 was only $30 million. There's no way to look at that and see "good shape financially speaking."

In order to capitalize on its brand potential, Sega had to have a fresh flow of cash, which is why they were actively pursuing mergers. CSK's core business model was always too far removed from Sega's (and CSK's involvement was really only due to Nakayama and Okawa's relationship). Sammy was willing to take a risk on the brand, for better or worse. Sega just wasn't in a position to do anything about it.

Leynos
07-13-2019, 02:03 AM
This was posted on Twitter. I did not know how expensive Saturn was to develop for

https://i.imgur.com/jLugO8N.jpg

Team Andromeda
07-13-2019, 06:34 AM
This was posted on Twitter. I did not know how expensive Saturn was to develop for

https://i.imgur.com/jLugO8N.jpg

Biggest load or crap ever posted on Twitter ;)

Team Andromeda
07-13-2019, 06:41 AM
thanks to Okawa, Sega managed to survive and to recreate a profitable business as a software company, I don't remember if it was thanks only to VF4, but in 2002 they were in a "growth phase", basically Sega saved Sega.

I agree, the real backstab was CSK selling its stakes, unfortunately without Okawa and without a console, CSK wasn't interested anymore in Sega, that left us open for Sammy.

When Sammy arrived, Sega was already in good shape financially speaking, they didn't save us
It was thanks to VF 4 and heavy cost cutting at SEGA Japan , with Sega outsourcing it's Arcade units manufacturer and being able to them sell its old Arcade manufacturing planet .

Even then the profit was modest and SEGA had billions worth of debt and worst still, it's multi platform strategy didn't work out . SEGA were expected to the new EA and yet even on the PS 2 games didn't sell millions of copies.

That was enough for the CSK shareholders to call it a day and SEGA Japan didn't have enough dosh to buy back the shares, so we got the horrible Sammy Takeover.

Vector
07-13-2019, 12:44 PM
Saturn sold 9 million and that's pathetic.

Dreamcast sold the same right? I don't find selling 10 million of anything pathetic, Saturn was dead in the water in USA yet still managed to sell near 10 million in 90s.


Wii U and Vita for example which are colossal failures sold 13 and 14 million.

I think inflation and circumstances are different, and one of those is a portable. Are you Mr. Sega? You think and type like him.


SEGA no doubt failed when they were bankrupt in 2001. Sammy basically saved them (Okawa's donation just kept their head above water for a period)

Failed? They will sell close to 2 to 5 million hardware minis in 2019/2020.



PS5 will be if not the last one of the last traditional consoles. Physical media is gone after that.

I heard that since 2007.



A mini doesn't count nor does the Tectoy SMS in Brazil.

Actually, when a company makes hardware, mini or not, or has deals for other major manufactures in other countries or help make said system, such as Samsung, Majesto or Tectoy etc - it is hardware.

Leynos
07-13-2019, 12:58 PM
Biggest load or crap ever posted on Twitter ;)

Mind countering with some info and I don't mean a magazine picture. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but be interested in seeing some hard data to counter it.

Vector
07-13-2019, 12:59 PM
Glad you have Saturn in your top 3 (favorite or revered) systems ever =) http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?33000-Saturn-gt-SNES&p=805599&viewfull=1#post805599

Team Andromeda
07-13-2019, 04:16 PM
Mind countering with some info and I don't mean a magazine picture. I'm not saying it's right or wrong but be interested in seeing some hard data to counter it.

I expected better from SEGABOY, but one must make Nintendo look better than SEGA I guess. While I was being slightly sarcastic. You little post doesn't seem to compare the most expensive part of N64 development, which was a Onyx based system starting from 60k, compared the most expensive Saturn development kit, which was the launch programer box starting at 30k

But failing that, I love your little Twitter post doesn't include the Psy-Q Saturn development system, which one could get for 3k.

https://i.imgur.com/FDicYxU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/cjA6lC9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fVIM2tB.jpg

Vector
07-13-2019, 04:32 PM
I'm almost certain that the Saturn sold better in North America, than it did in Europe.

Saturn did better in Japan than Megadrive I think? I think Saturn sold best in Asia then USA then UK areas.