PDA

View Full Version : Plans for DC successor before DC was discontinued



Leynos
03-23-2020, 01:28 AM
With how many interviews about SEGA hardware and such last few years. Is there anything on early plans for the Dreamcast successor before the bottom fell out for SEGA? Typically console makers start preliminary plans for a successor within the first year or two of the current systems lifetime. I don't expect specs and such. Just any talks about early ideas or plans. I know people have their opinion what felt like the successor and all but not what i am asking. Thanks.

stu
03-23-2020, 02:12 AM
In the book Opening the Xbox the author alludes to Sega working on a successor during the time that Microsoft and Sega were in talks about MS buying Sega. Sega wanted the Xbox to be compatible with the 'Dreamcast 2' and also run software from the existing machine. MS weren't interested though. Chapter 17, page 192-194. As far as timelines go it looks like it was around 1999, so very preliminary I'm sure.

Team Andromeda
03-23-2020, 05:28 AM
Actually in one of his last rolls at SEGA after he stepped down, Shoichiro Irimajir was put in charge of SEGA next system looking at servers and the internet to deliver games to the home.

Leynos
03-23-2020, 09:09 PM
I have to open the Xbox but I don't remember that part. INteresting. Been forever since I read it. I do remember them playing with the idea of Xbox being BC with DC games and controllers having VMUs. Everyone has their own views but my personal view is I like to think of Xbox as the extension of DC and 360 as my successor. Seems pretty good bet SEGA would have continued with online services. MS was the only one with the muscle to truly do it however.

SegaDreamcast
03-26-2020, 02:00 AM
As hardware goes, there was supposed to be a zip drive expansion by Iomega. Never got released commercially though. Remember planning to buy it on Day 1. Felt the same about the Nintendo 64DD years prior, which also never got released in the states.

Leynos
03-26-2020, 02:24 AM
Yeah I remember that thing
https://i.imgur.com/TpRqQxx.jpg

Not to mention cable boxes. CD players. DVD players. MP3 players and what not.

Team Andromeda
03-26-2020, 01:59 PM
It's should also be remembered we did get a DC 2 in the shape of NA@MI 2 and no doubt that would have been the tech powering any DC 2 had the DC sold well enough

Leynos
03-26-2020, 02:11 PM
Naomi 2 would be way too weak for 7th gen consoles

Team Andromeda
03-27-2020, 07:44 AM
Naomi 2 would be way too weak for 7th gen consoles

SEGA usual life span was 5 years or so .The NA@MI II more than heled it's own against the PS2 and it would have been fully BC too . Would have been an amazing console in 2001

zyrobs
03-27-2020, 12:29 PM
Remember that the DC predated the 6th gen so a successor could be just something that would bring it up to par with the PS2/GC/Xbox, and the Naomi 2 was pretty much that. But it would have been too expensive as a home console.

turboxray
03-27-2020, 01:00 PM
Remember that the DC predated the 6th gen so a successor could be just something that would bring it up to par with the PS2/GC/Xbox, and the Naomi 2 was pretty much that. But it would have been too expensive as a home console.

How can it predate it, when it's part of it??

Leynos
03-27-2020, 02:03 PM
Remember that the DC predated the 6th gen so a successor could be just something that would bring it up to par with the PS2/GC/Xbox, and the Naomi 2 was pretty much that. But it would have been too expensive as a home console.

It was a 6th gen console. WTF are you smoking?

SegaDreamcast
03-27-2020, 05:39 PM
Yeah I remember that thing
https://i.imgur.com/TpRqQxx.jpg

Not to mention cable boxes. CD players. DVD players. MP3 players and what not.

Zip drive still looks cool 20 years later. I wonder what it was in focus testing groups or the technology itself that made Sega and Nintendo cool off the zip drives domestically. Even Nintendo originally released the 64DD as a mail order exclusive, seemed like a hesitant move. Were they afraid of add-on fatigue perhaps? Dividing or confusing the market? Not enough demand? Maybe a combination of all 3...

zyrobs
03-27-2020, 06:40 PM
DC came out almost two years before the PS2, and it was discontinued just 1 year after the PS2 was released. The rest of the 6th gen consoles came out AFTER the Dreamcast was abandoned. And hardware wise the DC lacked a programmable pixel pipeline that characterized the 6th gen.

Leynos
03-27-2020, 06:42 PM
Aside from SEGA's own financial issues. Iomega was having its own issues. CD-Roms were talking over. They had some lawsuits with the click drive click of death problems. Other mediums like flash memory cards and such were putting Iomega quickly out of date. I'd say both played a part if I had to guess.

j_factor
03-27-2020, 08:06 PM
Zip drive still looks cool 20 years later. I wonder what it was in focus testing groups or the technology itself that made Sega and Nintendo cool off the zip drives domestically. Even Nintendo originally released the 64DD as a mail order exclusive, seemed like a hesitant move. Were they afraid of add-on fatigue perhaps? Dividing or confusing the market? Not enough demand? Maybe a combination of all 3...

I think it's more that by that time, Zip drives were seen as old and outdated technology. It seemed weird to people to play up this thing that was formerly semi-popular on computers but people largely stopped using a few years prior. Granted, the big reason for their demise was CD burners, which wouldn't have been viable for the same purposes. They would have been better off trying a hard drive add-on, or a disk pack drive, or a proprietary large "memory cartridge" or something. The Zip/iomega name was not a plus.

I know I've read that the hard drive in the original Xbox was done to address what Microsoft saw as the DC's shortcomings, particularly in terms of online functions. Along with the decision to not support dial-up.

Team Andromeda
03-28-2020, 08:42 AM
Aside from SEGA's own financial issues. Iomega was having its own issues. CD-Roms were talking over. They had some lawsuits with the click drive click of death problems. Other mediums like flash memory cards and such were putting Iomega quickly out of date. I'd say both played a part if I had to guess.

Zip drive was needed to save data, and a re writable CD Drive cost far more at the time and would need more memory to hold any big files/DLC download via the DC to be burned on a CD. It's a shame as the DC internet functions were spot on otherwise, but held back by the small file size of the VMU.

axel
03-29-2020, 04:55 AM
Zip drive still looks cool 20 years later. I wonder what it was in focus testing groups or the technology itself that made Sega and Nintendo cool off the zip drives domestically. Even Nintendo originally released the 64DD as a mail order exclusive, seemed like a hesitant move. Were they afraid of add-on fatigue perhaps? Dividing or confusing the market? Not enough demand? Maybe a combination of all 3...

It may look cool but it was crap, both the disks and the drives always had serious reliability problems. That's really what doomed the format. If it had been consistent it might have replaced the floppy. If Sega wanted to add rewritable storage in 2001-2002 they should have just gone with a 3.5" hard drive. Although I'm not sure how much that would have helped. An improved CPU/GPU/more RAM/DVD drive would have been a better use of resources.

Team Andromeda
03-29-2020, 08:21 AM
Although I'm not sure how much that would have helped. An improved CPU/GPU/more RAM/DVD drive would have been a better use of resources.

There a few factors to bare in mind. SEGA was looking into adding better storage than the VMU in the last '90s and I don't think anyone there knew of the issues of Zip Drives and TBH I never remember anyone with them, saying they had issues only how amazing there were; It can be easy to look back at things with the benefit of hidsight. Also I think yet another add on more GPU more Ram would have been the last thing SEGA needed.

In 2002/3 imo it would have been better for SEGA to go with NA@MI II powered DC II with a DVD drive if the DC had sold in decent numbers of 50 million uints or so. Its still amazing to see how much better VF 4 looks on a the NA@MI II to the PS2 version. NA@MI II was such a awesome set up for the price.

Yharnamresident
04-02-2020, 05:33 AM
Naomi 2 would be way too weak for 7th gen consoles

Yes, way too weak. You weren't gonna be seeing 7th gen hardware that came out in 2000. The Naomi 2 can't even do 500,000 polygons at 60 FPS which is a low-range PS3/360 game. 7th gen hardware is mid-2000s.

Also I don't think Sega was ever planning to make a Dreamcast successor. They knew Sony was too tough of competition, they were likely planning for the Dreamcast to sell 20-30 million and then that was it, they were done making consoles.


But lets say they were planning to make a Dreamcast successor, and it came out in 2004. Theres actually a arcade board that came out in 2004, the Taito Type X. The Dreamcast successor could've been similar to this in terms of capabilities:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGVl4LSi2W0

Team Andromeda
04-02-2020, 05:48 AM
Type X was a hugely expensive Arcade board , over double the price of NA@MI II . NA@M II was great tech and would have been a hugely powerful console in 2001 if SEGA launch along side the Arcade launch , like with the original DC.

I very much doubt SEGA would ever have the money to out do the 360 or PS3 tech , given that I read the GPU inside the 360 cost over half a billion dollars to develop on its own.

Virtua Hunter
04-02-2020, 09:59 AM
Don't forget guys that Nintendo, by making an underpowered cheap junk hardware (wii) made a ludicrous success and returned to be a relevant company in the console biz, in the same generation where Sony and MS were pushing with the HD craze and Hollywood budgets...

So here was a way for Sega to continue their hardware business.

In the best case scenario, probably a console based on the Lindbergh board (that was basically pc hardware) could have been reasonable cost-wise and still give performance of a 7th gen.
If not an option, there was always the way to recycle and improve the NAOMI 2 as a new console, after all like I said Nintendo made a success with an hardware from a previous generation...

axel
04-02-2020, 12:38 PM
I don't know how anyone can say a Naomi 2 would be "too weak" considering the Wii isn't any better and a Dreamcast 2 would likely have launched 2-3 years earlier. If it had good games that's all that would have mattered.

The other thing I would have liked to see is a portable DC around 2004-2005, there are mobile versions of the SuperH architecture so it could have been doable.

Virtua Hunter
04-02-2020, 06:34 PM
I don't know how anyone can say a Naomi 2 would be "too weak" considering the Wii isn't any better and a Dreamcast 2 would likely have launched 2-3 years earlier. If it had good games that's all that would have mattered.




Exactly.



The other thing I would have liked to see is a portable DC around 2004-2005, there are mobile versions of the SuperH architecture so it could have been doable.

I remember some Sega people mentioning in 2001-2002 the possibility of Dreamcast included in mobile devices.

Leynos
04-02-2020, 06:49 PM
SEGA isn't Nintendo. SEGA was more about pushing specs. Nintendo is a more conservative and very different approach to things. So unless Naomi had some gimmick to outdo Wii and was targeting grandmas and people who never played games before then yes Naomi 2 was too weak. Wii's power was a non-issue because of the demographic it targeted. So if SEGA was aiming for a serious crowd by 7th gen Naomi 2 would not cut it.


As for a portable DC. I provided that article in another thread but it was around 2004-2005 called Dreamcast on a chip. That's what I wanted for a portable SEGA machine in 2005-2006. It was on paper-pushing 5 million Polygons a second at max. It was a little stronger than the DC but was built off that hardware.

Yharnamresident
04-02-2020, 11:04 PM
I very much doubt SEGA would ever have the money to out do the 360 or PS3 tech , given that I read the GPU inside the 360 cost over half a billion dollars to develop on its own.Its not hard to come close to PS3/360 specifications just by using off the shelf parts.



Don't forget guys that Nintendo, by making an underpowered cheap junk hardware (wii) made a ludicrous success and returned to be a relevant company in the console biz, in the same generation where Sony and MS were pushing with the HD craze and Hollywood budgets...But this is really the last thing any of us would've wanted them to do. I think we're all hardcore gamers in this thread.

Though the sad reality is, we know the reason Nintendo went this route is because they learned they can't compete with Sony and Microsoft, so it would be a similar case for Sega.



In the best case scenario, probably a console based on the Lindbergh board (that was basically pc hardware) could have been reasonable cost-wise and still give performance of a 7th gen.
http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=731&page=1


CPU : Intel Pentium 4 3.0G HT (800Mhz FSB - 1MB L2 Cache)
GFX : NVIDIA GeForce 6 Series GPU
GFX Memory : 256MB (256 bit GDDR3)
GFX Capabilities : Vertex Shader 3.0, Pixel Shader 3.0
Resolution : HDTV (High Definition)
RAM : 1024MB 184pin DDR SD-RAM PC3200 (2x 512MB DDR 400 sticks)
LAN : 10/100/1000 TBase Gigabit Network
Other : DVD Drive Support, USB2.0 (x4) - Sega ALL.NET online support.

The Lindbergh is pure 7th gen hardware. Just change the main RAM to 512 MB then you got a home console.



SEGA isn't Nintendo. SEGA was more about pushing specs. Nintendo is a more conservative and very different approach to things. So unless Naomi had some gimmick to outdo Wii and was targeting grandmas and people who never played games before then yes Naomi 2 was too weak. Wii's power was a non-issue because of the demographic it targeted. So if SEGA was aiming for a serious crowd by 7th gen Naomi 2 would not cut it.
Leynos(I'll finally start using your proper name), are you telling me you don't like swinging dildos in front of a TV screen?

axel
04-03-2020, 12:59 AM
By the 2000s it was obvious that better hardware did not necessarily equal more sales. The PS2 is the best selling console of all time despite being weaker than the GC or XBox. The fact that games continued to be made for the Naomi 2 and Atomiswave showed there was plenty of life left in that architecture. Sega was always an innovator when it came to hardware, they would have come up with features nobody else was thinking about at the time (upgraded VMUs, maybe?)

Leynos
04-03-2020, 03:26 AM
So if SEGA used lower power hardware as a successor I think DC on a chip would work best. 5-6 million PPS. Portable and dock to a TV. The Switch idea before Switch. So as powerful as 6th gen consoles in the 7th gen but portable. https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/57324-renesas-announces-dreamcast-on-a-chip a step further than PSP. This would be a device on its own. Not entirely invading the dedicated handheld space nor the home console space.

This would be above a PSP in power. I'd use carts ranging from 128MB to 256MB to 512MB. DS carts maxed out at 512 I believe but rarely used. Tho DS was a much less capable device. I could see some DC ports compressed to those sizes esp with a lower resolution, likely similar to PSP of 480x270.

Yharnamresident
04-03-2020, 03:39 AM
Lindbergh is the best idea.


https://youtu.be/qRpWAy6F21U

This definitely looks similar to PS3/360.

axel
04-03-2020, 03:44 AM
So if SEGA used lower power hardware as a successor I think DC on a chip would work best. 5-6 million PPS. Portable and dock to a TV. The Switch idea before Switch. So as powerful as 6th gen consoles in the 7th gen but portable. https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/57324-renesas-announces-dreamcast-on-a-chip a step further than PSP. This would be a device on its own. Not entirely invading the dedicated handheld space nor the home console space.

This would be above a PSP in power. I'd use carts ranging from 128MB to 256MB to 512MB. DS carts maxed out at 512 I believe but rarely used. Tho DS was a much less capable device. I could see some DC ports compressed to those sizes esp with a lower resolution, likely similar to PSP of 480x270.

That would have been doable and in fact they could have kept the 640x480 resolution if necessary. There was a company in San Francisco around that time, called OQO, they had built a pocket PC with a 4" VGA resolution LCD. (The 2004 production version was 800x480 but the prototypes circa 2002 were all 640x480). So the technology was there. You would not get great battery life on something like that, maybe 3, 3.5 hours, but if the idea is to dock it to a TV for longer sessions then it doesn't matter. In fact it would still be cool if Sega licensed a product like that today, just like the Genesis clones.

Carts would have been fine, that's what the NAOMI used so no great loss for most of the games, maybe just drop cut scenes that everyone skips anyway.

Leynos
04-03-2020, 03:45 AM
I agree that I'd want something on par with 360 but I was offering the alternative for those suggesting lower-spec hardware. The portable hybrid I proposed is IMO one-way SEGA could get away with having something lower spec. There had to be a reason why it would be lower spec and excused. Wii could be excused for the gimmick and demographic. Same if SEGA did what I proposed. If they just flat out made Naomi 2 as a home console and nothing else. It's dead. If they made a true console then yes being on par with 360 and using those parts would be perfect.

j_factor
04-03-2020, 04:32 AM
Carts would have been fine, that's what the NAOMI used so no great loss for most of the games, maybe just drop cut scenes that everyone skips anyway.

Like half of Naomi games were on GD-rom.

Leynos
04-03-2020, 05:10 AM
That would have been doable and in fact they could have kept the 640x480 resolution if necessary. There was a company in San Francisco around that time, called OQO, they had built a pocket PC with a 4" VGA resolution LCD. (The 2004 production version was 800x480 but the prototypes circa 2002 were all 640x480). So the technology was there. You would not get great battery life on something like that, maybe 3, 3.5 hours, but if the idea is to dock it to a TV for longer sessions then it doesn't matter. In fact it would still be cool if Sega licensed a product like that today, just like the Genesis clones.

Carts would have been fine, that's what the NAOMI used so no great loss for most of the games, maybe just drop cut scenes that everyone skips anyway.

I remember the OQO. I don't think that resolution is needed. PSP resolution is fine but keeping the DPI high (for the time) at 120-130 would be best. Good batt life. Sharp looking screen even if a lower resolution and opens the GPU up more without needing to do more work in portable mode. Similar to the Switch. 720P screen but a high PPI so it looks great despite a lower resolution. Yes I know DPI and PPI not the same but just saying similar ideas and execution.

Team Andromeda
04-03-2020, 06:02 AM
Its not hard to come close to PS3/360 specifications just

It is, when you want shrink them down into a console and look to sell it at a reasonable price . MS could afford to take the hit, SEGA couldn't. Btw I seem to remember SEGA asking for 1,600 per linberg board (just the boards it's self ) and that just ,pretty standard and old PC parts

Team Andromeda
04-03-2020, 06:11 AM
By the 2000s it was obvious that better hardware did not necessarily equal more sales. The PS2 is the best selling console of all time despite being weaker than the GC or XBox. The fact that games continued to be made for the Naomi 2 and Atomiswave showed there was plenty of life left in that architecture. Sega was always an innovator when it came to hardware, they would have come up with features nobody else was thinking about at the time (upgraded VMUs, maybe?)

Exactly..SEGA never had the money in the bank to afford spending billions on just GPU development.So maybe it would have been nice to see SEGA go a different route 'had' the DC sold 30 to 40 million units

A beefed up NA@MI 2 DC 2 for the home with full BC with the DC, SEGA pushing on with the internet features more and all its teams working on their own Hardware and a flow of SEGA Arcade ports . Maybe wouldn't have been mainstream, but it would have been awesome for the SEGA die-hard and given NA@MI OK tech had already been finished, not that costly in R&D.

Though maybe the console would have been a little pricy LOL. It's quite amazing how good VF 4 still looks on a real NA@MI 2 board

Yharnamresident
04-03-2020, 08:17 AM
It is, when you want shrink them down into a console and look to sell it at a reasonable price . MS could afford to take the hit, SEGA couldn't. Btw I seem to remember SEGA asking for 1,600 per linberg board (just the boards it's self ) and that just ,pretty standard and old PC parts

But wasn't the Naomi expensive when it first came out? The Naomi is only a Dreamcast with more RAM and a better GPU. Ironically those are the exact cuts they would make to the Lindberg console version.

Virtua Hunter
04-03-2020, 10:23 AM
But this is really the last thing any of us would've wanted them to do. I think we're all hardcore gamers in this thread.

Though the sad reality is, we know the reason Nintendo went this route is because they learned they can't compete with Sony and Microsoft, so it would be a similar case for Sega.



Yup, but given the alternative (abandon the console business, resulting in a massive and irremediable damage to their creative and production capacity), I think the Nintendo route was the best choice also for Sega.
The key objective should have been to remain active in the hardware business at all costs.

And who knows, maybe Sega could have found again massive success like the Wii, imagine a Sega Switch/Nomad2 for example.
The industry become bigger, there are more chance to make success now than in the 90's.








http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=731&page=1



The Lindbergh is pure 7th gen hardware. Just change the main RAM to 512 MB then you got a home console.



Yes it's a pure 7th gen, it's technically weaker than Ps3 and 360, but it produce amazing graphics, for example VF5 is still one of the best looking fighting games ever made, even compared to current PS4-XOne fighting games.
It would have been a great console...

But if the Lindbergh option was too expensive, a simply improved Naomi 2 console could have been great too, probably better than Wii graphic-wise (I never seen something comparable to VF4 on the nintendo system, Naomi 2 was a beast).

Team Andromeda
04-03-2020, 12:59 PM
But wasn't the Naomi expensive when it first came out? The Naomi is only a Dreamcast with more RAM and a better GPU. Ironically those are the exact cuts they would make to the Lindberg console version.

No, It was quite cheap in comparison to other boards, which was why most smaller developers looked to use it, long after SEGA looked to drop it, rather than Type X.
The likes of G Rev said about the high costs of Type X was far too high per board

Team Andromeda
04-03-2020, 01:07 PM
Yes it's a pure 7th gen, it's technically weaker than Ps3 and 360, but it produce amazing graphics, for example VF5 is still one of the best looking fighting games ever made, even compared to current PS4-XOne fighting games.
It would have been a great console...


You quite right, but a lot of that is thanks to the skill of AM#2. I also think Lets Go Jungle looked incredible too, but it's very much on-rails, never mind the cost of trying to sell a PC rig at consoles prices But thats 2005 tech. If the DC had sold well enough, I think SEGA would have looked to go in 2001/2.

NA@MI2 was awesome tech, and it just seemed SEGA worked best on their own Hardware, with the rare exception of Xbox and Chihiro

j_factor
04-03-2020, 02:11 PM
The Naomi 2 isn't workable as a console. They wanted to keep the same architecture, but PowerVR was having issues with not progressing on time. So the Naomi 2 has the same GPU as the Dreamcast/Naomi, except it has two of them, plus a T&L coprocessor. PowerVR didn't have hardware T&L until much later, which was kind of why it stopped being an option for PC cards. Lack of T&L in the GPU could be made up for with a fast CPU, but the SH-4 never got a successor. As good as the Dreamcast hardware was for its time, its CPU and GPU were both dead-end architecture. Another console would've been something completely different.

Team Andromeda
04-04-2020, 05:05 AM
I doing see how could say that NA@MI II couldn't be made into a console and I read that IT moved away from PC GFX cards as the Power VR line failed to see good sales after Power VR 4 and the mobile sector was becoming for more profitable for them.

I would have though the tech would have been good enough for SEGA and it's teams in 2001\2. Not that I would ever say or think that by 2005 SEGA would have the money to out do Sony or MS for tech or take a hit on each console sold like those could (it almost killed Sony at one stage). Only NCL had that kind of money in the bank.

But of a shame mind too, that SEGA didn't look to work with Nvidia more after the Saturn..

Yharnamresident
06-17-2020, 03:19 AM
I've wanted to bring up this thread for a while



The Naomi 2 isn't workable as a console. They wanted to keep the same architecture, but PowerVR was having issues with not progressing on time. So the Naomi 2 has the same GPU as the Dreamcast/Naomi, except it has two of them, plus a T&L coprocessor. PowerVR didn't have hardware T&L until much later, which was kind of why it stopped being an option for PC cards. Lack of T&L in the GPU could be made up for with a fast CPU, but the SH-4 never got a successor. As good as the Dreamcast hardware was for its time, its CPU and GPU were both dead-end architecture. Another console would've been something completely different.Yes you are right. I hate to take pot shots at TA while hes on paid vacation and can't reply to me, but he has a fascination with Naomi 2 and theres simply no way it'd be made into a console. 2 GPUs in a console? Sega already tried that and it was a huge disaster.


The Lindbergh absolutely would've been the successor to the Dreamcast. They designed the board with the same CPU/GPU/RAM/VRAM architecture as the Dreamcast, its really a 7th gen Dreamcast.

Also it simply couldn't have been too expensive. A console with a P4 3.0 GHz, Geforce 6, 256 MB DDR, 256 MB GDDR3, thats like the most generic 7th gen hardware that could exist in 2004/2005. If any company was gonna release a 7th gen console using off-the-shelve parts, thats what it would've looked like.


I want you guys to watch these videos and imagine the Lindbergh as a Sega home console:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k42QY6lIHwA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0InzEcMN6xE

(This After Burner game really shows how similar the hardware is to PS3/360. Tons of advanced light-sourcing, per-pixel lighting, water might be bump-mapped, all running at 720p60)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htQpocdG5uk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEpqtdgEmEI

Leynos
06-17-2020, 04:28 AM
Looks very 7th gen but the Tennis one has a fatal flaw. Players have no shadows. Overall this is exactly what I wanted to see. Seeing this made me happy and let me imagine. I will think of 360 as my personal DC 2 and OG Xbox as DC 1.5. This however is great. Now I just wish I knew how to render and I'd make a concept. For now, will just have to see the 360 OG design and replace it with a SEGA logo lol.

axel
06-17-2020, 06:42 AM
Yes that would have been great for a home console in 2005-2006. I think people like me who wanted to see an upgraded Dreamcast/Naomi 2 were thinking it would be released in 2001, at a time when an incremental upgrade with a DVD drive would have made sense. Having two GPUs is less problematic when they are two of the same GPU, unlike the Saturn.

The way I could have seen Naomi-based hardware continuing in 2005 and beyond is with a portable console. There was a mobile implementation of the SH-4 around that time and I know Microsoft made pocket PCs on the SH hardware so it would have been technically feasible.

Other than that I agree with you, PC-based would have been a good way to stay in the hardware game and keep costs down.

Yharnamresident
06-18-2020, 03:43 AM
Looks very 7th gen but the Tennis one has a fatal flaw. Players have no shadows.I was wondering about that, I was thinking it was a emulator glitch but the rest of the stuff have shadows. Must've been Sega trying to save RAM/bandwidth using a bad method.


Seeing this made me happy and let me imagine.Then the goal of my post was accomplished. Theres a couple more Lindbergh games and I actually ignored the most popular game released for the platform.



The way I could have seen Naomi-based hardware continuing in 2005 and beyond is with a portable console. There was a mobile implementation of the SH-4 around that time and I know Microsoft made pocket PCs on the SH hardware so it would have been technically feasible.For a handheld it would be absolutely perfect. A lot of people say the PSP is about the same power as the Dreamcast, you know when the PSP was released? Mid-2000s.

Virtua Hunter
06-18-2020, 12:42 PM
For Virtua Tennis it's probably some issue with gfx board.
Original lindbergh and console version all have shadows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsW2Rh0Ud-4

In any case Lindbergh would have been awesome as Dreamcast 2 :(

Leynos
06-18-2020, 02:02 PM
I was wondering about that, I was thinking it was a emulator glitch but the rest of the stuff have shadows. Must've been Sega trying to save RAM/bandwidth using a bad method.

Then the goal of my post was accomplished. Theres a couple more Lindbergh games and I actually ignored the most popular game released for the platform.


For a handheld it would be absolutely perfect. A lot of people say the PSP is about the same power as the Dreamcast, you know when the PSP was released? Mid-2000s.

I mentioneed this earlier in the thread and this would be more powerful than PSP https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/57324-renesas-announces-dreamcast-on-a-chip

Yharnamresident
06-19-2020, 12:46 AM
For Virtua Tennis it's probably some issue with gfx board.
Original lindbergh and console version all have shadows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsW2Rh0Ud-4

In any case Lindbergh would have been awesome as Dreamcast 2 :(

So the emulator can emulate bloom fine, yet it can't emulate player shadows. Makes a lot of sense.

Yes its fun to imagine it as a Dreamcast successor, however I think most people here besides SegaAMD know there wasn't even a 1% chance that Sega was thinking of making a console version of the Lindbergh.



I mentioneed this earlier in the thread and this would be more powerful than PSP https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/57324-renesas-announces-dreamcast-on-a-chipA Hitachi/PowerVR APU. This would've been very good for a Dreamcast Slim. I know thats for a handheld, though in all honesty I have no interest in handhelds after I became older than ~17.

Leynos
06-19-2020, 12:56 AM
https://i.imgur.com/ex0rqf4.jpg

Yharnamresident
06-19-2020, 01:17 AM
I can't take that picture seriously, Leynos you do know those 2 people did actually get married in real life for a brief while?

axel
06-19-2020, 01:18 AM
I mentioneed this earlier in the thread and this would be more powerful than PSP https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/57324-renesas-announces-dreamcast-on-a-chip

Wow, it really could have happened. Was that SoC ever used in anything?