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Shinobi69
01-13-2006, 09:18 AM
I finally got a genesis that works correctly, and the AV cables. Only problem is, the games have verticlal lines in the background. They aren't totally making the games unplayable, but just in the background (especially when certain colors are on the screen) you can see these vertical lines in the background. This is using the AV cables, with the video plug in the video jack. Has anyone experienced this?

segagamer
01-13-2006, 01:13 PM
I have that problem as well, and I think it is because it was the early revision of model 1. The later model 1 with hardware lock-out/regional check program does not have the problem you and I have encountered.

Shinobi69
01-13-2006, 01:31 PM
I have that problem as well, and I think it is because it was the early revision of model 1. The later model 1 with hardware lock-out/regional check program does not have the problem you and I have encountered.

my genesis is a model 2 though.. :?

Joe Redifer
01-13-2006, 01:39 PM
Slap a 32X on there with all of the proper cables and it will go away.

Genesis Knight
01-13-2006, 01:43 PM
I think I'm having the same problems...my thread is in Tech Aid.

Shinobi69
01-13-2006, 01:50 PM
Slap a 32X on there with all of the proper cables and it will go away.

From what i've read, isn't a bitch to install the 32X? is there a certain cable that has to be modded or something? does the 32X improve the picture quality of Genesis games at all?

Obviously
01-13-2006, 04:05 PM
I don't know where you read that. Why would an official product require you to mod your system? Installing a 32X is as easy as inserting it like a game and hooking it up like any other system. Just make sure you get one with both cables (The power cable and the cable that connects to the Genesis) and the metal clips that help hold it in place on the Model 2.

Shinobi69
01-13-2006, 04:20 PM
I don't know where you read that. Why would an official product require you to mod your system? Installing a 32X is as easy as inserting it like a game and hooking it up like any other system. Just make sure you get one with both cables (The power cable and the cable that connects to the Genesis) and the metal clips that help hold it in place on the Model 2.

Obviously: have you noticed that playing Genesis games throught the 32X gets rid of those vertical lines in the background of some Genesis games?

Obviously
01-13-2006, 04:33 PM
I can't really answer that because I've never had the problem. Sorry.

Joe Redifer
01-13-2006, 06:00 PM
I'm telling you that it does. Genesis games look sharper through the 32X because the 32X has a much better RGB-to-composite chip than the regular Genesis (at least the model 1).

Joe Redifer
01-13-2006, 06:50 PM
OK this was the best I could do. Check out the two pics from the opening of Revenge of Shinobi below:

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/genesis.jpg
See the colored vertical lines? Are these what you are talking about?

No check out:

http://pixelcraze.film-tech.net/crap/32x.jpg
This is the same game and the same system, but running through a 32X. The 32X cleans up the composite video considerably.

Shinobi69
01-14-2006, 01:49 AM
awesome job Joe Redifer, you're the kind of providing examples! looks like the 32x may be the easiest way to get rid of these lines. it gets rid of them for all games?

Joe Redifer
01-14-2006, 04:42 AM
Yes. Basically what the 32X does is take the RGB output from the Genesis as its input. It then goes through a genlock and a whole bunch of other nonsense all in the RGB domain. The 32X composite video chip is much better than the one inside the Genesis 1, or maybe even the Genesis 2 (I've never seen a model 2 that wasn't burning in the trash). So the lines will always be gone with the 32X if you have it hooked up properly (all the patch cables and whatnot). I never take my 32X off of my Genesis unless I use the Power Base Converter to play Master System games.

Obviously
01-14-2006, 08:20 AM
(I've never seen a model 2 that wasn't burning in the trash)

Oh now that's a low blow... :bull:

Shinobi69
01-16-2006, 09:46 AM
Yes. Basically what the 32X does is take the RGB output from the Genesis as its input. It then goes through a genlock and a whole bunch of other nonsense all in the RGB domain. The 32X composite video chip is much better than the one inside the Genesis 1, or maybe even the Genesis 2 (I've never seen a model 2 that wasn't burning in the trash). So the lines will always be gone with the 32X if you have it hooked up properly (all the patch cables and whatnot). I never take my 32X off of my Genesis unless I use the Power Base Converter to play Master System games.

I recently got the AV cables (video jack, audio jacks) for the genesis 2, and i noticed that the picture is kinda noisy, almost more so than using the RF adapter. Will using a 32X help clean up video noise as well?

Joe Redifer
01-16-2006, 03:56 PM
That I do not know. My model 1 is not noisey without a 32X, but it does have the vertical bars. When using the 32X, the RGB is output from the Genesis to the device, so I wouldn't think it would be noisey.

Timstuff
10-28-2008, 06:42 PM
Sorry if anyone is annoyed by me bumping up such an old thread, but I too am getting a somewhat noisy picture on my model 2 Genesis's image, and it's hooked up through composite A/V cables. Has anyone been able to confirm that a 32x will solve the problem? I hate the thought of having to keep one hooked up to my Genny on a regular basis just to get a clean picture, but is that the only option with a model 2 genesis? Do all model 2s have the vertical line / noise problem when hooked up through AV, or is it only a specific run of them?

If a 32x is what it takes to get a crystal clear image out of the genesis, then I might consider doing a "neptune mod" on my Genesis at some point in the future, if I can find a 32x at a decent price. It'd sure be a lot of hassle, though...

Joe Redifer
10-29-2008, 04:33 AM
It'd be easier to get a new Genesis.

Timstuff
10-29-2008, 02:45 PM
Hah, I just thought of that. I know that the obvious solution would be just to get a Model 1, but I'm one of those weird people who prefers the model 2's design (also, my brother owns a model 1). So, is there a model 2 genesis out there that doesn't have the "sega lines" problem? Are they significantly rarer than the ones with crappy picture quality, and is there a specific model number to keep an eye out for?

TmEE
10-29-2008, 05:12 PM
If you'd use RGB you won't get any lines, or use 32X for better Composhit conversion as mentioned before... I personally would just locate a RGB to YUV converter and enjoy the best possible image on any system you have that can output RGB (MD, SMS, Saturn, DC, SNES....).

evildragon
10-29-2008, 06:01 PM
I get lines on RGB out of a non-tms model 1, but only on SOME TVs..

Ace
10-29-2008, 07:11 PM
I get noise out of these systems:

-VA3 Model 1(this has no TMSS), but this one only has vertical rainbow-colored stripes(not sure what's up with that).
-VA1 to VA1.8 Model 2 - The image on these units is disgusting: highly pixellated and noisy. This is all because of a stupid RGB>Composite encoder used in those Model 2s(even worse than the one used in the Model 1) that's incredibly cheap(it's made by Samsung). Some Model 2s(most VA2s and all VA3s and VA4s) are spared from this garbage because they use a much higher-quality video encoder, the Sony CXA1645(the video encoders rank like this: CXA1645(Genesis 3/most VA2 Genesis 2s/VA3 Genesis 2/VA4 Genesis 2), CXA1145(few Genesis 2s and all Genesis 1s), KA2195D(most Genesis 2s; the source of the noisy image)). It's not too obvious to spot a VA2 Genesis 2 with a CXA1645 encoder unless you open it or turn it on. VA3s and VA4s are much easier to spot, as they have an open space through the bottom air vents. Typically, a Genesis 2 has a big silver-colored aluminum plate that goes through all the air vents. VA3s and VA4s have that same plate, but also have a black, open space(those models have motherboards that take up 3/4 of the casing).

Timstuff
10-29-2008, 09:37 PM
It figures that Sony would put out a superior chip than Samsung. :p

So what I need to look for is a Genesis that has black space underneath parts of the bottom vents, instead of just metal (like mine has)? Interesting... So how rare are they? I'd definitely like to pick one up if I can find one, although that might be a bit tricky in my current living suitation since I'm in a dorm with no car, and I pretty much have to buy everything through the mail. :(

If I can somehow get ahold of a VA3 or VA4 before Christmas, I might give my VA1 to my little cousins.

tomaitheous
10-30-2008, 11:39 AM
I get lines on RGB out of a non-tms model 1, but only on SOME TVs..

Well, technically you're running it through a component converter and not directly RGB.

Ace
10-30-2008, 09:02 PM
It figures that Sony would put out a superior chip than Samsung. :p

lol :p


So what I need to look for is a Genesis that has black space underneath parts of the bottom vents, instead of just metal (like mine has)? Interesting... So how rare are they? I'd definitely like to pick one up if I can find one, although that might be a bit tricky in my current living suitation since I'm in a dorm with no car, and I pretty much have to buy everything through the mail. :(

I own 2 of the 3/4 motherboard Genesis 2s out of the 9 Genesis 2s I have lying around my house. They are pretty hard to come by. Even while I was on vacation in New Hampshire this summer, the video game store I went to had only 2 3/4 motherboard Genesis 2s out of an undisclosed amount of systems(at least 10-15 Genesis 2s, that's for sure), both of them VA4s. So yeah, like I said, 3/4 motherboard units are pretty hard to come by, as they were the newer versions of the system and were released between late 1994(VA3) and 1996(VA4, at least that's what the VA4 motherboard says), when the Genesis was on its way out(they're certainly easier to come by that a Genesis 3).
Some VA4s have a different model number on the sticker underneath the unit. Typically, a Genesis 2 has model number MK-1631, but very late Genesis 2s(which happened to be released by Majesco before the Genesis 3 came along) have model number MK-1451(this is what tells it's a Majesco system, as the Genesis 3 has model number MK-1461).

evildragon
10-30-2008, 09:15 PM
Well, technically you're running it through a component converter and not directly RGB.
true true.. i figured that if it's taking the composite sync and putting it on the luma line it'll still have the effect is present.

Timstuff
10-31-2008, 03:20 AM
lol :p



I own 2 of the 3/4 motherboard Genesis 2s out of the 9 Genesis 2s I have lying around my house. They are pretty hard to come by. Even while I was on vacation in New Hampshire this summer, the video game store I went to had only 2 3/4 motherboard Genesis 2s out of an undisclosed amount of systems(at least 10-15 Genesis 2s, that's for sure), both of them VA4s. So yeah, like I said, 3/4 motherboard units are pretty hard to come by, as they were the newer versions of the system and were released between late 1994(VA3) and 1996(VA4, at least that's what the VA4 motherboard says), when the Genesis was on its way out(they're certainly easier to come by that a Genesis 3).
Some VA4s have a different model number on the sticker underneath the unit. Typically, a Genesis 2 has model number MK-1631, but very late Genesis 2s(which happened to be released by Majesco before the Genesis 3 came along) have model number MK-1451(this is what tells it's a Majesco system, as the Genesis 3 has model number MK-1461).

Hmm... Well, I suppose my best bet would be to check Game Crazy and the local used game shops if I want to find one. My odds might not be great, but as long as the people running the shops don't have problems with people peeking at the underside of a game console, it's worth a try.

Timstuff
11-06-2008, 04:45 PM
I just found out that the Sega Genesis 2s put out by Majesco are incompatible with both the Sega CD and 32x peripherals. Are all 3/4 PCB Genesis 2s made without add-on compatibility, or is it only the very late ones produced by Majesco? I know that Majesco's Game Gears were incompatible with the TV tuner, so was this only something that was removed solely at Majesco's choice?

Ugh, Genesis 2... It has such a sexy exterior, yet it's such a pain to get one that does everything you want it to. Headaches like this are certainly something that Genesis does that Nintendon't, lol.

TmEE
11-06-2008, 05:03 PM
A real MD2 does work with MCD and 32X. Mine is doing 3some with MCD and 32X right now :P

Ace
11-06-2008, 07:01 PM
It's Majesco's Genesis 3 that's incompatible with all add-ons(Majesco Genesis 2s are VA4 Genesis 2s, which are compatible with everything). No 3/4 motherboard Genesis 2s are incompatible with any add-ons or Virtua Racing.

Timstuff
11-07-2008, 04:06 PM
It's Majesco's Genesis 3 that's incompatible with all add-ons(Majesco Genesis 2s are VA4 Genesis 2s, which are compatible with everything). No 3/4 motherboard Genesis 2s are incompatible with any add-ons or Virtua Racing.

I found this thread at Digital Press that states that Majesco Genesis 2s don't work with peripherals:


I forgot to tell you guys something: Neither 32X nor Sega CD will work with Majesco Genesis 2 units. Yes, I said 2. I bought a 2nd gen.2 when they were $20 at Wal Mart (a few years back), and tried to hook it up to the rest of my "rig". It didn't work at all, though it would work by itself. I thought it was odd (since my other Gen 2. worked with all components, and then I started looking all over the box. I noticed that it (a late model Gen. 2) was manufactured and licensed by Majesco. This was around the same time that Frogger appeared in stores (for SNES and Gen.), as well as other Majesco re-releases.
I think I actually opened the instruction manual to find out that it indeed would not work with Sega CD or 32X. Odd. Anyway, I remember noticing that the edge connector (which would attach to the Sega CD) seemed almost like it had a dark epoxy coating over it, as opposed to the green PCB/copper contacts look of all other Genesis edge connectors.


To make a long story short...if you can't get 32X or Sega CD to work with your Genesis 2, then check the manufacture date and the look of the edge connector. It's a good bet that it's a Majesco release. And it goes without asaying that the Genesis 3 works with neither as well, if for no other reason tan physical incompatibility (it's more, but that's just the start).

http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?p=56008#post56008

So, that's a bit confusing to me. I'm pretty sure from the sounds of it that both Majesco's Genesis 2s and Genesis 3s use the same PCB, which lacks some hardware that's necessary to make addons work, including the connector for the CD drive. So with that in mind, a Majesco Sega Genesis is not the route to go if you want to have your cake and eat it too (aka having good picture quality and addon compatibility in a Model 2 casing).

So I guess my real question now is, are all 3/4 PCB Model 2 Genesis systems made by Majesco, and if not, are the ones made by Sega still compatible with the add ons? I'm pretty sure that the Majesco ones that aren't peripheral compatible are the VA4s, since they are the most recent. The VA3 is also has a 3/4 PCB, and is probably distinguishable by the model number on the bottom of the board. So does anyone know if the VA3 is add-on compatible or not? And how rare is it compared to the VA2?

It's looking like if I want the best model 2, the VA2 is a solid piece of hardware, but the VA3 potentially might be as well. Actually finding one of either will be a serious pain in the butt though, because as Ace said, VA2s look pretty much the same on the outside as VA1s and VA1.8s. Does anyone know if there's a different model number listed on VA2s base, or any other markings that make it possible to identify without actually testing it?

Timstuff
11-07-2008, 04:22 PM
Ahh! I just looked at the connector strip on my Genesis, and it's also covered in black epoxy! Tried scratching it with a knife and it looks like there's copper connectors underneath, but still this is baffling to me. It looks like this is a full circuit board Genesis 2, and the picture quality on it is definitely crap, so that would imply that it's a VA1 or VA1.8, but why is the connector for the CD covered in this black crap? I am REALLY confused now.

The label on the bottom of my Genesis says the model number is MK-1631. So if this is a newer Genesis with no CD compatibility, why does it have a full PCB and crappy picture quality? And if it's an old one, why didn't Sega want me hooking anything up to the connector strip?

*UPDATE*

I opened up my Genesis, and it has "VA1" printed right onto the PCB. So why is there dark epoxy all over the connector? What's the best way to go about removing it? This obviously won't be my primary genesis once I find a VA2 or VA3, but even so, if I should obtain a Sega CD before then I should like to be able to use it!

*UPDATE 2*

I just was at retro-console.com/ (http://www.retro-console.com/) and saw that the Sega Genesis they used for their Neptune conversion is a VA3, which is a 3/4 PCB Model 2. It also has a regularly accessible Sega CD connector strip, which tells me it works fine with the Sega CD too.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9418/hpim4440eq3.jpg

So it looks like the only real lemons are the Majesco Model 2s, and the VA1-1.8 Model 2s. VA2 and VA3 Model 2s should be perfectly fine for just about anything I'd want to use it for, so I guess that those are the ones I should be hunting for. VA3s seem pretty easy to spot in comparison to VA2s, but I'm guessing that niether is going to be easy to track down. Time to hunt!

TH0R
11-10-2008, 09:34 AM
i've got a model 1 genesis on a model 2 sega cd that has the vertical lines and sound issues... i swear they can be fixed like those problems on the duo by replacing caps or something... i have another gen1 with sega cd 1 that work just fine...used to have a version 2 that worked fine also...anyone have any ideas on what could be replaced sound/ video wise?

Timstuff
11-10-2008, 01:08 PM
The problem isn't "caps." It's that some Genesis models have really crappy video processors. In theory, it might be possible to take a better video processor from another product and swap it in, but it's a long shot to say the least, because there are likely a lot of compatibility problems that can't be overcome with just a soldering iron. The real solution is just to look for a better model. (from everything I've seen, VA3 is your friend).

Ace
11-10-2008, 05:10 PM
I found this thread at Digital Press that states that Majesco Genesis 2s don't work with peripherals:



http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?p=56008#post56008

So, that's a bit confusing to me. I'm pretty sure from the sounds of it that both Majesco's Genesis 2s and Genesis 3s use the same PCB, which lacks some hardware that's necessary to make addons work, including the connector for the CD drive. So with that in mind, a Majesco Sega Genesis is not the route to go if you want to have your cake and eat it too (aka having good picture quality and addon compatibility in a Model 2 casing).

So I guess my real question now is, are all 3/4 PCB Model 2 Genesis systems made by Majesco, and if not, are the ones made by Sega still compatible with the add ons? I'm pretty sure that the Majesco ones that aren't peripheral compatible are the VA4s, since they are the most recent. The VA3 is also has a 3/4 PCB, and is probably distinguishable by the model number on the bottom of the board. So does anyone know if the VA3 is add-on compatible or not? And how rare is it compared to the VA2?

Okay, whoa, now that's TOTAL BS. Majesco Genesis 2s are just VA4 Genesis 2s sold by Majesco(which work with all addons, I have a VA4, and it works with everything). You'd be perfectly fine with a VA3, however, as that one was only sold by Sega. The VA2 is... I don't really know how to describe it. If you want to use a Power Base Converter on that unit, you'll puke. The PSG sound channels STRAIN LIKE CRAZY! And on Genesis games that use PSG, the FM output is too loud, so you have to snip 2 pins on the Yamaha YM2612(it uses a discrete one like the Genesis 1) and solder a 1.5Kohm resistor along with 33ohm resistors on the Sega CD and 32X audio outputs. But this will still cause Master System games(R-Type in particular) to have HORRENDUS audio. You're better off with a VA3 if you don't want any sound/other issues.


It's looking like if I want the best model 2, the VA2 is a solid piece of hardware, but the VA3 potentially might be as well. Actually finding one of either will be a serious pain in the butt though, because as Ace said, VA2s look pretty much the same on the outside as VA1s and VA1.8s. Does anyone know if there's a different model number listed on VA2s base, or any other markings that make it possible to identify without actually testing it?

If you play Master System games on your Genesis, like I said, DO NOT get a VA2 Genesis 2(there's an easy way to spot one: push down the cartridge flaps and look for a wire coming off the cartridge slot. That's how you know the board's a VA2). Your safest bet is a VA3, but you're okay with a VA4. All Majesco did with the Genesis 2 is to reuse the VA4 motherboard and sell it. There were NO, I repeat, NO CHANGES whatsoever made to the motherboard. If there were, why would the Sega CD expansion slot even be there?

Timstuff
11-12-2008, 11:56 PM
Cool, thanks for the info. It sounds like I really can't go wrong with a 3/4 motherboard Genesis, so that's what I'm going after. I actually found an auction for one that comes with packaging that I recall seeing around the mid 1990's, so I asked the seller and confirmed that it has a 3/4 mobo. I'm really pumped, so all I have to do now is WIN! ^_^

The fact that it comes with a box could potentially give me more rival suitors than I can fend off, but hey, I'll take those odds over blindly purchasing in hopes of getting a 3/4 model.

Ace
11-13-2008, 02:25 PM
Good job. Post pictures of the motherboard when you get that unit.

Timstuff
11-13-2008, 09:33 PM
Well, I'll have to win first, but after having lost a few auctions this week I think I'm about due for a victory. :D

Timstuff
11-15-2008, 08:13 PM
Yay, I won! Only $15 plus shipping. It came with two games (Sonic 3D Blast and Columns) plus the original box. That's a pretty good deal, if I do say so myself. ^_^

Once I've gotten it in the mail, I'll make sure to take a look at the motherboard and upload pics.

Timstuff
12-04-2008, 06:59 AM
I got my VA3 in the mail this week, and just to be sure I opened it up, and indeed I saw that little Sony chip smiling at me. I definitely noticed that the picture is a lot clearer than my VA1. After playing for an hour or two, I switched back to my VA1, and the VA1's PQ looked absolutely awful. The VA3 doesn't look perfect (after all, I only have composite cables), but it looks good enough (whereas the VA1 does not). The graphics are as crisp as you can probably ever hope to see on a Genesis without hacking it open and installing some kind of mod, I am happy. If you like the model 2 Genesis's design as much as I do, then the VA3 is the Genesis to own.

Ace
12-04-2008, 06:03 PM
Good thing you were lucky with your VA3. I didn't even THINK those things could have had Samsung's pile of crap. You can now get rid of your VA1.;)

Timstuff
12-04-2008, 10:55 PM
Yeah, I'm trying to think of who I can offload it onto... I was thinking maybe my little cousins, but I'm not sure if my aunt wants them getting into video games. :(

MN12BIRD
12-05-2008, 12:57 AM
I know it depends on the version of Model 2 you have and it is true the 32X has a better composite video signal so using the 32X even to play Genesis games gives you a cleaner picture but I just noticed something....

My Model 3 (yeah the one that everyone hates ever so much) gives me the best picture. I have several Model 1 and several Model 2 Genesis systems. Most have some degree of vertical lines in the video but I was just playing SFII on my Model 3 (first time I've REALLY actually sat down and played on the Model 3) and its the best picture of them all!