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Thread: Valis III

  1. #31
    Now with 33% more @$$! Master of Shinobi Assman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    Some of the most celebrated games of all time have enemies crossing through walls and phtsical barriers. The pursuit of realism is one of the worst things to happen to video games.
    I definitely couldn't care less about realism, but when low-level enemies can do things far beyond your capabilities to the point of it seeming incredibly unfair, that blows. I'm pretty sure that my personal celebrated games list doesn't have a lot of games with randomized bastard enemies ignoring barriers and walking through hazards without taking damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    Again, I agree that this stuff can suck, but so many classics, esoecially on Nintendo platforms, get a pass for it.
    I'm probably one of the most ferociously anti-Nintendo people on the planet, so alluding to that specifically does fuck-all for me, but no there's no argument that many games have been given a collective free pass for similar behavior. I'm sure I've given passes to loads of games that others here have scrutinized to death for similar reasons, so point taken.

    Still, I'm looking at this as a Genesis title specifically, and maybe my memory betrays me a bit, but it seems like a ton of great Genesis games from that era and earlier exhibit fewer problems than this.

    I can see why people would be drawn to this title initially, but it has way too many fatal flaws for me. Mechanics like these are a big part of what turns me off to pre-16 bit titles.

  2. #32
    8 & 16 bit guy Outrunner Bloodreign's Avatar
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    One of my favorite series, and games on the Genesis, Valis III is a beauty to behold. Though it is strange a slide works better than a jump, it never truly bothered me. Has some nice music, and really has some nice crunchy bass in some of the stage themes. It even let you play as 3 different girls. The fourth game kind of pissed me off by making Yuko a goddess, but Rena held her own. But this being Yuko's last official mission here, it went out with a bang.

    And don't ask me about X, it doesn't exist in my world, period.

  3. #33
    Road Rasher
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodreign View Post
    One of my favorite series, and games on the Genesis, Valis III is a beauty to behold. Though it is strange a slide works better than a jump, it never truly bothered me. Has some nice music, and really has some nice crunchy bass in some of the stage themes. It even let you play as 3 different girls. The fourth game kind of pissed me off by making Yuko a goddess, but Rena held her own. But this being Yuko's last official mission here, it went out with a bang.

    And don't ask me about X, it doesn't exist in my world, period.
    it is one of those genesis games to remember

  4. #34
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    I just played through Valis III myself, and:

    Quote Originally Posted by Assman View Post
    I just played through this game last night, and I can't believe it gets as much appreciation as it does. [...]

    The ice level is an absolute fucking cesspool with nothing even remotely redeeming about it. Even after overcoming the slip-sliding and the "hold up to not jump shitty" technique, the game throws enemies at you while you're suspended in mid-air above a bottomless pit that you often have no way of defending against. That's beyond being "difficult"; it's bad programming. You can't even rely on memorizing enemy placement because sometimes an enemy will appear and sometimes it won't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Assman View Post
    You even get infinite continues by default, which to me basically says that the developers knew what a mess this was when they released it.
    100% agreed with Assman across the board. I love "imperfect games" and Renovation titles in general -- I love El Viento and enjoy Earnest Evans -- but this game suuuuuucks. I'd give it a 3/10.

    In addition to the things he mentioned, the camera placement is horrible, putting you near the edge of the screen for no apparent reason. And the respawning enemies in later levels are just a mess -- they always emerge in a place that works against your hitbox, and just completely disrupt any sense of flow or pleasure in the gameplay. Not only are there typos in the script, but part of the text was actually offscreen on the right edge of my TV, even while there was plenty of room to the left.

    The ice level doesn't reward skillful play, it rewards memorization of the way poorly-designed game mechanics work within the game's environment. I mastered it, sure, but it still sucks. It's akin to the shitty platforming in a NES game like Sword Master, which (now that I think about it) is also another one with weird-ass jump mechanics and character-switching that's largely meaningless...

    ...but at least that game has a wealth of good and challenging bosses! In Valis III the boss fights are crude and uninteresting, more about button-mashing while taking near-forced hits than anything else. The final boss fight is the most miserable of them all.

    I actually enjoyed the first game more, oddly enough (not that I enjoyed it much). Sure, it's ponderous and janky and too easy (I 1CC'd it on my first try), and the cutscene text crawls are even more excruciatingly slow. But at least Valis 1 was a hell of a lot fairer and better-designed, and I even liked the music better.

  5. #35
    VA1LT CHIP ENABLED Master of Shinobi OverDrone's Avatar
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    Nice breakdown goldenband.

    I tried this one out a few years ago and it didn't seem too great on first impressions. Certainly El Viento is leagues better.

  6. #36
    Now with 33% more @$$! Master of Shinobi Assman's Avatar
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    Wow, looks like I was pissed after playing that game. It's kind of funny to reflect on now.

    I've actually warmed up a bit to this game since then, but I still can't argue with goldenband's assessment; it's pretty on the nose. I'll fire this up every once in a while when I'm in a more masochistic mood and see just to what extent I'm willing to deal with the frustration before putting down the controller and walking away. I do apparently derive some perverse enjoyment from it.

    I agree on Valis I as well (didn't that technically come out after III?). Another less-than-great game, but much more sensible level design and nothing that completely overpowers the charm it has. I feel similarly on the music too; I remember Joe trashing it on GameSack and thinking, "hey, I kinda like some of this stuff."

  7. #37
    Benjamin's Avatar
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    Genesis

    Never understood why the first game was released after the third in the West. Same with Syd as I recall. I guess they felt that Valis III was the strongest title to localize, and it's success (?) greenlighted bringing over the other ones, but I'm just speculating there.

    Valis III is all right. I think the ice stage for this game is like the cylinder in Sonic 3 -- I never realized it was an issue since I never had a problem with it, probably because I had already got used to Cham sliding over gaps since it's just faster. All Valis games just feel very simplistic and slow, basically filler to tie in the cinematic bits. The franchise would be a great candidate for a remake if that last game didn't kill whatever positive reputation the game had left.

  8. #38
    Raging in the Streets goldenband's Avatar
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    I can see why someone might play a few stages and think Valis III has an adequate amount of charm. To me it tanked not in the ice stage, but in the preceding one, where the game begins to spawn these giant mosquito-like creatures that fly in from offscreen at high speed and are more or less impossible to avoid if they target you.

    Also not ideal that combat is pointless, with no benefit to fighting enemies -- no score, no item drops -- so they're just an annoyance. That makes for a bad combination with infinitely-respawning grunts; you should at least have the potential of getting something for your troubles, even just a score-based extra life.

    I think the biggest problem spot in the ice stage is one place where you have to slide under spikes, then slide again to cross a gap while still under the spikes. I didn't see any way to make adjustments there through skill, only through trial and error: start the first slide from the wrong place, and the second one won't make it. (I also think the whole "slide across gaps" mechanics is just underbaked.)

    There's also a bad spot in the ice stage where there's a bouncing ball of lightning (or whatever) that will usually knock you back into a pit if you don't time your jump perfectly. Thanks to the slow lateral movement, the timing of the jump isn't intuitive at all -- you have to sort it through trial and error. It just doesn't feel good, or rewarding, to figure it out, and it's another example of how the infinite continues are a hedge against the failure to design stages (and character movement) that play well.

    Of course a lot of games -- Mitsume ga Tooru, Moon Crystal, etc. -- have similar problems and get raved about because of nice presentation. But Valis III seems to have more than most!

  9. #39
    Road Rasher
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    well both El Viento and Valis III are classics and even although Valis III gets harder after level 5 this is a fun game to play with great music(Nizetti's theme is a video game classic) and this is a 10 out of 10 and one of my favourite games ever, heck you may have even heard of my love of this classic before? And how this game was released only on import here in Britain I will never know as it deserved an official release
    Last edited by knicksfan89; 06-20-2021 at 10:55 PM.

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