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Thread: Wing Commander

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kool kitty89 View Post
    The movie isn't terrible compared to a number of other common/generic action flicks, but it's a poor representation of the title it carries. --It's like the film was trying to cater to a different audience.

    It really makes me wonder what happened... Maybe there are some articles online that go into detail on that. (factors differing between directing/writing of the game cinema and the later film which did/may have led to that)



    Yeah, and I'm still getting into the games (I've played 1/2 a bit on PC and have III/IV for DOS but haven't had a chance to try them out yet -or even see if they work well in DOSBox or if I should opt for rebuilding an older win9x machine instead). I don't have Prophecy yet. (and am not too interested in Privateer) --I was into the X-Wing franchise more when those games were new, among a few others. (FreeSpace/II is another series I'm looking forward too)

    Anyway, that new "wing commander" game really has very little to do with the series from all I've seen and read. Not necessarily a bad game, but a disappointment for fans of the series.
    I can't complain too much as I like older games and have plenty I've yet gotten around to. (as was lucky to fins a complete copy of WC IV for a very low price at Goodwill a year ago -which would be one of the more costly of thse mentioned -WC III and V aren't bad, and neither is freespace, and WC I/II can be a pain, but in that case it's not too tough to... download -or in my case I also found a patch for Kilrathi Saga which included the complete files for WCI/II -unfortunately they don't seem to like newer video drivers -They're the DirectX versions). The DOS games are a bit of a pain as they're timing sensitive, so you're limited for framerate as going past ~3500k cycles in dosbox makes it play too fast. (apparently a problem with the original game, with anything much faster than a 33 MHz 386 -apparently little difference with a 486- makes it run too fast as well)

    More off topic.
    Should I pick it up at Frys for $5?

    Quote Originally Posted by kool kitty89 View Post
    Unless configuring an MT32 emulator in conjunction with dosbox is too painful and you want the best sound... The kilrathi saga re-release has wav files for soem nicely arranged music and sfx, but is rather uncommon (in fact all the CD releases DOS or otherwise tend to be pricey for WC), it's not hard to *download* though, only a tad tougher to find thant he DOS version. (plus it runs much more smoothely than the DOS version -which is timing sensiteive and runs too fast past ~3333k cycles in dosbox)

    The main problem with that is, inspite of being compatible with Win32 (XP/Vista, probably 7), it has major issues with some directX drivers on modern cards as it runs in 320x200 and many don't support this. (my old radeon 9600 machine worked perfectly, though my LCD monitor wouldn't dislay it as it won't scale for less than 640x480)
    I have the exact same problem with dosbox running unscaled (2x scaling is default) in directX (open GL is perfect) on my Nvidia 7150 laptop. (and pretty much anythign else directX in 320x200 -320x240 is fine)
    Ironically my laptop's monitor displays down to 320x200 fine, but the damn directX drivers go all screwy: with WC and Dosbox it's a bunch of weird strips of graphcis repeated in an odd patter (you can tell they're the game, but it's all screwed up), with Tomb Raider 2 it's horrible flickering. (that runs up to 1440x900 anyway though)
    If Sonic CD didn't run in 320x240, I'll bet it'd have the same problem.

    I'm not sure how proliferous this problem is though, particularly for ATi cards. (a lot of newer drivers seem to be limiting support for legacy modes though, even if the hardware itsself is compatible)


    As for the SNES, it's actually pretty decent, better than the Amiga port from what I've seen. (again it seems to be poorly optimized and not work well on less than fast 68030 machines -so aparently software rendering like the PC -perhaps using the blitter simply for chunky to planar conversion, if that)
    Well shit... it sounds like you've definitely had an experience with it and know your stuff in regard to getting it to run on Dosbox.


    Wow, sounds like a right pain in the ass.

    I remember it being a LOT of fun back in the day, but honestly, I wouldn't go through that much trouble to get it to work... I've got WAY too many games to play as it is.

    It'll live prosperously in my memory banks forever!
    I'm not going to lie though, it'd be fun as hell to take a trip down memory lane and play it again

  2. #17
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    For the pure DOS games using only soundblaster/adlib, it's fine for WC 1/2, but actually finding hard copies of the games on CD for low prices is a bit of a pain... (well *downloading* them is pretty easy -AFIK Origin doesn't support downloadable versions like Doom does, with the series out of print -I think kilrathi saga was the latest release of the original games) Unlike with Doom.

    It's getting the improved win9x ports to play that can be a pain, again I'm not sure about ATi cards (or a number of other newer nvidia cards) or 64-bit oss etc. Ideally kilrathi saga is the best versions available (DVD editions of WCIII/IV/V iirc) all running under win9x. (previously there were win9x releases of WCIV, I've got the DOS build though)

    For dosbox and the later games, I think it comes down to speed: though Dosbox only emulates CPU features up to the 486, so you don't actually get pentium emulation, just a super fast 486 as you crank the cycles up. (probably sufficient for most stuff) I'm not sure if the newest builds have dual core support, but I think they do, I'm almost positive they don't have quad core support though. (I seem to recall a 3 GHz P4 performing similarly to a fast dual core not too long ago though -second hand knowledge) Using it on a laptop is a bit of a pain too as the clocks are variable, thus you start getting glitches if the system decides to throttle things down.
    I'm also not sure if the win9x or kilrathi saga versions of WCIII/IV have any enhancements for in-game rendering, like hardware acceleration and highcolor support (I think everything is 256 color otherwise). I know there was a version with MPEG-2 video intended for a custom hardware decoder packed in with the game (patches are avilable for software decoding too). I think WCIII may have used a rather primitive video codec (either custom or Indeo, probably not cinepak), but I'm not sure about WCIV, it could have been simply a later version of indeo or custom. (I don't know if it might have been MPEG-1 or other H.261 derivative) Most contemporaries were still using Cinepak or Indeo (indeo progressed much more though, 4.0 was a bit improvement), but Origin was known for pushing the evelope, so I wouldn't be shocked if they used a H.261 derived software decoder. (after all, they did release the MPEG-2 version with its own decoder card)

    There were DVD releases of the original CD content as well, without additional enhancements.

    I actually haven't tried installing WC 3 or 4 yet though, so I can't comment 1st hand as of yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kool kitty89 View Post
    For the pure DOS games using only soundblaster/adlib, it's fine for WC 1/2, but actually finding hard copies of the games on CD for low prices is a bit of a pain... (well *downloading* them is pretty easy -AFIK Origin doesn't support downloadable versions like Doom does, with the series out of print -I think kilrathi saga was the latest release of the original games) Unlike with Doom.
    Well, I'd say Origin Systems doesn't support anything anymore, considering that they were closed down in 2004; so the IP of Wing Commander (and I guess the entire Origin library) now belongs to EA, and I don't think that they willingly support free downloads of old games.

    For WC III there exist a couple of patches making the video content more compatible with Win95 and 2000/XP, though if you want to use a joystick it tends to be a bit iffy (there are fanpatches for that as well though if I'm not mistaken).

    As for Wing Commander IV, there were actually TWO DVD-releases; first there was a release with non-interlaced high quality video (well, quite better quality than the CD-version at least). However, since most PC systems back in the day weren't quite powerful enough to properly display these videos without skipping, a second DVD-release was issued only shortly thereafter, which simply contained the same videos the CD-version had - this is the one without additional enhancements.

    I've recently re-installed my DOS-version of WC III with dosbox, and while it plays just fine, the video sequences have nasty crackling sound. Haven't found a fix for that issue yet. AFAIK there's a fix that allows you to sort of "update" the DOS-version to Win 95, though I haven't tried that one yet.

    You might want to check the File Archive over at WC News, there are a lot of fan patches and fixes available.
    The funny thing about an oxymoron is, even if you remove the ox, there'll always be a moron. The Question Remains: Y?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantar View Post
    Well, I'd say Origin Systems doesn't support anything anymore, considering that they were closed down in 2004; so the IP of Wing Commander (and I guess the entire Origin library) now belongs to EA, and I don't think that they willingly support free downloads of old games.
    Right, that skipped my mind in the last post.

    As for Wing Commander IV, there were actually TWO DVD-releases; first there was a release with non-interlaced high quality video (well, quite better quality than the CD-version at least). However, since most PC systems back in the day weren't quite powerful enough to properly display these videos without skipping, a second DVD-release was issued only shortly thereafter, which simply contained the same videos the CD-version had - this is the one without additional enhancements.
    Yeah, I didn't go into that too much, but I thought I did mentioned that a little bit. IIRC the kilrathi saga release is just a DVD version of the win95 CD game.

    Was there any difference in the video in the DOS and Win95 versions?

    I've recently re-installed my DOS-version of WC III with dosbox, and while it plays just fine, the video sequences have nasty crackling sound. Haven't found a fix for that issue yet. AFAIK there's a fix that allows you to sort of "update" the DOS-version to Win 95, though I haven't tried that one yet.
    Yes there are several other games that have win9x executables for DOS programs (quake comes to mind), more than just DOS shell programs too I think. (though they might not help for WinXP, and less likely Vista/7 -64 bit in particular)
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantar View Post
    I've recently re-installed my DOS-version of WC III with dosbox, and while it plays just fine, the video sequences have nasty crackling sound. Haven't found a fix for that issue yet.
    Increase the mixer prebuffer to something like 1000.

  6. #21
    The Best Genesis Master of Shinobi GohanX's Avatar
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    Purely by coincidence I've been playing KS lately, and it is still glorious. I have a flight stick with a bajillion buttons, it almost feels like cheating when the game was designed for two.

    The WC1 Secret Missions (or whatever the expansion was called) was designed by sadists.
    Quote Originally Posted by CMA Death Adder
    Recently I sold the majority of my 32X games for a measly 18 bucks. With it, I bought some tacos. Definitely a more pleasing choice.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silanda View Post
    Increase the mixer prebuffer to something like 1000.
    Hey, that did it. thx!
    The funny thing about an oxymoron is, even if you remove the ox, there'll always be a moron. The Question Remains: Y?

  8. #23
    Hero of Algol kool kitty89's Avatar
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    Do the Kilrathi Saga versions of WCI/III allow for throttle sliders or mappable buttons? (I seem to recall at least one version of WCIII did, and certainly WCIV)
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kool kitty89 View Post
    Do the Kilrathi Saga versions of WCI/III allow for throttle sliders or mappable buttons? (I seem to recall at least one version of WCIII did, and certainly WCIV)
    I'm pretty certain III supports the throttle but I'm not so sure about I.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GohanX View Post
    Purely by coincidence I've been playing KS lately, and it is still glorious. I have a flight stick with a bajillion buttons, it almost feels like cheating when the game was designed for two.

    The WC1 Secret Missions (or whatever the expansion was called) was designed by sadists.
    lol


    Back when games were about challenging the Player

  11. #26
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    Cmon... a scimitar against a bunch of jalthi and a starbase? Well at least I did beat it.
    I'll try SM2 next, I have never beaten that mission where you are supposed to defend the kilrathi ship while flying a Dralthi.

    WC1 and 2 ks do not support throttle or mappable buttons, but that is what joy2key is for. The throttle on my stick has an obvious center point, so I assigned the + key to forward and the - key to backwards. It works very well.
    Quote Originally Posted by CMA Death Adder
    Recently I sold the majority of my 32X games for a measly 18 bucks. With it, I bought some tacos. Definitely a more pleasing choice.

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    I can't see playing this on any system with a digital d-pad (or even joystick) would be anything but annoying. You really need an analog flightstick to play it right, which as far as I know means you're stuck playing it on PC.

    And "Hotshot" Hotshot? Sheesh? At least WC3 came up with the semi-decent "Maverick" Blair (since fans called him Blue Hair in 1 and 2) for the player character.

  13. #28
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    Well, like it or not, they mastered Wing Commander's controls for the Sega CD. I never once felt like they were cumbersome and enjoyed the game thoroughly even back in the day. I have had far more trouble getting used to analog controls on the PS1 and 3DO than I ever did with digital controls on the Sega CD. I also consider proper analog controls superior, but that doesn't mean they are more intuitive by default.
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  14. #29
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    I beat it on the PC with a mouse no issues, and on the Sega Cd with a six button. Memorizing all the commands on the Sega was really the worst part.

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    If you like wing commander, you should check this out -
    http://www.sega-16.com/forum/showthr...e-star-citizen

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