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Thread: Did you fall for the 32X hype?

  1. #31
    Wildside Expert Leathco's Avatar
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    I watched the life and death of it, but didn't get one til after its death. Picked one up at a yearsale for ten bucks, with Doom. Than the thing didn't work cause it was missing a cable!

    Last year got a working 32x along with a Sega CD. The system had a lot of potential, there's some fun games for it. Too bad we never saw a true Sonic and Knuckles sequel for it!

  2. #32
    The Best Genesis Master of Shinobi GohanX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly Willy View Post

    As to Doom 32X's music, it's not the same as the PC, but it sounds good to me. I think people are spoiled by listening to the PC Doom music NOW on a modern sound card with 300 MB MIDI instruments instead of on the old FM chips used on the SB cards.
    IAWTP. The 32x didn't sound too much different from the generic SB16 Pro clones that were 90% of the sound card market at the time. A few years later I would finally get my own PC, and Doom through the SB AWE 32 sound card ROCKED.
    Quote Originally Posted by CMA Death Adder
    Recently I sold the majority of my 32X games for a measly 18 bucks. With it, I bought some tacos. Definitely a more pleasing choice.

  3. #33
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    I also forgot to mention that I would have loved to see what Scavenger would have done with its various 3D engines for 32X. AMOK on Saturn is flat out awesome, but I'd like to have seen it on 32X.

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    Raging in the Streets mrbigreddog's Avatar
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    I really wish I hadn't of gotten a PC in 1994 so I would of enjoyed Doom a little more on 32x... For some reason I thought that Doom was going to be better than the PC on the 32x... So yep! The hype got me really good!!! I sold my 32x to a friend of mine. Wish I hadn't... Luckily I got a CDX and the 32x attachment a couple of years ago.. And I love it! So I got hyped up again... But not let down... Cause when it originally came out, I had only played Doom and Star Wars... Star Wars was AMAZING!! And still is... But for some reason didn't seem worth it at the time... And cause it was so new, you couldn't rent the 32x games at the local video store, yet... So that kinda sucked too.

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    ESWAT Veteran Da_Shocker's Avatar
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  6. #36
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    You must have gotten a pretty expensive PC in 1994 for Doom to run better on it than it does on the 32X. Aside from the window size, Doom on 32X ran at a higher framerate than it did on any computer I had access to. Heh, I still remember trying everything to get Doom 2 to run on my Macintosh, I couldn't get it to run faster than one frame every *three* seconds.

    On another side note, it should be noted that SoA wasn't lying when they said that the 32X enhanced original Genesis games also. I'm not certain, maybe somebody here can help, but it appears to me that the passthrough cable takes RGB from the Genesis into the 32X. This eliminates color banding that is very visible in Genesis 1 models. I've also noticed that the colors are improved in some games, most notably the Shinobi, Street Fighter and Sonic games. That was one of the immediate things that caused me to appreciate the 32X when I bought it at launch.

  7. #37
    Raging in the Streets mrbigreddog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    You must have gotten a pretty expensive PC in 1994 for Doom to run better on it than it does on the 32X. Aside from the window size, Doom on 32X ran at a higher framerate than it did on any computer I had access to. Heh, I still remember trying everything to get Doom 2 to run on my Macintosh, I couldn't get it to run faster than one frame every *three* seconds.
    I had a Pentium 60MHZ, and it ran great... Now my friend had a 486 and it ran like shit on his PC... I even got Quake to run on that computer at a decent frame rate! After a little software hacking anyways....

  8. #38
    ESWAT Veteran Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    You must have gotten a pretty expensive PC in 1994 for Doom to run better on it than it does on the 32X. Aside from the window size, Doom on 32X ran at a higher framerate than it did on any computer I had access to. Heh, I still remember trying everything to get Doom 2 to run on my Macintosh, I couldn't get it to run faster than one frame every *three* seconds.
    I was running Mac Doom II on my Amiga using the emulator I helped write for a living.

    People were upset that you couldn't run Mac Doom on a 68020, so I was one of a couple programmers that posted info on using ResEdit to alter the code fork to allow Doom on the 020. Let me tell you, Mac Doom on an 020 at postage stamp size ran like hell.

    Doom 32X was the best running version I had until I got a 68060 for my Amiga 4000, or when I got the PSX and Doom was released for it. I actually didn't have Doom for the PC until I got a 400 MHz P2 later, so I missed out on all the 386/486 Doom "fun".

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    The Best Genesis Master of Shinobi GohanX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    On another side note, it should be noted that SoA wasn't lying when they said that the 32X enhanced original Genesis games also. I'm not certain, maybe somebody here can help, but it appears to me that the passthrough cable takes RGB from the Genesis into the 32X. This eliminates color banding that is very visible in Genesis 1 models. I've also noticed that the colors are improved in some games, most notably the Shinobi, Street Fighter and Sonic games. That was one of the immediate things that caused me to appreciate the 32X when I bought it at launch.
    This is true in some cases since the 32x has its own video encoder. If that encoder was better than what was in your Genesis, upgrade! If you were running RF though, it could cause terrible interference issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by CMA Death Adder
    Recently I sold the majority of my 32X games for a measly 18 bucks. With it, I bought some tacos. Definitely a more pleasing choice.

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    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly Willy View Post
    People were upset that you couldn't run Mac Doom on a 68020, so I was one of a couple programmers that posted info on using ResEdit to alter the code fork to allow Doom on the 020. Let me tell you, Mac Doom on an 020 at postage stamp size ran like hell.

    Doom 32X was the best running version I had until I got a 68060 for my Amiga 4000, or when I got the PSX and Doom was released for it. I actually didn't have Doom for the PC until I got a 400 MHz P2 later, so I missed out on all the 386/486 Doom "fun".
    The best info I have is that even a high line 486 would only run Doom at 11FPS. The 3DO's CPU being ranked at about that class, and Doom 3DO being generally accepted as the worst port ever, seems to corroborate this.

    Quote Originally Posted by GohanX
    This is true in some cases since the 32x has its own video encoder. If that encoder was better than what was in your Genesis, upgrade! If you were running RF though, it could cause terrible interference issues.
    Ugh, once I bought a television new in 1991, I could not stand RF any longer. I must feel about RF the same way the hardcore dev groups around here feel about Composite.

  11. #41
    ding-doaw Raging in the Streets tomaitheous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    The best info I have is that even a high line 486 would only run Doom at 11FPS. The 3DO's CPU being ranked at about that class, and Doom 3DO being generally accepted as the worst port ever, seems to corroborate this.
    Haha, no. I had a 486DX2-66mhz with a VLB 1MB video card. When Doom came out. It ran smooth as butter. Even ran smooth on second PC we hard - 486DX-33mhz. Also ran 32bit VLB IDE cards. Maybe if people had slow ram (wait states turn on in the BIOS) and slow 16bit ISA VGA cards, then I could see running into some trouble spots. But even then, we built a cheap PC for my brother's friend; AMD 386DX40 with 4megs of ram and VLB video card 1MB ram (late gen 386 mother boards had the 32bit VLB card slots). The game ran pretty decent as long as you had the res one step down from max. Prebuilt PCs like PackerdBells, ASTs, and others were crap, so I can see why someone would think that. But our family always built our own PCs. I built my first PC in '92 with '286 20mhz 1meg ram, 16bit ISA VGA video card, 40meg hard drive, SVGA monitor. It was pretty cheap too.

  12. #42
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomaitheous View Post
    Haha, no. I had a 486DX2-66mhz with a VLB 1MB video card. When Doom came out. It ran smooth as butter. Even ran smooth on second PC we hard - 486DX-33mhz. Also ran 32bit VLB IDE cards. Maybe if people had slow ram (wait states turn on in the BIOS) and slow 16bit ISA VGA cards, then I could see running into some trouble spots. But even then, we built a cheap PC for my brother's friend; AMD 386DX40 with 4megs of ram and VLB video card 1MB ram (late gen 386 mother boards had the 32bit VLB card slots). The game ran pretty decent as long as you had the res one step down from max. Prebuilt PCs like PackerdBells, ASTs, and others were crap, so I can see why someone would think that. But our family always built our own PCs. I built my first PC in '92 with '286 20mhz 1meg ram, 16bit ISA VGA video card, 40meg hard drive, SVGA monitor. It was pretty cheap too.
    My technical development was absolutely crippled by my family's switch from Kaypro to Mac in '87. My first PC was built by a local company in San Antonio, and I've built every PC myself since then. I was coding Ascii animations on that Kaypro in elementary school, and never saw code again until 1997. Bad noogies.

    Price lists I can find for 386 or 486 based PCs in 1993 indicate $1200-1600. I haven't looked at machines from 1994-95 yet, but my first PC, 686 based I think, in '96 only cost a few hundred bucks if I recall. That baby had 4MB of RAM and a 4MB Matrox Mystique video card, it ran Destruction Derby 2 and Mech Warrior with special texture maps at a "silky smooth", by my then standards, framerate. Man, I wish I could get ahold of a working system like that to record videos off of today.

  13. #43
    Hero of Algol kool kitty89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I think some people give the 32X music such a hard time, because Tom Kalinske in an interview made fun of other console versions that didn't feature music, and that the 32X version was the definitive console version .

    There's no getting away form the fact, that a lot of 32X games just sounded terrible.
    Hmm... more 32x music sounds fine to me, often on par or better than the best Genesis stuff.
    Games that used GEMS, like Doom, or other poor sound engines or rush jobs (BC Racers is worse) sure, but the same is true for Genesis stuff. Space Harrier and AfterBurner generally sound like the Arcade for example, all the Sega stuff other than Doom sounds good I think.


    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Shocker View Post
    Cept M$ has billions upon billions to make Natal a moderate success at least.
    That's not a success if they pour money in and don't make it back... just like with the 3DO. A success for 3rd parties profiting off software, but not from MS from a business point of view.



    Quote Originally Posted by Christuserloeser View Post
    Well I am sure that Sega of Japan planned for 'Project Mars' to be the lower end platform, replacing the bare bones Mega Drive model 2.

    and *I know* from a press release that Sega of Europe sent me that they tried to sell 32X as a poor man's 32-bit system and Saturn as a high end machine targeted at hardcore gamers and adults. Kids couldn't afford it anyway. It was the PlayStation 3 of its days.
    Yes, but in Europe you didn't have a half a year gap (supposed to be a full year at least) for the 32x alone...

    Regardless that whole premise is deeply flawed and hurt Sega, Mars would have done the same in its place had the Saturn been handled the same. (same hardware, same marketing, same screw-up with release, same diverted resources to Mars as 32x, etc)
    The Genesis WAS their low-end system, why the hell wouldn't they stick with that just as pretty much every other successful company had done and has done since? (Atari 2600, NES, SNES, PS1, PS2, etc)
    That and they had the Sega CD too, and even by '94 a low-end integrated version in the ~$200 range would have been great:
    The Sega CD+Genesis was $250 USD by that fall and much cheaper than cart media all around, not to mention more capable hardware wise and the MD, but there was limited install base -still but already established somewhat at least.
    If they were goign to go with a low-end system that should have been it, that, or a cut-down, cartridge-based forward compatible saturn perhaps. (especially if it was expandable to full saturn) Dropping back to carts regardless would be an odd choice; had the Saturn been MD+CD compatible that would have facilitated the CD as a low-end platform too, of course. (that would have meant a different design philosophy than the OTL Saturn, of course, like the one Chilly Willy proposed, etc)

    It would have been far better if SoJ had simply gotten western Saturn dev tools out sooner and stayed focus on their existing platforms and the upcoming Saturn alone, especially if that meant more comprehensive dev kits would follow sooner too. (rather than very simple bare bones documentation arriving a bit late in the west and more comprehensive SDKs following considerably later)





    Quote Originally Posted by Silanda View Post
    The problem is that by unceremoniously dumping it as quickly as they did (and that was after some pretty half-assed support to begin with) they burned everyone who bought into the 32x. That was a shockingly poor thing to do when Sega were trying to sell a new console. A lot of 32x owners (and Megadrive/Genesis owners since it got dumped too) felt betrayed by Sega and moved on to the Playstation, and it didn't exactly inspire confidence for on the fence potential Saturn buyers.
    No, they actually supported it exceptionally well: look at all the software it got in its short life (especially that released up to and just after the Saturn was).
    That was part of the problem, when they did drop it for the Saturn alone, the Saturn was far weaker than it could have been with both SoJ and SoA pouring in development resources. Granted some effort might have gone to the Genesis or CD instead with no 32x, but if at least the majority of what went into the 32x was put into the Saturn instead you'd have:
    A US release that even in spring of 1995 wouldn't be "rushed," a very respectable launch lineup of at least 30 games with a stack 1st party releases and a fair chunk of 3rd party titles (assuming SoJ got dev kits out early enough -otherwise it could be closer to 20 games), much more marketing hype leading up to the Saturn rather than 32x, and a full, organized launch rather than that weird pre-release thing: no pissed off developers and no missed retailers. Sony could still have undercut the price if Sega wasn't willing to take a huge hit, but they could at least have cut the price to coincide with Sony's launch, to $350 if not matching Sony's $300. (or offered attractive pack-in deals -but selling such games separately and dropping the hardware cost could be just as advantageous if not more in some respects)
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

  14. #44
    Hero of Algol kool kitty89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly Willy View Post
    The 32X sold every unit put in stores. Any excess left after SOJ canceled it can't be counted the way you are. Xmas '94 was ALL about the 32X to any SEGA fan not in Japan. You got the 32X for $160, with $60 in coupons off the purchase of the launch carts, which included Star Wars, Doom, and Virtua Racing. It was one of the best "console" launches seen in a long time, and sure put Saturn's US launch to shame.
    I know the pre-orders exceeded the initial 200,000 unit run and it had a hell of a start in the US, but by the end the surplus units were dumped at low prices from what I understand. But, of course, they all sold, none were destroyed/disposed of afik. (which had been the case with some Atari Inc overstock during the crash)

    How well the 32x might have done in the absence of the Saturn is another story, of course... It had some potential, but the memory limitations alone were pretty significant (making ports difficult), there was the CD too, but that required owners to have both units and wasted a lot of the hardware (opposed to what would have been possible from a merged/consolidated console in the first place), and even if not for that it was at a huge disadvantage to contemporaries in terms of hardware.
    The one thing it really had over the saturn was low cost, but that was it. (and had they wanted to go that route, the Saturn itself probably could have been hacked-down quite a bit and still been more competitive)

    It probably would have been better than what happened with the 32x+Saturn conflict, but the Saturn alone could still have been better. (though far from ideal competition for sure)


    Quote Originally Posted by Da_Shocker View Post
    Chilly you my dude and all but nothing on the 32X looks as good as the first Panzer Dragoon except for maybe DarXide but it wasn't released here.
    Darkxide is actually pretty limited: framerate is low, as is draw distance and color depth (256 colors), gameplay is OK, but nothing super special (a neat 3D asteroids type game) and sound is so so -samples are pretty weak even for Geensis standards. Shadow Squadron is a much MUCH better game in every respect. Not texture mapping, but the model detail, framerate, control, and gameplay is FAR better.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilly Willy View Post
    True, that was definitely the MUST HAVE launch game for the Saturn. However, by that time, we were also playing things like Metal Head and Shadow Squadron on the 32X. I think that might be part of the reason the Saturn didn't do as well on it's launch - people were expecting far more from it given all the hype and seeing what the 32X had out at the same time. Virtua Fighter in particular really burned the Saturn. It's true that they eventually corrected the problem, but to even have it in the first place lost them much cred.
    Yeah, but imagine if, instead of the 32x, all those games had become part of the Saturn launch lineup and with better graphics and sound at that. (well maybe not Virtua Fighter unless remix could have been accelerated -as the 32x version came later and was less rushed in general than the Saturn release pushed for the JP launch) Not to mention the FMV games looking considerably better still. (and several unrelased games not being canceled)
    Especially if that had meant supporting western developers sooner for the Saturn, hyping it like the 32x, and a nice launch deal like with the 32x coupon. (or various other deals)

    The whole idea of supporting both platforms simultaneously really doesn't make that much sense, especially with Sega's trend of releasing new platforms regularly meaning they already had a bunch to support. (prior to 32x they never pushed 2 new platforms simultaneously though, and especially not incompatible ones -SG-1000 Mk.I, II, III, and SMS were fully natively backwards compatible, no adapter required, MD required an adapter but at least had that, MCD and 32x obviously could play MD games too, but Saturn was their first home console to break that entirely)
    Kalinske stated that the idea, at least from his perspective was an interim system givne that they couldn't get the full nextgen system out fast enough, but that doesn't mesh with what SoJ was pushing with the Saturn with total parallel to the 32x and release just Days after the US launch and before the JP 32x release. Yet SoJ was going full force into software development on the 32x, quite to the exclusion of the Saturn to mid 1995 at least.


    Quote Originally Posted by bobbledick View Post
    correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the 32X add another six sound channels to the existing genesis sound set? After hearing what artists like tim follin could do with the regular sound set, it just seems like there is no excuse to me why the 32X version of doom had to sound so shitty
    No it ads stereo PWM channels, just plain DACs (more or less) for playing digital samples. Many games seem to use 2 or 4 software mixed PWM channels, so less though. It's not a hard limit but there's other factors involved.
    http://sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7203 (the explanations are rather technical though)

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    32X was just utterly pointless when SOJ had a better console in development, all it's Software teams were focused on Saturn development, and was using the CD medium. Why have a 32X, when I could have a Saturn ?

    Where I think SEGA went badly wrong, it not pushing the Mega Drive more, even after the Saturn. With great software deals and bundles, and pushing it on TV, as a great cheap system for kids 1st console, and so on . SOJ did drop the Mega Drive a bit too early in that regard
    Quite the opposte, one of the big problems with the Saturn and 32x conflict was the SoJ put WAY more software development into the 32x until ~mid 1995, as I already sad, thus starving the Saturn library early on. (same for western developers working on 32x games instead of getting Saturn dev kits -though that was limited by SoJ being late with the saturn documentation too -not to mention the more comprehensive SDKs that came much later)



    Quote Originally Posted by GohanX View Post
    This is true in some cases since the 32x has its own video encoder. If that encoder was better than what was in your Genesis, upgrade! If you were running RF though, it could cause terrible interference issues.
    That's true for some cases (though the banding is mostly from aging capacitors), plus it's a better encoder in general compared to the most common ones used in the Genesis model 1 and 2 (MB3514 and CXA1645 are similarly sharp though, 1645 is brighter than the 32x or 3514 too). In some cases, on some TVs, the 32x looks a good bit worse: in particular bad dot crawl or "edge pixelization" but it's TV specific.
    For RGB users, there's no difference at all really unless the 32x affects the stability of the sync signal (could worsen it if it weakens the signal or improve it if it properly buffers it).



    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    The best info I have is that even a high line 486 would only run Doom at 11FPS. The 3DO's CPU being ranked at about that class, and Doom 3DO being generally accepted as the worst port ever, seems to corroborate this.
    3DO Doom isn't software rendered, or at least seems to be using hardware texture mapping and gouraud shading (possibly hardware quad rasterization too), perhaps software raycasting (ie not using the fixed point DSP coprocessor). The CPU is pretty fast, but it's in contention with the GPU,, so trading between rendering performance and CPU resource. It seems like it could have been better, but I'm not sure just how the memory contention limits it. (a 50 MB/s bus shared without any cache)

    Doom on 3DO isn't really that terrible if you note some things: 1. it's running in high detail mode (not 1/2 horizontal res like jaguar, SNES, and 32x), 2. it's using highcolor rendering with gouraud shading AND texture mapped surfaces (like PSX and Saturn, not as smooth as Jaguar shading though, much nicer than PC/SNES 256 color shading or 32x's lack of shading), 3. the framerate and resolution are considerably higher than the SNES (when set similarly at least), like the Jaguar/PSX/Saturn there's full 8-sided sprites and animation and enemy infighting, and similar level set to the Jaguar but ads the Spectre Demon. (so many more levels than the SNES) I think it has a save feature too, plus killer music.
    SNES version is slower, uglier and had the frustrating level select/difficulty, has single sided enemies, slug/spreadless shotgon glitch, missing animation, low resolution, no save feature, sound issues (skipping sfx), but I think the control lag isn't as bad as the 3DO version. (which would be the sole area making it more playable)

    The 3DO version really should have used low-detail mode though (probably double the framerate), or better yer, had standard detail options in the menu. (Saturn version and maybe 32x and jaguar should have had that too)

    Ugh, once I bought a television new in 1991, I could not stand RF any longer. I must feel about RF the same way the hardcore dev groups around here feel about Composite.
    RF one my better model 1s looks almost as good as composite. (very slight ghosting and static with very faint scrolling diagonal lines) It's far more TV dependent than the SNES or NES though, weaker signal. (also more dependent on whether a properly shielded cable/switch box is used)
    The same console looks awful on some other TVs, and truely terrible if you use a cheap composite video cable to run the RF.


    Quote Originally Posted by tomaitheous View Post
    Haha, no. I had a 486DX2-66mhz with a VLB 1MB video card. When Doom came out. It ran smooth as butter. Even ran smooth on second PC we hard - 486DX-33mhz. Also ran 32bit VLB IDE cards. Maybe if people had slow ram (wait states turn on in the BIOS) and slow 16bit ISA VGA cards, then I could see running into some trouble spots. But even then, we built a cheap PC for my brother's friend; AMD 386DX40 with 4megs of ram and VLB video card 1MB ram (late gen 386 mother boards had the 32bit VLB card slots). The game ran pretty decent as long as you had the res one step down from max. Prebuilt PCs like PackerdBells, ASTs, and others were crap, so I can see why someone would think that. But our family always built our own PCs. I built my first PC in '92 with '286 20mhz 1meg ram, 16bit ISA VGA video card, 40meg hard drive, SVGA monitor. It was pretty cheap too.
    I think part of it is too many people trying to play games at max settings... if you pushed doom to low detail mode and a couple screen sizes down (so similar to 32x) I think it's pretty reasonable on a fast 386, as you said (you didn't mention low-detail though), let alone the Cyrex/IBM 386/486DLC accelerators for 386 motherboards, or even the SLC accelerators for poor sods with 386SX boards.

    I think we were running a Cyrex 5x86 in 1995 in the home system my dad put together... I seem to recall it being there in 1994 at least so probably had a 486 in it at some point.
    That thing was almost all used parts as I recall: case for sure, and a somewhat beat up (cracked case) grayscale SVGA monitor. Must have been at least 4 MB given it played 1993 games well.
    Whatever we had back in 1994 played my edutainment games well, including some with streaming video: smooth and no screen tearing as I recall. (could have been 1995 though, but I remember it as '94, with Dinosaur Adventure, had to upgrade to color with the later 3D Dinosaur Adventure, otherwise the 3D glasses were useless )


    Quote Originally Posted by sheath View Post
    Price lists I can find for 386 or 486 based PCs in 1993 indicate $1200-1600. I haven't looked at machines from 1994-95 yet, but my first PC, 686 based I think, in '96 only cost a few hundred bucks if I recall. That baby had 4MB of RAM and a 4MB Matrox Mystique video card, it ran Destruction Derby 2 and Mech Warrior with special texture maps at a "silky smooth", by my then standards, framerate. Man, I wish I could get ahold of a working system like that to record videos off of today.
    I don't think they were that expensive by then, especially with 386s in the low-end range by then, but maybe for complete store-bought mid-range systems of the time.
    A decent DIY PC should have been much cheaper; I'm sure my dad spent nothing near that for our home PC he put together ~93: in that case a lot of stuff from a local used electronics store and shopping around for a few new components. (hell, could have been all-used at first, I should ask- I think the Cyrix CPU was new though)
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

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    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    I've gotten very tired of arm chair executing, but this is a topic I'm still fairly passionate about. I think the Sega CD and 32X were great products and great ideas. This is especially true when you look at what other similar products were on the market and consider the price differences. Critics should also consider the Genesis userbase and consumer demand for incremental upgrades in the early 90s. I also agree that the way both add-ons were marketed and the time of their releases could have been adjusted for much better performance sales wise. Neither add-on was ever going to be as big as the Genesis.

    With that said, this is what I think the optimal situation would have been for the 32X and subsequently the Saturn. Sega could have extended the life of the Genesis 32X CD by two years and released the Saturn one year later in the US. This would have given Sega additional revenue and time to complete the Saturn development kits and the development cycles of stuff like VF and Daytona.

    Imagine the Saturn launching in 1996 alongside the N64, but with a Dreamcast style launch of games that looked and played like Sega Rally, VF2, VF Remix, Daytona CE and the like. No early launch, no quick killing of the 32X and Genesis to, supposedly, turn everybody against Sega. On top of that, there would have been no talk that the Saturn was coming to ruin the 32X's early adoption rate, and thus kill the system from the start.

    I think Kalinske knew what he was talking about. He knew how to carry the momentum and cutting edge reputation SoA had created for itself into the 32-bit generation. Even without Sega's support the Genesis still outsold the PS1 and Saturn in 1995 and most of 1996. Hindsight being what it is, we also know that Sega was running out of cash due to A) overmarketing the Genesis to topple Nintendo's monopoly in the US and B) dramatically declining Arcade markets.

    It is obvious to me that the contradictions between SoJ and SoA came principally from money issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by kool kitty89
    3DO Doom isn't software rendered, or at least seems to be using hardware texture mapping and gouraud shading (possibly hardware quad rasterization too), perhaps software raycasting (ie not using the fixed point DSP coprocessor). The CPU is pretty fast, but it's in contention with the GPU,, so trading between rendering performance and CPU resource. It seems like it could have been better, but I'm not sure just how the memory contention limits it. (a 50 MB/s bus shared without any cache)

    Doom on 3DO isn't really that terrible if you note some things...
    I didn't realize how adequate youtube was getting for obscure game footage. If the only options for Doom 3DO on ebay right now weren't $25 I'd be buying a copy right now. I can't tell from the youtube videos if the framerate actually seizes during gameplay or if that's crappy video quality. If the stops and starts aren't in the actual game, I'd say the 3DO version is easily the best I've seen on console hardware released within two years of the original game.

    Also, I've never known before that Jaguar Doom had no music at all, now that explains why game magazines trashed it. Other than that though the game looks great.
    Last edited by sheath; 07-13-2010 at 01:46 AM.

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