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View Poll Results: Best Contra

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  • III

    7 7.87%
  • Gunstar

    40 44.94%
  • Hard Corps

    42 47.19%
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Thread: Konami Treasure: Contra III/Gunstar Heroes/Hard Corps

  1. #1
    Banned by Administrators 16bitter's Avatar
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    Default Konami Treasure: Contra III/Gunstar Heroes/Hard Corps

    Quote Originally Posted by maxxfarras View Post
    Could we have a poll for contra hard corps vs contra 3 for snes? So my vote should go for contra 3. I suposse that most people could vote for hard corps. But even so could be interesting for me to see if Im the only one who thinks in that way. lol! I hope I will not be punished for this petition lol!
    OK.

    Interesting topic, but let's complicate by way of vague dev history and epochal strife -- whether that be between systems, within the 'Contra' franchise, or with endings as new beginnings.

    Perhaps the greatest 'Contra' game wasn't.

    Side note: when voting, assume that 'Hard Corps' is also 'Contra: The Hard Corps', AKA the easier Japanese release.

  2. #2
    Bite my shiny, metal ***! Hero of Algol retrospiel's Avatar
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    Gunstar. No doubt about that. The other games are great as well, but Gunstar is for run' n guns what Streets of Rage 2 is for beat 'em ups. (okay, maybe Metal Slug is, but it's pretty damn close )
    The Mega Drive was far inferior to the NES in terms of diffusion rate and sales in the Japanese market, though there were ardent Sega users. But in the US and Europe, we knew Sega could challenge Nintendo. We aimed at dominating those markets, hiring experienced staff for our overseas department in Japan, and revitalising Sega of America and the ailing Virgin group in Europe.

    Then we set about developing killer games.

    - Hayao Nakayama, Mega Drive Collected Works (p. 17)

  3. #3
    will hog your hedges... Raging in the Streets djshok's Avatar
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    Hard Corps all the way. Contra III has weird, dull sound, plus it's a little too easy for a Contra game. Gunstar is great too but it loses points for the arse-ugly art style.

  4. #4
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    Gunstar Heroes. Fast and fun gameplay. Best with two characteres. And amazing use of Megadrive hardware

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    Master of Shinobi Thenewguy's Avatar
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    There's no point to this poll at all as far as I can see, and its just going to cause the usual arguments.

    As far as I'm concerned both Gunstar Heroes and Hard Corps are clearly better than Contra III, this is hardly surprising seeing as Contra III is around two years older than the other two games anyway.

  6. #6
    Banned by Administrators 16bitter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thenewguy View Post
    There's no point to this poll at all as far as I can see, and its just going to cause the usual arguments.
    I'm pretty sure the Genesis is not a 360.

    Ironically because we end where we start. And maybe your sentence answers its own embedded question through that selfsame rhetoric as rubric.

    If the point is 'new!', well, it's been awhile since that descriptor could be applied to a Sega console or its games.

    As far as I'm concerned both Gunstar Heroes and Hard Corps are clearly better than Contra III, this is hardly surprising seeing as Contra III is around two years older than the other two games anyway.
    So new is always better? What an odd assumption relative to environment.

  7. #7
    Master of Shinobi Thenewguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16bitter View Post
    I'm pretty sure the Genesis is not a 360.

    Ironically because we end where we start.

    If the point is 'new!', well, it's been awhile since that descriptor could be applied to a Sega console or its games.
    Its not just a case of "newest is better" Contra III is a very early SNES title, as such its short and heavily reliant on Mode 7 gimmicks, whilst Hard Corps and Gunstar Heroes were late games coming out at a time when the Mega Drive hardware was known inside and out and able to be used to its full potential.

    I am a huge Contra fan who is extremely irritated by the constant adoration that Contra III receives whilst Hard Corps is all but forgotten about, this thread is not good for me, will waste an inordinate amount of my time, and has already been done to death before.

    Not only do both Gunstar Heroes and Hard Corps make Contra III look bad, Super Turrican II on SNES also makes Contra III look very bad.

  8. #8
    Banned by Administrators 16bitter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thenewguy View Post
    Its not just a case of "newest is better" Contra III is a very early SNES title, as such its short and heavily reliant on Mode 7 gimmicks,
    In what sense?

    As a fan of 'Contra', you should know that -- assuming we're talking about the overhead levels -- this was a known trope for the series on NES.

    So far as the word 'gimmickry' as an insult, it's at its base -- as meaning -- nothing more, or less, than an idea. New ideas are bad? But doesn't that go against your own underlying standard?

    Execution is another argument, but that wasn't brought forward.

    whilst Hard Corps and Gunstar Heroes were late games coming out at a time when the Mega Drive hardware was known inside and out and able to be used to its full potential.
    Konami showed itself very adept with Nintendo's SNES from the very beginning.

    And, again, your overriding assumption is very odd: that newer is automatically equated with better.

    I am a huge Contra fan who is extremely irritated by the constant adoration that Contra III receives whilst Hard Corps is all but forgotten about, this thread is not good for me, will waste an inordinate amount of my time, and has already been done to death before.
    I'm not your therapist.

    And I suppose we could have a board dedicated to nothing but 'Beggar Prince' but...that may get a bit, you know, old.

    Reductive thought is at the heart of redundancy. Think about that.

    So far as 'Contra III: The Alien Wars', we already have an interesting and unexpected result (from my perspective): an avowed 'Contra' fanatic that seemingly hates one of the series' best games, if not the best.

    Not only do both Gunstar Heroes and Hard Corps make Contra III look bad, Super Turrican II on SNES also makes Contra III look very bad.
    That's the spirit!
    Last edited by 16bitter; 11-11-2010 at 11:47 AM.

  9. #9
    Banned by Administrators 16bitter's Avatar
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    I do think that Thenewguy hits on an interesting question, though: which of these games is not only the best overall playing experience, but is the best showpiece for its hardware?

    Is that a separate point, or a complementary one?

  10. #10
    Master of Shinobi Thenewguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 16bitter View Post
    As a fan of 'Contra', you should know that -- assuming we're talking about the overhead levels -- this was a known trope for the series on NES.
    Contra III has you walking between a barren set of squares with bridges attaching them, Super C on the NES has a proper level design with a selection of different enemy types. Gameplay wise the top down levels of Contra III are inferior to the standard set by the average 8-bit top down shooter (see Guerilla War on NES) the only reason they are like that is because the designers decided to use the mode 7 effect as a "wow" factor for people in 1992, at the expense of proper design and gameplay, those effects now look painfully dated, leaving two decidely boring and uninspired levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by 16bitter View Post
    And, again, your overriding assumption is very odd: that newer is automatically equated with better.
    To me, the idea that people learn from experience in respects to hardware programming knowledge is not odd, but so painfully obvious that it need not be discussed,

    Quote Originally Posted by 16bitter View Post
    I'm not your therapist.
    Yes, and people on this board are not here to waste time with your pretentious nonsence.

  11. #11
    Master of Shinobi GeckoYamori's Avatar
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    Pretty much all early Konami SNES titles suffer from at least one segment with "the gimmick", where they try to utilize mode7 or scaling or something else that was regarded as fancy. Contra 3 was by far the worst and most intrusive, it's no wonder they took it out from the GBA version.

    Never liked the Mode7 stages in Axelay either, the way things "bend" in from the horizon in such a flat manner just feels wrong and quite bluntly inferior to earlier, more primitive psuedo-3D effects. Would've been better off being all sidescrolling.

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    Angry Liberal Arts Major Hero of Algol Iron Lizard's Avatar
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    I don't have the skills I had 15 years ago so I have to go with Gunstar. I also like its humor and weirdness. I have heard the Japanese version Hard Corps is easier so I'll have to try that one of these days. Contra III was okay but it does not compare to the other two games.
    Last edited by Iron Lizard; 11-11-2010 at 12:13 PM.

  13. #13
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    I haven't played Contra III: The Alien Wars, but I pick Gunstar Heroes over Contra: Hard Corps, although the latter is also an awesome game. Gunstar is a bit better balanced with its weapons to me, and has more experimentation to it, which gives it more replayability to me even though Contra HC has 6 endings. Gunstar's more frenetic gameplay with dozens of enemies is also a reason why I think it's more fun to play.
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  14. #14
    Banned by Administrators 16bitter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thenewguy View Post
    Contra III has you walking between a barren set of squares with bridges attaching them, Super C on the NES has a proper level design with a selection of different enemy types. Gameplay wise the top down levels of Contra III are inferior to the standard set by the average 8-bit top down shooter (see Guerilla War on NES) the only reason they are like that is because the designers decided to use the mode 7 effect as a "wow" factor for people in 1992, at the expense of proper design and gameplay,
    I think the 'wow' factor, while obviously no longer present as a tech demo, still works to an extent.

    On a visceral level, there's a sense of flatness and linearity to the overhead stages on 'Super C'. The spatial differences between generations can be not only seen in 'Contra III', in this instance, but felt.

    There's a sense of speed and intensity in these levels that is, in my experience, unique and arguably superior to the same base concepts attempted on NES.

    It has a nice rhythm and pace in, well, its scale and rotation. It literally, and figuratively, puts a new spin on an old concept -- something I'd think you'd applaud.

    To me, the idea that people learn from experience in respects to hardware programming knowledge is not odd, but so painfully obvious that it need not be discussed,
    So again, newer is automatically better. No detail or argumentation need apply -- it just is.

    Which begs the question, directly, of why you stated that you'd vote for 'Super Castlevania IV' over 'Bloodlines'.

    It seems your rhetoric here doesn't match the substance of your statements elsewhere.

    And isn't hardware gimmickry being attacked to the SNES/'Contra III' side by you, even as you then assert the superiority of 'Gunstar Heroes'/HC through this basis?

    As a matter of form as substance, there are always gimmicks. The question is -- in programming or argumentation -- whether they are explored, cogent, coherent and content-rich.

    Yes, and people on this board are not here to waste time with your pretentious nonsence.
    As opposed to the pretense -- or gimmick -- that you've brought to this thread.

    Namely, out with the old, in with the new. Right down to your username.

    Expecting that on a fan site dedicated to a console released in 1989...talk about pretension superseding detail or reality.

    And then there's the added dichotomy of complaining about the same old, same old, while also arguing that you're too emotionally fragile to deal with such boring redundancy; that, in fact, the problem is inverse to your initial stance.

    Old is inferior, even as you're obsessing over a software war 15 years in the past.

    But I'm sure these details are little more than pretense to my side, under your own selfsame pretensions or rhetoric. Projection, osmosis or pure irony? Well, take your pick.
    Last edited by 16bitter; 11-11-2010 at 12:49 PM.

  15. #15
    Banned by Administrators 16bitter's Avatar
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    My only problem with GH=dice game.

    Fuck. That.

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