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Thread: RF best input for HDTVs?

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    Master of Shinobi sketch's Avatar
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    Default RF best input for HDTVs?

    I had been struggling to get a decent output from my genesis to my little 26" Sony HDTV. Finally, I hooked up my Genesis 1 to the tv via RF/coaxial. To my surprise, the picture was much better than composite. I assume the picture for RF is "inferior" to composite, but this seems to work in the Genesis' favor on an HDTV. The slight "blur" added by the RF connection acts as a natural antialiasing or smoothing and the picture looks much less pixelated. I also find the colors to be darker and more natural.

    I didn't want to keep a tube tv around and didn't want to pony up for a modded, s-video Genesis. This solution works pretty well. I found the composite picture to be unacceptable (and considered selling my Genesis), but the RF picture to be quite good and playable. Just thought I'd share my experience if anyone else is struggling with the Genesis on an HDTV.

    As an aside, the composite signal came from my Genesis 3, and the RF from my Genesis 1 (not a High Definition model), so perhaps the change in models has something to do with it as well, but since the video difference seems dramatic, I'm inclined to think the RF is the major factor.

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    Road Rasher genesisguy's Avatar
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    I just got an HDTV for Christmas. I'll have to try the RF hookup. It's not so much the picture that bugs me, but its what I think is game lag. You getting any of that? I notice a longer time interval inbetween the moment I press a controller button and the reaction taking place in the game.

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    Master of Shinobi sketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by genesisguy View Post
    I just got an HDTV for Christmas. I'll have to try the RF hookup. It's not so much the picture that bugs me, but its what I think is game lag. You getting any of that? I notice a longer time interval inbetween the moment I press a controller button and the reaction taking place in the game.
    I haven't noticed any lag personally, but this might really vary from tv to tv (or I may not be sensitive to lag). I know this is an issue with HD gaming in general...

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    If you've got money to burn, you can consider tracking down an XRGB-2+ or an XRGB-3. I've read that the 2+ is preferable to a 3, but I don't quite remember the arguments as to why. To score mine, I had to have a saved search on eBay for almost a year before I could snag one for $200. You then have to use RGB cables to hook up your Genesis (or use SCART and make a SCART-to-RGB converter from a SCART extension cable). The overall effect is that the your Genesis will look awesome and have no lag. The negatives are of course the huge cost and all the hassle.

    To take a step back and if my understanding is correct, the main reason HDTV's suck with old systems is that all their fancy image filters are optimized and programmed to make DVD images look good. The XRGB-2+ just acts like a "dumb" filter and just scales up the image size, keeping all the good blocky-ness intact. The RGB cables are required as the device needs a clean as possible signal to do a good job; composite just doesn't cut it.

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    Hero of Algol kool kitty89's Avatar
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    I'm thinking it's an issue with the TV's filtering/interpolation for RF vs plain composite video... the only think RF would add itself is distortion/noise, but not blur. (the closest thin to blur would be ghosting, otherwise it will just add wavy/banded/scrolling lines and "snow" type static to the picture -highly dependent on the TV and console/modulator used... and Sega RF is extremely inconsistent and finicky in terms of general quality control and perfromance as well as tolerance on TVs -soem TVs will perform as well with a Genesis as an NES or SNES, but others will show crap for the very same Sega system while still looking almost as good for the Nintendo ones -Sega RF also seems far more sensitive to poor RF cables or especially use of lower-end composite or audio cables to run RF -the best option short of a good RF switchbox is to use a full coaxial cable and an adapter to connect that to the RCA RF jack on the genesis)



    Anyway, I say take a good look though your TVs settings/options: especially, make sure it's set to manual (game mode is sometimes OK, but sometimes crap) and then go through all the settings to your preference. Any filters (especially edge enhancement) should be the first to be disabled, sharpness can be adjusted for more or less blur (some sets merge edge enhancement with sharpness), and then you have the color, contrast, hue, and brightness settings to mess with as well.

    There's some additional things that may only be selectable via the service menu too. (I know on later SD sets you can usually adjust some of the comb filter or luma/chroma trap settings)


    If you want blur and don't like the way that emulators look with filtering disabled, I'd avoid S-video and RGB/component adapters as even with sharpness all the way down, things will look "pixelated" due to the low resolution. (though if the "pixelization" you see is actually dot crawl or other composite video artifacts, a cleaner s-video or RGB image may be good too)
    6 days older than SEGA Genesis
    -------------
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

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    ding-doaw Raging in the Streets tomaitheous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kool kitty89 View Post
    If you want blur and don't like the way that emulators look with filtering disabled, I'd avoid S-video and RGB/component adapters as even with sharpness all the way down, things will look "pixelated" due to the low resolution. (though if the "pixelization" you see is actually dot crawl or other composite video artifacts, a cleaner s-video or RGB image may be good too)
    If he had RGB input on the LCD and it worked with the Genesis RGB out (LCD might require separate sync lines, not composite sync), he could just add a low pass filter via some caps - to smooth the RGB a little bit (or good amount, whatever people like).

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    Hero of Algol kool kitty89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomaitheous View Post
    If he had RGB input on the LCD and it worked with the Genesis RGB out (LCD might require separate sync lines, not composite sync), he could just add a low pass filter via some caps - to smooth the RGB a little bit (or good amount, whatever people like).
    Yeah, but some people like super blur... like a poorly focused SDTV with sharpness all the way down and a notch filter. Or somewhat like fusion with bilinear filtering and 2 pass motion blur enabled. (ie "RF mode")

    If modest blur is all that was wanted (ie not enough to totally blur the image to crap and hide almost all dithering -all but super coarse/patterned/vertical dithering), normal sharpness control on the TV should be fine... just turn it close to zero (along with disabling other filters) and you get some nice filtered/AA blurring going on. (that works very well even on out fairly low-end Sanyo "720p" HD set -which also has nice modes for automatic overscan removal and full overscan display and a variety of different SD aspect ratio/zoom options)

    If he thinks composite looks to coarse/pixelated (and it's not composite artifacting making it look that way), filtered RGB or S-video would not be a good idea at all.


    As for RGB (via VGA input), it seems very few HDTVs support 15 kHz hsync via VGA, but a few do... not sure about composite sync, but I think that's more commonly supported. (as it is on many VGA monitors)
    This came up on Atariage a while back.
    Last edited by kool kitty89; 01-04-2011 at 04:57 AM.
    6 days older than SEGA Genesis
    -------------
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    Dude it’s the bios that marries the 16 bit and the 8 bit that makes it 24 bit. If SNK released their double speed bios revision SNK would have had the world’s first 48 bit machine, IDK how you keep ignoring this.
    Quote Originally Posted by evilevoix View Post
    the PCE, that system has no extra silicone for music, how many resources are used to make music and it has less sprites than the MD on screen at once but a larger sprite area?

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