Recommend me a sound card good for MS-DOS

Alright, hopefully this is the last MS-DOS thread I'm going to make. To put it simply, I now have a decently old computer with an ISA slot that seems to just beg for some MS-DOS love (instead of just being a completely outdated computer). But before I decide on a sound card, these prerequisites must be met. If they aren't, this whole computer could be all for not:

1: MS-DOS games can work with a newer CPU when running Windows (I can choose between a Pentium III and a AMD K6-2)
2: Sound will work correctly with a super fast CPU if using a card with a fake FM synthesis chip (or something like that)

Am I way off base with these? I thought I remember reading somebody say those above findings. If somebody can tell me if either of those two are true or not, that'd be great. Because if they are both true, I can go grab a sound card (like say a Sound Blaster AWE 32/64 or something) and have some fun.

Sound Blaster 16 isa. That is the best card to use and any Sound Blaster ISA cards newer than that 32 or 64awe. Dont go with pci card as the dos is more ISA period system and games dont fully suport pci slot soundcards at all. But for dos Sound Blaster 16 ISA is defacto.

A Soundblaster 16 is great and all, but I specifically remember reading from Ace that sound cards that use real Yamaha FM chips will produce audible garbage when using a CPU faster than 200MHz or something like that. I also thought somebody said Windows can regulate how fast the game thinks the CPU runs at, or something along those lines. I would really appreciate some answers for how well Windows works with true MS-DOS game support.

Originally Posted by Guntz

A Soundblaster 16 is great and all, but I specifically remember reading from Ace that sound cards that use real Yamaha FM chips will produce audible garbage when using a CPU faster than 200MHz or something like that. I also thought somebody said Windows can regulate how fast the game thinks the CPU runs at, or something along those lines. I would really appreciate some answers for how well Windows works with true MS-DOS game support.

With respect to Ace, that's not true, at least not from My experiences. My Win98SE computer is currently sporting a SoundBlaster-16 (CT1740) ISA. The system has a Pentium III 800 Mhz CPU, and I have yet to hear garbled/distorted/inaccurate FM synth in any program. From old Serria titles, to Duke Nukem 3D, to Mechwarrior's 2 3 and 4. Regardless weather I'm in Windows, or booted strait to dos environment, it works fine. The only game I've had trouble with is Veil of darkness, and that one's got a known issue with super-fast CPU's.

I say go with a SB-16 ISA.

I know I'm late to the party but I also suggest the SB-16 ISA. You can find one dirt cheap or even free on CL, and the were THE card to go to BITD.

So would this kind of card work?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Rare-SoundBlaster...item33641e10ce

Nobody better snag this ahead of me if this is what I'm gonna need.

Honestly can't say anything about that one as I don't know much about it, and I tend to be a bit leery of anything with the word "Value" stamped on it, makes Me wonder what was removed. For what it's worth, here's the model I'm using:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Vintage-Sound-Bla...item3a62108916

I would personally go for both a SoundBlaster 16 AND a SoundBlaster Pro 2.0. You need to be careful with the SoundBlaster 16 as not all of them are created equally. Here's a basic rundown of what goes on between different SoundBlaster 16s:

-Nearly every single SoundBlaster 16 has a nasty bug with any MIDI daughterboard or external MIDI device where notes will get stuck
-Some SoundBlaster 16s have a noticeable hiss in the audio due to poor audio amps
-Certain SoundBlaster 16s DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT have proper FM Synthesis. There are 4 different ways a SoundBlaster 16 produces FM Synthesis:

1) With a discrete Yamaha YMF262
2) With a low-power variant of the YMF262, the YMF289
3) An ASIC-based YMF262 integrated within the Creative CT1747 chip
4) The CQM YMF262 clone(not authentic to true OPL2 and OPL3)

As a general rule of thumb, if any chip on a SoundBlaster 16 says OPL or Yamaha on it, you'll get true OPL2 and OPL3. Otherwise, you'll get the CQM YMF262 clone, which isn't bad, but leaves a fair bit to be desired. Even ESS' ESFM YMF262 clone found in their AudioDrive sound cards is more faithful to true OPL2 and OPL3 than the CQM YMF262 clone. But I would not recommend an ESS sound card for the simple fact it does not have true OPL2 and OPL3.

Another thing too: the SoundBlaster 16 is NOT 100% backwards-compatible with the SoundBlaster Pro. If a game supports the SoundBlaster Pro, you will hear sound, but only in Mono. This is why I suggest mixing the SoundBlaster 16 with the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0.

Otherwise, you can mix a SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 with any MIDI-capable sound card like the Ensoniq Soundscape(killer sound off of this thing), SoundBlaster AWE32/AWE64(MIDI is sometimes not that great) or Roland SCC-1, just to name a few. You won't get stuck notes like this. Of course, you can also mix an MIDI-capable card with the SoundBlaster 16, but generally, the SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 has cleaner sound. Its digital sound isn't as good as that of the SoundBlaster 16, but is acceptable.

I've also noticed a rather annoying ringing noise on my SoundBlaster Vibra16 model CT2260. It seems to happen all the time when the sound card is first initialized, and sometimes also happens when digital sound stops playing or when the YMF262 outputs sound. Later SoundBlaster 16s like my SoundBlaster 16 WavEffects model CT4170 are much better in that regard, but they induce a "stuck PCM" bug with certain games where a digital sound will play and then you lose all digital sound until you pause and unpause the game(I've only experienced this with the floppy disk edition of Star Wars X-Wing - the bug also affects the SoundBlaster AWE64).

Ideally, it would be best to combine a SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 or SoundBlaster 16 with true OPL2/OPL3 and no hissing/ringing noises with any MIDI-capable sound card. I'm happy with my SoundBlaster Vibra16 CT2260/Ensoniq Soundscape combo despite the ringing noise in the Vibra16 since when sound plays, it's usually very faint.

Now for some samples from various ISA SoundBlasters courtesy of the floppy disk and Collector's CD-ROM editions of Star Wars X-Wing:

-SoundBlaster AWE64 Value model CT4500:

OPL2 from CQM YMF262 clone:


OPL3 from CQM YMF262 clone:


General MIDI with default soundfont:


General MIDI with default soundfont again:


EMU8000/AWE32 MIDI:


-SoundBlaster Pro 2.0 model CT1600:

OPL3 from YMF262:


-SoundBlaster Vibra16 model CT2260:

OPL2 from YMF262:


As for garbage coming from sound cards with discrete YMF262s, I'm wondering if the problem might be because the motherboards I've used ISA sound cards with discrete YMF262 on them actually don't have a proper ISA bus, but rather an LPC bus in which the ISA slots are hooked up to an ISA to PCI bridge so they can use the LPC bus. It depends entirely on the motherboard's chipset.

If you'd like a sound card guaranteed not to output garbage from the YMF262, I'd recommend this one: http://cgi.ebay.ca/HP-AZTECH-AZT2320...item45f624c8fd

I only got this sound card to output garbage when using a 1GHz Pentium III on a motherboard with a VIA chipset(if you have a computer with a VIA chipset, get rid of it. Those chipsets suck for DOS). That same Pentium III underclocked to 750MHz was sufficient to stop the output of garbage from the YMF262. As for the authenticity of this sound card's YMF262, it's spot-on to the original YMF262 and completely unfiltered, so you'll get raw FM Synthesis with all high frequencies intact. It also has the clearest digital sound of any sound card I've ever heard, although at times, it's a bit TOO clear. With the floppy disk edition of Star Wars X-Wing, certain sounds were weird due to this card's clarity. Some games might also stop certain digital sounds too soon on this sound card.

NOTE: I have NEVER been able to get the AZT2320 to work under pure DOS, only under Windows 95.

Originally Posted by Ace

I only got this sound card to output garbage when using a 1GHz Pentium III on a motherboard with a VIA chipset(if you have a computer with a VIA chipset, get rid of it. Those chipsets suck for DOS).

VIA chipsets are just HORRIBLE! I had one in an AMD K6-II. I think I still have the computer, not sure, but for some reason everything seemed to be incompatible with the VIA chip. I keep swapping back and forward between Windows 98 SE and Windows XP because I couldn't decide which PCI cards I wanted to work. Depending on which PCI card configuration I had, I had to choose between not booting or booting.

Damn straight. Until recently, VIA chipsets have caused me nothing but headaches. They were an absolute bitch to get working with ANY ISA sound card in X-Wing without getting complete silence when choosing the SoundBlaster, SoundBlaster Pro, Roland with SoundBlaster or General MIDI with SoundBlaster sound options in the floppy disk edition.

I hate VIA chipsets. Intel chipsets FTW.

Originally Posted by Ace

I hate VIA chipsets. Intel chipsets FTW.

This.

Mobos with intel chips are so rare in here... VIA + AMD = disaster, but VIA + Intel works out nicely for the most part. VIA is the most 9x friendly manufacturer.

I have had no problems on any of my PCs except one VIA+AMD combo, all others are VIA+Intel or Intel+Intel.

My P200MMX that runs my FTP and is connected to TV for DOS games is currently running with a ISA SB AWE64, but I'm thinking on adding a Yamaha YMF718 next to it for superior MIDI and overall better sound.

I did have to adjust ISA 8 and 16bit recovery time options in the BIOS, otherwise FM and MIDI turned into garbage.

Alright, well, this is the card I decided upon.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Vintage-Sound-Bla...item3a62108916

Let's hope it works not too bad. These sorts of cards can be used for regular Windows use too, right? Not just MS-DOS?

Originally Posted by Guntz

Alright, well, this is the card I decided upon.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Vintage-Sound-Bla...item3a62108916

Let's hope it works not too bad. These sorts of cards can be used for regular Windows use too, right? Not just MS-DOS?

Yeah,sound blaster 16 is defacto for up to win98. It is the best card. that one has also et ext port so you can add greater midi support for it later if you need.

I remember having a Sound Blaster 16 in my IBM PS/1 (my first computer) I can't believe I ever threw that computer away. The thing was a beast 80486 @ 50mhz. The case on it looked so modern and sleek.

Saddens me because the computer is kind of rare and I can't seem to find another one to buy.