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Thread: Comparison of 4th generation ("8/16-bit") system hardware

  1. #1201
    Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    I also greatly prefer the sound effects of the MD version for both MK3 and UMK3.
    Indeed, the SNES ones sound like complete crap after listening to the MD ones. So weak and muffled. Almost takes you out of the game.

    Reminds me of the rocket explosion sound in Halo 2 vs the same sound in Halo 1. Halo 1 it sounded really impactful, made you feel the explosion. The Halo 2 explosion was basically a screechy fart sound.

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    Master of Shinobi Pyron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    Not really. While, yes, both are good adaptations the SNES side has a good share of cuts and simplification.

    In the video you just posted you have stuff like: slower and reduced animation for Sub-Zero, fragmented animation for Kano, etc.

    Not in the video and usually overlooked by people who weren't used to play the arcade game: some fatalities have further simplified animation on the SNES. Example: Kung Lao's deadly spin has two body parts explosions in the arcade and MD versions; while the SNES has it reduced to one. It happens in other fatalities too; probably due to the SNES sprites constraints.

    The spin animation itself is slower/reduced on the SNES.

    Some fatalities which originally used blood explosion animation have it replaced by a lame screen flash on the SNES.

    The stages with flying papers, etc. have their animation stopped during fatalities only on the SNES.

    On top of that, there's the input lag of the SNES version.


    I also greatly prefer the sound effects of the MD version for both MK3 and UMK3.
    Lot of details thats i never noticed before, also md version have more cleaner voice samples and in gameplay you hear more diverses samples on rounds
    and looking to video, snes sprites have more detail than md counterpart

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    Wildside Expert paulojr_mam's Avatar
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    ^SNES sprites seem to always have more details, because of more colors.
    But in these comparisons, it seems the smaller resolution hurts SNES a little bit, but the details make up for it. Am I right?

    Other than that, good work guys, so many details I could never notice myself (although the sound I noticed is much better on Gen).
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    Outrunner EPSYLON EAGLE's Avatar
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    Despite less colors, Genny sprite detail it's in very high level.

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    Wildside Expert paulojr_mam's Avatar
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    ^Yes, I agree it has a good level of details.
    You can see here how it uses different colors but has the same details.

    But sometimes I see losses. Look at the lack of lighting in the black part of Jax's pants in Genesis compared to SNES:
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  6. #1206
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    The issue there isn't even the SNES having more palettes, it's having better color depth (SNES uses 15-bit, MD uses 9-bit).

    Backgrounds are another story. SNES definitely has it much easier there for obvious reasons (not being anywhere as constrained in color count).

  7. #1207
    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    9-bit can do more than black, gray and two shades of brown for skin tone. Jax looks like they used a poor auto color conversion and never touched up the sprites.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  8. #1208
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    That's the thing though, I'm not sure if there are any gray shades left between that dark gray and black (also would need to know what RGB ramp is used here, real hardware is not linear but not every emulator follows this).

    Also wait, how many colors did the arcade sprites use?

  9. #1209
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    9-bit can do more than black, gray and two shades of brown for skin tone. Jax looks like they used a poor auto color conversion and never touched up the sprites.
    This seems to be the case with MKII at least.
    Pyron realized that the sprite patterns for the other shades were there, but the colors were repeated in spots; pretty lame.

  10. #1210
    Master of Shinobi
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Also wait, how many colors did the arcade sprites use?
    AFAIK 64 per sprite. Not sure what bit depth the master palette is (I think it's 15-bit).

  11. #1211
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One
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    Don't you think they used some kind of automated conversion tool to convert the Arcade sprites to SNES and Genesis?

    Because if they had to edit them manually, they could have "fined tuned" the sprites (adding more shadow details on Jax for example). But I guess that, even for such an high-profile release, they had a very limited time frame to make the conversion, so they went with the simpler route...

    I honestly think both version of MK3 are good (the SNES had better backgrounds, the Genesis has better sounds), even the arcade version is still the best one (although the default difficult is a bit too high compared to console ports IMHO).

    When you think of it, they really improved the conversion process when you compare the arcade/home version of MK1 to MK3.
    Too bad they went the "Full 3D" route with MK4, it would have been cool to have another sprite based episode.

  12. #1212
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    I recall reading that Mortal Kombat 4 was originally developed using sprites because the hardware wasn't ready until late in development, which resulted in the game feeling "less 3D" than other 3D fighting games of the time (I mean, other than sidestep there really isn't much in the way of 3D in that game). And I honestly prefer it that way because I find 3D fighting games to lean way too much towards being "realistic" (in particular the motion).

    If they had stuck to sprites everybody would have eaten them alive though, it was the "3D or nothing" era of gaming >_> Although the complaints about MK4 are a relatively new thing to me, I only started hearing about that when I decided to look up MK4 on internet... I don't recall anybody where I lived really complaining about MK4 back then. I mean, everybody was too busy thinking about fatalities after all :​v

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    Death Bringer Raging in the Streets Black_Tiger's Avatar
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    I looked at the arcade, SNES and Genesis Jax sprites for MK3. The base problem is that the 60+ color arcade sprite was also automatically digitized and has lots of grey pixels across it. Just like with fmv, the extra resolution and higher framerate makes it look fine. The SNES sprite has huge jumps in grey colors on the cyber bits and could look much better with 9-bit colors. The SNES can include an extra shade of black on the pants, but even when auto dropping the arcade sprite down to 16 or even 32 colors, you end up with few shades of purple. I think that the pure white sections on the cyber bits would look much better with the lightest grey and an extra shade in-between on Genesis (or SNES), where the loss of that extra shade of black against black isn't so bad.

    But that giant glob of grey on Jax's chest in the actual Genesis version is still unacceptable. The SNES version didn't need to mix grey and flesh tones either.

    Both home ports were kinda lazy in color usage, considering the number of frames for each sprite, they should have been polished more.
    Quote Originally Posted by year2kill06
    everyone knows nintendo is far way cooler than sega just face it nintendo has more better games and originals

  14. #1214
    Master of Shinobi Pyron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    But that giant glob of grey on Jax's chest in the actual Genesis version is still unacceptable. The SNES version didn't need to mix grey and flesh tones either.
    They droped character shades to insert colors to special attacks, jax is one case.. you only was 4 shades to skin..
    also alot of black shades are avalible and can be used on the paints but the poor conversion banish it completely

    One solution is use the purple shades of the pant to special attacks.. anyway.. you have to redo all sprites work

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  15. #1215
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    I recall reading that Mortal Kombat 4 was originally developed using sprites because the hardware wasn't ready until late in development, which resulted in the game feeling "less 3D" than other 3D fighting games of the time (I mean, other than sidestep there really isn't much in the way of 3D in that game). And I honestly prefer it that way because I find 3D fighting games to lean way too much towards being "realistic" (in particular the motion).

    If they had stuck to sprites everybody would have eaten them alive though, it was the "3D or nothing" era of gaming >_> Although the complaints about MK4 are a relatively new thing to me, I only started hearing about that when I decided to look up MK4 on internet... I don't recall anybody where I lived really complaining about MK4 back then. I mean, everybody was too busy thinking about fatalities after all :​v
    Cool I wasn't aware of the "sprite version" of MK4, that would be cool to see it someday (I looked a bit online, but found nothing). Yeah, back in the day people were happy that MK4 made the transition to 3D, but I find that the series lost part of its "soul" in the process. I wasn't a big fan of the 3D based MK games until the release of MK9, which I find to be the best episode in the series.

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