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Thread: Complete list of games that used the scaling chip?

  1. #31
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    It's pretty choppy so it is definitely the Scaling Chipô. It also use the Rotation Chipô at the same exact time, just like Sonic CD (and just as choppy, a measly 15 frames per second)! Toy Story was a lot smoother, but a bit smaller. ROM animation would take up massive amounts of space.

    Sonic CD is one of the worst uses of the Scaling Chipô and also the Rotation Chipô. They couldn't even bother with scaling the spites. The Japanese didn't know shit when it came to the Scaling Chipô and the Rotation Chipô. Seriously, they were dumbfucks. Only Core and that one guy from Malibu Interactive (his name escapes me at the moment) could figure it out.

  2. #32
    ESWAT Veteran Da_Shocker's Avatar
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    LOL @Joe!
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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post

    Sonic CD is one of the worst uses of the Scaling Chipô and also the Rotation Chipô. They couldn't even bother with scaling the spites. The Japanese didn't know shit when it came to the Scaling Chipô and the Rotation Chipô. Seriously, they were dumbfucks. Only Core and that one guy from Malibu Interactive (his name escapes me at the moment) could figure it out.
    Sonic CD makes great use of the chip but only in the DA Garden mode . SEGA Japan did make some decent use of the chip with F1 Beyond the Limit and Switch , Game Arts and Compile made great use of the chip in Wing Commander,Laughing Sales Man, Shadowrun . But John O' Brien made the best use of the chip .
    Last edited by Team Andromeda; 08-13-2012 at 03:27 AM.
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  4. #34
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    John O'Brien.... that's his name!

    I thought F1 Beyond the Limit was unplayably choppy. There's no way a framerate for a racing game should ever be permitted to be that low. I remember Warau Salesman doing some scaling but I remember it being dreadfully slow and maybe even glitchy. I'd have to try it again to be sure.

    What's funny is that I think the scaling in the Sega CD version of BC Racers is much better than in the 32X version which, for whatever reason, seems choppier.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    I thought F1 Beyond the Limit was unplayably choppy. There's no way a framerate for a racing game should ever be permitted to be that low
    Its was an early 90's F1 game , even with a mighty pentium Geoff's F1 GP II run at something 22 fps . F1 Beyond the Limit was handling and doing a hell of a lot in the backround and that took its toll on the framerate . It was still nice use of the chip and made complete use of the system , really ahead of its time for a console F1 sim

    I remember Warau Salesman doing some scaling but I remember it being dreadfully slow and maybe even glitchy.
    Its slow in the bonus section where you can mess around with the scaling chip in real time , but in game there's some great use made of it and in full screen too and Shadow run makes use of the chip too in parts
    Wing Commander also made great use of the chip, even though again it was handling a lot in the background and the frame rate would take a hit . Night Striker made good use of the chip, its just a shame the screen res let the whole show down


    What's funny is that I think the scaling in the Sega CD version of BC Racers is much better than in the 32X version which
    I think the Sega CD version could have been better . I just wished that Core went back to XJ200 and made a sequel to that and pushed the system it's limits


    I also do wonder if the weapons on Final Fight CD use the chip - the rotation effect on them is super smooth
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  6. #36
    Hero of Algol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post
    I thought F1 Beyond the Limit was unplayably choppy. There's no way a framerate for a racing game should ever be permitted to be that low.
    I have to agree with TA about this one.
    F1 Beyond the Limit is way more complex than any other racer on the Sega CD... Only BC Racers can be compared in terms of graphics but you're actually running against 25 cars in F1 Beyond, not 7 like in BC racers (IIRC) and several other things are way simpler in BC Racers.

    F1 Beyond the Limit is the most playable F1 sim of its generation. Back in the early '90s no F1 sim would run above 20fps (more likely 15 fps), no matter how you downgraded the level of details, unless you had a top PC/Amiga 1200 with the latest and most expensive hardware upgrades possible.
    Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix II run at 8-10fps in my best friend's Pentium 100MHz. Today it's hard to have this notion since 99.9% of YT videos are made using DosBox and up-to-date CPUs.


    Take a look:
    Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix (1992) (released before the Amiga 1200)
    Running on a A500 (compare how many trackside objects it has with F1 Beyond):


    Amiga Power Tips video, which was supposed to be marketing stuff (so you can see that 15fps in a F1 sim was pure gold in those days):


    Running on a Atari ST:


    Running on a A1200 with using a 68060 (!!!) processor upgrade (which was usually clocked at 50-66MHz) (It still would run slow on a "default" Amiga 1200 which was equipped with a 12MHz 68020):

    In the first two Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix games the AI was very stupid, always following the same racing line and it was very common to have "heavy traffic" (several cars in line running at 50mph or less) like you could see above, unlike F1 Beyond The Limit.
    And both games use the same static picture as cockpit for all cars...



    Overtake (November of 1992): A X68000 F1 game. I doubt that it can be considered a simulator but just look how "smooth" it runs:




    I would like to show something from FM Towns as well but there's no F1 game for that system.



    F-1 GP (1995): It was supposed to be a true F1 sim for your powerful 3DO:




    Human Grand Prix IV: F-1 Dream Battle (1995): A F1 sim for the almighty Super Famicom:




    World Tour Racing (1997): F1 on your Jaguar CD




    Formula One World Championship: Beyond the Limit (US version: 1994, JP Version: 1993)




    It was only with Saturn and PS1 that we got F1 sim games running above 20fps.





    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post
    What's funny is that I think the scaling in the Sega CD version of BC Racers is much better than in the 32X version which, for whatever reason, seems choppier.
    Actually the 3DO version runs slower than the Sega CD one. It probably has something to do with the fact that the others versions had to use a new game engine and the original developers weren't involved in those projects.
    Last edited by Barone; 08-13-2012 at 07:17 AM.

  7. #37
    Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I also do wonder if the weapons on Final Fight CD use the chip - the rotation effect on them is super smooth
    Would be kinda pointless when the animation is poor for everything else weapon related.

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamahl View Post
    Would be kinda pointless when the animation is poor for everything else weapon related.
    I don't see how . Having the chip to handle the rotation effect is a Hardware effect that the system could do .
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  9. #39
    I DON'T LIKE POKEMON Hero of Algol j_factor's Avatar
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    Rotating a sprite or two isn't intensive and doesn't need the chip. Look at Earnest Evans (but don't look at it for too long or you might go blind) -- it uses rotation for everything.


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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j_factor View Post
    Look at Earnest Evans (but don't look at it for too long or you might go blind) -- it uses rotation for everything.
    Yea look at it , the whole rotation effect looked like shit. Final Fight CD weapon rotation effect is super smooth and super fast
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by agostinhobaroners View Post
    Overtake (November of 1992): A X68000 F1 game. I doubt that it can be considered a simulator but just look how "smooth" it runs:
    Ah, nothing like taking a leisurely 15mph Sunday drive in your multi-million dollar F-1 race car.


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    Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I don't see how . Having the chip to handle the rotation effect is a Hardware effect that the system could do .
    The other frames of animation on the weapon, despite being just a simple rotation, are clearly not done with the ASIC.
    The short amount of frames in the animation (since it rotates really fast) would also make the ASIC rather pointless.

  13. #43
    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    Final Fight CD does not use the chip and even if it did, the chip is not fast enough as those items move faster than 15 fps and the chip can only update at 15fps or so due to bandwidth limitations, I believe. It's quite a capable chip, but the fact that it needs to draw EVERYTHING as a Genesis background layer limits it, along with the bandwidth of the Genesis itself. Final Fight CD already has two background layers onscreen. It would be much easier simply to animate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by agostinhobaroners
    F1 Beyond the Limit is the most playable F1 sim of its generation. Back in the early '90s no F1 sim would run above 20fps
    Not true, Super Monaco GP on the Genesis ran at 60 (with the exception of the objects on the side of the road) and was far more playable than Beyond the Limit. It's interesting that the sample video you posted from Beyond the Limit was one of the most sparse tracks. Try playing the Monaco track. The thing speeds up and slows down depending on how much there is on the road. And it looks pretty bad, too! Human Grand Prix IV on the Super Famicom runs more smoothly. Slower, perhaps, but smoother, yes. F-Zero runs faster than them all. Don't care that it's not an F1 game, irrelevant. The Sega CD could never do anything as fast or as smooth as F-Zero which preceded it by at least a year.

    Bottom line: When I want to show of the Scaling Chipô or maybe, just maybe even the Rotation Chipô of the Sega CD, I don't spend much time with Beyond the Limit. Instead I concentrate on John O'Brien stuff and Core stuff. All the rest is trivial at best.

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    Hero of Algol Kamahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Redifer View Post
    Final Fight CD does not use the chip and even if it did, the chip is not fast enough as those items move faster than 15 fps and the chip can only update at 15fps or so due to bandwidth limitations, I believe. It's quite a capable chip, but the fact that it needs to draw EVERYTHING as a Genesis background layer limits it, along with the bandwidth of the Genesis itself. Final Fight CD already has two background layers onscreen. It would be much easier simply to animate it.
    Not quite, the update limit is the same as what you'd get updating anything normally on the genesis. If it was only drawing a sprite it could probably do it at 60 fps (it takes 4 frames to draw a screen full of tiles, that's why most games are 15 fps). There's also no restriction in that it can only draw backgrounds, SoulStar for example is actually scaling sprites, you can see it in the water level that there's sprite flicker when there's too many onscreen, it also reaches 20 fps.

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    Shining Hero Joe Redifer's Avatar
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    I need a Game Genie code for Soul Star.

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