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Thread: Paprium: Official Thread

  1. #9856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zebbe View Post
    Does anyone remember when the first release date was?
    Fall 2017? Or it was the second date?

    Edit: March 25, 2014....
    Last edited by jllorens; 09-02-2019 at 06:13 PM.

  2. #9857
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    Makes Pier Solar look like it released on time by comparison.


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  3. #9858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zebbe View Post
    Does anyone remember when the first release date was?
    Yes.

    Date format here is DD/MM/YYYY.
    Code:
    WM's MGF <system@magicalgamefactory.com>
    08/07/2013 18:35
    
    Dear Barone,
    
    You're getting this email because you're investor in either or both ProjectN or ProjectY. Thank you again for your support!
    We wanted to give you a status update. It's been a while no new votes / polls nor updates outside our boards! It could be better!
    
    As you may know, those projects are aimed for completion (go gold) for August 2013.
    However it seems very likely a few months of delay will occur. For those interested, main reason is explained bellow:
    
    We are unable to find pixel artists both fitting aesthetics requirements and skills to deliver high-grade and highly-optimized graphics compatible with Mega Drive/Genesis & SNES/Super Famicom specifications.
    That is due to the fact nowadays most of the pixel art you may see around may no longer be within 1990's specs.
    The difference between printing book with lead characters VS. making a laser copy.
    
    It's been several months we are continuously recruiting and proofing artists with variable success.
    Since the situation is still not 100% solved, especially for ProjectN, we have today lunched a public employment campaign which will let us find new talents.
    
    http://www.magicalgamefactory.com/en/blogs/wm-blog_1/?rdirectlink=16
    
    You may imagine the complexity to design a game without graphics, It's a major challenge for the programmers, level designers and audio composers.
    Big up to them, especially ProjectN programmer who has been pushing large chunks of code with very place-holder graphics and very little support!
    
    Nothing is desperate, other points are promising and we are holding up bigger surprises for soon!
    
    PS: Please note it's also very soon that the investors subscriptions for both projects will be closed, you will still be able to invest more, if wanted.
    
    For any questions or concerns, please contact the support or visit the boards. We will also post this message shortly on our blog!
    
    Sincerely yours and thanks for your understanding,
    
    WATERMELON TEAM

  4. #9859
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    Neither Project Y nor N had a pixel artist at that point, but both would still be completed a few months later. Alright.

  5. #9860
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    Kinda funny he pulled the "pixel artist card" again. It wasn't exactly true in the case of Pier Solar...

    In only about a year, the delays have been longer than the entire development time of Pier Solar. *fingers crossed*
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    Oh by the way, a note on the elevator "screenshot" from time ago. A transparency like that is fully possible on MD, it's actually white but everything has a pink filter on top, and it's not difficult to do some color correction using footage from the party ROM's colors as reference.

    Points that may make it "real":
    • The MD can produce 50% opacity (IIRC) black or white transparencies by enabling shadow/highlight mode, white available to sprites only. Shameless, I tell you to checkout the sound test screen from Mobius Evolution, which is fully transparent,
    • If you have 1 plane map, and want some decorations to overlap sprites and others not, you can only set an "overlapping" bit to 8x8 tiles; the edges of this matte is only limited to 8px boundaries, by hardware design. If you want a finer matte, you'd cheat with more sprites at smaller size. See how within the transparency, the girl's arm overlap the railing or banisters or however said? Those aren't aligned to 8px margins, so the only way it could overlap sprites is by making the banister (or at least that section) a sprite, too. Shameless again, I tested this trick in this ROM


    Points that may make it fake:
    • Using transparencies like that is just too deliberate, it's the kind of effort you'd save for a strategically special ocassion in your game, some plot point, boss, menu (especially if trying to achieve a first impression), and so on. Else you'd have to be really careful about the screen's layering and how color gets used
    • In order to be possible, not only is the screen's composition true hell, but sprite usage too. Ob1 supossedly made a renderer that supports multiplexing, which fails at the smallest of things in the ROM we seen. The only counter-point is that I've seen, somewhere, that Paprium has been mostly tested in a modified version of Gens and... the game could be "complete" and working right on modded Gens, just not on current cart design
    • Tea Time 5 is VERY likely to be an animated mockup because... of these tiny details, mismatching timings, or 1-frame delays kind-of things, that wouldn't make much sense unless the code has been rewritten (why?). If that was indeed a mockup, Fonzie really went a step further and replicate bugs; said video has some glitchy background scrolling, so why would the railing/banisters/etc bug not be a lie either?
    • What the hell is that at the right side?
    Deep into weird, worrying and scary craze.

  7. #9862
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    Reasons it may be fake: the guy who posted it is a serial liar who took a lot of money and didn't deliver.

    Whether or not it's technically possible I'll presume it's fake until I see it running on real hardware with my own eyes.

  8. #9863
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    I'm a developer, and while I haven't sent a single cent to WM so I could be a biased, I "feel" that Fonzie didn't really "want" to scam people. Myself I have been through lots of art blocks, and lots of ups and downs within my own team too. Making mockups is in fact not an unusual practice either, Sonic 2 team released some because they were asked for updates and the engine wasn't ready, and I believe the same happened in Sonic Spinball during an expo (and I'm not talking about the early toxic caves footage, but the video that said "welcome to sonic spinball" at lava powerhouse). Not because Sonic 2 devs were bad at their job, but because they were making a flagship game for SEGA, and I guess there was a lot of pressure not to disappoint anyone; cutting Hidden Palace for sure must have hurt.
    When you're making a game, yes a minimum of honesty is expected, but saying "can't show anything because the engine isn't ready yet" is just unprofessional and should be avoided at any costs. Especially when you have such a big ego and so far are seen as a "great programmer". From one aspect, I can understand the desire not to disappoint, and no "sane" scammer would try to push their lie for so long either. And when you're the only lone person in charge of your enterprise and have to account not only for your game, but also the whole marketing side of it, it's obvious there's not much time for anything. Yes, it's Fonzie's fault for being so dickish towards others, trying to cope with unrealistic goals, and hiding from his members whenever he couldn't get things done (can't imagine what else could have happened other than that). Yes there's perfectionism, and in a developer's life there are flagship projects we'd drop and screw our lives for, but... no project is ever perfect either, and trying so hard on pushing it does result on low productivity. I have fallen into pushing projects so hard it eats my whole life, it's a lesson to learn, and even through the hard way, I hope Fonzie decides to learn from it, with or without release.

    Something else: Some devs including myself... yes we are professional liars, and very manipulative when we need or feel it. But... it's part of the game development duties in a certain way: Today it's just not enough to do a game with appealing music/art or impossible effects in aging hardware, but we do have to apply at least a bit of psychology to attract and catch the public in our works. There's just too much media around to compete with, and can't rely on thinking on hardcore sega fans alone. Why else you think so many people would rather stick to "trash art"? Which is knowingly riddled with subliminal messages and other bullshit? This is the status of artistic world: Rule, be ruled, or die! If I was able and wanted to sell my own game on MD... nobody knows me, therefore I think I must resort to some manipulation tactics to draw some people interested and have some push for my kickstarter campaign. Not without its sacrifices of course, I don't have much time, I don't have much money, I had to freeze college in order to make a free Sonic the Hedgehog fangame, which should help gain public's trust in our team for when we announce our coming homebrew for sale. Just stole this practice from TobyFox and LakeFeperd, who done the same, and had successful campaigns. But don't get me wrong, we love what we do, and we aren't going to do a half-hearted game just to convince others to give us a buck.
    Last edited by CrazyMonkey; 09-04-2019 at 11:57 PM. Reason: bad wording
    Deep into weird, worrying and scary craze.

  9. #9864
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    TL;DR: Fonzie is still a scumbag with no soft skills who ran WM to the ground while scamming thousands of people in the process.

  10. #9865
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyMonkey View Post
    When you're making a game, yes a minimum of honesty is expected, but saying "can't show anything because the engine isn't ready yet" is just unprofessional and should be avoided at any costs.
    Or maybe just don't announce your game too early. What if it turns out you can't get the engine to work at all, and everything you've promised falls apart?

  11. #9866
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    The problem in Paprium's case, is that the game was announced since it was first conceived through the gems system lol. As for Sonic 2, no idea, but considering the success from Sonic 1 and all media that spawned, hype for a sequel is definitely a damn good marketing idea; besides, if Naka failed to deliver (and unlike Sonic 1 he wasn't alone), they had Sonic CD, which was meant to release before Sonic 2 anyway
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  12. #9867
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    For Sonic 2, it definitely made sense. For most indie games, I don't think spending time making throw-away stuff is a good idea. And yes, Watermelon put themselves in this position. They only have themselves to blame.

  13. #9868
    Toejam is a wiener. Master of Shinobi SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    What does Sonic 2 or Sonic Spinball, 2 games made by Sega and an American arm of Sega during the console's lifespan, have anything to do with Paprium? I don't see even the most remote reason to draw parallels between their development cycles, methods, or tech. There is really no excuse for Fonzie's lack of professionalism. This entire ordeal is just a mess.

    Also, this "developers are professional liars" garbage. Speak for yourself. There are plenty of devs, myself included, that are straight shooters. Making up for a lapse in project management, or scrambling to meet deadlines/milestones set by publishers, leads, and producers has very little if anything to do with the devs and artists. The nature of software dev requires consistent, efficient project management, strategic asset/team member use, and realistic time management. Devs don't lie about this stuff. They solve problems that roll down from unrealistic deadlines that are set by market circumstances or poor project management.

    If anything, this entire mess is a lapse in project management, time management, financial planning, and technical acumen. Fonzie is pretty good a lot of this stuff, and arguably great at marketing. But he can't do everything well, and is in fact, downright terrible some of it.

  14. #9869
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    He can't even keep WM's website alive and well. It's been down for more than one month now.

    We've been robbed, that's it.

  15. #9870
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    does this thread have more lines of code than any MD game ever released or promised?
    Lists of MD games: officially licensed (~925) @ cartridge sizes @ Top 5 @ Top 250 (controversial) @ Sonic hacks @ best title screens @ Arcade ports (150) @ best European

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