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Thread: Paprium: Official Thread

  1. #11176
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Stifu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEGA-Jorge View Post
    By the way, if you want to hit Luis where it hurts, don't support Sega projects he's associated to. Seriously. Let the people that make the stuff we want to pay for know that his involvement in future projects will limit their audience. He's part of a pretty large, and ongoing scandal within our small community that he is actively continuing to push. We can just choose to push him out of the community as a whole, by voting with our dollar.

    Just sayin'...
    Although I think Luis' behavior has been silly, I don't want to actually hurt him in any way other than calling him out on his bullshit. He's not the one who ran away with people's money, even though he's been an enabler of sorts (whether it was intentional or not). I don't think he deserves to be canceled, boycotted or cursed for his involvement in Paprium.

  2. #11177
    Master of Shinobi
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEGA-Jorge View Post
    Coming in here and complaining about Paprium is sort of part of the Sega-16 experience. It's what we do.

    By the way, if you want to hit Luis where it hurts, don't support Sega projects he's associated to. Seriously. Let the people that make the stuff we want to pay for know that his involvement in future projects will limit their audience. He's part of a pretty large, and ongoing scandal within our small community that he is actively continuing to push. We can just choose to push him out of the community as a whole, by voting with our dollar.

    Just sayin'...
    I know I won't be buying anything with his name attached to it until he puts up this supposed finished copy of Paprium.

  3. #11178
    Hero of Algol
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    I would just say this... If you need a pixel artist in your project, pay an actual pixel artist.
    Luis is not really a pixel artist. That's one of Fonzie's genius moves as a project manager: let me hire a bunch of faceless, nameless Chinese guys that I can easily mistreat and left unpaid while having this 3D lighting guy who works for big name companies and likes retro games overseeing them.

    That's the reality of the things and one of the main reasons why this whole thing is a major fuck up.
    With the money they had available for this project, there was no need for this kind of improvisation. Go have a look on Tanglewood's and Xeno Crisis' teams. There's a huge gap of professional experience and proper task allocation when compared to this joke called Project Y/Paprium.

    One of the issues with Luis' role in this project is that he seems to think it's a great thing that he got responsible for a lot more than he was actually hired for and experienced at.
    For those who put money into it, that's certainly a bad thing.

    In my view, Fonzie knowingly exploited his ego and willingness to have an important/big role into a retro game project and just kept going (always keep in mind that Luis approached WM to offer his services and not the other way round).
    I really doubt Luis will come out of the woodwork any time soon to "reveal" anything meaningful that Fonzie doesn't want revealed 'cause then Fonzie could/would feel entitled to pretty much erase any of Luis' official links to this project.

    Considering that things like seeing people being mistreated and left unpaid weren't enough to make Luis cut ties with Fonzie, I really don't expect any radical course change here.
    Professionalism, moral and ethics were never key values of this partnership.

  4. #11179
    Toejam is a wiener. Master of Shinobi SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stifu View Post
    Although I think Luis' behavior has been silly, I don't want to actually hurt him in any way other than calling him out on his bullshit. He's not the one who ran away with people's money, even though he's been an enabler of sorts (whether it was intentional or not). I don't think he deserves to be canceled, boycotted or cursed for his involvement in Paprium.
    This isn't a matter of hurting him. It's a matter of expelling bad actor's from the community. I would understand if he was taken advantage of, then got out of the situation and moved on. He didn't. He keeps perpetuating this BS narrative while providing zero evidence for his claims, while associating with a developer that has, for all intents and purposes, taken a great deal of money from the community. It's in the best interests of new projects to disassociate from anything or anyone that still supports WM's nonsense. I don't think they want their new projects tied to a developer that was so closely tied to what amounts to one of the biggest scams in the Genesis/Megadrive homebrew community.

    That being said, I don't expect anything to happen, and really, I don't think it's necessary. You're right, he shouldn't be boycotted or driven out of the community over his past involvement in Paprium. But if he continues to be, you know, involved in Paprium... Which he sort of is... What other recourse does the community have?

  5. #11180
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEGA-Jorge View Post
    What other recourse does the community have?
    A few suggestions that could be applied not only to him:
    - Stop offering interviews, articles and air time to individuals promoting a """game""" with no demo ROM available to the public.
    - Stop giving free blowjobs to any game industry "professional" with no previous experience in MD games development.
    - Don't let any of these individuals grow a big head and/or take the stance that they are doing you a favor for trying to sell you a MD game.
    - Make these individuals be very clear about their previous development-related experiences and which is their actual role in the said project.

    In the specific case of Luis, he has been treated and interviewed as: game designer, pixel artist, character animator, character designer, etc. And he's none of that.

    Instead of: "ZOMGZ How did you achieve these NeO GeO GrApHiCs???"
    Community should have asked:
    "Which are the names of the artists who actually drawn all these sprites with widely different contour styles and shading techniques?"

    Basically, if you don't allow people to treat you as a submissive idiot for whatever reason the chances of a positive outcome for you are much higher.

  6. #11181
    Toejam is a wiener. Master of Shinobi SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barone View Post
    A few suggestions that could be applied not only to him:
    - Stop offering interviews, articles and air time to individuals promoting a """game""" with no demo ROM available to the public.
    - Stop giving free blowjobs to any game industry "professional" with no previous experience in MD games development.
    - Don't let any of these individuals grow a big head and/or take the stance that they are doing you a favor for trying to sell you a MD game.
    - Make these individuals be very clear about their previous development-related experiences and which is their actual role in the said project.

    In the specific case of Luis, he has been treated and interviewed as: game designer, pixel artist, character animator, character designer, etc. And he's none of that.

    Instead of: "ZOMGZ How did you achieve these NeO GeO GrApHiCs???"
    Community should have asked:
    "Which are the names of the artists who actually drawn all these sprites with widely different contour styles and shading techniques?"

    Basically, if you don't allow people to treat you as a submissive idiot for whatever reason the chances of a positive outcome for you are much higher.
    I agree with all of this, but I think that you and I specifically were skeptical about this game, it's scope, and Fonzie and Luis' ability to make a competent beat 'em up, right from the beginning. There's plenty of pages here of you and I going into that with people, while they defended and championed WM's hard work and drive to make this game. I never doubted their passion, but I've always been skeptical about the perceived ability of this team to design and develop a good beat 'em up. On top of that, you and the other more technically savvy hardware enthusiasts were calling out inconsistencies from the very beginning. I think that, unfortunately, the game and the initial promise was just so appealing to many people here, that they took a chance. I kinda understand and can see their reasoning. Aside from the timing and lack of transparency, WM was successful in the previous attempt, and that at least built a reasonable amount of confidence in investors. To be frank, how much more hardware and software knowledge could we have required from Fonzie and the members of WM at the time? They actually had delivered a full new Genesis game. So, to many people, a good deal of the prerequisites were met.

    I was always skeptical, along with anyone who knew anything about combat, that it was more than hardware knowledge and passion that was needed. There's legitimate design skills and experience needed to make these types of games that simply can't be ignored.

    In the future, we totally have to make more of an effort to not only expect more transparency from indi devs, but push them for it. Luckily, it seems like recent games are getting to the crowd funding phase with quite a bit more to show, and that's a major sign of progress.

  7. #11182
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    At the time of the Project Y's and other bs announcements, we didn't have the plethora of better options we have today though.
    The alternative was SFT which had released a couple of old Taiwanese RPGs ridden with bugs, poor packaging and amateur shipment (including some noticeable delays).

    I can understand people supporting WM back then; but nowadays it just makes no sense.

    If you're craving for more MD games, go donate to SGDK and buy games made by decent people such as Sik and Matt Phillips.

  8. #11183
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingWildside Expert MushaAleste's Avatar
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    Whats the latest? is the game coming or not coming? Fonz still hiding from everybody?

  9. #11184
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher nihilblack's Avatar
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    Yes, zero news, usual crap.

  10. #11185
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    Quote Originally Posted by MushaAleste View Post
    Whats the latest?
    "Soon."


    Quote Originally Posted by MushaAleste View Post
    is the game coming or not coming
    The release party was held a bit more than two years ago.
    Haven't received your copy yet? So, no.


    Quote Originally Posted by MushaAleste View Post
    Fonz still hiding from everybody?
    Yes.

  11. #11186
    Raging in the Streets Thunderblaze16's Avatar
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    So is this thread even about the game anymore? How in hell has it kept being alive after all these years? Half Life 3 will be announced AND released before Paprium does.
    ***Visualshock! Speedshock! Soundshock! Now is time to the 68000 heart on fire!***
    http://ban-game-4.gamewise.co/musha-metallic-uniframe-super-hybrid-armor_banner65-61867-full.jpeg

  12. #11187
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingOutrunner Stifu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderblaze16 View Post
    How in hell has it kept being alive after all these years?
    The whole thing is too ridiculous to just die out. Like, there was a release party over 2 years ago. How hilarious is that?
    People have lost money over this, and are not happy about it. Then there's the yearly "soon" bullshit hype, from Luis and others. And then there's the usual trolling that this project fully deserves. All of that keeps the thread alive.

  13. #11188
    Toejam is a wiener. Master of Shinobi SEGA-Jorge's Avatar
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    Yeah, that, and it's pretty much the biggest thread in what seems to be a forum with less and less participation.

    If anything, it's a bummer that this thread is the one that gets the most attention. I think this might be the only forum I post on regularly anymore.

  14. #11189
    Raging in the Streets Sik's Avatar
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    To the point that there were complaints about my suggestion to lock up the thread about how it's the thing that keeps the forum alive… just saying, if this is really the only thing the forum has left going then we may as well let it die altogether. Besides I believe that Melf's focus was always the site proper, not its forum.

    Pretty much all participation is done by people on Twitter constantly tweeting about old games nowadays.

  15. #11190
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One Scrobins09's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sik View Post
    Pretty much all participation is done by people on Twitter constantly tweeting about old games nowadays.
    Video Game Sage has risen in the last year to offer a forum community after the fall of NintendoAge and SegaAge, and it isn’t specific to any console or company.

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