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Thread: PlayStation 4 (Official Thread)

  1. #421
    Raging in the Streets EclecticGroove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knuckle Duster View Post
    To that I say, Consoles ARE restricted PCs, and PCs ARE as idiot proof as the modern console experience. Why are we all comfortable with wasting money on this garbage hardware paradigm?
    The first part of that has more or less always been true. But is especially true at the moment. They are just stripped down PC's with custom cases and some (marginally) tweaked internals.

    However, that second part I can't agree with. When I talk with people who can't get their heads around the fact that there is more than one kind of mouse click... pc's are NOT as idiot proof as a console. You pop a game into a console, it's either going to run, or on clicking it to run (if you have it disabled) it's immediately going to run or tell you what it needs to do in order to run which is going to amount to "click me to make it go, or don't".

    On a PC... do you have auto run enabled? Are you on a supported OS? Are there any pre requisites to be mindful of? (Direct x upgrade, browsers, steam, service packs, whatever). All this stuff may be bone simple and done already to you, me, and thousands of others.

    But for many people? It's not, and they will have NO idea whatsoever about any of that shit. To them a computer is a magical fairy box that gives them e-mail and silly pictures from people. Or it's an expensive tool they buy from the local computer store for them/their kids to do work and browse facebook, etc.

    Those people are not going to see their computer as idiot proof... because they are not, and that's more or less by design.

  2. #422
    Road Rasher Occutell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EclecticGroove View Post
    A PC is a tool, it's there for lots of reasons, one of which is games... but if I want to go and play an old PC game... well, how old? Do I need to build a dedicated system for it? If so, how available are working parts? Does it work on the new windows os? Does it flip out on a 64bit CPU?

    In 20 years time I have no real assurance that I could pop in, say, Morrowwind, in a brand new computer of that age and actually have it play without some crazy amount of effort, if it's even possible at all.
    I'd like to try to answer as I best can if that's fine with you personally.

    It is true that in 20 years it's unlikely that you'll be able to simply pop in a disc on your PC and have it operate normally. If HW+SW accuracy is that important to you, outside of Government auctions it's unlikely you'll find an authentic 90's soundblaster card. In terms of re-assurance however, I have several potential options that range from easy as pie, to some effort required.

    1. GOG.com. While it seems foolish to say that any company will last x years into the future, most of the companies with us, have been here for roughly 15 years or longer. GOG offers a catalog of old games dating back to the first ultima in the 80's. It is playable on Windows 8, although not natively, instead through a preconfigured DOSBox wrapper. $6 and the first 3 games are yours. Easy as pie

    2. Publisher itself. If enough value is seen, a publisher itself may make a move to provide either a system compatible format of the game, or as GOG does, offer an emulative alternative. EA did this with the command and conquer collection, spanning just about 20 years worth of games, and Bethesda itself did this with the Elder scrolls Anthology spanning a similar amount of time. Easy as pie(for you, not the publisher anyway)

    3. Compatibility mode. Even on Windows 8, I have compatibility options going all the way back to windows 95. It's not a guaranteed solution, but it's worth a shot.(and also spans roughly 20 years). Easy as pie

    4. Community. If a publisher fails to address demand for particular games, and the community is prepared, then they'll take the liberty of assuring preservation. Dosbox, MAME ect....Some effort required on this one.

    5. Virtual machines. They'll take just about anything assuming you have a readable file for it. Install the compatible OS on your VM and run the games through it. This however will require, depending on the system, a relatively powerful machine(which should not be an issue in 20 years lol). Some effort required for this one. VM's are relatively easy to use, but they may require additional configuration.

    These are just some of the ways, IMO in which I don't worry about the ever changing nature of the platform. It can preserve its own games alongside those of other systems.

    Thank you for your time.

  3. #423
    Grandmaster's Reckoning ESWAT Veteran Knuckle Duster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EclecticGroove View Post
    The first part of that has more or less always been true. But is especially true at the moment. They are just stripped down PC's with custom cases and some (marginally) tweaked internals.

    However, that second part I can't agree with. When I talk with people who can't get their heads around the fact that there is more than one kind of mouse click... pc's are NOT as idiot proof as a console. You pop a game into a console, it's either going to run, or on clicking it to run (if you have it disabled) it's immediately going to run or tell you what it needs to do in order to run which is going to amount to "click me to make it go, or don't".

    On a PC... do you have auto run enabled? Are you on a supported OS? Are there any pre requisites to be mindful of? (Direct x upgrade, browsers, steam, service packs, whatever). All this stuff may be bone simple and done already to you, me, and thousands of others.

    But for many people? It's not, and they will have NO idea whatsoever about any of that shit. To them a computer is a magical fairy box that gives them e-mail and silly pictures from people. Or it's an expensive tool they buy from the local computer store for them/their kids to do work and browse facebook, etc.

    Those people are not going to see their computer as idiot proof... because they are not, and that's more or less by design.
    Playstation and Xbox are far from idiot proof. The learning curve on how to operate those machines is as difficult as Steam Big Picture or using Origin on a desktop.

    I'm not saying PCs aren't complicated, I'm saying they're becoming as idiot proof as these new complicated consoles are. Everything's overlapping. There's no advantage to consoles being bloated, there's not one of them that operates as easy as a toaster. Steam Machines will make that option even more idiot proof. Auto or boot loading games is an option for those who want it, and it's obvious that that "Strength" is irrelevant to most people these days.

    Game consoles being simple enough for the Homer Simpson minded crowd died off over a decade ago.

  4. #424
    I remain nonsequitur Shining Hero sheath's Avatar
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    I have been surprised by this generation's turn around on the PC front. The games are all designed for consoles, or most of them are, so the PC version usually does not have substantial increases in polygon counts. But that has allowed for my budget PCs to outperform consoles for the last five years plus. Game installs have become the norm for consoles, and Steam made that painless on PC anyway. Aside from, you know, not being able to trade the game later. At the same time I have completely lost interest in console exclusives, they are all sequels to games I did not like in the first place.

    That said, Xbox Live Arcade and Xbox Live really did hit their stride on the 360 and are actually the only reason why I and my ole' college roommate even own a current console. Sony fans might like to erase almost ten + years of bad (but free) Internet gaming services and no PSN, but there it is. On the PC front, I have played online a little bit but don't know anybody who wants to play the games I own so I cannot even remark about how "user friendly" online PC gaming has become. It used to be pretty straight forward, but I have no interest in playing with strangers anymore.
    "... If Sony reduced the price of the Playstation, Sega would have to follow suit in order to stay competitive, but Saturn's high manufacturing cost would then translate into huge losses for the company." p170 Revolutionaries at Sony.

    "We ... put Sega out of the hardware business ..." Peter Dille senior vice president of marketing at Sony Computer Entertainment

  5. #425
    Old School Sega 4 Ever! Master of Shinobi Lan Di's Avatar
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    I just finished playing a PS4 kiosk at Best Buy. I played Knack and FIFA. Knack is definitely a second rate platform game for kids as I previously assumed. FIFA looked looked nice and played very well. I didn't bother playing the other games because a mob of little kids were all up on the kiosk pointing and asking me "can I play now?", lol. There was an Xbox One Kiosk as well, but it was not playable. Just a mock Xbone and and a looping video. The DS4 controller is a vast improvement over the DS3. The DS4 has actual triggers, the controller itself is bigger and very comfortable. The touch pad actually doubles as a button. I just wish the analog stick were spaced like the Xbox. Best Buy actually had PS4 games and accessories for sale.

    I was not expecting to get blown away or anything by the kiosk by any stretch of the imagination. I already knew what games were playable. It was pleasant to see the console up close and in person. The PS4 is rather small and very quiet.

    7 days and counting.

  6. #426
    Raging in the Streets EclecticGroove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Occutell View Post
    I'd like to try to answer as I best can if that's fine with you personally.
    *snip*
    Thank you for your time.
    It's fine with me... but I know all of that already, and am capable of doing it (and have for some) at any time.

    However, the point still stands... you have... all of that...

    vs

    Plug in system and put in game.

    Yes, there are some caveats now with older systems with 240p resolutions (or lower) and some tv's. It's getting less simple the older the systems go, but the system itself, and the games on it (short of failures) will just work without having to re purchase a game, set up specific software environments, or apply patches (custom or official) to games in the hopes that they work well enough to play.

    Especially as more combo systems like the retron series come out that let you play the older games on "real" hardware.

    I'd be surprised if there wasn't a disk based version at some point for PSX, xbox, and maybe even GC games. But those are still "supported" in various fashions by their parent companies.

  7. #427
    Raging in the Streets Thierry Henry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottino View Post
    The WiiU will be sold here at the price of 1.900,00 BRL.

    No hope for them here.
    I saw that.

    You guys are right at the top of the heap.




    Quote Originally Posted by soviet View Post
    We believe! SEGA Empire will live again! As the Jews re-established their Israel, GOD will never forget his people, SEGA will never forget her fans!

  8. #428
    Old School Sega 4 Ever! Master of Shinobi Lan Di's Avatar
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    Last edited by Lan Di; 11-10-2013 at 08:13 PM.

  9. #429
    ding-doaw Raging in the Streets tomaitheous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lan Di View Post
    I just finished playing a PS4 kiosk at Best Buy. I played Knack and FIFA. Knack is definitely a second rate platform game for kids as I previously assumed. FIFA looked looked nice and played very well. I didn't bother playing the other games because a mob of little kids were all up on the kiosk pointing and asking me "can I play now?", lol. There was an Xbox One Kiosk as well, but it was not playable. Just a mock Xbone and and a looping video. The DS4 controller is a vast improvement over the DS3. The DS4 has actual triggers, the controller itself is bigger and very comfortable. The touch pad actually doubles as a button. I just wish the analog stick were spaced like the Xbox. Best Buy actually had PS4 games and accessories for sale.

    I was not expecting to get blown away or anything by the kiosk by any stretch of the imagination. I already knew what games were playable. It was pleasant to see the console up close and in person. The PS4 is rather small and very quiet.

    7 days and counting.
    Just came back from gamestop (paying for some Vita softs; Ys IV woot!). They had the kiosk up and running with Knack. It looks like a last gen game, from what I saw and played. The models of the characters looked ok, but the textures on the background buildings were meh. The background models themselves were only average. Definitely a kids game though and not a show case for the PS4.

  10. #430
    RORRING STAAAAART! Master of Shinobi FuturePrimitive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomaitheous View Post
    Just came back from gamestop (paying for some Vita softs; Ys IV woot!). They had the kiosk up and running with Knack. It looks like a last gen game, from what I saw and played. The models of the characters looked ok, but the textures on the background buildings were meh. The background models themselves were only average. Definitely a kids game though and not a show case for the PS4.
    I would've pre-ordered Memories of Celceta earlier if I had a Vita. I weep.

    Reviews in the pipeline:
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    Ys: The Vanished Omens with FM Sound Patch!

  11. #431
    Old School Sega 4 Ever! Master of Shinobi Lan Di's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuturePrimitive View Post
    I would've pre-ordered Memories of Celceta earlier if I had a Vita. I weep.
    Radio Shack has the 3G version on sale for 160.00.

    Link--->http://www.radioshack.com/family/ind...ent=CT12645985

  12. #432
    RORRING STAAAAART! Master of Shinobi FuturePrimitive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lan Di View Post
    Radio Shack has the 3G version on sale for 160.00.

    Link--->http://www.radioshack.com/family/ind...ent=CT12645985
    Out of stock online. Are you forced to get 3G with the 3G model?

    Reviews in the pipeline:
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    Ys: The Vanished Omens with FM Sound Patch!

  13. #433
    Old School Sega 4 Ever! Master of Shinobi Lan Di's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuturePrimitive View Post
    Out of stock online. Are you forced to get 3G with the 3G model?
    Wow, they sold out damn fast! The 3G model has both WiFi and 3G.

  14. #434
    RORRING STAAAAART! Master of Shinobi FuturePrimitive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lan Di View Post
    Wow, they sold out damn fast! The 3G model has both WiFi and 3G.
    Seems like the WiFi model is on sale too. I'll see if I can pick one up.

    Reviews in the pipeline:
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    Ys: The Vanished Omens with FM Sound Patch!

  15. #435
    Rogue Master of Shinobi Pulstar's Avatar
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    I usually agree and rep Knuckle Duster's arguments but consoles will continue to exist because and I posted this before: brand recognition and convenience. Granted Windows machines have become ubiquitous enough to rise as a global gaming platform, but consoles have the advantage of making it easier to socialise the experience especially for the younger shits.

    What I personally would like to see is competitive pricing from console publishers. At least Sony is embracing indies. Progress is being made, slow as it is.

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