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Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

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    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post














    Yes the game is fab .. Great fun missions,.lovely pick and play gameplay and the music really is awesome .

    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Yes the game is fab .. Great fun missions,.lovely pick and play gameplay and the music really is awesome .

    Not sure if you quoted the right post, but yes I absolutely love the music in it.


    Also everyone remember to vote what you want to see:

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    One more post. So we will play a game. You guys will determine which post I will make as the next backlog post.

    What do you want to see next? The first one that gets 2 votes wins.

    1. Ephemeral Fantasia post
    2. Street Fighter EX3 post
    3. Rayman 2 PS2 vs Dreamcast Initial Comparison
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post














    No, not checkmate the ripped model polygon count is still higher than the actual asset and where is the rest I asked?.This just proves my point though. The f 14 tomcat model is 1,384 Tris when viewed directly from the disc asset. This might seem unimportant but if every model gains a few hundred polygons with the inaccuracies of the emulator. Then games with large amounts of models or models that are very dense will gain alot of polygons making it super inaccurate leading to polygon counts like we had before that were inflated . Did you rip the rest of the models to comparison? One isn't enough for a conclusion which is the reason I listed a bunch for you, it's a matter of seeing if the emulator is slightly inaccurate or super inaccurate. Also I notice you never turn your models , do they have no depth?

    Last edited by Cloofoofoo; 04-21-2020 at 08:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Yes the game is fab .. Great fun missions,.lovely pick and play gameplay and the music really is awesome .

    This game is one of my favorites which is why konami makes me mad why this was their only quality release on the dc

  5. #2975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post














    This is why you shouldnt claim victory with only 1 proof. Though the jet in your picture is still OVER the amount the SOURCE file by 100 triangles. Imagine if every model is over by 100 or more, that means with 10 models its 1,000 polygons off the mark!. Thats highly inaccurate. Here my proof of what I have shown you more than once. Eliot from blue stinger is 2,564 tris from his source file but 3,331 tris when extracted from nulldc... even though his entire backside is missing because the game uses backface culling!! How can it be that it would have more polygons than the source especially when the model was culled?! I showed you this using even debug games and menus that nulldc is completely inadequate for this stuff. Another thing Iam starting to suspect your models have no depth because you never rotate them, that makes them useless to tell if something has been z- culled. I advice to get ahold of debug builds that show polygon count and compare from there.

    Original source model:


    Ripped model from nulldc front:


    Ripped model from nulldc back( has backface culling):

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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    No, not checkmate the ripped model polygon count is still higher than the actual asset and where is the rest I asked?.This just proves my point though. The f 14 tomcat model is 1,384 Tris when viewed directly from the disc asset. This might seem unimportant but if every model gains a few hundred polygons with the inaccuracies of the emulator. Then games with large amounts of models or models that are very dense will gain alot of polygons making it super inaccurate leading to polygon counts like we had before that were inflated . Did you rip the rest of the models to comparison? One isn't enough for a conclusion which is the reason I listed a bunch for you, it's a matter of seeing if the emulator is slightly inaccurate or super inaccurate. Also I notice you never turn your models , do they have no depth?

    Its 100 god damn polygons, it could be nothing more than an extrea pair of rockets on each side. Relax.
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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Cloofoofoo I got all the jet in Airforce Delta unlocked, post any of them you want me to compare.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Its 100 god damn polygons, it could be nothing more than an extrea pair of rockets on each side. Relax.
    Well yeah, imagine this each piece of terrain is a seperate model, then there's 10 on screen. Add a 100 per each. Then add 100 per plane. All that builds up and bloats the figure. That's a pretty big wether you care or not. IAM pretty sure you like the inflated numbers but I'd rather have accurate numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Cloofoofoo I got all the jet in Airforce Delta unlocked, post any of them you want me to compare.
    If rather you test a complex model. The guy kou from death crimson ox or get a save for zusar vasar and look at the elephants. Another easy test would be the mouse from the chocomaker game. Those should be complex enough to test if nulldc. I have a feeling the denser the model the more it adds on.

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    rayman 2

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    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Also I notice you never turn your models , do they have no depth?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Another thing Iam starting to suspect your models have no depth because you never rotate them, that makes them useless to tell if something has been z- culled.
    Its the same for PS2. I'm new to 3DS Max and can't figure out how to switch it to Orthographic mode, so I'm just focusing on raw polycounts. Anyways I like the wireframe appearance of my current settings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    If rather you test a complex model. The guy kou from death crimson ox or get a save for zusar vasar and look at the elephants. Another easy test would be the mouse from the chocomaker game. Those should be complex enough to test if nulldc. I have a feeling the denser the model the more it adds on.
    Ok I will finally look at Zusar Vasar. What page did you post those elephants?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    rayman 2
    1 vote to Rayman 2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    1 vote to Rayman 2
    there is no point counting votes, we are few users here on this topic, as Rayman is more relevant it's interesting to start with it, but street fighter ex3 is also great, those textures of the stone floor in the egypt stage is something I have never seen like in the dreamcast. the textures have volume, they are not smooth and flat. on the dreamcast, if I'm not mistaken, only Sophitia's shield has volume.

    Last edited by SegaAMD; 04-21-2020 at 08:23 PM.

  14. #2984
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    there is no point counting votes, we are few users here on this topic, as Rayman is more relevant it's interesting to start with it, but street fighter ex3 is also great, those textures of the stone floor in the egypt stage is something I have never seen like in the dreamcast. the textures have volume, they are not smooth and flat. on the dreamcast, if I'm not mistaken, only Sophitia's shield has volume.
    Com'mon, I know you want Rayman 2 but we gotta play fair and square.

    Also I will start trying to switch 3DS Max into Orthographic mode. I've been ignoring this long enough.
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  15. #2985
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Its the same for PS2. I'm new to 3DS Max and can't figure out how to switch it to Orthographic mode, so I'm just focusing on raw polycounts. Anyways I like the wireframe appearance of my current settings.



    Ok I will finally look at Zusar Vasar. What page did you post those elephants?
    I never had to tangle with 3ds max, personally use blender.

    The elephants team + harness these are the selection menu model/ replay models as such its the highest lod)

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