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Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #3016
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets Leynos's Avatar
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    I don't care much for Gamecube as a console but I like the design of it a lot. Very unique and fun looking. Also a really efficient design. Xbox however despite my love for it, looks like a giant squashed lego or a ship the Borg from Star Trek would create. The experience was great tho. Something MS lost towards the end of the 360 eras and I don't see it coming back. Then again consoles have lost all personality.

    Life!? ... What console is that on?



    [PSN] Segata-S //[Switch] FC-SW 3892 5228 2895 //[XBL]Dogi99


  2. #3017
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    I only got 1 or 1.5 months left of working on these projects, definitely not enough time for getting into Gamecube.

    Also I have much more interest in PS2 and Dreamcast than Gamecube and OG Xbox, both those consoles are hideous and have no charisma.

    Its either both Ready 2 Rumbles have super-sampling or only the sequel.
    sigh, I think I ll just add segaamd to my block/ignore list right now. Its like talking to a wall. Only ignores facts and its just not worth more time. Like the whole metal gear solid 2 polygon count would run on the dc but not the effects(his words). So I go and play the pc with all effects removed and shows that it doesnt break the games original mood/intent and now he just ignores that, not a peep. So hes focused but ready 2 rumble part 2 doesnt have fsaa! bullshit.

    So I did some digging and captured the framebuffer for demul and came up with very interesting results. I did a capture a capture for each ready 2 rumble game on demul but found some interesting behavior. The emu author says ready 2 rumble uses 1280x480 to makes 2x fsaa but doesnt specify which. Well its seems I cant capture the 1280 x480 render only the shrunken 640x480 framebuffer ... for BOTH games. Most likely both games use fsaa since they exhibit this same behavior .

    BUT I did manage to capture the framebuffer of wacky races at 1280x480 fsaa ! This is actually better than ready 2 rumble since the demul author mentioned this game spikes to 60k to 70k tris/verts per frame @ 30fps(nulldc bloated to 70k-80k tris per frame for me) , Thats 1.5x to 2x detail of virtua fighter 4 on the ps2 just for reference per frame. Not bad for a game pushing so many triangles.

    Then I got curious and went poking skies of arcadia and decided to check on the bloom effect, to make sure its real bloom. Manage to capture bloom off and on. Very big difference and for sure its the real thing.

    Ready 2 rumble part 1 framebuffer:


    Ready 2 rumble part 2 framebuffer:


    Wacky races @ 1280 x 480 internal framebuffer used for fsaa before its shrunken down:


    Skies of arcadia bloom off :


    skies of arcadia bloom on:

  3. #3018
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
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    No idea why I cant capture ready 2 rumble boxing using fsaa but I captured omikron the nomad soul framebuffer using fsaa x2. The game is very atmospheric.

    Btw Yharnamresident I would rather vote for ephemeral fantasia for you to write about. Should be fun.

    Omikron the nomad soul 1280x480 fsaa:



  4. #3019
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
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    GCN is a great console with an architecture that combines power and limitation in the same system.

  5. #3020
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leynos View Post
    I don't care much for Gamecube as a console but I like the design of it a lot. Very unique and fun looking. Also a really efficient design. Xbox however despite my love for it, looks like a giant squashed lego or a ship the Borg from Star Trek would create. The experience was great tho. Something MS lost towards the end of the 360 eras and I don't see it coming back. Then again consoles have lost all personality.
    Or how the console, OS, and game cases are covered in Mountain Dew colour.


    Also I should finally have content to post again tonight.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  6. #3021
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets Leynos's Avatar
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    I love the green Xbox cases. I love the blue PS4 cases. I like how every brand is color-coded now. Xbox. Green. Sony. Blue. Nintendo. Red.

    Life!? ... What console is that on?



    [PSN] Segata-S //[Switch] FC-SW 3892 5228 2895 //[XBL]Dogi99


  7. #3022
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Or how the console, OS, and game cases are covered in Mountain Dew colour.


    Also I should finally have content to post again tonight.
    The Japanese GameCube cases were awesome, so small and cute. I also loved the use of Orange and white for Japanese DC manuals and cover
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  8. #3023
    Raging in the Streets Blades's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Or how the console, OS, and game cases are covered in Mountain Dew colour.
    Green is the worst color.

  9. #3024
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    I got some stuff to post, if anyone is gonna stay up late with me.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  10. #3025
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Skies of arcadia bloom off :


    skies of arcadia bloom on:
    Good to see. There use to be a active poster in this thread, Kamahl, he was really unimpressed with the post-processing effects on the Dreamcast but maybe eventually someone could show him your post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    Green is the worst color.
    I think you meant to reply to Segata, but I feel they made the green colour scheme work for the 360, it has a insanely better appearance compared to OG Xbox. Forest green and white chocolate is much better than Mountain Dew and black tar.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  11. #3026
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    So I will be pumping and dumping a lot of these PS1/N64 ports. Meaning if the game isn't doing anything impressive, I will take a couple screenshots and captures and get rid of it.


    This is Jeremy McGrath SuperCross 2000. This was first released for the N64 in February 2000, they then ported it to PS1/Dreamcast 6 months later. Sounds like enough time to make some improvements right?

    Luckily they did try to lock the framerate to 60 FPS, though sadly its dips nonstop, even though this game still has the N64 polycounts. They also made a few other minor improvements.




    The riders have dynamic shadows, though the textures are the same as the N64 version.



    These barriers have upgraded textures.



    The freestyle mode has a second screen, this would be a lot for the N64 to handle so I doubt it has it.



    Very high-res banners on the wall, even the PS2 might have a problem with those.




    Even though this game has a very unstable framerate, we're gonna be generous and say its a constant 60 FPS. So this scene is 160,000 PPS, would be 80,000 PPS on N64.



    Player rider is 750 polygons.



    Rival rider is 450 polygons.




    No rivals on-screen. 150,000 PPS.




    1 rival on-screen. 150,000 PPS



    Rival rider is same 450 polygons.




    Freestyle mode. You can see that second screen is a software effect, it has no polygons in it. 200,000 PPS



    Player rider is same 750 polygons.


    So this game isn't a complete piece of junk, but still a piece a junk.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  12. #3027
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    So I will be pumping and dumping a lot of these PS1/N64 ports. Meaning if the game isn't doing anything impressive, I will take a couple screenshots and captures and get rid of it.


    This is Jeremy McGrath SuperCross 2000. This was first released for the N64 in February 2000, they then ported it to PS1/Dreamcast 6 months later. Sounds like enough time to make some improvements right?

    Luckily they did try to lock the framerate to 60 FPS, though sadly its dips nonstop, even though this game still has the N64 polycounts. They also made a few other minor improvements.




    The riders have dynamic shadows, though the textures are the same as the N64 version.



    These barriers have upgraded textures.



    The freestyle mode has a second screen, this would be a lot for the N64 to handle so I doubt it has it.



    Very high-res banners on the wall, even the PS2 might have a problem with those.




    Even though this game has a very unstable framerate, we're gonna be generous and say its a constant 60 FPS. So this scene is 160,000 PPS, would be 80,000 PPS on N64.



    Player rider is 750 polygons.



    Rival rider is 450 polygons.




    No rivals on-screen. 150,000 PPS.




    1 rival on-screen. 150,000 PPS



    Rival rider is same 450 polygons.




    Freestyle mode. You can see that second screen is a software effect, it has no polygons in it. 200,000 PPS



    Player rider is same 750 polygons.


    So this game isn't a complete piece of junk, but still a piece a junk.
    the second screen is the same way as cart flag to flag. Its called render to texture, dynamic texture rendered and updated every frame from a different viewpoint. Which is probably the main reason for frame rate instability for the dc version. Thats why alot of other games just render a scene and clip/cull to make it look like a rear view mirror like in daytona 2001( this like two player splitscreen but cut out to make a mirror). Its probably faster for the dc to just waste for polygons than use render to texture.

  13. #3028
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    when you can compare with this https://youtu.be/DhSwLHg6IsY early ps2 game just like nascar.

  14. #3029
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    the second screen is the same way as cart flag to flag. Its called render to texture, dynamic texture rendered and updated every frame from a different viewpoint. Which is probably the main reason for frame rate instability for the dc version. Thats why alot of other games just render a scene and clip/cull to make it look like a rear view mirror like in daytona 2001( this like two player splitscreen but cut out to make a mirror). Its probably faster for the dc to just waste for polygons than use render to texture.
    So a frame buffer used as a texture.


    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    when you can compare with this https://youtu.be/DhSwLHg6IsY early ps2 game just like nascar.
    Fairly good graphics for a early PS2 game, I added it to my list.


    Also we gotta talk about 3rd party support. This is the only off-road bike game for the Dreamcast. Because of the 3rd party situation with the Dreamcast, it has huge genre imbalances. It may have like 40 fighting games, 20 shoot-em-ups, 30 racing games. But theres only 2 golf games, 2 rally games, 1 snowboarding game, 2 hockey games.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  15. #3030
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
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    So since Cloofoofoo fairly delayed this, I gotta ask this one more time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    One more post. So we will play a game. You guys will determine which post I will make as the next backlog post.

    What do you want to see next? The first one that gets 2 votes wins.

    1. Ephemeral Fantasia post
    2. Street Fighter EX3 post
    3. Rayman 2 PS2 vs Dreamcast Initial Comparison
    This means TA, Leynos, Black_Tiger, gamevet, Blades, stu, which one do you want to see from me next?
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

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