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Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #3421
    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingESWAT Veteran Leynos's Avatar
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    Oh, no worries. I was playing it on my DC. I was just impressed with the models while playing it. Yeah, it's Naomi but oddly came to PS2 a year before DC. I just figured if there was any difference that would be an interesting one to see.

    Life?!...What console is that on?

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    Resident Evil 4 - Pc version 2007
    I hear the assets of this version is based off the ps2 and where heavily downgraded. The assets were much easier to extract with available models tools built for modding it than gamecube version. Downgraded is an understatement. Interestingly it even has low lods for mob characters. IMO this one here could have been very doable on the dreamcast shave 1k off leon and keep the mob on low lod and it would work.

    r11 (swamp) - 42,019 triangles


    r100(starting point of game) - 48,902 triangles


    r400( village mercs) - 46,796 triangles


    Leon(gameplay) - 5,011 triangles


    Luis - 4,197 triangles


    Ashley pop star costume - 5,424 triangles


    Regular ganado - 1,232 triangles


    army ganado - 1,210 triangles


    regular ganado(low poly lod ) - 794 triangles

  3. #3423
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    don't insist, the Dreamcast doesn't have hardware capable of running RE4 but I could even imagine some games that have a GameCube version for Dreamcast in terms of media (~1GB) and ram memory: DC 16mb GC's 24mb would have to be more games simple because the Dreamcast processor is very weak and GPU too, in general GC 60fps games could maybe be reduced to 30fps since Sonic adventure DX (with good shadows) has 60fps on the GC and 30fps on the Dreamcast this allows us to think about the possibility of porting a 60fps GC to 30fps on the Dreamcast lower shadows and reduced polygons but it would be possible to imagine a port such as Metroid Prime on DC as a middle of the GameCube Metroid and Metroid Prime Hunters Nintendo DS version. However 30fps games that make a lot of cpu and gpu use I can't imagine a port on the Dreamcast

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    is it possible to extract numbers from the game God Hand or Ghosthunter?

  5. #3425
    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingESWAT Veteran Leynos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    don't insist, the Dreamcast doesn't have hardware capable of running RE4 but I could even imagine some games that have a GameCube version for Dreamcast in terms of media (~1GB) and ram memory: DC 16mb GC's 24mb would have to be more games simple because the Dreamcast processor is very weak and GPU too, in general GC 60fps games could maybe be reduced to 30fps since Sonic adventure DX (with good shadows) has 60fps on the GC and 30fps on the Dreamcast this allows us to think about the possibility of porting a 60fps GC to 30fps on the Dreamcast lower shadows and reduced polygons but it would be possible to imagine a port such as Metroid Prime on DC as a middle of the GameCube Metroid and Metroid Prime Hunters Nintendo DS version. However 30fps games that make a lot of cpu and gpu use I can't imagine a port on the Dreamcast
    RE4 was on Zeebo.

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  6. #3426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leynos View Post
    RE4 was on Zeebo.
    it's not the same game.

    I really like the Dreamcast but the difference in ram memory between the two consoles is so expressive.. twice. The ram memory that determines if a game runs or not another console, note handheld are always weaker video card but they usually have more ram. 3ds that being weaker than ps2 and gamecube can run a game like RE Revelations the ram memory was fundamental, the same can be said about psp that has a video card closer to dreamcast but the same amount of ram as the ps2, ports are possible ps2 to psp and ps2/psp- Dreamcast impossible. RAM memory is what defines which platform can do more, even if it has a weaker video card. again the 3DS is a good example. IMHO.
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 08-10-2022 at 11:30 AM. Reason: grammatical errors

  7. #3427
    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingESWAT Veteran Leynos's Avatar
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    Capcom would port it to DC if they felt they could make a profit. They squeezed RE1 on a Game Boy Color cart. If a dev wants their game on a system they will put it there. The switch has a bunch of impossible ports. Just how much time do they want to put into it and optimize.

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  8. #3428
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    if you my forum colleagues think that memory is not important and again PS2 has more than GC and DC go to this thread here on Saturn where a user who program says that even consoles with equal amounts of memories, but in different config, one of them usually do things (supposedly) that the another doesn't.

    https://www.sega-16.com/forum/showth...814#post886814

    now imagine having 30% to 100% more memory from one console to the other. although I disagree with him about Saturn and PS1, his argument can be useful for this PS2 vs DC.

  9. #3429
    The Future is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingESWAT Veteran Leynos's Avatar
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    They ported you to this world from Bizzaro land, so anything is possible.

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  10. #3430
    Hero of Algol TrekkiesUnite118's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    if you my forum colleagues think that memory is not important and again PS2 has more than GC and DC go to this thread here on Saturn where a user who program says that even consoles with equal amounts of memories, but in different config, one of them usually do things (supposedly) that the another doesn't.

    https://www.sega-16.com/forum/showth...814#post886814

    now imagine having 30% to 100% more memory from one console to the other. although I disagree with him about Saturn and PS1, his argument can be useful for this PS2 vs DC.
    Oh for the love of god. This is an apples to oranges comparison on multiple levels. The most egregious one being that Resident Evil 2 relies on pre-rendered graphics, while Resident Evil 4 relies on real-time graphics. The memory requirements for those are two different things, pre-rendered is going to be far more wasteful in memory. When rendering in real time you can do things like reduce the map model complexity, texture quality, texture variety, etc. to get your memory footprint down without having as severe of an impact as you would if you had to cut entire backgrounds out of a pre-rendered map in RE2.

  11. #3431
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    don't insist, the Dreamcast doesn't have hardware capable of running RE4 but I could even imagine some games that have a GameCube version for Dreamcast in terms of media (~1GB) and ram memory: DC 16mb GC's 24mb would have to be more games simple because the Dreamcast processor is very weak and GPU too, in general GC 60fps games could maybe be reduced to 30fps since Sonic adventure DX (with good shadows) has 60fps on the GC and 30fps on the Dreamcast this allows us to think about the possibility of porting a 60fps GC to 30fps on the Dreamcast lower shadows and reduced polygons but it would be possible to imagine a port such as Metroid Prime on DC as a middle of the GameCube Metroid and Metroid Prime Hunters Nintendo DS version. However 30fps games that make a lot of cpu and gpu use I can't imagine a port on the Dreamcast
    Thats where youre wrong. If youre looking at this game for the ram storage then i hate to break it to you that shenmue 2 last disc maps hit up to 200,000 triangles( the whole map section in memory not streamed) , storing far more than what ever resident evil 4 is doing on ps2. I bet when youre talking out of your ass you didnt know that. As a matter of fact maps of shenmue 2 are like 50k to 70k on average all this while streaming pedestrians in and out . ( not emulator numbers but maps extracted from disc assets). Pc/ps2 is more downgraded than you think, gc used bumpmaps/ specular and those were removed, only the diffuse texture remains. Not to mention things can be compressed specifically for the way pvr wants it, forgo mimaps, modify assets . Its not absolute. You do realize dreamcast ran pc ports that needed 64 mb to 128mb ram this way dont you?

    Cpu wise it might even be less extensive in re4, for the main characters head and hands using morphing to void having to waste cpu time on bones. The pc version omits all framebuffer effects ( vram used on stuff like motion blur and bloom ) and ps2/pc have 700 triangle lods for zombies. At most they can shave down leon/ playable character down to 3k at minimal visual loss. Heck i tested doing this. And with pvr vq compression you can fit alot( someone has shown me an uncompressed naomi2 pvr 512x512 texture thats half a megabyte with vq compressed 512x512 goes down to 67kb)

    The tools are there and the pc version looks specifically should be very doable on dc. It even lacks the lighting( vertex lighting color information isnt appied) the ps2 had. They obviously didnt care pushing ps2/pc a whole lot for this port and it shows, a 30 fps port with similar or even same asset of pc would definitely be possible.

    Shenmue 2 map
    Last edited by Cloofoofoo; 08-12-2022 at 08:43 PM.

  12. #3432
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    Now that i think about it i forgot to post dead or alive 2 results here now that extraction tools allow to extract naomilib based games from assets directly. Surprisingly doa2 is super high. At tag mode with 3 characters on screen 24,000 to 30,000 triangles @ 60 fps not counting the stage, the characters are higher than tekken tag(4k to 6k tris) or even bloody roar 3( 6k tris) or even vf4 ps2 (7.5k) , close vf4 naomi 2( 12k tris). Also a hacked debug version was released that allowed you to mess with lighting and a activate up to 6 to 7 lights. I activated 6 to 7 lights and as long as they were directional the gamecran about 30 fps, so not bad for 25k to 35k triangles per frame.


    Dead or Alive 2 ( limited edition )- Dreamcast
    Extracted using naomilib for the model files. Out of curiousity to compare Doa2 to other games , I looked through other peoples dump of naomi 2 version vf4 and vf5 FS character models. Results were surprising. Naomi 2 virtua fighter 4 character models ranged from 12k to 14 triangles(double of its ps2 counterpart) and Virtua fighter 5 FS ranged from 10K( dural) - 20k triangles. At around 10k triangles per model DoA2 is impressive. especially for an early game.

    Tina costume 2 - 10,028 triangles ( no shadow volumes)


    ein costume 4 - 9,005 triangles ( no shadow volume)



    Demons Church( lower floor) - 17,358

  13. #3433
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
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    Team Ninja were coding monsters at the time. DOA 2 was just a knockout with some of the best and most colourful and beautiful texture work, I had ever seen in a video game at the time and they just took to a whole new level on the OG XBox.

    Such a shame what happened with Itagaki-san and Temco
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  14. #3434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Team Ninja were coding monsters at the time. DOA 2 was just a knockout with some of the best and most colourful and beautiful texture work, I had ever seen in a video game at the time and they just took to a whole new level on the OG XBox.

    Such a shame what happened with Itagaki-san and Temco
    Yes they were insane with the amount of detail their games had. I actually had a few for doa 3 and doa2u . The jump was massive from 2. You had characters that were 12k to 15k ( if not higher since iam going off the top of my head) triangles and stages were like 70k triangles. I am pretty sure nothing else could touch them. All this not counting all the effects, shadows, multitexturing ( specular, normal maps).

  15. #3435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Yes they were insane with the amount of detail their games had. I actually had a few for doa 3 and doa2u . The jump was massive from 2. You had characters that were 12k to 15k ( if not higher since iam going off the top of my head) triangles and stages were like 70k triangles. I am pretty sure nothing else could touch them. All this not counting all the effects, shadows, multitexturing ( specular, normal maps).
    I quite agree, I remember getting DOA 3, PGR and Halo with my import OG Xbox and the graphics in DOA3 were the best I had ever seen in the home or the Arcade. Team Ninja were something else back then
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

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