Quantcast

Page 217 of 219 FirstFirst ... 117167207213214215216217218219 LastLast
Results 3,241 to 3,255 of 3277

Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #3241
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,081
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    I like to look at things from a historical viewpoint, there is no denying that Dreamcast has better texture maps than the PS2 and the gamecube see sonic adventure, but each of these consoles has its peculiarities that are show on exclusives games.

    When PS2 arrived, many players didn't know about Dreamcast and were impressed with games like Street Fighter Ex3 when Soul Calibur was already displaying better visuals a year ago. Speaking properly of textures Trickstyle has some of the best colors and textures of the generation and it's a dreamcast launching game, before the ps2 arrived DC had Sonic, shenmue, Berserk, F355 and power stone and after the arrival of the Japanese ps2 on the console Sega had JSR, RE code veronica, ecco the dolphin, Dracunus, pso. above than ps2 early games

    All of these games had better textures than the PS2 displayed throughout the console's life cycle. many of the best ps2 textures came from that period below 2002.

    What happened ? I have 6 theories

    1) I believe that few people have actually touched or seen a dreamcast, most migrated from ps1 or N64 to ps2 without going through Dreamcast first and then they blew their minds.

    2) Another theory of mine would be that the PS2 textures were not as bad at all, games like Orphen, Giants, summoner, kessen or even evergrace might not have textures as good as Dracunus but had textures good enough for the general public.

    3) the lack of widespread use of the internet these days, today if a console appears to make things worse than an old one, the internet the forums, the social media, youtube chanel talk about it.

    4) there was an idea that the ps2 was not only more powerful than DC but much more powerful, so even if DC's Dead or alive presents better textures in some stages, the idea that it was temporary than in the future they would discover how to make better textures on ps2, which didnít happen, I analyzed almost all the ps2 fighting games, most of them prevail the unique colors and their main color is light brown, this is due to the limited texture cache.

    5) the graphic relativization, we see this in the games Dead or alive 2, the ps2 added effects of lights, motion and new stages while the dreamcast offered a clean look and better textures, almost all people find the DC look better, I particularly I prefer the look of the ps2 version, in F355 the same thing the colors of some skyboxes were darkened to save vram and some light textures were taken, besides the aliasing being more evident, considering the ps2 added better lighting, higher polygonal count becoming a better version. Re code veronica the game in very opaque on the PS2, but there are no other big differences, the ps2 version added more gci and a demo courtesy of the dvd, using these strategies Sony was undermining the Dreamcast positives of people's minds and replacing them for the positive points of the PS2, the first Jak game is discrete as fog free with really good textures for the ps2, but when you compare it with sonic adventure from 1998 in the wind stage, the dreamcast stones really slaughter the jaK stones, only in that period, a lot had even forgotten what a dreamcast or sonic adventure was
    so they accepted Jak's textures as being high-performance and they are actually within the PS2 standard.

    6) Change in the style of games, observing the Dreamcast games few games have free movement, RE and Berserk have fixed cameras only Dracunus and the games that came from ps1 like Soul Reaver and shadowman, rayman 2.

    Dracunus is the best example it appears to have an open area but full of fog, games like evergrace and dark cloud have textures inferior to dracunus but these games are free to move as there is no equal in Dreamcast, this also moved with the people's perspective.
    Well let me tell you, the first Dreamcast game I played was Sonic Adventure and I was thinking the graphics looked fairly similar to PS2 games, but the main thing I noticed was the textures were noticeably better than most PS2 games. These were my first impressions of Dreamcast, I was constantly comparing it to the PS2

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    People forget and need to factor in Soul Calibur wasn't a DC launch title. So it's not always fair to bring that up for the Japanese launch of the PS2 and it wasn't like the Japanese launch of the DC was much better than the PS2 launch in Japan
    Yes the Japanese launches for both consoles were botched
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  2. #3242
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,028
    Rep Power
    70

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Well let me tell you, the first Dreamcast game I played was Sonic Adventure and I was thinking the graphics looked fairly similar to PS2 games, but the main thing I noticed was the textures were noticeably better than most PS2 games. These were my first impressions of Dreamcast, I was constantly comparing it to the PS2

    Yes the Japanese launches for both consoles were botched
    Both didn't have great software line ups and both had games delayed too. SEGA Dreamcast launch was even worse mind with them having to slash 500,000 pre-orders down to just over 100,000 (at least SONY had like a million units to go) and then a last minute delay to Sonic Adv. Really SEGA would have been far better off delaying the launch of the DC until March 1999. When loads of games were then ready and no issues with hardware numbers.

    Mind I did laugh when my Import shop got the launch PS2. For all that talk of 77 million polygons and Toy Story real time CG we had Fantavision and RR V LOL. RRV looked worse to me that Toyko Street Racer on the DC
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  3. #3243
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,081
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    I will give you guys a reminder.

    Have I demonstrated the PS2 can do a lot more polygons than the Dreamcast?

    Absolutely. If the PS2 was a well-balanced console released in March 2000, it would do about 5 million PPS. But of course the PS2 isn't a well-balanced console, with its bandwidth and processor power it can hit very high polycounts for its time:

    This is F1 Championship Season 2000 hitting 6.6 million PPS:




    The highest I can get out of Wacky Races is 2.6 million PPS. Which you all know is pretty close to the Dreamcast limit.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  4. #3244
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,081
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Both didn't have great software line ups and both had games delayed too. SEGA Dreamcast launch was even worse mind with them having to slash 500,000 pre-orders down to just over 100,000 (at least SONY had like a million units to go) and then a last minute delay to Sonic Adv. Really SEGA would have been far better off delaying the launch of the DC until March 1999. When loads of games were then ready and no issues with hardware numbers.

    Mind I did laugh when my Import shop got the launch PS2. For all that talk of 77 million polygons and Toy Story real time CG we had Fantavision and RR V LOL. RRV looked worse to me that Toyko Street Racer on the DC
    Eh the biggest problem with Tokyo Xtreme Racer is the whole game needed like 33% more polygons, I can't see it looking better than Ridge Racer V.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  5. #3245
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,028
    Rep Power
    70

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Eh the biggest problem with Tokyo Xtreme Racer is the whole game needed like 33% more polygons, I can't see it looking better than Ridge Racer V.
    I do, RRV was a blurry jaggie mess of a game. I liked the super smooth frame mind. I think it was ICO and SH II were the 1st PS2 titles to knock my socks off. In fact ICO was so good it made me buy the system
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  6. #3246
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,081
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I do, RRV was a blurry jaggie mess of a game. I liked the super smooth frame mind. I think it was ICO and SH II were the 1st PS2 titles to knock my socks off. In fact ICO was so good it made me buy the system
    Maybe we need more opinions in here.

    Hey Leynos, Ridge Racer V vs Tokyo Xtreme Racer?
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  7. #3247
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,081
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    So I finished my PS1 setup.


    I'm using PCSX2 for the good screenshots. Did you know you can play PS1 games in a PS2 emulator? Absolutely amazing. Of course since the PS1 resolution is way smaller than PS2 or Dreamcast, the screenshots will be smaller.



    Player select. I thought the scanlines might look good but I will still try to remove them.



    Space stage. With PS1 there isn't gonna be transparencies, volume modifiers and particle effects.




    145,000 PPS. Seems like a lot for the PS1, but I did make sure the game actually runs at 60 FPS.




    Dealing with a mini-boss. 119,000 PPS



    Player ship is 160 polygons.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  8. #3248
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    489
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Well let me tell you, the first Dreamcast game I played was Sonic Adventure and I was thinking the graphics looked fairly similar to PS2 games, but the main thing I noticed was the textures were noticeably better than most PS2 games. These were my first impressions of Dreamcast, I was constantly comparing it to the PS2

    honestly I never noticed at the time that the textures were better, that understanding was late, the first games I played on DC were Sonic Adventure, soul calibur, mortal kombat Gold and shenmue and the first ones I played on PS2 were Mk 5, winning eleven 7 gt3 and gta 3. When I saw these games they looked like another generation. Only years later after conversations on the internet and observing exclusively the textures did I realize that the PS2 had less capacity in this regard, so I believe that the changes in the games were crucial, Soul Calibur has a realistic look if you print a screenshot you will see in the character Astaroth nails and skin very close to human. If you take MK5 deadly alliance the graphics will be more detailed but the game has a child clay look, I never noticed it, so I believe that if the Dreamcast stays longer or if there were social media at the time, people would see it that even the simplest Dreamcast games were just as beautiful. so I like to watch a historical step by step, and then I'll post. Dreamcast textures are superior now we have to understand why people just didn't care.

  9. #3249
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,028
    Rep Power
    70

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Maybe we need more opinions in here.
    I thought the Tokyo Xtreme Racer display was far cleaner, I loved the lightings effects on the car and street lights and it 480p It looked something else. RR V on the PS just looked to run in lower res and was jaggies everywhere and the Split screen mode was a bit of a joke with fogging. If it wasn't for the frame rate drops I would have said Sega Rally II would have looked better too. Like I've said before it took until ESPN Track and Field where I started seeing gfx that the DC couldn't handle and a little latter then came ICO
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  10. #3250
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    489
    Rep Power
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I thought the Tokyo Xtreme Racer display was far cleaner, I loved the lightings effects on the car and street lights and it 480p It looked something else. RR V on the PS just looked to run in lower res and was jaggies everywhere and the Split screen mode was a bit of a joke with fogging. If it wasn't for the frame rate drops I would have said Sega Rally II would have looked better too. Like I've said before it took until ESPN Track and Field where I started seeing gfx that the DC couldn't handle and a little latter then came ICO
    RRV has a crisp look despite jaggies IMO racing games is better on PS2 since day one, games that made me feel thw Dreamcast texture capabilities were Sonic, Skies of arcadia, shenmue, soul calibur, trickstyle, spawn, dracunus, PSO, Quake 3, Dead or alive 2, kiss Circus, cannon spike
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 11-18-2020 at 09:03 AM.

  11. #3251
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,028
    Rep Power
    70

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    RRV has a crisp look despite jaggies IMO racing games is better on PS2 since day one, games that made me feel thw Dreamcast texture capabilities were Sonic, Skies of arcadia, shenmue, soul calibur, trickstyle, spawn, dracunus, PSO, Quake 3, Dead or alive 2, kiss Circus, cannon spike
    I wouldn't agree and if you're talking about racers and DC textures Daytona USA 2001 really shows off the system. It was hard to fault OutTrigger, VO II, Pen Pen, Virtual Striker 2, Power Stone, Rayman II, Samba De Amigo, Maxen X for crisp, colourful vibrant textures on the DC
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  12. #3252
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,081
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    honestly I never noticed at the time that the textures were better, that understanding was late, the first games I played on DC were Sonic Adventure, soul calibur, mortal kombat Gold and shenmue and the first ones I played on PS2 were Mk 5, winning eleven 7 gt3 and gta 3. When I saw these games they looked like another generation. Only years later after conversations on the internet and observing exclusively the textures did I realize that the PS2 had less capacity in this regard, so I believe that the changes in the games were crucial, Soul Calibur has a realistic look if you print a screenshot you will see in the character Astaroth nails and skin very close to human. If you take MK5 deadly alliance the graphics will be more detailed but the game has a child clay look, I never noticed it, so I believe that if the Dreamcast stays longer or if there were social media at the time, people would see it that even the simplest Dreamcast games were just as beautiful. so I like to watch a historical step by step, and then I'll post. Dreamcast textures are superior now we have to understand why people just didn't care.
    Ok its good to see you had a good first impression of both consoles, besides Mortal Kombat Gold which was a rush port. In fact I don't have a single graphical complaint about Soul Calibur.


    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I thought the Tokyo Xtreme Racer display was far cleaner, I loved the lightings effects on the car and street lights and it 480p It looked something else. RR V on the PS just looked to run in lower res and was jaggies everywhere and the Split screen mode was a bit of a joke with fogging. If it wasn't for the frame rate drops I would have said Sega Rally II would have looked better too. Like I've said before it took until ESPN Track and Field where I started seeing gfx that the DC couldn't handle and a little latter then came ICO
    I posted ESPN International Track & Field, its essentially doing nothing the Dreamcast couldn't handle. ICO, yes sure fine, the Dreamcast has a hard time with bloom.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  13. #3253
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,081
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Tokyo Xtreme Racer vs. Ridge Racer V Brief Comparison


    We will look at the games in a brief way. You guys should decide which one looks better.

    Tokyo Xtreme Racer (Dreamcast, 1999)



    This game has a lot of a things right. Right away we can see the presentation is insanely better than Ridge Racer V, running at full 480p and not much aliasing. But again, the biggest problem is the game has nowhere enough polygons, only running at like 30% of the Dreamcast capacity.



    These 1300 polygon cars just aren't cutting it.



    Roadside detail is insanely basic.



    That roof should've had polygon detail.



    But textures are also a huge leap above Ridge Racer V.


    Ridge Racer V (PS2, 2000)



    Yes this game has a much worse presentation, running at low-res 480i. But this game is running at 4x the polygons, its a night and day difference and I think makes the game win overall.



    These cars are an insane 7500 polygons.



    Much more advanced roadside detail.



    More very good roadside detail.



    Of course there might be some of those harsh jaggies.




    Now Tokyo Xtreme Racer 2 did solve a lot of the problems, but the roadside detail is still pretty bad. Though if you wanna say this game looks as good as Rider Racer V, I could likely agree.



    You see the difference that more polygons makes? These cars are 4600 polygons.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  14. #3254
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    6,028
    Rep Power
    70

    Default

    Like I've said before it's not always about the total number of polygons but how the game looks overall and I gave an example before in how Call Of Duty 4 was using fewer polygons than Call Of Duty 2 but looked a better game.
    Toyko just looked a far better game to me and it's PS bashing for the sake of it, but how I felt at the time.

    RRV didn't impress me at all on the graphics front and those jaggies and low res graphics stook out like a soar thumb to me. For similar reasons I never was impressed with how TimeSplitters looked on the PS2 on the UK launch and yet everyone raved about it.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  15. #3255
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,081
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Like I've said before it's not always about the total number of polygons but how the game looks overall and I gave an example before in how Call Of Duty 4 was using fewer polygons than Call Of Duty 2 but looked a better game.
    Toyko just looked a far better game to me and it's PS bashing for the sake of it, but how I felt at the time.

    RRV didn't impress me at all on the graphics front and those jaggies and low res graphics stook out like a soar thumb to me. For similar reasons I never was impressed with how TimeSplitters looked on the PS2 on the UK launch and yet everyone raved about it.
    Ok, you can think what you want. Tokyo Xtreme Racer(Highway Challenge) looks better.

    Hey Leynos, you ever gonna come back to this thread? Gamevet, Black Tiger? Which game looks better?

    I already know which game SegaAMD thinks looks better.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •