PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

[Yharnamresident]

Once this is solved my Dolphin setup is complete:

[Cloofoofoo]

Once this is solved my Dolphin setup is complete:

Its unimportant though. I cant help you if you dont know the scale function. Basically you have to scale on the axis that goes into the "camera" depending how it loads it might be y or z axis. Highlight all the models and use the scale tool. Just scale on depth past it collapse on it self. It will mirror it

[Yharnamresident]

Honestly that might be a good enough job of explaining it.

[Yharnamresident]

So you are essentially telling me to mirror it. Don't worry I know how to, I gotta do it with Makaron. Its doing it properly after I changed some settings:




Whos ready for F-Zero GX?

[Yharnamresident]

So I will be backing up Cloofoofoo's post for F-Zero GX. Also a lot of you can be relieved we finally got polycounts after almost a decade. With my emulator knowledge combined with Cloofoofoo's assistance.






My favourite car, the Red Gazelle.







I can show you guys how good I am at this game.






Lots of cars on-screen. If you can't read the polygons its 67830. 4.05 million PPS




1 car on-screen. 3.25 million PPS




Lots of mid-LOD cars on-screen. 3.55 million PPS




1 car on-screen. 2.35 million PPS


So this game likely runs at 3-4.4 million PPS. A big leap over the Dreamcast, the PS2 could handle these polycounts but obviously with not as much detail.

I can make a post about Sonic Adventure and the Monkey Ball games then thats its for Dolphin.

[TrekkiesUnite118]

I own that game and again it doesnt jitter like that on actual gdrom disc. All cutscenes. Its actually more likely to jitter when it streams the hi lod model switched from low lod during gameplay. Ive completed this game at least 4 times.. so yeah.

That video is literally a VGA capture from real hardware. And again, the music desyncs when the game doesn't have the framerate drops. That's a pretty good way to tell if someone is using an emulator in their video or they're playing the PC version. Just about every video that's emulated or is of the PC version has this performance difference and music sync issue. While every video of it running on an actual Dreamcast plays out exactly as the video I posted.

To be honest youre being like segamd . Moving the goal post , " oh , it can do it only in burst but can it do it continuously like fzero gx?" .

I'm not moving a goal post here. I'm not directly arguing with you in the first place. Barone and I are talking about older arguments which kicked off this very thread 10 years ago. Do you not understand that? I'm not denying it can do those effects and in some cases can do them well. I'm simply saying contrary to what people said here years ago, Dreamcast isn't going to run out and do every major first and third party AAA game on the PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube just as well as those consoles did. It has it's limits and the info you've been providing pretty much backs that up.

That's not a bad thing, it just explains what it's limits are and how games would need to be tailored around it as time went on.

I am deeply sorry but i give 0 fucks for fzero gx. Impressive as it is. Its weird to focus on that example and ignore 60 fps Refraction on mazan or 60 fps depth of field in spikers battle as small as they are.

We brought up F-Zero GX because years ago sheath brought it up claiming Dreamcast could handle it with no cuts or issues.

What if i told you that it can run these filters through out an entire game without fps penalty? With the debug version of rez i did. No penalty and i even layers 2 to 3 post process filters for an entire game. Dont believe me? Look. While these captures arent mine, ive done exactly the samw on real hardware.

The game you're doing that on is Rez, which while nice looking artistically, isn't really doing anything crazy when it comes to pushing polygons, textures, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason it's capped at 30fps on Dreamcast is so those kinds of effects don't have a major performance impact. Which if that is the case, I'd imagine the Dreamcast trying to do something a bit more demanding with higher polgyon counts, textures, etc. would start to have a bigger impact on those effects.

Again I'm not denying Dreamcast can do those effects, nor am I denying that certain games could be designed to do them well. I'm simply saying it's going to have trouble running some of the more demanding games that came out after it was discontinued.

[Cloofoofoo]

Honestly that might be a good enough job of explaining it.

You might actually have some more fun if you look at ps2 ports to wii. Sakura wars 5 , baroque , rygar. For rygar you will need version 3.5 2276 to run it( also runs twin snakes)

[SegaAMD]

unfortunately my computer that I use to play emulators has broken down, I will no longer be able to do the polycounts that I promised (which is better as they wouldn't be accurate ) This mission to check the ''crappy ports'' is now yours.

Tarzan, 007, Batman, simpsons road rage, Tony hawk 3, medal of honor frontline, Timesplitters 2, Turok Evolution, Jedi Outcast 2.

let's move this thread

[Cloofoofoo]

Quake 3 : Arena - Dreamcast
Surprisingly uses standard quake 3 models in zip files.Players are in highest lod.

shotgun - 558 triangles


rocket launcher - 405 triangles


Slash - 185 triangles + 356 triangles + 393 triangles =935 triangles




sorlag - 64 triangles + 386 triangle + 400 triangles = 850 triangles




map13 - 20,862 triangles


map11 - 17,119 triangles


map21 - 17,162 triangles

[Yharnamresident]

You might actually have some more fun if you look at ps2 ports to wii. Sakura wars 5 , baroque , rygar. For rygar you will need version 3.5 2276 to run it( also runs twin snakes)

I can at least look at them on Wikipedia.

unfortunately my computer that I use to play emulators has broken down, I will no longer be able to do the polycounts that I promised (which is better as they wouldn't be accurate ) This mission to check the ''crappy ports'' is now yours.

Tarzan, 007, Batman, simpsons road rage, Tony hawk 3, medal of honor frontline, Timesplitters 2, Turok Evolution, Jedi Outcast 2.

let's move this thread

This is what me and your pal Cloofoofoo like to hear.

Anyways you already told me to look at the Monaco track in F1 Racing Championship. Its a good idea so that will be done first, there hasn't been a PS2 game posted this entire month.

We brought up F-Zero GX because years ago sheath brought it up claiming Dreamcast could handle it with no cuts or issues.

Nope, has to be running at half the polycounts with a lot less detail.

I'll be doing more captures for F-Zero GX so the polycounts finally are settled.

[Yharnamresident]

Geez, its gonna be a dramatic difference going from F-Zero GX to that very average F1 game.

[Yharnamresident]

F-Zero GX is an important game. Not only was it a huge commercial and financial success, it is known as having the best graphics of any 6th gen racing game with the exception of some Xbox games. I do think that is the case.




This is the last time I'll show how good I am at this game.



The Black Bull is always in 1st or 2nd, its a fast car that only a CPU can control properly.



The elusive Cosmo Terminal.







1 car on-screen. 3.35 million PPS




1 high-LOD car and a couple low-LOD cars. 4.2 million PPS




Same situation. 3.8 million PPS




A couple mid-LOD and low-LOD cars on-screen. 3 million PPS




Lots of low-LOD cars. 3.95 million PPS




Lots of cars on-screen. 4.45 million PPS




A couple mid-LOD and low-LOD cars. 4.6 million PPS




1 high-LOD car, lots of mid-LOD and low-LOD cars. 3.6 million PPS

My official rating for this game is 3-4.4 million PPS.

[Leynos]

MagForce is the only thing I can think of off the top of my head that is similar to F-Zero on Dreamcast. I don't know if it was based on the Arcade version or PS1 version tho.

[Yharnamresident]

MagForce is the only thing I can think of off the top of my head that is similar to F-Zero on Dreamcast. I don't know if it was based on the Arcade version or PS1 version tho.

Get that low-budget junk out of your head.

A game like Wacky Races or Sonic Adventure 2: Kart Racing are much better examples.

[Cloofoofoo]

F-Zero GX is an important game. Not only was it a huge commercial and financial success, it is known as having the best graphics of any 6th gen racing game with the exception of some Xbox games. I do think that is the case.


[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/3Dil

This is the last time I'll show how good I am at this game.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/]

The Black Bull is always in 1st or 2nd, its a fast car that only a CPU can control properly.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/

The elusive Cosmo Terminal.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/


[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/NFjP
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/N1DKi0z

1 car on-screen. 3.35 million PPS

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/lzIhe

1 high-LOD car and a couple low-LOD cars. 4.2 million PPS

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/IEH
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/TiOR

Same situation. 3.8 million PPS

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/DSFBw4f.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/CQyoYL

A couple mid-LOD and low-LOD cars on-screen. 3 million PPS

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/6BObAH
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/VpzY

Lots of low-LOD cars. 3.95 million PPS

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/NEHQ
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/R3MxnvX

Lots of cars on-screen. 4.45 million PPS

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/Bq1c
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/MJpHbQ

A couple mid-LOD and low-LOD cars. 4.6 million PPS

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/d5E7
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/uOWOg

1 high-LOD car, lots of mid-LOD and low-LOD cars. 3.6 million PPS

My official rating for this game is 3-4.4

I think your over blowing honestly. It's a good looking game but it's really not the best. Especially compared to late geb PS2 stuff. Even mediocre games like battle gear 3 on PS2 we're approaching this polygon count( if not match it) but with even more effects like environment maps pavement, bloom, radial blur, heat haze, depth of field , real time reflections ( on even rival cars) .

On another note, an acquaintance showed me a screen shot he took of one of the 3d shining force games of the PS2 in debug mode with stat printing on. Interesting enough he said judging by the font, dev and how the games behave it's most likely an updated version of the record of loss war dc game. Stat wise he zoomed out the entire map and he totaled about 101,000 triangles per frame with 200,000 vertices per frame @ 60 fps. With extra filters on. Seems ps2 never slowed down. I'll post the screenshot later. Like I said your definitely over blowing this game up.