Quantcast

Page 187 of 194 FirstFirst ... 87137177183184185186187188189190191 ... LastLast
Results 2,791 to 2,805 of 2906

Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #2791
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    5,571
    Rep Power
    59

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Tiger View Post
    Lots of devs bitd and later in hindsight make those kinds of claims.

    One of the top guys who worked on Dark Savior said in an interview (with Gamefan?) that DS was the max performance possible from the Saturn.

    With the weather so utter crap here in Wales. I looked to try to track down the interview's with Climax . Here is one of them and also the EDGE feature with Ken where he said Tobal No2 makes the best use of PS Hardware



    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  2. #2792
    Master of Shinobi
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,176
    Rep Power
    31

    Default

    Regarding the PSX performance analyser, when Metal Gear Solid came out, Kojima jokingly said that although they never used the performance analyser, it would've said something like 115% hardware utilization (I forgot the exact number).

  3. #2793
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    5,571
    Rep Power
    59

    Default

    Not like Kojima-san to talk out of his Ass.
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  4. #2794
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    285
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Not like Kojima-san to talk out of his Ass.
    Yes, i dislike all the trash kojima says. But in this case iam inclined to believe him in fhis specific case.

    Metal gear solid had a slew of post process effects ranging from depth of field, motion blur, radial blur, environment mapped refraction, Gaussian blur and usually all of them on in one frame during cutscenes.

    All this on a machine from 1994 , let us not forget the dc never layered all those in one go despite being infinitely power compared to it. And pc didnt do the refractive effect till embossed environment bump mapping close to the 2000.

    So while hes a blowhard and mgs probably doesnt do more polys than tobal 2 it still pushes the psx to max in a different way.

  5. #2795
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    337
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    I was looking at the mechanics of the games in 1996 and Crash, Mario 64 and Tomb Raider launched trends, but speaking only of Crash and Mario 64, Crash used a level design that was very innovative and very copied throughout the fifth generation, Lilo and Stitch , Pepsiman, Donald Duck Goin Quake are '' Crash Bandicoot-Like ''.

    So, Super Mario 64, I could see that the scenarios on the Nintendo 64 are bigger than those on the PS1 due to some features of the N64 hardware, the memory and ironically the cartridge that reads up to 100x faster than the CD-rom.

    On PS1 there are many 3D platform games but they have a smaller scope than those seen in Banjo, Mario and Conker.

    Thinking about it I decided to look in the sixth generation for a game that reminded me of N64 games, I looked for Kao the Kangaroo and he uses Crash-style mechanics, I looked for Sonic and it has his own characteristics, that's when I found Evil Twin Cypriens chronicles PS2 / DC it's the closest thing to Banjo Kazooi and Conker in terms of scope.
    Last edited by SegaAMD; 02-21-2020 at 07:19 PM.

  6. #2796
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    5,571
    Rep Power
    59

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Yes, i dislike all the trash kojima says. But in this case iam inclined to believe him in fhis specific case..
    Don't get me wrong, I've always said that 2 of the PS games, I would have hated to see on the Saturn, would have been Vagrant Story and MGS Since they just looked on another level. I was quite impressed with Last Bronx motion blur and some of the Saturn games that used the VDP2 to fake environment mapping mind. But 115%? Just a little bit of kojima-san crap.

    The most impressive PS games I saw were Ridge Racer 4 ( A stunning technical achievement) and Vagrant Story. And to be fair to Ken, MGS was not out at the time of the Edge feature
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  7. #2797
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    285
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I've always said that 2 of the PS games, I would have hated to see on the Saturn, would have been Vagrant Story and MGS Since they just looked on another level. I was quite impressed with Last Bronx motion blur and some of the Saturn games that used the VDP2 to fake environment mapping mind. But 115%? Just a little bit of kojima-san crap.

    The most impressive PS games I saw were Ridge Racer 4 ( A stunning technical achievement) and Vagrant Story. And to be fair to Ken, MGS was not out at the time of the Edge feature
    Yeah of course. Percentage of use thing is bullshit. Devs use all available tools, technically it's always 100 percent. Tools can improves allowing more room for graphics.

    I am just saying polygons isnt always the defining thing of system power. With such limited fillrate iam surprise they were able to do depth of field, motion blur, radial blur, refraction while maintaining a good polygon count games like mgs.

  8. #2798
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingNameless One SegaDreamcast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    76
    Rep Power
    3

    Default

    I always thought Tekken 3 looked amazing on the PSX. Feel that arcade to home conversion anticipation is lost on new gamers.

  9. #2799
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,850
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    Since this is the last 1.5 months of me posting in this thread, I really gotta start working on my backlog.


    So I'm working on Ready 2 Rumble Boxing: Round 2 PS2 Vs. Dreamcast Full Comparison. Its gonna have fancy post-processed logos.






    So Cloofoofoo and SegaAMD, let me know what I should look for while doing the comparison. Also perhaps TA and Segata.

    Also Cloofoofoo I already found that framebuffer effect.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  10. #2800
    ESWAT Veteran Team Andromeda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    5,571
    Rep Power
    59

    Default

    I like for you to compare

    Dead Or Alive 2
    Maken X
    Rayman 2
    Alone in the Dark IV
    Code Veronica
    Panzer Dragoon Zwei is
    one of the best 3D shooting games available
    Presented for your pleasure

  11. #2801
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,850
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I like for you to compare

    Dead Or Alive 2
    Maken X
    Rayman 2
    Alone in the Dark IV
    Code Veronica
    I could do a couple of those. Also the problem with comparing Dead or Alive 2, is thats been done already a huge amount of times. Its probably the most compared PS2-Dreamcast multiplat.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  12. #2802
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    285
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    I like for you to compare

    Dead Or Alive 2
    Maken X
    Rayman 2
    Alone in the Dark IV
    Code Veronica
    Maken x should be a cool comparison. The character (third person) models arent that much higher than the first person models. The first person arms range from 700 tris to about 2200 tris. The full body rabge from 1000 to close to 3000 tris. Extracted those off the disc, was surprised to see how close it was.

    The ps2 cutscenes appear more dynamic but they are pre recorded and not real time odd enough while the dc cutscenes are all real time.

    Another game one could compare is roommania 203 ps2 vs dc. That would be interesting.

  13. #2803
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    337
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Evil twin Cypriens chronicles (N64 style like)
    Maken x
    Head Hunter
    Quake 3 arena
    Federation vs Zeon
    Le mans 24 hours
    Fyr fighters
    Gunbird 2
    Trizeal
    Silent scope
    psyvariar 2
    conflict zone
    Death Crimson ox
    Castle of shikigami
    Radirgy
    Chaos filed
    typing of Dead

  14. #2804
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,850
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Maken x should be a cool comparison. The character (third person) models arent that much higher than the first person models. The first person arms range from 700 tris to about 2200 tris. The full body rabge from 1000 to close to 3000 tris. Extracted those off the disc, was surprised to see how close it was.

    The ps2 cutscenes appear more dynamic but they are pre recorded and not real time odd enough while the dc cutscenes are all real time.

    Another game one could compare is roommania 203 ps2 vs dc. That would be interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    Evil twin Cypriens chronicles (N64 style like)
    Maken x
    Head Hunter
    Quake 3 arena
    Federation vs Zeon
    Le mans 24 hours
    Fyr fighters
    Gunbird 2
    Trizeal
    Silent scope
    psyvariar 2
    conflict zone
    Death Crimson ox
    Castle of shikigami
    Radirgy
    Chaos filed
    typing of Dead
    Guys I still gotta finish my first comparison, Ready 2 Rumble Boxing: Round 2. Its 66% done. Do you have any suggestions for what I should look for?
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  15. #2805
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    3,850
    Rep Power
    62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Andromeda View Post
    All I will say is games like Sonic Adv, Rally II getting pushed back, NEC having issues with the Power VR line, the DC launch should have been pushed back till Feb or March 1999. When SEGA had more titles read and more importantly 500,000 DC systems ready for the launch. That's to look over how SEGA GT and Sega Rally II needed to be so much more better and also use online head to head gameplay
    And also considering the Saturn had a small amount of life left in Japan.

    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    I'm sorry but it's not; 80-90k it's a standard game on PS1, see Tobal N1 and you'll find 120k, the fighting game Iron Blood claims to have 225k. they are to be congratulated for getting 3k polygons per frame as it is an early game.

    but I would like to measure PS1 games although it has a limit of 3k per scene at 30fps 2k at 60fps. I only know of a game that reaches 4k polygons per scene (MGS cutscene) the N64 makes from 1K to 7K per scene, but in contrast the frame rate drops to less than 20fps, which at the end much more the same.
    Sega Saturn has a limit of 2k quads per frame which generates a maximum of 60k, it seems little but if we convert to triangles it gives 2x, 120k, I think that only Sonic R can handle this count with a stable frame rate.
    I doubt 80,000-90,000 PPS is average, but to be fair I haven't looked at many PS1 games yet. This will be one of my side tasks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Well these are the models straight off the files and not tampered by things that could affect it like being use in a game and capturing it in vram like 3dxripper does.

    You might not like it but these are the real assets just like they were exported to game format by the devs. It doesn't get more direct than this and I DARE say your results with the ripper is wrong, period. The average main chracter model for the dreamcast is around 1,500 to 2,000. As a matter of fact alot of dc games made exclusively have main character models of 1000 to 1200 ( skies of arcadia, illbleed, the ring , tri colore crise and alot alot more). Its the exceptional games or games who focus more on characters than anything else that make characters 2500 tris and up. ( d2, carrier, toukon retsuden 4, blue stinger, seventh cross, spiderman 2000 and many more). Ove done alot of file extractions over the years.

    3d ripper is horribly glitch and does not reflect what the asssets held in geometry accurately, which is all i care about, not crying if the dreamcast figures are too low.

    What makes it even more obvious its wrong is how easy it is to extract dreamcast geometry assets from the files on the discs and do a simple check. You should seriously try it and stop relying on emulator abd simply use tools to dig through the discs and extract files.

    Also your relying on an old ass review as opposed to hacks made specifically to modify gamecode like physics and frame rate and camera fov? Theres just no way to get through to you so we will have to let it go.

    Btw 400 to 800 tris for the main focus character on ps1 isnt unheard of despite the tight polygon budget. Not only fighting game went this high.
    I will reply to this with future posts.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 1 guests)

  1. Team Andromeda

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •