Quantcast

Page 208 of 216 FirstFirst ... 108158198204205206207208209210211212 ... LastLast
Results 3,106 to 3,120 of 3226

Thread: PS2 vs Dreamcast Graphics

  1. #3106
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    389
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    So Not really polygon count but I think its pertinent information. I went back to f1 racing championship on the dreamcast and replaced what I thought was the bump map for the road and grass just to confirm the game uses bumpmapping . And yes it does, the road and grass became bick like. huh, I guess many games on the dc could be using bumpmapping but we wouldnt know at all because for some reason its not noticeable . Could have been cool to see on character models.

    Original:



    Changed the bump map to a more noticeable texture:


  2. #3107
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,080
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leynos View Post
    I'd be amazed if there are any PS2 games past 10 million. Gamecube or Xbox yeah. Gamecube theoretical max with textures and lighting was 12 million and I don't know if any game hit that. Maybe Rogue Squadron games and I think someone did those already. I don't want to go looking through every post but what is the average max you saw for PS2? 5-6 with only occasional games surpassing that and likely late PS2 games? Don't me wrong some PS2 games looked beyond the hardware like Silent Hill 3 or GOW2 but typically games looked well below Gamecube and Xbox best-looking games.
    Amen, very accurate. It seems the whole 6th gen was between 800,000 - 10 million PPS. It makes sense. Once you start hitting 250,000 polygons, thats approaching 7th gen.

    Also I feel the 6th gen should be split into 2 subgroups:

    early/mid 6th gen: Dreamcast, PS2
    late 6th gen: GameCube, OG Xbox

    I think there could've been another console released in 2002 that could've still been 6th gen. But once you hit 2003, thats when we would've started seeing consoles with 2 GHz processors, 256 MB RAM, sub-HD resolutions like 540p or 640p, 40 million PPS etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    ps2 average is in my opinion 4M (Dreamcast average is 1,7M) but there are games below 1M on ps2 the highest was 9M. famous ps2 games all have a low polygonal count, the explanation for this is that the games have physics, advanced lighting and in general have a very large map, so the large map is filled with spaced polygons generating a low count per frame.
    I haven't spent as much time with PS2 but 4 million PPS could be accurate. With Dreamcast its actually 1.2 million PPS, theres a huge amount of games that love 20,000 polygons at 60 FPS. The Dreamcast average could've eventually reached 1.6 million PPS if it survived the North American PS2 launch.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Also remember these games seem to use lod so the farthest should be pretty low and will not impact polygon count considerably unless u can get them ALL in your face.l, which is unrealistic as they are spaced out to prevent that. So even if you see all cars doesn't mean it will impact the scene count as much as you think.
    Just like Test Drive Le Mans.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  3. #3108
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,080
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Can't disagree with that. It's obvious they felt it wasn't worth the effort. Considering they did from the ground up work for the ps2 version.(video systems basically worked on all these f1 games)
    Theres actually something mind-blowing about how much they cared about F1 World Grand Prix on Dreamcast. I will soon post it.


    Quote Originally Posted by SegaAMD View Post
    based on this pics do you still believe textures are better in dreamcast version? to my eyes on ps2 is much better, low budget game by ps2 standards, but a typical dreamcast game.
    Well everyone in this thread definitely knows you aren't coming from a biased perspective.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Since R Racing evolution is a very pretty racing with its real time reflections on the cars and specular maps on the road in some areas. Doesnt work well with the ps2 emulator so I decided to extract using the gamecube emulator. Was suprising what I found, if you take away the fancy effects its pretty much running at a dreamcast-esque polygon count and it doesnt seem to be doing sim physics, more arcade like. I guess if you remove the reflections and replace it with static environment maps and simplify the lighting you got a dc version, the cars off the distance use lods. I guess looks are deceiving and how art direction is everything. Like I was saying the common game seems to be with in grasp.

    R Racing Evolution -2003(GameCube version):

    Monaco start line - 20,063 tris per frame x 60 fps = 1.2 mpps

    This means a lot to me. This game is my favourite example of what could be done on Dreamcast before approaching its limit. Also those effects you mentioned taking out were the same effects I've always thought would have to be taken out. The car map is simply too fancy. It would be a Dreamcast game with actual good roadside detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    You know I went back to check those ubisoft made ones and found that monoco grandprix, racing simulation 2 , f1 racing championship are all actually the same exact game released over and over in Europe. The extremely low polygon count comes from the fact the game heavily uses backface culling on everything and barely draws anything out of the frame so even if you pile up all the cars it wont matter. They probably did this to save fillrate because the grass and road actually use bumpmapping. Yup bumpmapping on the grass and road but its hard to see because the mipmap use destroys it as its very up close and vicious. kinda realized it when i played it on the tv then went to check on the emulator to confirm. One of the few games besides rayman 2 and tomb raider the last revelation to use bumpmapping heavily. In this game its like rayman , a tileable texture that makes more grain/detail.

    F1 racing championship (dreamcast version)
    Bumpmapping on the road and grass:


    The bumpmap texture itself:

    But it makes you wonder of all the things they could've upgraded, they chose bump-maps.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  4. #3109
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,080
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Yes you heard me right. F1 World Grand Prix II is a Dreamcast game with a god damn PlayStation logo in it. Sega should've started some lawsuits that would've taught Video System to actually put some effort in their Dreamcast ports.


    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  5. #3110
    The Future Is Yesterday Hedgehog-in-TrainingRaging in the Streets Leynos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    My Chair
    Posts
    4,835
    Rep Power
    59

    Default

    Lol damn. As someone who has zero interest in racing as a sport or the joke that is Nascar I never touched an F1 game. Only Nascar anything I played is Daytona and love those. Not a sims person. I just checked out 60 FPS gameplay of this on DC and it looks pretty solid visually. I like the touch of a helicopter over the track. Stuff like that used to feel pretty impressive.Very crisp looking game.

    Life!? ... What console is that on?



    [PSN] Segata-S //[Switch] FC-SW 3892 5228 2895 //[XBL]Dogi99


  6. #3111
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    389
    Rep Power
    8

    Game Gear

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Theres actually something mind-blowing about how much they cared about F1 World Grand Prix on Dreamcast. I will soon post it.


    Well everyone in this thread definitely knows you aren't coming from a biased perspective.


    This means a lot to me. This game is my favourite example of what could be done on Dreamcast before approaching its limit. Also those effects you mentioned taking out were the same effects I've always thought would have to be taken out. The car map is simply too fancy. It would be a Dreamcast game with actual good roadside detail.

    But it makes you wonder of all the things they could've upgraded, they chose bump-maps.
    To be fair Sega gt probably pushes more per frame but at half the frame rate. Both games seem to cull off screen similarly so I think it's a fair comparison. Sega gt true problem is aesthetic, it's boring to look at and the tracks are so badly designed they look worse than they are modeled. R racing evolution just blows it out the aesthetically.

    Well that makes it easy because it's just another pass with a tile able texture. But I think the graphics are upgraded more than that.

    It isn't the only car with PlayStation on it too lol.

    I was looking at resident evil 4 on the gc emulator. Like the PC version I can capture the whole scene unlike the PC version the detail is just much much more. Especially the trees. The PC version was like 65k for the scene x 30 fps which is like 1.9 mpps. The gc version was like 230k Tris for a similar scene x 30 fps( yes the gc version is also 30fps) = which is around 8 mpps. I don't think any ps2 can touch it at that polygon amount per frame. Nothing I tested came close.

  7. #3112
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,080
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    To be fair Sega gt probably pushes more per frame but at half the frame rate. Both games seem to cull off screen similarly so I think it's a fair comparison. Sega gt true problem is aesthetic, it's boring to look at and the tracks are so badly designed they look worse than they are modeled. R racing evolution just blows it out the aesthetically.
    I got Sega GT as running around 500,000 PPS. Thats considering the fact the game has PS1 lighting. I really think the game is a joke, it seems like Sega often put WOW Entertainment on projects they aren't experienced at. They should've got Genki to make Sega GT.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  8. #3113
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    389
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    I got Sega GT as running around 500,000 PPS. Thats considering the fact the game has PS1 lighting. I really think the game is a joke, it seems like Sega often put WOW Entertainment on projects they aren't experienced at. They should've got Genki to make Sega GT.
    That's weird. For replays the game does 900k to 1.10 mpps even with nulldc broken count. Means around 33k Tris per frame@ 30 fps . Twice r racing evo.

    I gotta disagree with you, the lighting in the night stages is just as good as Tokyo Xtreme racer. Each lampost has a light source. The game lacks artistic.touch which is strange since Sega wow can make very striking looking games.

  9. #3114
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,080
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    That's weird. For replays the game does 900k to 1.10 mpps even with nulldc broken count. Means around 33k Tris per frame@ 30 fps . Twice r racing evo.

    I gotta disagree with you, the lighting in the night stages is just as good as Tokyo Xtreme racer. Each lampost has a light source. The game lacks artistic.touch which is strange since Sega wow can make very striking looking games.
    Yes during replays for some reason its a lot higher. Also I meant to say shadows not lighting, if you look at the shadows in the Italy race they barely exist. Though it seems with their experience with Sega GT on Dreamcast, WOW Entertainment made Sega GT on OG Xbox a much better game.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  10. #3115
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,080
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    So June 20th will be my last day in this thread for a couple years.

    I got a big post coming up, then I will look at F1 Championship Season 2000 and ESPN International Track & Field, then finally a post on Ephemeral Fantasia. These posts will be during the next 5 days.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  11. #3116
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,080
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Also to give Cloofoofoo a heads up, PCSX2 1.6 was released and I've had a bit of fun playing it.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  12. #3117
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    389
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Also to give Cloofoofoo a heads up, PCSX2 1.6 was released and I've had a bit of fun playing it.
    How is it? Any improvement to the tools we use for our counts?

    Sorry to hear you're going away. Best of luck in what you're doing.

    Ephemeral Fantasia IAM looking forward to.

  13. #3118
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    389
    Rep Power
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yharnamresident View Post
    Yes during replays for some reason its a lot higher. Also I meant to say shadows not lighting, if you look at the shadows in the Italy race they barely exist. Though it seems with their experience with Sega GT on Dreamcast, WOW Entertainment made Sega GT on OG Xbox a much better game.
    If you want a game who uses the volume modifier featured of the Dreamcast I recommend speed devil. Just run the tracks in night mode and what it use volume modifiers for headlight for each cars. Shame no other games used it like that.

  14. #3119
    Raging in the Streets Yharnamresident's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    4,080
    Rep Power
    65

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    How is it? Any improvement to the tools we use for our counts?
    I didn't even bother to look, emulators nowadays don't care about anything like that. I just plan to use it for screenshots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    Sorry to hear you're going away. Best of luck in what you're doing.
    Yes its been a fun past 9 months but I gotta start getting ready to move and start working on projects not related to games. But this just means I gotta go 110% effort during the next month.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    If you want a game who uses the volume modifier featured of the Dreamcast I recommend speed devil. Just run the tracks in night mode and what it use volume modifiers for headlight for each cars. Shame no other games used it like that.
    I love Speed Devils but no one can figure out how to get it working in NullDC. It works in Chankast but I can't get polycounts out of Chankast.
    Certified F-Zero GX fanboy

  15. #3120
    Hedgehog-in-Training Hedgehog-in-TrainingRoad Rasher
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    410
    Rep Power
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloofoofoo View Post
    I was looking at resident evil 4 on the gc emulator. Like the PC version I can capture the whole scene unlike the PC version the detail is just much much more. Especially the trees. The PC version was like 65k for the scene x 30 fps which is like 1.9 mpps. The gc version was like 230k Tris for a similar scene x 30 fps( yes the gc version is also 30fps) = which is around 8 mpps. I don't think any ps2 can touch it at that polygon amount per frame. Nothing I tested came close.
    see lord of the ring third age, need for speed hot porsuit 2, metal arms glitch, spy hunter, all in first scene and first battle a I found 165 to 333k on Dolphin even if the real numbers are lower they are still high polygonal count per frame.
    I thought the re4 numbers were wrong and in the end, they were right at 230k per frame, which is a very high number.

    I honestly don't think it's an achievement, because other factors such as resolution, the resolution of first Jak game is 640x448, RE4 resolution GCN version is also 640x448 and drop to 512x448 in some scenes. however the useful resolution that is rendered is 640x278 and 512x278 due ''letterbox'', this puts RE4 in 30% fewer pixels than jak 1 when we assume the 640x448 resolution which is actually 640x278, but if we take the lowest numbers, which is the 512x448 resolution that actually is 512x278 since the black stripes aren't render, we have that jak 1 makes 60% more pixels, in short there is a higher rate of polygons / pixels/ unique colors. not wanting to transform here into a ps2 x gcn






Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •